The WWE PG 13 Philosophy

[Promoter 0]

I haven't been online as much as I use to and by the looks of how slow the IWC has become it doesn't look like I'm the only one. What I'm asking here seriously is the wwe's approach to cater to kids in hopes of having those kids grow into adults and being fans.

 

I think this a flawed idea that may derail the company from being the best it could be. I understand where they are coming from because they are basing this on Hulk Hogan's fans of the 80's returning in the 90's when Hogan turned heel.

 

Vince is missing some elements on why wrestling resurrected in the 90's and why it died a slow death post WM 6.

 

I think it all had to with the FORMAT. If we look at how wrestling evolved from January 23, 1984 until let's say WrestleMania XX.

 

IMO, wrestling grew to great heights until Vince started to insult his audience. The characters and storylines til around WM 3 you seen an emphasis on an exhibition with athletes competing in "the world of professional wrestling" where "Hogan was the greatest professional athlete in the world today". The wwf got press and media attention that wasn't seen before.

 

Over in the NWA and AWA they had the same sporting approach. The difference between them and the wwf though was the major league presentation. The wwf would have "Updates", "Superstars", mainstream interviews, and celebrities. It was about making it acceptable to watch.

 

For some reason, Vince went to the "Family Entertainment" approach in 1990(which started in 1988 as they turned back on old school by releasing those best of title series videtapes) and had a lot more cartoon characters and more of a Walt Disney approach. The wwf went down the tubes because it got watered down. WCW tried the opposite. Then in the mid 90's came and Eric Bischoff changed a lot of the played out things such as jobber matches that everybody and their mother could predict.

 

He went live for the "A" show. Even that did not bring in the change because although he had the big stars of the 80's what he did was simply just a rehash of storylines and characters. What brought wcw and wrestling out of the doldrums was shedding the cartoon characters and becoming more realistic and reality based in storylines. It became more edgy. Vince followed suit in shaping raw more like nitro. Vince followed that up by beefing up his roster and increasing the match quality, while wcw did not fix the holes that fans were stating were there.

 

Right now I think Vince Mcmahon is in cruise control because of no competition and even the competition within he was trying to promote to stop stagnation isn't there anymore. Their idea to fix this with more PG wrestling is exactly what the wwe doesn't need imo. Yes, the attitude era is over and realistically some of that stuff would simply not work anymore. However, it seems to me the wwe has dropped in keeping people's attention since about 2006 for various reasons imo. I think the idea to use kids now and having them for future adult fans is flawed simply because the wwe has an attitude problem in not taking criticism well. They have shown to have problems keeping adult fans and the reason being it doesn't take critique well. They rather go for new kid fans who won't judge the product, but the cycle will just continue.

 

An example is the FORMAT of RAW and Smackdown basically. It has been the same since the major change in 1997(that's going on 12 years now). That is the same as having the format of WWF Superstars from 1986 and continuing it in 1988(which they did) expecting to grow the fanbase or to keep the fanbase. Another aspect financially the wwe won't do, but a lot of fans have complained about is all the ppv shows that all seem the same. Fans are asking for less to appreciate it more, but they are not listening. When they went with more ppv shows to counter wcw the fans kind of asked for it in that they wanted more ppv caliber shows and the fans paid for it. My point is the wwe has not learned how to keep adult fans without insulting their intelligence and the approach of targeting kids for a future fanbase is taking things for granted which is the core problem. Fans voiced their problems with certain characters and the wwe refused to fix the problems(Cena is an example as he got more heat as a tweener and "smackdown franchise"). I don't mind his in ring as others, but what they've done to his character is appalling. At least before he had serious heat from all types of fans. Now it's just kids they want him to get heat from(not even Hogan was THAT much kid friendly*just ask Jesse Ventura ).

 

I believe the wrestling fans of the 80's and 90's and even earlier in the decade are still there, but they are just not watching for a various amount of reasons. When they connect with the audience they will come back(not all, but a big portion just like they did a decade ago). I know this was long, but I just wanted to show why I think the wwe is thinking short-sighted here.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I thought this was about JC Ice and Wolife D.

