Some Guy

T should be in. He was a huge part of the "Rock and Wrestling" era, far larger than Pete Rose was for the Attitude era.

When they get Hogan in and add Mr. T to the celebrity wing they'll have the enire WM 1 main event inducted (Piper, Orndorff, Orton Jr., Snuka, and Patterson are all in or going this year).

He might have fucked up shaving. I've done it before, but I ussually will just shave my whole face if it's a really bad mistake.

i have been thinking about what DVDs WWE could produce and my idea was similar to the original in the thread but rather than sticking to dead guys only I was thinking: "From the Vault: Legend Series" If the guys are dead give part of the proceeds to their families or a charity in their name. I think Owen would be the only one that would be unwelcomed by his family (Martha). DVDs I'd buy: Hennig Rude Bret LOD Bulldog/British Bulldogs Sting Vader Four Horsemen Savage Steamboat Jake Roberts Steiner Brothers Harley Race Goldberg Taz(z) Raven Andre Pillman Dibiase

Really if they just moved HHH and Orton to SD! and Angle and Eddy to Raw they'd be ok. Just moving two top guys would open up a lot of fresh matches. Shift a few mid-carders and *gasp* push them and things might start to turn around. Look at Raw: They have the World Title, IC, and Tag. The IC and Tag Champs have absolutely no impast on the show and often don't even appear. It's a one title show and that needs to change. SD! has no mid-carders, as someone said because they won't push anyone consistantly. Everybody gets start and stop pushes or none at all. It's not like you have to give someone a Lesnar push to get them over enough for the fucking US title, which has meant nothing to speak of since it's inception in WWE and is now just a spinning prop for Cena and was a just shoulder warmer for Show before.

They figured that no one would notice that Peggy Sue and Sherri were on and the same because of the wig, big sunglasses, clothing, and totally different mannerisms, I assume. And I;m sure most people didn't notice, I didn't until I knew it was she. I know that they didn't acknowledge that they were the same person on TV.

Rock-Austin (they feuded and had good-great matches for 4 years) Austin-Bret (Had his best matches with him) HHH-Rock (had his best matches over a long period of time [4 years] with him, the Foley matches were the most important to HHH's career but that was only 2 in 2000, the ones from 97 weren't anyhting great) Bret-Austin (3 incredible PPV matches puts Austin over Owen who had 2 with Bret) Hall-HBK (I don't think Hall had any other great matches) Taker-HBK (3 very good-great PPV matches puts him over Bret's one great one [One Night Only] and one very average one [RR 96] Bulldog-Bret (Summerslam 92 and the Dec 95 IYH were awesome) Sting-Vader (Sting and Flair didn't really have great matches together and they were all the same match pretty much. Vader and Sting changed it up with the running storyline of Sting figuring out how to beat the guy) Luger-Flair (he barely had any other good matches with anyone else) Lesnar-Angle (Had better matches with Angle than with Taker or Show, who were the only other guys he had feuds with) Angle-Austin (great feud and matches) Benoit-Austin (the matches were better than Benoit/Jericho) Savage-Flair (Steamboat and Savage had one great high profile match, Flair and Savage had a series of very good ones) Hogan-Savage (They had consistantly good matches together until they got too old) Foley-Austin (They had two great PPV matches and a few others on Raw) Warrior-Savage (Better than what Rude was able to get out of him) Nash-Bret (NHB vs. HBK was better than anything Bret did with him but KotR 94, RR 95, and Survivor Series 95 were all better than WM 11. Bret wins 3-2) DDP-Benoit (Page's only great matches) Raven-Benoit (Raven's best matches)

Yeah, but what people? Only wrestling fans know who Brian Knobbs is. The mainstream of America wouldn't have the slightest clue.

They need to shake things up and start putting on quality shows first and foremost. They need to get behind one guy on each show and push him until it works like they did with HHH. They need to put said guys over HBK and HHH on the Raw side and Taker, Angle, and JBL one the SD! side. I think Shelton is the guy for Raw, give him a decent finish and a slightly better look (new ring attire) and clean wins with his finish over Shawn and HHH and oyu've got a superstar. On SD! I have no idea who the guy would be. I'm not at all sold on Cena, he's an average worker at best and has a midcard gimmick. And he's supoosed to be a rapper but he doesn't even rap anymore that I've seen. His promos/freestyles used to be funny and rhyme now they are not funny and don't rhyme, plus rather than tryign to be a better worker he's too busy pumping his sneakers, plus his finish sucks, it's a Fireman's carry slam, if he did a DVD proper then it would be believable. Bringing back Brock is might help but he didn't set the world on fire his first time around. I don't watch RoH so I have no idea about their guys but from what I'ce heard they're all too small to be taken seriously by WWE and TNA has no one close to ready for a top spot in WWE. Monty Brown is reaonably charismatic but a craptastic worker with a stupid finish, the rest of TNA is WWE washouts and cruiserweights.

