theone 0 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 The big surprised that turned out to be the Goldberg turn was supposed to be the Mandalay Entertainment(?) buying WCW for $600m. It was actually Mandalay Sports Entertainment which was a division of ME, but this is correct. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Green 0 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 The big surprised that turned out to be the Goldberg turn was supposed to be the Mandalay Entertainment(?) buying WCW for $600m. It was actually Mandalay Sports Entertainment which was a division of ME, but this is correct. Isn't it sad that Vince was able to buy WCW less than a year later for only $4m? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theone 0 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 The big surprised that turned out to be the Goldberg turn was supposed to be the Mandalay Entertainment(?) buying WCW for $600m. It was actually Mandalay Sports Entertainment which was a division of ME, but this is correct. Isn't it sad that Vince was able to buy WCW less than a year later for only $4m? Someone got some serious money under the table for that whole ordeal... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheech Tremendous 0 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 The big surprised that turned out to be the Goldberg turn was supposed to be the Mandalay Entertainment(?) buying WCW for $600m. It was actually Mandalay Sports Entertainment which was a division of ME, but this is correct. Isn't it sad that Vince was able to buy WCW less than a year later for only $4m? Someone got some serious money under the table for that whole ordeal... You're comparing apples and oranges. Mandalay would have purchased the entire company, including talent contracts, television rights, the tape library and everything else that goes into running a wrestling promotion. Jamie Kellner killed that whole deal when he canceled WCW programming. Vince just scooped up the intellectual property and cherry-picked the few talents he wanted. He still got a hell of deal, but it's not really a comparable purchase. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haws bah gawd 0 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 The big surprised that turned out to be the Goldberg turn was supposed to be the Mandalay Entertainment(?) buying WCW for $600m. It was actually Mandalay Sports Entertainment which was a division of ME, but this is correct. Isn't it sad that Vince was able to buy WCW less than a year later for only $4m? Someone got some serious money under the table for that whole ordeal... You're comparing apples and oranges. Mandalay would have purchased the entire company, including talent contracts, television rights, the tape library and everything else that goes into running a wrestling promotion. Jamie Kellner killed that whole deal when he canceled WCW programming. Vince just scooped up the intellectual property and cherry-picked the few talents he wanted. He still got a hell of deal, but it's not really a comparable purchase. The tape library alone was more than worth what Vince put into the company. Vince picked-up a small amount of talent to add to his roster, and the rest is history. Vince got the bargain of a lifetime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Green 0 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 The big surprised that turned out to be the Goldberg turn was supposed to be the Mandalay Entertainment(?) buying WCW for $600m. It was actually Mandalay Sports Entertainment which was a division of ME, but this is correct. Isn't it sad that Vince was able to buy WCW less than a year later for only $4m? Someone got some serious money under the table for that whole ordeal... You're comparing apples and oranges. Mandalay would have purchased the entire company, including talent contracts, television rights, the tape library and everything else that goes into running a wrestling promotion. Jamie Kellner killed that whole deal when he canceled WCW programming. Vince just scooped up the intellectual property and cherry-picked the few talents he wanted. He still got a hell of deal, but it's not really a comparable purchase. Vince still got an incredible bargain. Even if he had picked up the entire roster, I don't see the total cost of WCW coming near $50m, much less $500m. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theone 0 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 The big surprised that turned out to be the Goldberg turn was supposed to be the Mandalay Entertainment(?) buying WCW for $600m. It was actually Mandalay Sports Entertainment which was a division of ME, but this is correct. Isn't it sad that Vince was able to buy WCW less than a year later for only $4m? Someone got some serious money under the table for that whole ordeal... You're comparing apples and oranges. Mandalay would have purchased the entire company, including talent contracts, television rights, the tape library and everything else that goes into running a wrestling promotion. Jamie Kellner killed that whole deal when he canceled WCW programming. Vince just scooped up the intellectual property and cherry-picked the few talents he wanted. He still got a hell of deal, but it's not really a comparable purchase. The tape library ALONE was worth way more than what McMahon paid for the company. Not even in a fucking firesale should it have sold for nearly as low as it did. When you consider some of the talent he scooped up as well that didn't elect to sit at home on their asses, it's obvious that some shady shit went down. If you can't see that, open your eyes. Everyone I've spoken with who was involved with WCW at the end, including my