[Silence 0]

I thought this was about JC Ice and Wolife D.

 

We are the Nation, of Domination!

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

I know the lyrics to that theme by heart. Seriously. I won't tell you why, either.

[Maztinho 0]

I know the lyrics to that theme by heart. Seriously. I won't tell you why, either.

 

Trick or Treating as Farooq in blackface?

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

I know the lyrics to that theme by heart. Seriously. I won't tell you why, either.

 

Trick or Treating as Farooq in blackface?

 

Yes. You are spot on.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

I thought I was the only one.....to absolutely everything in this thread.

[CBright7831 0]

I know the lyrics to that theme by heart. Seriously. I won't tell you why, either.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only lyrics I can think of in that song are:

 

We are the Nation, of Domination!

[cabbageboy 0]

I'm fine with the PG rating actually. Let's face it, some of the angles they did 10 years ago are embarrassing to watch now due to the "risque" content. As long as they don't insult the viewer's intelligence it's fine with me to focus more on in ring wrestling, less trash storylines, less Russorific stuff.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

There were lyrics when JC Ice and Wolfie D were around.

 

 

[Hasbeen2 0]

PG13 or trashy, just surprise me every now and then-and in a positive way.

[haws bah gawd 0]

WE ARE THE NATION!

LIVE AND IN COLOR!

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

DON'T DISS THE MAN

OR WE'LL BUM RUSH YOUR MOTHER!

[haws bah gawd 0]

LISTEN WHAT WE'RE SAYIN'

IT'S FOR REAL NOT PLAYIN'

FAAROOQ IS THE MAN

SO HIT YOUR KNEES AND START PRAYIN'

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

I GOT THE POWER LIKE THE BEAR

BUT QUICK LIKE A CAT

PUT TWO AND TWO TOGETHER

PUT YOUR FACE ON THE MAT

 

YOU COUNT THE STARS

WHILE THE REF COUNTS THREE

HOPE YOU LIKE TO LOOK AT CEILINGS

CAUSE THAT'S ALL YOU'RE GONNA SEE!

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I recall my friends and I had a .wav file of that - no idea where it came from, but I know the AOL version of WWF.com had a theme database back in the day - and listened to it all the time. Awesome song.

 

I apologize to Promoter for basically ruining his thread, but really, this has been awesome.

[BHK 0]

What do you mean ruin the thread?

 

This thread is awesome. I completely forgot about PG13.

 

 

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY

[Jericholic82 0]

I PLEDGE ALLIGIENCE TO THE NATION OF DOMINATION. ONE NATION, UNDER FAROOQ, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR NO ONE!!

 

Back to topic, I agree with what you're saying, Vince always seems to stick with a formula well past its time, driving it into the ground, over and over again, like he has with the attitude formula for the past decade. I don't know what would turn the tide now, but I doubt going back to the "cartoon era" will do it.

[BHK 0]

I don't think things are going to change anytime soon.

 

the reason for this is(and someone can correct me here if I'm mistaken) is that if I recall correctly, WWE is extremely profitable right now, bringing in more revenue and making a bigger profit than it ever has before. This alone would convince Vince and company to continue doing what they are doing.

[NoCalMike 0]

I think part of it has to do with Vince having complete control over everything. I doubt he ever wanted to make the product pushing a "Mature" rating, in the mid-late 90's, he just kind of had to because that is what was catching on in other companies and taking from his own business.

 

Also, lets look at my generation of "wrestling fan" I am 28 right now, so basically as a kid, I was the last wave of "Hulk Hogan era" which then led to the downtime, not workrate-wise but business-wise....then as I become a teenager, suddenly ECW sprouts up with a more mature theme and then WCW & WWE follow suit and get more edge to their product. So as I am growing up and, so is the wrestling business.

 

The problem though is, there is still an entire new generation of kids that between them and their parents, spend a hell of a lot more money on merchandise then me who Vince is probably alienating by the more mature product.

 

Fast forward, and ECW is done, WCW is bought, and you have Vince in control of everything, and takes the company public, which means now he doesn't answer to merely himself.

