More Moore Bashing

[Stephen Joseph 0]

As if I didn't have problems with truth in F911, here's something more.

 

I don't know the leanings of the Naples Daily...don't care. What would you have done. I've got no respect for Moore, if I had any left.

 

Source: http://www.naplesnews.com/npdn/florida/art...2985640,00.html

 

Text

 

Sarasota principal defends Bush from "Fahrenheit 9/11" portrayal

By Associated Press

June 24, 2004

 

SARASOTA — Michael Moore's film "Fahrenheit 9/11" criticizes President Bush for listening to Sarasota second-graders read a story for nearly seven minutes after learning the nation was under attack on Sept. 11, 2001.

 

But Gwendolyn Tose'-Rigell, the principal at Emma E. Booker Elementary School, says Bush handled himself properly.

 

"I don't think anyone could have handled it better," Tose'-Rigell told the Sarasota Herald-Tribune in a story published Wednesday. "What would it have served if he had jumped out of his chair and ran out of the room?"

 

"Fahrenheit 9/11," which won the top honor at last month's Cannes Film Festival, portrays the White House as asleep at the wheel before the Sept. 11 attacks. Moore accuses Bush of fanning fears of future terrorism to win public support for the Iraq war.

 

Bush told the federal 9/11 Commission, which released its report last week, that he remained in the classroom because he felt it was "important to project strength and calm until he could better understand what was happening." Moore says Bush failed to take charge.

 

Tose'-Rigell, who was at Bush's side, did not hear what White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card whispered when he squeezed past her to tell the president of the attacks, but "I knew it was something serious."

 

"The president bit his lip and clenched his jaw," she said. "I didn't know what happened, whether it was something with his wife or children or something with the nation. I remember praying that God would watch over our school and protect our children."

 

She said the video doesn't convey all that was going on in the classroom, but Bush's presence had a calming effect and "helped us get through a very difficult day."

 

Tose'-Rigell said she plans to publish her account of the morning of Sept. 11 from pages she wrote in her journal following the attack. The principal said she didn't vote for Bush. "But that day I would have voted for him."

[Guest MikeSC]

I was about to post this myself. It was the point I was making a few days ago. Bush did the right thing in not panicking the kids.

 

Hell, the Republicans should hold the Democrats to the fire and, since so many of them (not least of which is Terry McAuliffe) think Moore is grand --- corner them on whether they AGREE with what he's saying or not. Force them to either bash Moore --- or admit that they agree with psychotic sentiments.

 

BTW, found this interesting. From NRO.com

Meanwhile, Moore himself, who has often claimed that he had no political motive in making the film, seems to be changing his position. In May, when he spoke to reporters after winning the Palme d'Or at the Cannes Film Festival, Moore said, "I did not set out to make a political film.... The art of this, the cinema, comes before the politics." Last night, however, speaking to a crowd gathered on the sidewalk outside the Uptown Theatre after the showing, Moore appeared to have another message. "We're all in the same boat and we all have a job to do," he told fans. "And if we do it, this country will be back in the hands of the majority."

Wow, it IS a political film? I'm shocked, Mikey, shocked.

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

But I was told at this board by some that Bush should have jumped up, yelled "HERE I COME TO SAVE THE DAY," and rushed outside to start up his super-secret Terrorist B Gone rocket.

 

I heard on the radio that Mikey said during a performance in England that if there were any black people on those 9/11 planes, the outcome would have been different.

 

Oh, and Glenn Beck said he'll be launching some "Michael Moore is Fat" t-shirts. I might actually get one...

[Guest MikeSC]

But I was told at this board by some that Bush should have jumped up, yelled "HERE I COME TO SAVE THE DAY," and rushed outside to start up his super-secret Terrorist B Gone rocket.

 

I heard on the radio that Mikey said during a performance in England that if there were any black people on those 9/11 planes, the outcome would have been different.

 

Oh, and Glenn Beck said he'll be launching some "Michael Moore is Fat" t-shirts. I might actually get one...

Yes, Moore actually DID say that if more blacks were on the planes, it wouldn't have happened (apparently, whites are "pussies" or something).

 

And people say CONSERVATIVES are racist.

-=Mike

...Mikey Moore: I've never been friends with a black person, but I will let them drive my fat ass around...

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Odd, I've never seen a black person drive a livestock trailer.

 

Then again, I haven't seen that many people drive livestock trailers to begin with...

[Guest MikeSC]

Odd, I've never seen a black person drive a livestock trailer.

 

Then again, I haven't seen that many people drive livestock trailers to begin with...