uncle all think the same thing as well. Someone at AOL Time Warner got paid off...most likely Siegel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Green 0 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 The big surprised that turned out to be the Goldberg turn was supposed to be the Mandalay Entertainment(?) buying WCW for $600m. It was actually Mandalay Sports Entertainment which was a division of ME, but this is correct. Isn't it sad that Vince was able to buy WCW less than a year later for only $4m? Someone got some serious money under the table for that whole ordeal... You're comparing apples and oranges. Mandalay would have purchased the entire company, including talent contracts, television rights, the tape library and everything else that goes into running a wrestling promotion. Jamie Kellner killed that whole deal when he canceled WCW programming. Vince just scooped up the intellectual property and cherry-picked the few talents he wanted. He still got a hell of deal, but it's not really a comparable purchase. The tape library ALONE was worth way more than what McMahon paid for the company. Not even in a fucking firesale should it have sold for nearly as low as it did. When you consider some of the talent he scooped up as well that didn't elect to sit at home on their asses, it's obvious that some shady shit went down. If you can't see that, open your eyes. Everyone I've spoken with who was involved with WCW at the end, including my uncle all think the same thing as well. Someone at AOL Time Warner got paid off...most likely Siegel. It's plausible though that AOL Time Warner just wanted WCW off the books in the worst way. Keep in mind that Fusient had pretty much bought WCW until Jamie Kellner canceled TV and Vince swooped in at the 11th hour. There was hardly enough time between Fusient pulling out and Vince buying for there to had been any shading dealings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 I'll just and copy and paste my original post: When you consider some of the talent he scooped up as well that didn't elect to sit at home on their asses, it's obvious that some shady shit went down. If you can't see that, open your eyes. Everyone I've spoken with who was involved with WCW at the end, including my uncle all think the same thing as well. Someone at AOL Time Warner got paid off...most likely Siegel. The WWF executive who initiated dialog with AOL TW about purchasing WCW was Stu Snyder and wouldn't you know that he and Brad Siegel were tight, having come up in the business world together. WOL - WWF buys WCW A very interesting and informative edition of WOL that covers the purchase that I've actually been listening to it today. It includes a recap of the press conference that Linda McMahon and, I believe, Snyder, held in regard to the purchase and details exactly what WWF got and it was a bit more than just some contracts and intellectual rights. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Obi Chris Kenobi 0 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 The big surprised that turned out to be the Goldberg turn was supposed to be the Mandalay Entertainment(?) buying WCW for $600m. It was actually Mandalay Sports Entertainment which was a division of ME, but this is correct. Isn't it sad that Vince was able to buy WCW less than a year later for only $4m? Someone got some serious money under the table for that whole ordeal... You're comparing apples and oranges. Mandalay would have purchased the entire company, including talent contracts, television rights, the tape library and everything else that goes into running a wrestling promotion. Jamie Kellner killed that whole deal when he canceled WCW programming. Vince just scooped up the intellectual property and cherry-picked the few talents he wanted. He still got a hell of deal, but it's not really a comparable purchase. The tape library ALONE was worth way more than what McMahon paid for the company. Not even in a fucking firesale should it have sold for nearly as low as it did. When you consider some of the talent he scooped up as well that didn't elect to sit at home on their asses, it's obvious that some shady shit went down. If you can't see that, open your eyes. Everyone I've spoken with who was involved with WCW at the end, including my uncle all think the same thing as well. Someone at AOL Time Warner got paid off...most likely Siegel. It's plausible though that AOL Time Warner just wanted WCW off the books in the worst way. Keep in mind that Fusient had pretty much bought WCW until Jamie Kellner canceled TV and Vince swooped in at the 11th hour. There was hardly enough time between Fusient pulling out and Vince buying for there to had been any shading dealings. Maybe Kellner canceling the TV was the Shady Dealing that stopped the deal and allowed Vince to swoop? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dobbs 3K 0 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 What was the exact reason for AOL Time Warner canceling the WCW shows anyway? I know supposedly they wanted to get away from the "low rent" appeal of wrestling (and anyone tuning into WCW at that point probably found the product pretty embarrassing), but Nitro was still getting decent ratings compared to their other programming, wasn't it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theone 0 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 I'll just and copy and paste my original post: When you consider some of the talent he scooped up as well that didn't elect to sit at home on their asses, it's obvious that some shady shit went down. If you can't see that, open your eyes. Everyone I've spoken with who was involved with WCW at the end, including my uncle all think the same