clean rob

I'll play, though I tend to suck at these things. 1) The winner of the 2005 Royal Rumble will be: Big Dave Batista 2) Who will be the "Ironman" of the 2005 Royal Rumble? Eddie G 3) Who will last the shortest amount of time in the ring? Scotty 2 Hotty...hopefully. 4) Who will get the most eliminations? (If there is a tie, you get your points as long as your guy was one of the guys who tied for most eliminations) Batista 5) Who will be the last man eliminated? Edge 6) Rey Misterio or Eddie Guerrero 7) Edge or Shawn Michaels 8) Chris Jericho or Shelton Benjamin 9) Daniel Puder or Hardcore Holly 10) Chris Benoit or Muhammad Hassan 11) Paul London or Scotty 2 Hotty 12) Jonathan Coachman or the Hurricane 13) Booker T or Orlando Jordan 14) Kane or Gene Snitsky - eliminated simultaneously 15) Batista or John Cena 16) Who will draw #'s `1-4? (One point for each correct person) Benjamin, Christian, Haas, Suzuki 17) Who will be the last four men in the ring? (One point for each correct person) Batista, Edge, Cena, Eddie 18) Who will be the last RAW superstar eliminated? Edge 19) Who will be the last Smackdown superstar eliminated? Cena 20) Who will draw #'s 27-30 (One point for each correct person) Batista, Viscera, Dupree, Cena. 21) True or False: Coach will eliminate at least one person from the Rumble False, he's just there for shits and giggles. 22) True or False: We will see a surprise return sometime during the Rumble False 23) True or False: Batista will eliminate Ric Flair False. He won't help him out when Flair needs it though. 24) True or False: Somebody in the Rumble match will blade False. 25) True or False: HHH will interfere in the Rumble match in some way False. TIEBREAKER QUESTION: Give the exact time this year's Rumble match will last: 55:23

I agree that the Rumble match hasn't been pushed particularly hard this year - nowhere near as much as the EC earlier this month IMO - but the qualifying matches have been a nice touch. The pleasant surprise for me about this year's Rumble is the surprisingly strong undercard. Alongside the title matches, there's Taker/Heidenreich, which will probably suck, but is at least a big blowoff gimmick match, and HBK/Edge, which has been built up pretty well over a long period of time. I have to say I don't agree with the amount of contenders you have listed - Kane and Snitsky haven't been anywhere near the title recently (or at all really in Snitky's case) and I see no reason why they'll win - eliminating each other seems the most likely option. Benoit and Guerrero look to be out of the title hunt at least for a while, and both ME'd last WM. I don't see a repeat of that this year. Michaels and Edge should both be too (kayfabe) battered after their match to realistically win, unless they come in very late. Still, Michaels winning would be awful - he's already won it twice and he doesn't need a third time. Edge may have an outside shot as he does seem to be heading for a title match, but a) he's a heel - making him a little unlikely to win it, and b) it makes more sense to have HBK "screw" him out of his title shot and blow this off at WM. Batista and Cena are the only sensible picks IMO. With Edge as a long shot.

They don't have any filler matches yet, so I expect Funaki to defend his title. And lose it. Didn't London qualify at a house show? At the Royal Rumble we only usually get about 4 or 5 other matches aside from the Rumble. 4 is a very small number of extra matches, and there's always at least one filler match in between the bigger ones... there'll be one or two more matches, mark my words.

I think we're just going to have to disagree on this. Judging by the crowd reactions I've been seeing him get on Smackdown over the last few months (i.e. really big ones), I can't see how you would think Cena wasn't over huge. As for carrying the brand, why not? It's not like he'll be on his own anyway what with Taker, Angle etc. about. That might be nice for the midcard, but it won't work at the top level. Today's fans aren't going to accept a "simple 80s-Hogan-style match" on top. They've been weaned on hard working good-to-great main events for so long, that something as basic as a formula Hogan match on top just is not going to cut it, no matter how over the wrestler might be. I think they'll work just fine for TV main events. For PPVs, a combination of gimmick matches, good opponents and heavy planning would probably cover up Cena's shortcomings successfully (you know, like what they've been doing with JBL). If the crowd shit on them, all it takes is a quick depush back to the midcard.

I was going to say something very similar - then I remembered how long Bradshaw has been champ for. I do have a feeling that the reason people are clamouring for Big Dave right now is only because they can't wait to see him finally beat up HHH. Once that happens, I don't think they'll be able to maintain the momentum. I'd like to see me proved wrong though.

Ah crap. It would have been nice to see London in a big match (if only very briefly).