"Mmmmmm, livestock trailers"

-=Mike

[Guest INXS]

And the bashing from the right towards Moore continues. His movie has been made. It's on release. Millions are going to watch it. Nice attempt at smearing his name though.

[Guest MikeSC]

And the bashing from the right towards Moore continues. His movie has been made. It's on release. Millions are going to watch it. Nice attempt at smearing his name though.

Only way his name can be smeared if he wipes the bacon grease off his fingers on it.

-=Mike

[Guest INXS]

LOL that was quite funny. I think we are all fully aware that Moore is overweight though.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

Just for those interested, I was reading a bunch of reviews of this in the Guardian, which of course is a left-leaning paper from Britain. While one reviewer liked the film, the other called it "messy, overly long" and noted that Moore's attempts to "skewer Bush" were off-target and weak.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

You better not be referring to what I posted, which I hardly consider Bashing. More like...wtf man?

 

Look. I ain't conservative. I hate spin from both sides

Right now, its disgusting the spin Moore has on this.

 

I WANT a president to act calm, especially with those kids present. that is the best thing to do, by far.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

http://www.buzzmachine.com/archives/2004_06_24.html#007356

 

I liberal survivor of 9/11 and no friend of bush destroys the film.

[Guest Olympic Slam]

LOL that was quite funny. I think we are all fully aware that Moore is overweight though.

I don't think you realize just how FAT~!!! he is

[Highland 0]

I think Bush handled himself and his office extremely well during the 9/11 attacks and in the weeks following. I'm not a big fan of his, but I support him in the war in Iraq and in this.

That being said, I got a little question: He's been critisized for going around in Airforce One during the attacks, and basically being called a coward. I've a feeling he had no real say in the matter and he was put on the plane as part of some security measure in the event of an attack (which this was). Am I right or very much mistaken?

[Guest Anglesault]

But I was told at this board by some that Bush should have jumped up, yelled "HERE I COME TO SAVE THE DAY," and rushed outside to start up his super-secret Terrorist B Gone rocket.

Rushed isn't the correct word. He was supposed to launch himself out the window and use the American flag to safely guid him to the ground where the rocket was waiting.

[Special K 0]

Honestly, I haven't seen the movie, but I did by the book 'Dude, where's my country', and from what I've heard, it largely concerns itself with the same topics Since I'm a liberal, and I liked Roger & Me, TV Nation, and in general Bowling for Columbine.

 

'Dude' was a bad book. It had no cohesiveness, it had no thesis. It's conspiracy theories were often half-baked, and he clearly wanted to have both ways with every issue. Blame bush for not doing something, then blame him when he does it.

 

I really, really dislike Bush. He's the only president that has filled me with active resentment. (I know, Kerry's no great shakes either. Give me a McCain/Edwards ticket and you'll see a man happy for 4 years)

However, the biggest problem in the country is that both parties are looking absolutely crazy. Allying themselves with Moore just out of vitriolic anger towards Bush just makes liberals look like crazies.

[NYU 0]

Well, I'm shocked. Something I said in the Current Events folder -- dare I say it -- has been manipulated to the point where it doesn't resemble anything I had typed.

 

I NEVER said Bush should have jumped out of that chair after he heard the news about the Twin Towers. I NEVER said he should have ran out of the room, sending both the children and the teachers into a hysterical panic. I NEVER said he should have done any of those things.

 

I said he should have calmly stood up, told the children he had important Presidential matters to attend to, promised them he would have been back to read soon, reassuringly smile during this whole speech, then calmly walked out the door.

 

This would have taken about a minute, would have kept the children calm, and would have let the President handle more important matters - like the deadliest terror attack this country has ever seen.

 

Hopefully, you can understand what I'm trying to say this time around.

[Guest Anglesault]

This would have taken about a minute, would have kept the children calm, and would have let the President handle more important matters - like the deadliest terror attack this country has ever seen.

And what was he going to do to andle the attacks?

[NYU 0]

This would have taken about a minute, would have kept the children calm, and would have let the President handle more important matters - like the deadliest terror attack this country has ever seen.

And what was he going to do to andle the attacks?

Try reading the previous thread that focused on this, instead of asking me to repeat myself all over again.

 

Anything would have been more useful during that time than sitting in that classroom and reading a children's story for eleven crucial minutes.

[Justice 0]

This would have taken about a minute, would have kept the children calm, and would have let the President handle more important matters - like the deadliest terror attack this country has ever seen.

And what was he going to do to andle the attacks?

Try reading the previous thread that focused on this, instead of asking me to repeat myself all over again.

 

Anything would have been more useful during that time than sitting in that classroom and reading a children's story for eleven crucial minutes.

