EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 4, 2009 Tomorrow's the day. At 4:30am. There's one of the tournament's big problems. How do you expect to draw excitement when you start in the middle of the night with the tournament's least competitive game? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2009 Let me touch on Pool A a moment. Tomorrow morning sees China vs. Japan, Friday is Korea vs. Taiwan. I think the real excitement of the first round is seeing if any of these lesser teams can pull off upsets. Last year Panama came within a hair of toppling Cuba. China really doesn't have a prayer in hell. Taiwan though has some real talent, and could steal a win. Pools are double elimination bracket. Here's the silliest part of the tournament. The top two teams of each Pool advance. However, they are still going to play a final game to determine a pool winner. Now, given that tournament games are neutral site, how hard are you going to play in a game that merely determines seeding? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Czech please! Report post Posted March 5, 2009 Nobody should be playing hard in the first place. This is foolish. Abolish it. Bold contention: for Americans, international play has been irrelevant since the fall of the USSR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2009 I don't think this tournament is tremendously important, but that doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed for its own sake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Czech please! Report post Posted March 5, 2009 It's inferior baseball that postpones real baseball and takes players out of training. Its intrinsic value is low. I love baseball, but more isn't always better. I love fish. Doesn't mean I like bad fish, and I really get mad when bad fish is marketed as good fish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brett Favre 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2009 It's not inferior baseball when half the teams are all-star teams. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted March 5, 2009 Czech:World Baseball Classic::Damaramu:ESPN. Seriously guy, if you don't like it, don't watch it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
geniusMoment 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2009 Honestly, there is either no point to it, or it's very bad for individual baseball teams. Those are the 2 options as: 1.) Players treat it like Spring Training (just getting their bodies in shape, pitchers working on pitches, throwing with no stress or 2.) Players actually play at a higher lever (meaning pitchers put more stress on their arms, players run the bases harder etc..) In option 1 playing the whole thing is bullshit, as no one is playing hard. In option 2 you really could hurt teams as players could very well end up hurting themselves in games that are played with a different level of intensity then normal spring training games. If there is another option I'd be open to it, but I don't see any. Also, the fact that teams can't force players not to participate is bullshit, if I owned a team and one of my stars got hurt in this my first call would be to my lawyer, whose first call would be to Bud Selig. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2009 China's been flashing some good glovework so far. Only down 3-0 after four innings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2009 Apparently China's first major international win was 2008. That would be nice if baseball did not already have a World Cup every two years. They went 2-5 in 1998, 1-6 in 2003 and 3-5 in 2005. Baseball really has international competitions all the time. It's just here where MLBers compete. What I don't get is that no one raises a fuss about AAA players (who would have the same kind of conditioning/readiness issues), or when MLB players go on postseason exhibition tours or play in the Caribbean World Series. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2009 4-0 yet after eight, so no mercy rule. It's interesting to see some of the subtle differences between a strong fundamental team and one that is not as experienced. China gave up a run on a balk earlier in the game, and their catcher has made a couple of ill-advised throws. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Czech please! Report post Posted March 5, 2009 Well, I just got compared to Damaramu, who is coming off one of his worse showings in recent memory, so logically, I should tuck my tail 'twixt my legs and hide from this thread. Of course, I'm a fucking idiot, so I'm coming back to pester you even more, on the heels of this article from USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/20...wbc-cover_N.htm Pertinent excerpts: nearly four out of every five pitchers recorded a higher ERA in 2006 than in the previous year (among the 59 who pitched at least 20 innings each year). And more than one in three spent time on the disabled list in '06. ERAs went up 5.6% throughout MLB in 2006, but the increase was significantly higher among WBC pitchers: 18.4%. And while every trip to the disabled list obviously wasn't related to the tournament, 14 WBC pitchers landed on the DL with arm or muscle injuries in April and May. "Do I have an opinion? Boy, the potential for me to get into trouble with the answer to that question is immense," Ken Williams, Chicago White Sox senior vice president/general manager, said before spring training. Boldface supplied. While I've been known to make a recereational sport out of bashing Kenny Williams, he's absolutely right that the Bud Selig analingus society has been out in full force, comparing this to the Olympics and even going so far as to conflate it with military service. Of course, to bring me back down to earth and remind me that I'm citing a USA Today piece, they had to go and say that Bartolo Colon had a 5.11 ERA and disabled list stint in '06 due to an "inflammed shoulder." At first I figured they must've hired Mole as a copy editor, but I didn't see the World Baseball Classic described as "defiantly a bad idea," so I'll wait on that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2009 http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/20...wbc-cover_N.htm Pertinent excerpts: nearly four out of every five pitchers recorded a higher ERA in 2006 than in the previous year (among the 59 who pitched at least 20 innings each year). And more than one in three spent time on the disabled list in '06. ERAs went up 5.6% throughout MLB in 2006, but the increase was significantly higher among WBC pitchers: 18.4%. And while every trip to the disabled list obviously wasn't related to the tournament, 14 WBC pitchers landed on the DL with arm or muscle injuries in April and May. This is all interesting, but you'd have to grab another test group of pitchers who didn't go the WBC for comparison's sake. Pitchers get hurt all the time and ERAs jump all over the board. I'm not saying that attaching this to the WBC is wrong, but it's not overly convincing either. Correlation does not necessarily indicate causation. For the record, I'm not a WBC guy. I don't care who wins and there's a slim chance that I watch more than a game or two. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HarleyQuinn 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2009 I'm also curious to see their IP stats from season to season... If they pitched say 20-30 more innings (essentially 3-4 more starts at 7 IP per) more than the prior season, then it would stand to reason that their ERA could jump during that time frame with just 2 bad starts. Also if you're including injured players, a guy who throws 40 IP with a higher ERA is vastly different from a guy who throws 180 IP with a higher ERA due to sample size. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smues Report post Posted March 5, 2009 I suppose China only losing by 4 isn't too shabby, when you consider the spread was Japan -11. Yes, an 11 run spread. Tonight it's Korea vs. Chinese Taipei Taiwan at 12:30 am Alaskan time. I can't wait for Saturday and games I can actually watch live and not have to Tivo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Czech please! Report post Posted March 5, 2009 I'm not convinced that "correlation=/=causation" is the card to play here. It's hardly a reach to say that overuse in early months is going to make ERAs rise and injuries occur. Enough baseball professionals seem to agree that not only is this a bad idea, but it's hard to come right out and say it's a bad idea because this is Bud's baby. I've seen nothing that indicates the World Baseball Classic has made baseball better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2009 Tep ten pitchers, sorted by ERA, in 2007. ERA Peavy-SDP 2.54 Lackey-LAA 3.01 Webb-ARI 3.01 Penny-LAD 3.03 Carmona-CLE 3.06 Haren-OAK 3.07 Smoltz-ATL 3.11 Young-SDP 3.12 Bedard-BAL 3.16 Oswalt-HOU 3.18 All ten of these pitchers saw their ERA rise last year and all ten of them pitched less innings. I think seven of them spent time on the DL. Can we now say that being a top ten pitcher causes you to get hurt, too? I don't disagree with your larger point, Czech, but the numbers you presented are very inconclusive. If you make up a team of the league's best players many of them will post inferior numbers the following season simply due to regression. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted March 5, 2009 I was posting a longer response to this earlier, but got interrupted and so my post got wiped out. Anyways, I was pointing out that the list isn't particularly conclusive as well, particularly when you look at the overall list: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/20...wbc-notch_N.htm USA Today likes to emphasize that four of five pitchers saw their ERAs rise, but only 26 out of the 59 who pitched saw a significant increase in ERA (meaning more than one point). You could attribute a lot of these guys, especially older and/or fat fucks like Bartolo Colon, to just simple age regression rather than overuse in the WBC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2009 There's one big problem with the ERA comparisons. The pitchers chosen for a national team would usually be the ones who had exceptional prior seasons, and thus likely to regress in the first place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HarleyQuinn 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2009 The 1st thing that jumped out at me was the IP increase several guys saw in 2006... I'd say that more IP = greater chance for higher ERA. Tony Armas Jr: Over 150 Miguel Batista: Over 200 Erik Bedard: Over 195 Kelvim Escobar: Over 185 Jeff Francis: Over 195 Byung-Hyun Kim: Over 150 Francisco Liriano: Over 120 Odalis Perez: Over 125 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2009 I made it awake for Taiwan/Korea. This is more convenient than a Yankees/Red Sox playoff game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2009 It looks like Korea is going to cruise to victory here. This thing really cranks up with a full slate tonight into tomorrow. 10:30pm there'll be Taiwan vs. China in an elimination game. I'd expect the ratings for that to be pretty poor. Japan vs. Korea at 5am, winner of that earns a second round berth. Both those games on ESPN2. Then we have pools C and D kicking off with their opening matchups. 11am (ESPN2), Netherlands vs. Dominican Republic 2pm (ESPN), Canada vs. United States 5pm (ESPN), Panama vs. Puerto Rico 8pm (MLB Network), Italy vs. Venezuela Panama and Canada are easily good enough to pull off upsets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2009 One more quick comment. It's fun to hear the Tokyo Dome praised as a baseball venue when it most closely resembles Tropicana Field. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 Joe Bisenius is on Team USA's roster. If that isn't the tournament's defining WTF choice, I don't know what is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 Is there anyone I'll recognize tomorrow? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 Is there anyone I'll recognize tomorrow? Rhetorical question? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 Joe Bisenius is on Team USA's roster. If that isn't the tournament's defining WTF choice, I don't know what is. I guess he pitched an inning for them in one of their tune up games but isn't actually on the roster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 Joe Bisenius is on Team USA's roster. If that isn't the tournament's defining WTF choice, I don't know what is. I guess he pitched an inning for them in one of their tune up games but isn't actually on the roster. Thank god for that. Bisenius can't even win a spot on Lehigh Valley's roster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 Japan is beating Korea 11-2 in the fifth inning. There hasn't been a competitive game yet in this pool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2009 Anyone else checking out Netherlands/DR on ESPN2? Sidney Ponson is pitching for the Dutch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
