JoeDirt

What's this "stop the fight for blood" bullshit? WE WANT LEBEN WITH A CRIMSON MASK!

Diego/Koscheck will be a really good fight. And the winner of that WILL beat Florian, I'd have to say. I'd have to go with Diego. I'd guess the other final might be Bonnar/Bobby in a rematch.

I say the match ends with Orton winning by DQ or something after Taker busts him open with a chair Orton brings in the ring, or something like that. Orton says he doesn't want to win like that, and wants the match restarted, no DQ. He kicks out of a bunch of stuff but Taker finally wins in the end with a tombstone onto a chair or something. That's the best I can think of unless they are determined to put Orton over clean.

Michael Cole was really funny for some reason.

Hey, don't worry, you liked it...don't let other people bring you down. It's a lot more fun just to like what you like and don't get bothered by the negativity. (That being said, the promo WAS pretty boring)

Cold Day in Hell, Mind Games, and Degeneration-X IYH are gone. Get the good shows before they disappear!

In a somewhat related note, is there anywhere that lists all the WWF syndicated programs and when they aired? I always mix all the morning ones that weren't Superstars.

Was Taker actually hurt? Wasn't he just taking some time off before coming back to feud against Underfaker in the summer? What about the Luger one? Do you guys think he would have been able to get over if he didn't "choke" in the Summerslam match against Yoko?

Right, (actually it was on RAW soon after WMX7) right (Wrestlemania 18, Rock vs. Hogan), wrong (but close). "What a maroon. He's the biggest idiot... he's not the biggest idiot; do you know who the biggest idiot is? Austin, because I walked into that dressing room, I stood face to face with Austin, and I saw the sorrow in his eyes. He looked in my eyes, and he felt BAD for me." "At the end of this road, if there's one man you can say is your friend, THAT is FOR...LIFE." "I love the scent of burnt flesh in the morning." "They look like two carp going after the same piece of corn." "Broken necks, splattered patellas, severed arteries: These are the things from which dreams are made of." "When we're done with you' it'll look like we set fire to your face and put it out with an axe."

"They say behind every great man is a great woman. Well, I guess you're the exception." "He beat Andre the Giant with that move!" "I smell what you're cooking...pure paranoia!"