Watch IYH: Beware of Dog and see Vader play a Memphis heel in his match against Yoko. They were doing the Sumo deal and Vader kept false starting and when he went for it he got flattened. He did win teh match and reinjure Yoko's leg but it was after playing a chickenshit during the bout. If Vince had booked him like WCW did then he would have been the monster heel that WWF badly needed in 96. They had no one, they used Bulldog for two straight PPVs because there was no one else. Vader/Shawn should have gone like Vader/Sting did. I would have booked it with Vader beating the fuck out of Shawn and taking his title at Summerslam (Shawn attacks him right away and loses because he was overly aggressive and gets caught by Vader), Vader beats Shawn to retain with the story being that Shawn was too passive waiting to get get his shot in and was never able to at Survivor Series, Vader beats Bret at "It's Time" but Shawn gets upset thinking that he should have had the shot and the slow build for Bret/Shawn II at WM 13 begins), then have Shawn get the win and the strap at Royal Rumble in San Antonio with the story being that he finally figured out how to adapt and avoid Vader's onslaught. Both guys would have come out of that more over and there would have been three great PPV matches. Shawn would actually be a sympathtic babyface as he would have been beaten down and left for dead and Vader a monster heel and they could have always gone back to the match if neither guy had anything else to do for an IYH PPV or as a Raw main event. If anyone cares i would have had Bret beat Shawn at WM 13 and then move into a feud with Vader before having having Shawn get the belt back at Summerslam or Survivor Series 97. I realize that Shawn would have pissed and moaned and for politcial reasons it couldn't have gone down that way but that would have been much more effective booking. Hell, I don't think Vader and Shawn ever really had a blowoff match. Summerslam was a joke with the DQ/Countout/Moonsault finishes. They basically blew 3 PPVs and 6 months of storyline in one night.

The first three are in order the rest aren't. The first four are the only one's my dad (who hates wrestling) would recognize, although he confuses Ventura with Austin) Hogan (He's still the most recognisable face in the history of wrestling) Rock (he's 1A to Hogan) Austin (He didn't cross over as much as the first two) Ventura (people only know him as the wrestler who became Govener) Flair (Flair's big in the Carolinas in the mainstream but anywhere else people wouldn't really know him) Goldberg (got a lot of mainstream pub with WCW in 98, but that might be too long ago for people to rememeber. In last month's Playboy they had a small picture of he and his wife at the Mansion and the caption said "WCW wrestler Bill Goldberg...") Piper (Although he did his shitty movies in the late 80s, so he's larhely forgotten) Savage (Slim Jim commercials) Brock (the recent football thing, he wasn't even that over with wrestling fans before he left which made him a mega heel) Foley (he got a lot of press during the backyard wrestling boom in 99)

Doesn't WWE test run matches at house shows all the time, though? They do, but not usually for two months. According to Cawthon's site HBK/Vader happened for the first time on 6/27/96 and Shawn won with the kick. They had 20 house show matches (including a few Raw tapings) leading up to Summerslam and Shawn won almost all of them with the kick (sometimes in a few minutes and once in 21 seconds) a few were DQs. And there might have been a few more matches as some of the results are incomplete. So I think Vader has a point. Plus they ran the angle were he debuted at the RR and then beat the shit out of Monsoon on Raw and was suspended (he needed shoulder surgery). When he came back they stucj him in Camp Cornette doing 6 mans with Owen and Davey and then a stupid feud with Yolozuna (where at least Vader went over, but played a coward during the matches). He was booked pretty badly after the initial Rumble and Raw debut. I'm not really a Vader apologist but this was really stupid on Vicne's part. They booked him to be just another guy, when he should have been a monster. They did the same shit with Goldberg and it didn't work either time. And with both guys they really needed to push them strong because business was in the shitter in 96 and declining rapidily in 2003. But letting foolish anti-WCW pride get in the way of good business is Vince's forte'.