You say "crucial" because nothing could be done at that point, right? Honestly, by the time the second plane hit, everything else that happened was inevitable. What else could he do besides don a Superman outfit and save the day? 11 minutes, at that point in time, meant little because the only thing after that was the investigation into who did it and clean up.

[NYU 0]

Hindsight is wonderful, isn't it?

 

At this time, nearly three years after the attack has happened, those eleven minutes don't seem too important. But try to imagine that day again.

 

You're forgetting the unknown variables at the time. During that morning, nobody really knew what targets had been hit and what targets were next. There were crazy rumors that Disneyworld had already been hit, the terrorists were targeting Camp David, etc. What President Bush SHOULD have done....from the instant moment he heard that we were under attack....was send jets to the prime locations of the country. He should have been out of that seat and making sure that defenses were immediately sent to the major cities of the country. New York City, Washington D.C., Los Angeles. We might not have known for sure what was going on, but those steps should have definitely been taken. Without an 11-minute wait.

 

Just try to forget the hindsight you have right now. Think about September 11th, 2001 all over again. Bush had that 11-minute time frame to send planes to the major places of the country as a scrambled-together defense system. Now, just imagine if you will, if the terrorist attacks had continued that day. Imagine the Space Needle or the Golden Gate Bridge -- two major landmarks that people could have been in at the time -- were destroyed by jumbo jets.....yet could have been saved if Bush had taken the proper advantage of those 11 minutes like he should have? Something along these lines should have been thrown together RIGHT AWAY by the President of the United States. But he held off the matter so he could read a story in a Florida classroom. Those 11 minutes don't seem like anything right now. But something COULD have happened as a result of those 11 minutes -- and he would have been too late to stop it.

 

Just remember that after the second plane hit, people were still DEATHLY afraid of what else could happen that day. There were rumors that landmarks had been destroyed, car bombs had been set off all over the country.....the matter was NOT anywhere near closed. Nobody knew that the plane flying into the Second Twin Tower was the end. Bush didn't know this either at the time. Yet.....he still sat there.

 

Why?

[KingPK 0]

Those 11 minutes don't seem like anything right now. But something COULD have happened as a result of those 11 minutes -- and he would have been too late to stop it.

 

Ok, so jets are scrambled to major landmarks. Does the pilots' orders state that they can shoot down any plane they see? And if one or two were just normal flights that got lost in the confusion and got destroyed, how does that help things? And what if they protect the Golden Gate Bridge and the Space Needle, but instead planes hit an unprotected Hoover Dam and some nuclear plant in Nevada? I don't think there are enough planes, and in 11 minutes, not enough time to think of and protect EVERY SINGLE possible target out there.

 

Really, can't we just say "ok, they caught us with our pants down, so let's make sure the belt is extra tight next time" instead of STILL playing the blame game almost three years later?

[NYU 0]

Ok, so jets are scrambled to major landmarks.  Does the pilots' orders state that they can shoot down any plane they see?

 

Once the sky has been immediately closed off to any commercial or private aircrafts, there obviously shouldn't be anything else in the air other than the military planes. If there was an aircraft still flying, the FAA should be immediately contacted to get communication with this airplane. Instructions should be given to land the plane quickly, and that should solve the innocent plane situation. But IF the plane doesn't appear on the radar.....that's definitely a major problem. Even then, the military plane could do its best to communicate with the aircraft and demand it land at the nearest opportunity. If this isn't working either, and the plane isn't responding.....guess what. The most likely situation is that the plane, at that point, had been hijacked. It would definitely be a tragedy if an innocent plane had been shot down, but use logic. How many innocent planes would be flying around after the 9/11 attacks without open communication, without radar identification, and without responses to military instructions? As terrible as the situation might be, more people would be saved by shooting down this plane that is NOT following any of its instructions rather than letting it fly into a major landmark. It's a horrible sacrifice, but a realistic one nonetheless.

 

And what if they protect the Golden Gate Bridge and the Space Needle, but instead planes hit an unprotected Hoover Dam and some nuclear plant in Nevada? I don't think there are enough planes, and in 11 minutes, not enough time to think of and protect EVERY SINGLE possible target out there.

 

Not everything can be protected, but it's better to make attempts to protect as much as you can with these military aircrafts rather than hardly anything at all. At least they had done the absolute most they could when it came to scrambling up defenses. The Bush Administration didn't do absolutely as much as they could defense-wise following the 9/11 attacks that day.

 

Really, can't we just say "ok, they caught us with our pants down, so let's make sure the belt is extra tight next time" instead of STILL playing the blame game almost three years later?

 

Tell this to those that still try to pin the entire thing on Clinton.

 

Tell this to the Bush administration, which is using the intelligence failure of 9/11 as the driving force behind reelection.