They don't have any filler matches yet, so I expect Funaki to defend his title. And lose it. Didn't London qualify at a house show?

Booker T (who you have forgotten about, apparently) is hardly Benoit, but to call him dead weight would be very harsh...and his matches with Cena were absolutely horrible - the last one might have broken *, but that was it. I think that there is truth in the belief that he isn't trying too hard to improve his in-ring ability. However, the best way to do this is to put him in programs with superior workers, and this is not happening right now - because there isn't anyone suitable. I'm with Haas Of Pain on this one. Cena IS super over - or as super over as it gets nowadays anyway - and I'd go as far as to say that he is currently the most over face in the company. Absolutely. He shouldn't be carrying the offense in a match anyway - he's a face! Cena is not a great worker (duh), but he is good at selling a beating and timing his comeback spots. He needs his flaws hiding and his strengths being played to by getting put in simple 80s-Hogan-style matches until he can manage to put on a stronger all-round match, if ever.

It won't be much of a match I'd expect, but if WWE is serious about pushing Cena they really should start to nudge him into the title scene soon. Nothing is drawing that much right now anyway, but I think JBL/Cena could do a pretty good buyrate personally. The match they had on Smackdown that ended in the triangle choke/pinning combination was ***1/2 or so, as I recall. I think it'd be a good match, but would be dragged down by the fact that at WM, everyone and their mother knows that Taker is not jobbing. Agreed. Rock wouldn't need the title in a program anyway. Hardly. He lost at WMXX (but didn't get pinned), but won clean at both previous WMs - against Hogan and Austin, no less. He should definitely do the job and put someone over this time.

As everyone else has said, the entire undercard looks very predictable indeed: Benjamin, Kane, Hassan, Lita & Eugene/Regal all going over. For the EC, I reckon Benoit and Edge will start things out, followed by HHH, Jericho, Orton then Batista. Jericho and Benoit get eliminated to leave Orton outnumbered before Batista comes in. With Edge down, HHH holds up Orton for Batista, and of course Orton ducks to cause Batista to level HHH. This lets Orton dropkick Batista out of the ring and get the pin on Trips. A bit of 3-way action between 'Tista, Edge & Orton leads to a spear/RKO combo putting away Big Dave, and finally a victory over a bloody Orton for Edge. So my prediction: Edge.

I don't believe that is the case. There was never any point in time (including straight after the Raw with the triple threat) when HHH seemed out of the running for the title. Indeed, many round here were saying that it was obvious Trips was getting the title back due to the controversy. Currently, I would place Benoit ahead of both Jericho (definitely), Edge (debatable) and Batista (debatable) in terms of likelihood of walking out of NYR with the belt. HHH has always been higher up the card than Benoit, so no change there. Orton has been having the WM ME push for 8 months now, so the Benoit hasn't really been shunted down below him recently. The ONLY wrestler who may have 'moved up the pecking order' above Benoit due to the Batista match is Batista, so how you figure it's made him the least likely of the 6 men to win at NYR is beyond me.

Well, you suggested it, and that's crime enough. I am holding out on the fact that Trips is smart enough to recognize that he does not play a good face, and will hold out on any further attempts at a face run until his twilight years as a worker - or at least as long as he wishes to remain on top, which I assume will be the same thing. And for the record, I don't believe the loss last night hurt Benoit significantly. Although it may have put Benoit below Batista in the current 'pecking order' (and I'm not even sure that is true), it isn't like there is an exact number of wrestlers who can be considered legit main eventers at any one time. Ask yourself: does the audience consider Benoit any less of a title threat than they did before this last Raw? (i.e. a possible, but outside, chance) Was the loss considered, or sold as, an upset? I think not.

You say this like it is a good thing. If it's a choice between HHH at top heel or top face (and pretty clearly, it is) then Trips as heel is infinitely preferable.

Err, unless I'm very much mistaken, Burchill was indeed signed to a developmental deal with the WWE in November. So it could happen! (crosses fingers) Itcoulditcoulditcoulditreallyreallycould...

Yes it was. ... but its all good. Im just glad that I created a post that got so many hits. Indeed. In the spirit of things then, I'll throw a few more out that I don't think anyone's mentioned. Lesnar/Kobashi Lesnar/Akiyama Lesnar/Burchill (a bit pre-emptive I know...) Lesnar/Batista (last nights Raw cemented me as a Batista mark) Jericho/KENTA Benjamin/KENTA Dutt/Mysterio Eddie/Dutt (Doug) Williams/Benoit Styles/Benoit Oh, if anyone could point me in the direction of that Lyger/Mysterio match I'd really appreciate it.