In his shoot interview Vader says that Vince promised that he'd beat Shawn at Survivor Series, drop the belt to Bret (I'm guessing at the Rumble), win it back (Final Four, I assume), and then drop it to Shawn again (Raw?) (who would then presumably drop it to Bret at WM 13). Seems like too many changes to me but they did end up going Shawn-Sid-Shawn-Bret-Sid-Taker in that same time span. But Summerslam 96 didn't have a good buyrate so plans changed and Sid got the spot. Vader's reasoning for the low buyrate acually makes sense. He and Shawn worked house shows for 2 months and Shawn beat Vader with the kick at just about every one of then (Cawthon's site verifies this), Vader assumes that the house show audience is basically the PPV audience (which is likely) and since they'd already seen Shawn beat him they didn't bother to pay to see the match. I believe that he was going to get the belt at Survivor Series if for no other reason than the Dec 96 PPV being called "It's Time" and Vader's catch phrase being "Vader time". It's a shame that he didn't get the strap because he had good matches with Shawn and Bret, while Sid didn't. He was also going to beat Rocky for the IC title but got arrested in Kuwait and Owen got the spot. He said that in his shoot as well. And he was scheduled to take the WCW belt back from Flair at Superbrawl 94 (sub title "The Revenge of Vader" but Flair got the book just before the show and decided that Vader shoudl tap to the figure four. He also was supposed to beat Hogan for the belt (or at least should have) in 95 and then drop it back to him but Hogan instead decided to no sell his finish and beat him by DQ, by dragging Flair around the ring in a strap match, and no sell his finish again and escape the cage at BatB in effect killing Vader's WCW career.

Yeah, in Flair's book he said he had a conversation with Hulk and Hogan said he had 20 mil in the bank. Adding up the total of the money he earned in his career is misleading in that taxes would have chewed up roughly half of it and he spent a ton of it on his French Villa in Tampa and other stuff. That notwithstanding he is a very wealthy man who I doubt will be missing any meals. Plus if he ever gets hard up (by say wasting money promoting his daughter's singing career) Vince will bring him back if he agrees to do jobs.

At IYH: Beware of Dog Shawn and Davey Boy did a double pin deal. Hepner had been bumped and a new ref came in, the new ref counted Shawn's shoulders down in the ring while Hepner counted Davey's down from outside the ring.

I don't think VInce ever liked him. He turned him into a manager/commentater in 93/94. And according to Raven when Vince found out that he signed with WWF in 2000 Vince said something like, "Raven? Who the fuck hired Raven?" Big mistake by Vince in not using him right. The guy had good matches, great promos, and would've gotten way over if used properly. He and Austin in a program would have been very good.

Honestly, this is a toss up. I don't see where the toss up is. Warrior/Hogan II would have actually drawn, been a better match, and not offended the more sensitive of the fanbase by exploiting war. Slaughter was years passed his prime, out of shape, and had a completely cheap heat based mid card character (like Iron Shiek who I left on my list because they needed a transitional champion to Hogan and he was a good as any), people wanted to kill him, not see him beaten in a worked match. One of those cases where everyone loves the guy, but once he got the title no one gave a crap. But he didn't draw despite everbody loving him. He got big pops, he didn't draw big houses and he couldn't work. Should have been Vader but politics got in the way. Had his reign lasted a lot shorter than a year, it would've been alright, but NOOOO. If it had been shorter and started after he'd been built up, rather than out of nowhere I'd agree. He was feuding with a midcarder (Shawn) and then won the belt and they cut his character's balls off. 1 Day Reign, 1 of the more over heel WRESTLERS (McMahon doesnt count) at the time, plus the main event vs. Austin the night after KOTR was one of the highest rated matches in RAW at the time. If anything, WWE had a good thing there, but just put the title back on Austin the next night. Hot shot bullshit that was designed to nothign but draw a big rating and hurt Kane's career (that combined with myriad of other dumbshit they've done with him has killed any drawing power he ever had and prevented him from ever regaining it). It drew a big rating but so would have any title change or title match involving Austin. Again, I don't know. Booked too strangely. One week he's an unstopable monster, the next he's jobbing to cruiserweights and curtain jerkers. I think you're confusing title reigns. He pinned HHH with a chokeslam in a 3 way with Rock at Survivor Series 99. He was a replacement for Austin who had been hit by a car in storyline terms. They had him built up as a sympathetic babyface in a mid card feud with Bossman over the death of his father and only gave him teh belt because Austin was injured so they couldn't deliver the promised match and gave the fans something instead. He bombed to the point that Vince put the strap back on HHH within a month. As far as him beating Brock, that was a huge mistake. I know they wanted to have Brock beat Angle for the belt at WM but Brock was just starting to get over and they hurt him by having him lose. They should have just run with Lensnar being an unstoppable monster and put him over Angle to retain at WM. JBL rules and you know it... except when it comes to actually wrestling. What does he rule? The guy sucks and isn't over despite having a big stable of lackeys and a huge push. If anyone argues this was a good idea, they need a swift kick in the dick with a steel toed boot. Agreed