 

Whether you like the product or not, (I don't for the most part) Vince probably made the best BUSINESS decision.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

What do you mean ruin the thread?

 

This thread is awesome. I completely forgot about PG13.

 

Ruining his thread. The ensuing thread was awesome.

[Kinetic 0]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only lyrics I can think of in that song are:

We are the Nation, of Domination!

 

I'm with you. I do recall there also being the sound of marching feet, and then "Nation of Domination," but none of this rap lyric stuff is ringing a bell. Was this in roughly the same period as Gang Warz, where the Nation splintered off into three warring factions? Was The Rock in the Nation at the time? What was Kurrgan's role in all of this?

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

There's a bit in between about JC Ice and Wolfie D that I can't specifically remember (though I can sing along to it). This follows:

 

CLARENCE MASON IS THE BOSS CROSSIN' T'S AND DOTTIN' I'S

TELLS THE TRUTH, WHOLE TRUTH, NEVER TELLS A LIE.

[Papacita 0]

HE'S HARDER THAN A ROCK AND HE CAN'T BE STOPPED

SO SUCKA STEP TO THE SIDE UNLESS YOU WANNA GET DROPPED.

THE BOYS FROM THE HOOD ARE ON THE M-I-C

SPITTING OUT THE LYRICS

JC ICE AND WOLFIE D!

 

^Thar ya go!

[Papacita 0]

BTW, I tend to agree with NoCalMike on the issue. Business-wise, my biggest issue with Vince has been that he would play casual fans and basically ignore his core audience. Right now, a significant (and growing) portion of that core audience is made up of kids, so that it makes sense not to alienate them. Plus if more family friendly entertainment means less Katie Vick, then I'm all for it.

 

There's a lot that WWE can do shape things up, but I don't think this is a step in the wrong direction. PG doesn't necessarily mean cartoony, just as "Mature" doesn't necessarily translate into good/entertaining.

[RedJed 0]

I'm missing where, other than some really horribly lame attempts at family style all-ages friendly humor and the elimination of blading, that the company has really changed much of a direction since they went to TV-PG or whatever its at these days. Generally speaking, we still are getting good to sometimes great pay per views (and dare I say the pay per views have really gotten much consistently better than they were just as of a few years back), feuds are still heated, etc.

 

In fact, more than ever, I think partly because of the "evolution factor" of all of us first getting into WWE as children, and then it evolved as we did into teens/young adults, and now this core audience is starting to raise their own kids, etc, it's just about the right balance of things. There is more emphasis than ever towards a realistic style of workrate, in alot of cases, in the big matches, a more stiff style which has seen many memorable moments of hardway blood shots this past year as well. Gimmicks and characters in the company are a mixed bag, but there are still more quality gimmicks than bad, even with the movement towards catering to general audiences.

 

And maybe the original poster here doesn't have HD feeds of the shows, but I have seen a strong shift in production and the formats of the shows since they went to HD, better camera angles, more randomness of this and that from a segment to segment standpoint as well. Seems more polished than ever, which is bad and good, but more good than bad as long as they still try to spice it up once in awhile.

 

Sure, shit like Hornswaggle doing tadpole splashes on heels and Santino trying to be the big baddie by revealing the Santa Claus truth is ridiculous, but I still think the good outweighs the bad in the WWE product when you break it down currently.

[Promoter 0]

I'm fine with the PG rating actually. Let's face it, some of the angles they did 10 years ago are embarrassing to watch now due to the "risque" content. As long as they don't insult the viewer's intelligence it's fine with me to focus more on in ring wrestling, less trash storylines, less Russorific stuff.

 

That's the thing. I'm not actually saying the wwf should be doing some of that stuff 10 years ago. In truth, I think the wwe started to suck in 1999. They put on a better product in 2000 and 2001. 1997-1998 wwf is a different story though. I think they are screwing up the characters in consistency more than anything else. Let me explain.

 

In the 80's Hulk Hogan was indeed the only REAL mainstream draw in the 80's. I have read backlog stories(from Meltzer) about NBC and other companies giving Vince Mcmahon business simply because of the star and drawing power of Hogan.