I got the impression from the first post that this thread was more about 'big' dream matches, the sort that can headline a major show, rather than the 'two of my favorite wrestlers squaring off' type of dream match.

I'd probably list HBK/Angle as a 'dream match' personally, but it wouldn't be a particularly good draw IMO. The only real big money matches the WWE could do are ones where at least one of the workers isn't currently employed - Hogan/Austin, Austin/Lesnar, possibly Lesnar/HHH. Outside of WWE, I'd have loved to see Joe/Kobashi (especially before Dec. 26th). Maybe Lyger/Mysterio.

Yeah they do. And his ringwork has declined in the last 12 months too. But the fact remains that he's so over it's worth giving him a run with the belt now while he's hot. Will he draw? Probably not, but no-one is drawing much right now, and we'll never know unless he's given the opportunity.

Nobody else has mentioned it, so I guess I'll point out that Joe vs. CM Punk has been announced. Which is nice.

Pretty comprehensive notes by the looks of things... anyway, I'll probably try to catch the fun sounding ME this week, but everything else looks seriously bleh. hhheld_down, I agree that the WM title matches are surprisingly tough to call at the moment. HHH/Orton no longer seems set in stone, and I certainly wouldn't put HHH/Batista (or even HHH/Batista/Orton) out of the question, whether for the title or not. On the SD side of things, it seems a waste to end JBLs long reign before WM, and they really should be pulling the trigger on Cena sooner rather than later - having him be the one to finally take the belt off JBL would be the best way to make him a bona fide star, but the match would most likely be horrible. Both men need carrying to something over ** IMO - remember Cena/Booker? Ugh. At least Raw has plenty of scope in its title scene. SD has nothing but unsatisfactory options.

Agreed, hence the (singles). Don't get me wrong, I like RVD. He's fun to watch due to sheer athletic talent. But he's not much of one to seem too bothered about his match quality. He suits tag matches pretty well though, he's a great hot tag. Actually, now I think about it, his match with Randy Orton where Randy apparently got concussed (or pretty much knocked out or something) and RVD had to call the whole match around a year ago was fairly good. Meh.

Well RVD is safe as houses then. When was his last good (singles) match? When was his last good singles match not involving a ladder? Besides that though, good for him. I'd be doing exactly the same in the situation. No chance of being a real main eventer due to politics, but by simply going through the motions and hitting his crowd-pleasing spots every week, he's going to remain over enough for the company to keep on the payroll. Why kill himself on the indies when a steady paycheck is coming in for minimal effort? And as he'll clearly never ingratiate himself with office, why not have a week off instead of heading to a warzone? Makes sense to me.

You mean divide that number by 89...sorry! Anyway, enough of being a pedant. The guys on the rosters who I would class as being enjoyable to watch (on a general basis), either in the ring or not, are: Raw: Batista, Benoit, Jericho, Christian, Edge, Kane, Hardy, Foley, Orton, Flair, Michaels, Benjamin, Tajiri, Rock, HHH, Trish, Victoria. SD: Akio, Kidman, Booker, Carlito, Hass, Chavo, Eddie, Funaki, JBL, Cena, Matthews, Angle, Heyman, London, Mysterio, RVD, Moore, Tazz, 'Taker. 40%. Pretty high I suppose. Guess I'm just easily pleased.

1. Move of the year- London's somersault senton over the top rope off Kidman's back at Summerslam. It was sweet. Honourable mentions- Tajiri's basement dropkick onto Coach at Backlash. RVD's release German on Dupree (Velocity?). The aforementioned inverted slingshot suplex by Benjamin to Christian at SurSer. 2. Best Dressed- I don't care how pimp DAVE is. Trish's 'bridesmaid' dress all the way. 3. WWE Homoeroticism Award- Oh, so many to choose from. Though the memory of Snitsky/Heidenreich is still fresh, the vigour of Angle's thruxing of Big Show at NWO is too much to ignore. 4. Promo of the Year- The Foley/Orton post-Rumble promo. Probably the only one all year to make me switch from not really caring much about a feud to getting me really into it in the space of a few minutes. Honourable mentions- Flair & Ortons pre-Taboo Tuesday promo. 5. Bump o' the Year- Orton's Backlash thumbtack bump. Ow. Honourable mentions- The subsequent table bump with tacks by Orton. Again, ow. If we're including botches, Dupree's attempted top-rope hurracanrana on Velocity where he landed on his head looked seriously nasty.

Cheers Vanhalen - although I can't actually find viewing figures (except total ones) for TWC - i.e. in the Multi-Channel top ten list section. Any ideas?