Rude did get the INternational World title/Big Gold Belt/the title formerly known as the NWA title. I;m dure he would haev gotten the WCW title in 92 had he not gotten injured and probably in 94 had he not gotten injured and Hogan not come in. Dibiase deserved the belt but there wasn't really space for his reign because of the Mega Powers angle that drew a ton on money. Perfect would have most likely gotten Bret Hart's spot had he not been injured in 92, he thought so anyway according Tributes II. He should have had Yoko's spot at WM 9 IMO. In 96 when Vince thought Bret was going to WCW they were going to buy out his insurance policy (again) so he come back as a main eventer, but they didn't tell him first and he got pissed that they went to the insurance company behind his back and defected to WCW. Bad News was in the same position as DiBiase, he feuded with Savage over the belt in 88 and Hogan in 89. In both cases the belt was reserved for the next guy (Hogan and Warrior). He claims that Vince promised him the belt though. Orndorf and Piper both deserved a run in the mid 80s. Booker T and RVD both should have won the title from HHH and were over enough to run with it for a bit. Razor should have had Nash's spot in 95. Vader should have beaten Shawn at Summerslam 96 and it was really stupid that he didn't. Off topic but related: Guys who had the belt but shouldn't have: Slaughter Sid Nash Kane Big Show JBL Orton (too soon for him) Vince

I was watching Halloween Havoc 95 the other day. Can someone explain who came up with the idea to have Giant fall off the roof and then come out to wrestle Hogan without and selling of the fall or not being.. you know... dead? And why they thought it was a good idea?This was one of the stupidest angles I've ever seen and I've watched a ton of wrestling. I can't fathom how anybody, even on copious amounts of drugs would think this would do anything besides insult the fans and make Bobby Heenan (who sold the hell out of the thing) look really stupid. That and the premise to get them on the roof was really fucking dumb as well. A Sumo Monster truck contest wasn't exactly great TV. But the comentary was funny with them putting over how well Hogan was doing despite not having any experience with it. The whole show basically sucked, aside from Flair turning on Sting and reforming the Horsemen which was awesome and had people litterally jumping up and down.

I was with Hogan all the way and used to argue a lot with my friend about who was better. We were 9, he always called Hogan "Lust Hogan" because of Ventura's WM 5 commentary, I don't think either of us knew what that meant though. I liked Warrior but Hogan was the man to me at the time. The dueling promos on Wrestling Superstars and Challenge were gold though, as were the Savage/Hogan ones form the year before. But we both liked Perfect, Bret, Savage, and Rude which was strange because they were all heels and smaller than the typical WWF guy at the time and now for that matter. We went to a house show at the Boston Garden just before WM 6 and were pissed that Bret no showed.

It was Diesel's run. He was virtually unopposed during his reign. WCW wasn't doing much besides the Hogan/Savage show and Nitro didn't come around until the last few months of his reign. He was a business killer. 95 was a horribe year, save a few matches (HBK/Razor ladder match 2, Bret/Diesel 3, HBK/Jarrett, and a few others) there wasn't a single great PPV that year and only Survivor Series came close to good. HBK did OK with the belt but had no opponents people wanted to see until Vader came around and business went up a little bit. Plus it was during his reign that nWo caught fire in WCW.

Austin was not injured. Steamboat was, he forieted the belt to Austin who then lost to Duggan. This isn't so much one humiliating loss but the Hogan/Flair feud in 94 was pretty humilating for Flair. I just watched Halloween Havoc 94, Hogan got 90% of the offense, no sold any leg work that Flair did, pinned him to end his career and then they went right into the Brutus turningon Hogan angle with Tenta debuting. The only person who sold the inportance of Flair's loss or put him over on the show was Bobby Heenan and he was basically told to shut up by Tony. Why FLair agreed to all the shit they put him through is beyond me. He jobbed in to Hogan in a strap match that he wasn't even in.

Does it really matter anymore? It was 18 years ago, I think it's time to move on.

I think the negative heat that he had was caused by him having the same gimmick for about 5 years, with virtually no evolution. he was the curly haired, crotch chopping hanger on as Syxx and then X-Pac. He never really changed even during the periods when DX was not a group and then he ended up in X Factor with Justin Credible and Albert. Now he was leading a group but largely using the same gimmick and the group sucked. And they had that horrible entrance music. He was just stale, very, very stale. People were sick of all the DX guys who didn't change with the business. Then they brought him back in nWo to play the same fucking character again, this time with short tights. X Pac rode the wave of being a good worker and having very powerful friends, but always played their lackey. He was over by association, the association stopped and he didn't do anything different.

Why? It could and should be argued that it was poor booking but by no means would jobbing to a former 4 time champion who could still go in the ring be humiliating. Especially since it was to a roll up as opposed to elbow drop, tune up the band, superkick. Had it beent he latter I could buy that it would be buryign him and a bit humiliating, but it wasn't. Jericho should have won clean with the Lionsault but that's not realistic given Shawn's penchant for not jobbing much and especially not on big shows.