 

However, the company did have legitimate superstars booked properly that helped Hogan too. Roddy Piper is an example for the original Mania. As Piper stated a lot of people backed Hogan simply because Piper was such a great heel. Then the turning heel of Andre The Giant was booked brilliantly as well. They created engaging angles. It doesn't only fall on the bookers/writers though to be fair. The wrestlers need to pull it off too with great execution.

 

Steve Austin and The Rock are also prime examples of guys being booked properly and executing. Let's not forget how many fans were praying Vince did not turn Austin into a vanilla babyface. They even touched upon this in an interview between Vince and Austin on RAW where Austin told Vince he's not a good guy or bad guy, he's Stone Cold Steve Austin. They were letting us know they were listening to the fans. Why did they do this? Because wcw was kicking their asses in the ratings and did not want to turn fans off. They did the same thing with The Rock too. They changed the format of what the top babyface could or should be for the company.

 

Now let's take the same situation and apply it to John Cena. The guy was connecting with the audience on Smackdown much more than when he was on RAW imo. Why? The writers from that show let Cena be Cena. He wore the same clothes as the majority of the 18-35 demographic and the kids thought he was Mr. Cool. He made his rap cd's and he was appearing on BET Shows as well. Cena seemed genuine to the audience which is a key.

 

I think one of the reasons Hogan started to fall in popularity at the beginning of the 90's was the he started to look too phony(with all the steroid allegations as well). He was starting to get boos(remember the Sid situation at the Rumble?). Vince did not pay attention to what was happening and he wrote Hogan off, but in truth Hogan still had legs if Vince had thought out the box as Bischoff did and turned Hogan heel then(in the long run it was better it happened with the nwo though).

 

They even paid attention to the complaints of fans who said Cena needed to step his game up in the ring. So, what did they do? Give him credibility by going over HHH whom everyone and their mother thought was a sure bet to regain the title from Cena. Look at the heat Cena had in that match amongst the different fans.

 

For whatever reason once Cena came out with the movie The Marine they went straight back to the cookie cutter babyface role for their champions that got played out since the early 90's. I don't think Cena is that bad right now to be honest, but what made people gravitate toward him like 2-3 years ago is missing. He is just there now off his past popularity.

 

Compare Cena to how HHH is booked. They saw the heel HHH was at the point of being a respectable babyface because of his accomplishments and aren't forcing fans NOT to back him. So what do they do? Bring back DX(I agree with the core problems mentioned by denverpunk) to appease the fans who want to cheer him. However, they have not taken away any of the badass nature of HHH that made fans respect him that led to the cheers. I ask if they know not to do certain things with certain wrestlers then there must be another reason why they are doing things the way they are. HHH is family and is always going to be there, so they book him in that fashion imo. However, they should be doing this with everyone else in the long term big picture.

 

Batista/UT's feud is another example. I got no problem with the mutual respect angle, but what happened to the Batista fans backed when he feuded HHH? He had the same respect thing there, but he didn't back down or lose his sly fox ways to outsmart the bigger name. They have just turned Batista into another cookie cutter babyface and maybe it has to do with them catering to the smaller kids. However, they are just taking away aspects to why kids are drawn to the characters in the first place. I don't even want to get into MVP. I dug the storyline, but now where the hell is it going? Too many storylines just go round and round and seems to go nowhere or when they do the outcome is not that thrilling. MVP should have turned shit around already imo to make people actually care.

 

JBL/HBK is another good example of a good storyline idea, but giving it to the wrong guys to execute. I think fans may have bought MVP in the role much easier and the outcome could lead to MVP being a bigger face because the fans wanted to cheer the guy anyways. Right now who wants to cheer a loser? If they are catering to kids they have to think how kids would see it.

 

Good points about bringing up the internet because honestly I think the wwe would not have made the comeback they did without the fans of the IWC. I say this because when the net was at its peak the wwe would see what fans liked and didn't like and would cater to it. Not that should do this for everything, but for the general big picture. They changed this philosophy and pretty much shrunk that part of the fanbase as well. When they had wcw beat they stopped doing the things that helped turn them around. I have no doubt in my mind that someone like Foley got the belt strictly off the love he was getting from online fans saying he deserved at least a token title run for bumping the way he did for Hell in the Cell.