thing as well. Someone at AOL Time Warner got paid off...most likely Siegel. The WWF executive who initiated dialog with AOL TW about purchasing WCW was Stu Snyder and wouldn't you know that he and Brad Siegel were tight, having come up in the business world together. WOL - WWF buys WCW A very interesting and informative edition of WOL that covers the purchase that I've actually been listening to it today. It includes a recap of the press conference that Linda McMahon and, I believe, Snyder, held in regard to the purchase and details exactly what WWF got and it was a bit more than just some contracts and intellectual rights. I never knew this, but it seems to go further towards supporting the theory out there that Siegel got paid off IMO.. I'm going to download that and take a listen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 What was the exact reason for AOL Time Warner canceling the WCW shows anyway? I know supposedly they wanted to get away from the "low rent" appeal of wrestling (and anyone tuning into WCW at that point probably found the product pretty embarrassing), but Nitro was still getting decent ratings compared to their other programming, wasn't it? Nitro got decent ratings wrestling shows don't generate the ad revenue that equal, or even lesser, rated shows do, because of the negative stigma that wrestling and wrestling fans have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theone 0 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 What was the exact reason for AOL Time Warner canceling the WCW shows anyway? I know supposedly they wanted to get away from the "low rent" appeal of wrestling (and anyone tuning into WCW at that point probably found the product pretty embarrassing), but Nitro was still getting decent ratings compared to their other programming, wasn't it? Nitro got decent ratings wrestling shows don't generate the ad revenue that equal, or even lesser, rated shows do, because of the negative stigma that wrestling and wrestling fans have. Even in 2001, wasn't Nitro TNTs highest rated show? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Green 0 Report post Posted March 12, 2009 What was the exact reason for AOL Time Warner canceling the WCW shows anyway? I know supposedly they wanted to get away from the "low rent" appeal of wrestling (and anyone tuning into WCW at that point probably found the product pretty embarrassing), but Nitro was still getting decent ratings compared to their other programming, wasn't it? Nitro got decent ratings wrestling shows don't generate the ad revenue that equal, or even lesser, rated shows do, because of the negative stigma that wrestling and wrestling fans have. Even in 2001, wasn't Nitro TNTs highest rated show? Ratings really don't matter if you aren't getting ad revenue to match. If a show has low ratings but high ad revenue (see St. Elsewhere), it'll stay on over a show with high ratings but low revenue. Ratings only matter if they correlate with ad revenue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smues Report post Posted March 12, 2009 It's also a lot more expensive to film a live episode of Nitro then to pay for the rights to air Law & Order. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corey_Lazarus 0 Report post Posted March 13, 2009 And even a poor episode of Law & Order is better than the bulk of '99/'00 WCW. I don't say '01 because they WERE turning the company around, at least in terms of the quality of the shows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haws bah gawd 0 Report post Posted March 13, 2009 What was the exact reason for AOL Time Warner canceling the WCW shows anyway? I know supposedly they wanted to get away from the "low rent" appeal of wrestling (and anyone tuning into WCW at that point probably found the product pretty embarrassing), but Nitro was still getting decent ratings compared to their other programming, wasn't it? Nitro got decent ratings wrestling shows don't generate the ad revenue that equal, or even lesser, rated shows do, because of the negative stigma that wrestling and wrestling fans have. Even in 2001, wasn't Nitro TNTs highest rated show? Ratings really don't matter if you aren't getting ad revenue to match. If a show has low ratings but high ad revenue (see St. Elsewhere), it'll stay on over a show with high ratings but low revenue. Ratings only matter if they correlate with ad revenue. I seem to remember one of the higher-ups at Turner saying something to the effect of "I don't want that redneck shit on my channel". I could be wrong though. From late 2000, until the cancellation of WCW programming, I too will say the quality of the shows was drastically improving. The introduction of the Cruiserweight Tag division definitely helped liven things up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Green 0 Report post Posted March 13, 2009 What was the exact reason for AOL Time Warner canceling the WCW shows anyway? I know supposedly they wanted to get away from the "low rent" appeal of wrestling (and anyone tuning into WCW at that point probably found the product pretty embarrassing), but Nitro was still getting decent ratings compared to their other programming, wasn't it? Nitro got decent ratings wrestling shows don't generate the ad revenue that equal, or even lesser, rated shows do, because of the negative stigma that wrestling and wrestling fans have. Even in 2001, wasn't Nitro TNTs highest rated show? Ratings really don't matter if you aren't getting ad revenue to match. If a show has low ratings but high ad revenue (see St. Elsewhere), it'll stay on over a show with high ratings but low revenue. Ratings only matter if they correlate with ad revenue. I seem to remember one of the higher-ups at Turner saying something to the effect of "I don't want that redneck shit on my channel". I could be wrong though. From late 2000, until the cancellation of WCW programming, I too will say the quality of the shows was drastically improving. The introduction of the Cruiserweight Tag division definitely helped liven things up. I don't know if AOL Time Warner canceled WCW because of the redneck stigma around wrestling. TNT DID start broadcasting NASCAR in 2001 so if they were concerned about a redneck image, having NASCAR on probably wasn't the best move. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dobbs 3K 0 Report post Posted March 13, 2009 I bet NASCAR pulled in a ton more ad revenue than WCW, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diamonddust 0 Report post Posted March 13, 2009 I bet NASCAR pulled in a ton more ad revenue than WCW, though. Yeah... and people in the Turner kingdom wanted wrestling off the air long before Time Warner came aboard. Turner himself kept it on the air because wrestling helped TBS grow in its early years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Green 0 Report post Posted March 13, 2009 I bet NASCAR pulled in a ton more ad revenue than WCW, though. Well yeah, I was just refuting the whole "wrestling was canceled for being rednecky" notion. NASCAR is a sponsor magnet so it probably pulls in a ton of money for whatever networks have it. Anyway back to the topic at hand, could WCW had eventually found TV? I could see USA Network being willing to take WCW on, especially since the WWF left USA for more money and not because of USA wanting them gone. It seems like Bischoff and Fusient threw their hands up way too quickly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dobbs 3K 0 Report post Posted March 13, 2009 I'd have to believe they could have. Back in 2000/2001, wrestling was still considered a somewhat popular commodity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed Wood Caulfield 0 Report post Posted March 13, 2009 Anyway back to the topic at hand, could WCW had eventually found TV? I could see USA Network being willing to take WCW on, especially since the WWF left USA for more money and not because of USA wanting them gone. It seems like Bischoff and Fusient threw their hands up way too quickly. I read in the Death Of WCW book that USA executives hated wrestling and weren't really interested in having it on the network again. Bischoff did go to Fox, but Fox declined. And I think that the popularity of professional wrestling started to decline in the fall of 2000. The Austin heel turn put the final nail in the coffin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunter's Torn Quad 0 Report post Posted March 13, 2009 If a major network wanted wrestling, and it would had to have been a major network, Bischoff would have gotten the deal done. Bischoff was trying his best to make it work, and the idea he and Fusient gave up too easily is completely laughable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CookieMueller 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2009 I read this on Wikipedia. Not completely reliable, I know, but I figure someone wouldn't just pull this out of nowhere... due to the terms of a settlement, WWF had a right to bid on WCW's properties, should they ever be up for liquidation What was this about? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KingPK 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2009 According to Death of WCW it was part of the settlement from when the WWF sued WCW when Hall and Nash jumped. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CookieMueller 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2009 That's an interesting thing to put in that settlement. At the time WCW was owned by one of the wealthiest men in America and regularly beating WWF in the ratings. Great foresight by Vince and/or his lawyers to stick that in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enigma 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2009 Yep, I remember that. If I recall correctly, Vince came close to buying the company in October 2000. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scroby 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2009 What was the exact reason for AOL Time Warner canceling the WCW shows anyway? I know supposedly they wanted to get away from the "low rent" appeal of wrestling (and anyone tuning into WCW at that point probably found the product pretty embarrassing), but Nitro was still getting decent ratings compared to their other programming, wasn't it? If I remember correctly from Bischoff's book, AOL Time Warner just didn't want wrestling on their programing. They wanted to take TNT and TBS in a different direction, TNT being more drama and TBS being more comedy and really didn't see Pro Wrestling as apart of that direction but Ted Turner (who still had a large share of the networks) wouldn't let them pull the plug. So in return, what AOL Time Warner started to do was prevent WCW and Bischoff from doing certain things that could have helped WCW and instead tried to make WCW look lame when it came to Pro Wrestling. Bischoff supposedly had all of these ideas for WCW but he had to take them all to higher ups first and the higher ups would deny his ideas or try to change them to be kiddie friendly, even though AOL Time Warner was trying to make TNT more adult drama friendly. Then once Turner actually lost a majority of the power he had with his shares, AOL Time Warner completely pulled the plug and started bidding WCW out to whoever, but at that time Bischoff was so burned out with all the fighting and politics he had already taken another "vacation". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