 

Tell this to those that are attempting to find a tiny shred of justification for Bush becoming entirely meaningless in a Florida classroom during a time that SCREAMED out for the President of the United States to take immediate action and try to regain control. They can't admit his reaction was inappropriate and one of the most unhelpful things he could have possibly done. Guys, it's not hard to admit that he made a bad decision HERE at least. If we can't disagree about anything else, at least push your bias aside for a second and realize that sitting in this classroom for 11 minutes was an absolutely, utterly useless decision.

[Stephen Joseph 0]

You say this

Yet you only know this in hindsight

 

There's thousands of people who 20 + years experience who knew immediately what was going on. You think they were trying to figure out what to do? Yes. Are they smarter than me? Yes. They're smarter than you too.

 

BEFORE a President jumps up, You HAVE to know what's going on. The President stays safe at all costs.

 

You've brought nothing but hindsight arguments...

I would ask you to do this. Go research what protocol is in emergency situations.

 

marney knows best about these

[Guest MikeSC]

Hindsight is wonderful, isn't it?

 

At this time, nearly three years after the attack has happened, those eleven minutes don't seem too important. But try to imagine that day again.

You mean those eleven minutes where Bush maintained calm --- well, provided one assumes the principal of the school isn't a lying, right-wing bitch.

You're forgetting the unknown variables at the time. During that morning, nobody really knew what targets had been hit and what targets were next. There were crazy rumors that Disneyworld had already been hit, the terrorists were targeting Camp David, etc. What President Bush SHOULD have done....from the instant moment he heard that we were under attack....was send jets to the prime locations of the country.

Again, and do what? Since the jets shut off their transponders --- we didn't know WHERE they were (a concern very much mentioned by members of the military that day --- hard to scramble them to intercept planes where they don't know where the planes are, what their altitude is, etc.

He should have been out of that seat and making sure that defenses were immediately sent to the major cities of the country. New York City, Washington D.C., Los Angeles. We might not have known for sure what was going on, but those steps should have definitely been taken. Without an 11-minute wait.

The principal said he did the right thing.

Just try to forget the hindsight you have right now. Think about September 11th, 2001 all over again. Bush had that 11-minute time frame to send planes to the major places of the country as a scrambled-together defense system. Now, just imagine if you will, if the terrorist attacks had continued that day. Imagine the Space Needle or the Golden Gate Bridge -- two major landmarks that people could have been in at the time -- were destroyed by jumbo jets.....yet could have been saved if Bush had taken the proper advantage of those 11 minutes like he should have?

Again, scramble planes to intercept planes that we couldn't locate due to the whole shutting off their transponders.

 

In layman's terms, it's called finding a needle in a haystack.

Something along these lines should have been thrown together RIGHT AWAY by the President of the United States. But he held off the matter so he could read a story in a Florida classroom. Those 11 minutes don't seem like anything right now. But something COULD have happened as a result of those 11 minutes -- and he would have been too late to stop it.

Except you can't name something that wasn't done. Everything you've proposed was done --- military said they were a little useless since they didn't know where the planes were, etc.

Just remember that after the second plane hit, people were still DEATHLY afraid of what else could happen that day. There were rumors that landmarks had been destroyed, car bombs had been set off all over the country.....the matter was NOT anywhere near closed. Nobody knew that the plane flying into the Second Twin Tower was the end. Bush didn't know this either at the time. Yet.....he still sat there.

 

Why?

Because the chain of command worked excellently. And he was done reading --- since, by your clock, he stopped reading 11 minutes after the first attack.

-=Mike

[tommytomlin 0]

And I'm completely sure if it was President Clinton or Gore reading to kids for 11 minutes during 9/11, everyone in this thread would have a completely different view.

[Art Sandusky 0]

Not panicking children > addressing death and destruction in New York.

 

Not saying he should have leapt up and said "HOLY SHIT WE'RE FUCKED!! KIDS, RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!!" Rather, he could have, at the very least, excused himself for a moment to get a little more detail than that which was whispered in his ear.

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

Hmmm, I remember reading on his site that Moore had every intention of using this film as his way of "Regime Removal" in reference to Bush.

 

Whatever. I'm still going to see it and make up my own mind.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

 

I'm so getting this.

 

And you can, too...

[Guest INXS]

How did Bush know he wasn't a target himself on 9/11? He was told that America was under attack yet Bush himself carried on reading to kids.

 

Two planes had crashed into the WTC. Two more were flying around the country, destinations unknown. Airports surrounded Booker Elementary School, one of them only 4 miles away. How did the Secret Service KNOW it was safe for Bush to continue sitting there reading about goats?