This is a new thread I thought I'd start that could be a little different and unique. Basically we, the posters here at the TSM boards, take a famous match in wrestling history and talk about the buildup to the match, the match itself, and the fallout. I don't know if anyone else will want to jump in and write something up, but we'll just see how it goes. I'll start with a little writeup I did before for Shawn Michaels vs. Steve Austin at Wrestlemania 14: Steve Austin came to the WWF as the Ringmaster in 1996, and first met Shawn Michaels in the Royal Rumble of that year, getting in several good shots on the Heartbreak Kid. Michaels ended up winning the Rumble and winning his first WWF championship at Wrestlemania by defeating Bret Hart in an ironman match, while Steve Austin was a midcarder, getting a win over Savio Vega. After feuding with Vega for a few months, Austin lost a Carribbean strap match to Vega at the May IYH PPV, and because of prematch stipulations, his manager Ted Dibiase had to leave the WWF. Austin said later that he lost the match on purpose in order to be able to go out on his own. That's just what he did, and he won the 1996 King of the Ring. Austin and Michaels didn't interact much more until 1997. Michaels was no longer the WWF champion, and he shared something in common with Austin: both men hated Bret Hart. Hart had defeated Austin in a submission match at Wrestlemania 13, in one of the greatest and most memorable matches in wrestling history, when Austin passed out from the pain and blood loss while Hart had him trapped in the sharpshooter. Michaels and Hart had been at odds for some time, both in front of the audience and backstage. The night after Wrestlemania 13, Hart even roughed up the "injured" Michaels, wrapping his legs around the ringpost and applying a variation of a figure four leg lock. Joined in their hatred of Bret Hart, but never ever becoming friends, Austin and Shawn Michaels won the tag team titles on RAW in a great match against Bret's Hart Foundation allies, Owen Hart and the British Bulldog. But Austin and Michaels had a strong dislike for each other as well, and faced off in a one on one match at the 1997 King of the Ring. The match was great action, back and forth, and stole the show, but ended in a double disqualification. From there, Austin continued his feud with the Hart Foundation while Michaels soon formed Degeneration-X with his new running buddy HHH, Chyna, and his new bodyguard and "insurance policy", Rick Rude. DX wreaked havoc on the WWF, each week testing the limits of how much they could get away with on national television, and causing WWF commissioner Sgt. Slaughter plenty of problems. Austin, meanwhile, was sidelined for a brief period with an injury sustained when Owen Hart gave him a sitdown tombstone piledriver in a match at Summerslam 1997. Austin came back to win the IC title from Hart in Montreal at Survivor Series 1997, while Shawn Michaels won the WWF title from Bret Hart in the infamous match where Vince McMahon screwed Bret Hart, calling for the bell to be rung when Michaels had Hart in the sharpshooter, not wanting the WWF champion Hart to leave for WCW with the belt. It was only a matter of time before Michaels and Austin collided. Austin set his sights on winning the 1998 Royal Rumble, and did just that even with a huge target on his back, earning himself a shot at the WWF title at Wrestlemania. Michaels was able to survive a casket match with the Undertaker at the Rumble, retaining his WWF title with help from DX and Kane, but also hurting his back in taking a bump into the casket (his back hit the edge of the casket), and causing him serious pain and serious injury. After the Rumble, Michaels and Austin were set for a WWF title match at Wrestlemania. The question was whether Austin could stand up to the gang attacks (and dare I say shennanigans) of DX. The night after the Rumble, Michaels and DX mocked Undertaker and HBK made a quick mention of Austin, saying that he had won the IC and tag titles just like HBK, but never the big one. Austin, meanwhile, got involved in a scuffle with Mike Tyson, who was announced to be a special guest at Wrestlemania, raising the ire of WWF owner Vince McMahon, and even getting footage on SportsCenter in the process. Austin faced future DX member Road Dogg Jesse Jammes on the 2/2/98 edition of RAW. The match ended when DX hit the ring and attacked Austin, tying him up in the ropes. Michaels held the belt in front of Austin's face and said he would never win the title. Austin countered the next week by stealing HBK's WWF title belt, though Michaels was able to get it back by the end of the show. Michaels struck the first real blow in the feud on the 3/2/98 edition of RAW. Steve Austin was scheduled to face Kane in the main event of the show, but the match never happened. Instead, Austin was jumped on his way to the ring, and Michaels drilled him with his trademark Sweet Chin Music superkick. It was clear to those backstage, however, that Michaels' back was not in good shape, as he was in serious pain after doing this one move to Austin. Another big development in the feud happened earlier in the 3/2/98 RAW, when Mike Tyson came to the ring and was confronted by Michaels and DX...only for Michaels to rip off Tyson's shirt revealing a DX shirt. Michaels announced that Tyson was the newest member of Degeneration-X, and things didn't look good for Austin, as Tyson was set to be the special enforcer outside the ring at Wrestlemania 14 during the title match. The 3/9/98 RAW saw Michaels strike again. An angry Austin hit the ring during a HHH vs. Savio Vega match, and gave stunners to everybody including the referee. As he had HHH cornered, however, Michaels was able to sneak into the ring and drill Austin with another kick to the jaw. On the final RAW before Wrestlemania, 3/23/98, Austin gave an interview to start the show, but then was told by Commissioner Slaughter that he would have to wrestle the Rock on RAW, and if he did not his match against Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania would be a non-title match. Austin ended up defeating Rock (in a preview of the next year's Wrestlemania) with the stunner, and when DX came out after the match, Austin actually got a few shots in on Michaels before DX retreated. Finally, the big show arrived, and Austin faced Michaels in the main event of Wrestlemania 14. The match itself started out a brawl, as the men fought around ringside and even into a live band area that had just played DX's entrance. The match, though probably not as good as the King of the Ring 1997 match due to both men being banged up going into it, was still quite good. Referee Earl Hebner ejected HHH and Chyna from ringside early in the match, leaving just Austin and Michaels, with Tyson at ringside. The ending of the match was quite memorable. Michaels took advantage on Austin and dropped a top rope elbow before going to the corner to "tune up the band" and set up for his sweet chin music. The only thing was that the referee was down, after having been knocked out by an inadvertant blow. Michaels went for the kick, only to have Austin duck it. Austin went for his stunner, but Michaels blocked it and went for his kick again. Austin caught Michaels' foot, spun HBK around, and then delivered the stunner. And then, to top things off, Mike Tyson slid into the ring and (since he was enforcer he was legal to count pinfalls) counted to three! Steve Austin was the new WWF champion. Michaels was (no pun intended) stunned. Had he been double crossed by Tyson? He confronted Iron Mike in the middle of the ring, only to be decked by a big right hand. Austin continued to celebrate, and the Stone Cold era had begun in the WWF. Austin went on to feud with Vince McMahon, who didn't like the idea of having a champion like Austin, who gave him so many problems, and went on to be one of the highest (if not THE highest) drawing WWF champions of all time. Michaels, who fought back pain the entire title match, had to take time off, and never wrestled again regularly until 2002. HHH took over Degeneration-X, saying that Shawn "dropped the ball" at Wrestlemania. And there we have it. Thoughts, comments, corrections, discussion of the match, etc is all welcome. And feel free to post your own buildup to a big match in wrestling history. P.S - was any explanation given of why Tyson turned on HBK?