 

I also think some of the wrestlers are trying too hard. Miz for example. When I watch him and Morrison I can't help but think they are trying to be a mix of Edge/Christian and the New Age Outlaws. Now it's fine to do that, but put your own spin on it. With the new philosophy they are coming off like a lite version of both those teams.

 

I also think the wwe has completely lost the bullseye marketing approach of the wrestlers being themselves turned up to 100 in the arena. More than anything else fans like the stars to seem genuine and not manufactured to make them boo or cheer them which they are doing in catering to little kids ONLY. Now they are always exception to this, but it's not the rule.

 

Look at the biggest stars that wrestling has made and how genuine they seemed to the audience.

 

These are my examples of stars connecting with audiences.

 

Hulk Hogan the bigger than life wrestler that appeared in Rocky III. The fans were ripped off seeing him get the title in the AWA, so when he shows up in the wwf fans were more than ready for him to wipe out the Iron Sheik who robbed Bob Backlund who also seemed genuine in character. He was the people's champ and him wearing the belt looked like it was apart of him.

 

Andre The Giant was loveable to kids and fans everywhere. He turns heel because of jealousy towards Hogan and wanting to be champion. The feud does monster business just as the Hogan/Orndorff feud before. Hogan never lost the title legitimately, so fans even though they loved Savage would back Hogan when they clashed. The storyline also seemed genuine and very plausible with the characters involved.

 

Hogan lost steam in 1990 as Warrior was the new hot babyface(although Hogan was still more popular imo). Anyways, Hogan started to seem less genuine to the audience since Warrior was doing the similar schtick which in turn hurt Warrior. The wwf then turns all their top stars into cartoons instead of more acceptable genuine stars such as Macho King, Polka Dot Dusty Rhodes, The Genius, etc.

 

They continued that approach with the same results and explained that wrestling would no longer big as big as it was. In 1994 or so they started focusing more on wrestling at the top, but that was more of a coincident since the top guys just happened to be the best workers. Bret/Owen was said to do the best business since Hogan was on top at house shows. I wonder why Vince? Bret seemed genuine.

 

Over in wcw Hogan was getting lukewarm responses becase he was in the more workrate heavy fanbase of wcw/nwa. Not only that his act was stale and did not seem genuine. Once Hogan acknowledged the real world and addressed the issues in his heel turn interview at the Bash it was the poweder keg the fans wanted to see and it connected because Hogan now seemed more genuine.

 

The wwf was still doing the same thing with their babyfaces imo. That is one reason why Austin took off in his feud with Bret. Austin seemed more genuine. When Bret turned heel in America and face everywhere(stroke of genius that has yet to be duplicated) else he became more genuine as well. They kept booking the stars like that in Rock, Foley(revealing the 3 faces of Foley), Undertaker(he was no longer a goody two shoes and became more dark), and HBK(they scrapped that boyhood dream snore for more of the HBK who turned on Marty Jannetty with DX HBK). They also started to NOT insult the audience by acknowledging things like the MSG incident and trying to connect it in a sly way to the NWO.

 

Now in the characters they have now can we really say any of them are being genuine with the exception of perhaps HBK(not really so with the current stoyline either) and HHH?

 

It's not to say that they WERE'NT doing this before either because they acknowledged things like Cena's tweener heat and Cena responded on the mic abou it. Now they just have Cena ignore things and go against the character he had. I understand the approach to keep kids buying the merchandise, but there must be a way for a happy medium.

 

----------------------------------------

BTW. I forgot all about PG 13 :lol: :lol:

You guys are hilarious.

 

[Jebus 0]

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

I still remember being caught up in the awesomeness of the new Faarooq at Survivor Series '96. I marked hardy for J.C. and Wolfie (who were actually feuding in USWA at the time, which was immediately dropped in favor of the NOD Memphis squad) coming out as part of the new group. Big step up from what they were doing with eggshell-helmet gladiator Faarooq Asad. Big step up.