I have no idea, but it sounds like something Kevin Nash would say. Or I guess the obvious guess would be Benoit. Yep, it was Nash. In fairness, it was obviously a joke, because Hall and Jarrett laughed when he said it (as well as everyone at the 'press conference' they were doing). Foley to Joe? Yep, Foley to Joe at the "It All Begins" show from January. Great segment.

I'm graduating from college in May so I need to get rid of some of this shit before I move. So hopefully you guys want to pick some stuff up. Prices are $7 shipped for the first tape, $12 for two, $15 for three. This includes shipping to anywhere in the U.S, but add a dollar to each price if its in Canada. Here's what I have: -IWA-MS Put Up Or Shut Up 1st gen, January 2004: (Hero/Daniels loser leaves town cage match, Chikara match, Webb vs. Delirious, Steel vs. Lynn, more) -IWA-MS Simply of the Best 5, + main event match from PWG 88 Miles Per Hour 1st gen -WCW 1999 year in review (a 2 tape set reviewing all the big PPV matches and angles that set them up throughout the year. Pretty cool stuff actually) -WWF Survivor Series 1991 1st gen -WWF Survivor Series 1993 1st gen -WWF Judgment Day 1998 1st gen -WWF RAW episodes for 6/28/99, 7/5/99, and 7/12/99 (one tape) -WWF Judgment Day 2000 1st gen PM me if you are interested in anything. I suggest you get the good stuff fast. I may add some more stuff later, so keep checking back. Thanks!

If you hear his interview as the 2/96 IYH PPV, you can tell he is not. He definitely sounds a lot more Hawaiian than Japanese there.

"I make chicken salad out of chicken shit."

I was surprised that Rey Misterio was only 30, but he started so young it makes sense. Damn, he has a lot of years left in him, hopefully.

As I've said before on here, I didn't start watching wrestling until 1999. I REALLY got into things later that year and in 2000 and went crazy watching all sorts of stuff from the past, but in early 1999 I wasn't really on the net yet and was really a mark. Remember that RAW episode in 1999 where Undertaker faced Big Show and Show chokeslammed Taker through the ring? I was watching that RAW at a friend's house and I remember talking about how great the match was going to be. I had no clue what workrate was, I was looking at it from a mark's perspective: Two big monsters who never lost were going to face each other. I try to keep that in mind when I watch wrestling with my more markish friends these days, though most of my friends don't watch anymore.

Tunney did one of his proclamations on Superstars, which was repeated on all the other shows. He said that since the three was counted and the bell rang and the title was awarded to Andre, it was his. But Andre got on the mic said he "surrendered" it to DiBiase. Tunney said that surrendering the title to another wrestler was not permissible (obviously). But surrendering the title (standing down as champ) is totally within the rules. Since Andre surrendered the title, he lost it, so it was held up and Andre became the shortest-reigning WWF champ of all time. It makes sense. BTW, that was all going from memory, so if I got any minute details wrong, forgive me. Thanks for the explanation, I appreciate it. This may seem like a dumb question, but why was Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant not done at WM1 or WM2?

For some reason I found this card to be interesting: WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - September 22, 1980 Televised on the MSG Network The Hangman defeated Dominic DeNucci at 10:15 Rick Martel defeated Rick McGraw at 6:47 (Martel's MSG debut) Les Thornton defeated Jose Estrada at 7:41 Pat Patterson defeated Johnny Rodz at 8:30 Pedro Morales defeated Afa at 3:34 Tony Atlas defeated Sika at 5:32 WWF IC Champion Ken Patera defeated Rene Goulet at 1:04 Larry Zbyszko defeated Tony Garea via disqualification at 13:34 when Garea failed to release an abdominal stretch after Zbyszko reached the ropes Andre the Giant pinned Hulk Hogan at 12:25 when guest referee Gorilla Monsoon gave Hogan a fast count WWF World Champion Bob Backlund defeated NWA World Champion Harley Race via disqualification at 35:14 when Race pulled the referee into Backlund as the NWA title holder was caught in a sleeper; this bout was not televised with the rest of the show, rather the Hogan / Andre match from Shea Stadium aired in its place --Can someone explain the deal with Monsoon giving Hogan a fast count? I didn't know Monsoon was a heel at the time. And what was Hogan's status at the time? Was he not looked at then as the future of the company, I'm assuming? Also, a 35+ minute match ending in DQ...ouch. But since it was between WWF and NWA champs, I guess it had to end like that huh.

I just got in from tonight's Smackdown live event at Reed Green Coliseum in Hattiesburg, Miss. I have to say, it was one of the most unusual wrestling shows I've ever seen. I was working on the event staff tonight, and earlier in the day word got around that a majority of the roster had major traveling difficulties getting out of Knoxville, Tenn. I never heard a full explanation, but in the end, only eight wrestlers (and one diva) made it to the show. That meant that there were 18 superstars scheduled who did not make the show. So, what they wound up doing was making the entire show (save the first match) a tournament for the WWE Championship. Not one match that was advertised ended up taking place. Some people were visibly disappointed, mainly because they saw the same wrestlers again and again. But, it was mostly the 'big name' Smackdown stars, so I think everyone pretty much left happy. It ended up being a really good show and all of the guys really busted their asses (especially John Cena). Here are the results: - In a handicap match, the Big Show def. Joey Matthews & Johnny Nitro (with Melina) with a double chokeslam. - In the first round of the WWE Championship tournament, John Cena def. Kurt Angle when he reversed the ankle lock and rolled up Angle for the pin. - In the second round of the tournament, Eddie Guerrero def. the Big Show by DQ with his trademark steel chair 'bait and switch' routine. Afterwards, Big Show chokeslammed Eddie. - Melina came out and shot some t-shirts into the crowd with the air cannon. - In a semifinal match of the tournament, Booker T def. Eddie Guerrero with a reverse rollup. Booker totally played the heel role in this match. - In the final match of the tournament, John Cena def. Booker T with the F.U. - In the WWE Championship match, John Cena def. John Bradshaw Layfield by DQ when Kurt Angle ran in and gave Cena the Angle Slam. Big Show ran in and made the save, then challenged Angle and JBL to a tag team match. - John Cena and the Big Show def. JBL and Kurt Angle after the Big Show pinned JBL with a chokeslam. After the match, Cena put on JBL's cowboy hat and posed with the belt Then Big Show picked up JBL, gave him a huge chop to the chest, and threw him to Cena, who hit him with the F.U. After Cena and Show left the ring, JBL, who was still laying on the mat, got on the mike and said he had been assaulted and was calling Johnnie Cochran. Then he told everyone to kiss his ass and he got up and left. Funny stuff in person! Attendance was really, really low. I would say there was probably just about 2,000 people there. The problem is that Hattiesburg is not a UPN market- the only time we can see Smackdown is when the local Fox affiliate shows a taped broadcast of it on Sunday nights at 11 p.m. A good example of this was seen tonight- when Cena's new music hit, nobody had a clue whose music it was, because no one here had heard it on TV yet. I also got to speak and shake hands with Eddie (whose wife was with him) and Cena- two really nice guys. The WWE Championship match was a weird one. At one point, Dave Finlay came out and was walking around the ring talking to JBL, Cena, and referee Brian Hebner. Then, JBL and Cena spilled out of the ring and started brawling non-stop, and I swear, Hebner must have counted to ten about six times. He would just start over every time he got to ten, even if no one got in the ring to stop the count. He kept cracking up and laughing about it, and it was pretty funny to see. There was a lot of stalling and fooling around in most of the matches, I'm sure to kill time and get in the scheduled 2 1/2 hours. I really gained a lot of respect for Cena tonight. His one-on-one match with JBL half-decent, and the guy totally killed himself and worked four matches. He was definitely the most over superstar with the crowd, with the Big Show right behind him. So overall, thumbs up for a unique show. --PWInsider.com

Do you have a red-line to Meltzer or something? Well he DOES respond to email...

Just a few questions for you to answer, as it's always interesting to see different people's points of views: 1) What is your favorite WM, top to bottom, of all time? 2) What is your least favorite WM of all time? 3) What is your favorite WM match? 4) What is your least favorite WM match? 5) Name some honorable mentions for favorite match: 6) What is your favorite WM venue? 7) What is your least favorite WM venue? 8) Going in, which WM card do you think looked the best on paper? 9) Going in, which WM card do you think looked worst on paper? 10) What do you think is the most underrated WM of all time? 11) What do you think is the most overrated WM of all time? 12) What is your favorite WM moment? 13) What is your least favorite WM moment? 14) Who would you pick as the top three Wrestlemania performers of all time? 15) How many of the previous 20 Wrestlemanias have you seen? 16) What was the most surprising WM moment to you? 17) Who was your favorite "special guest" at a WM? 18) Which WM have you seen the most times? 19) Which WM commentary team was your favorite? 20) Above all, what do you want to see at WM this year? I'll fill mine out when/if we get a few responses here.

So you're saying Hogan called an audible DURING the actual Rumble itself?

I still don't see a heel winning a big tournament at Wrestlemania...heels NEVER won to end PPVs at this time period. So was the plan Dibiase vs. Hogan for WM5 then?

The story I've heard is that it was embellished by the WWF to be that many guys, so as to make HBK look tougher.