RavishingRickRudo

Hmm. Look harder.

I'd say that the vast majority of deaf people have had speech problems. But of course there are exceptions, but then... HOW WOULD YOU KNOW HE'S DEAF HE IF SPOKE PROPERLY!!? That's why the WWE has their black wrestlers be all thugs, pastors, pimps, or guys who lust after white women - how else would you know they're black?

DAMN IT. DAMN YOUZE. I wanted to see the backlash~!

Most deaf people I know don't have good verbal ability. And most deaf people I know get terribly offended by anything related to deafness ("hard of hearing" is an offensive term, btw). So, if this is true, I'd really like to see how this turns out PR wise for the E. "Hey Catherine, look at this, a deaf wrestler in the WWE." "REALLY? Is he really deaf?!" "No." *various obscenities*

American pro wrestling has guys that supposedly "hate" each other one minute and then are cracking jokes together and complimenting each other at media events and in interviews the next. That *same thing* happens in MMA. Trigg will talk insane trash on Matt Hughes before the fight, then after it they'll be smiling with each other and hugging. This discussion has gotten derailed - the initial point was that UFC's presentation of its product is better than the WWE's. The WWE could easily present theirs in the same way as the UFC's and manage to sell PPV's based on it. The WWE doesn't have to run shows the way they are running shows - and a pro wrestling event can be put under an MMA (or boxing) format and be successful, even if the content isn't "real". There can be comparisons between MMA and Pro Wrestling because what is ultimately being sold -the matches- are the same. UFC chooses to take the serious, toned down route (though those Superbrawl informercials certainly aren't) while Pro Wrestling likes to go over-the-top with theatrics. PRIDE, meanwhile, is in between the two. I know you want to distance pro wrestling and MMA, because you're protective of MMA from being associated with "works", which is why there is some hate for PW from MMA fans. But, dude, lighten up. No one here believes the UFC works their matches, so if pro wrestling terminology gets attached to it that's just wrestling fans applying wrestling terms to other things. And a sleeper hold in professional wrestling isn't a choke in terms arm-across-throat. Chokes like that are illegal in professional wrestling. A sleeper is when you push your opponents head and chin down to their throat and putting pressure to the sides of the neck thus cutting off the blood and 02 to their brain and making them go to sleep - hmm... sounds familiar

They have a lot more experience than Mir by several decades, regardless what he may call something on commentary. If Dames had a problem with my post I'm sure he's capable or replying in kind. He is a grown man and runs this show for now, I didn't realise you felt the need to protect him seeing as if he really was offended he could easily ban my ass. It's very sweet of you though. I don't consider myself better than Dames, I was trying to start a discussion with him by expressing my views and asking a question about what he meant but I guess you chose to speak in his place. You knew full well what he meant - there wasn't any other occasion where any thing resembling a figure four was used in the match. Anyone with an ounce of deductive reasoning would have gotten that and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here. Your "question" was to single out -what in your mind was- a dumb comment by Dames. But it wasn't dumb, he was pretty spot on (besides the death part). And the intent certainly wasn't discussion. Mir talked about the figure four being illegal in amatuer wrestling, maybe he got it from there? BJJ doesn't have a monopoly on hold names, especially since amatuer wrestling predates it by a solid millenia Wrestling is not two guys fighting. It doesn't even pretend to be two guys fighting anymore in America. So they, like, dance??? "I'm going to kick your ass!!" gives off the impression of a fight, to me at least. As for MMA fans and practitioners being particular about the names of holds, that's because generally they prefer to call things by their correct names. I didn't know calling things what they actually are made such people who do so undesirable in your eyes. I guess it's ok to be wrong as long as your close enough in your estimation however seeing as a heel hook has a completely different effect on a leg and looks completely different but is still a leg submission, it's excusable. Let's just call powerbombs body slams and moonsaults senton bombs over in the wrestling folder while we're at it, who cares what they actually are? It's more akin to calling a moonsault a "backflip". Technically true, but that's not what most people call it. There are hardly any shooters in wrestling outside of maybe Regal and some of the guys that trained with the Harts. Obviously the same can't be said for Japan as I already noted due to the fact they have tried to keep a certain illusion of realism by incorporationg actual submissions. Hooking and shooting used to be part of the wrestling trade because it used to be real and started off over here in Britain in the 1800s with guys like Abraham Cann before it went further afield and eventually things became rigged for entertainment purposes in the mid 1900s. However wrestling as it was and pro wrestling and what it became are quite far removed. You can't compare someone like Matt Lindland to Rey Mysterio My original point was that mma and pro wrestling have been involved forever. If you define MMA as UFC 1993, which most people do, then that's true. Ken Shamrock was a wrestler before anything. Dan Severn was doing pro wrestling in UWF-i before beginning in MMA. Most Japanese MMA companies were started by wrestlers. Holds in Shooting and Hooking, which were taught from wrestler to wrestler, have also helped develop some of the MMA style. Despite Dana Whites efforts to separate MMA and Pro Wrestling, the most successful cards in MMA history were based on Pro Wrestling style storylines. If you want to define MMA as Vale Tudo, then I think that would make for a very interesting and enlightening discussion. Rey Mysterio Jr. and Matt Lindland both put on entertaining matches. The most exciting MMA matches -if you break it down- feature similar things as professional wrestling. Drama, Story, Technique, High Impact moves, Back-and-forth action. What do you get out of MMA? What makes you enjoy it? Because, to me, the only difference between MMA and Wrestling is MMA is more exciting because its real. The blood rushes faster, the heart pumps harder. But in the end, its still two guys fighting. Even if the WWE strays away from the competitive reasons for fighting and elaborates on more personal reasons for fighting, Backlash was sold on Batista vs. HHH having a fight.

I imagine, at this point in time, Vince would do it himself if it meant Bret would return.

They have just announced that Bret was offered a drink and he said yes. It is unknown at this time what the drink is, but it is suspected to be some sort of cola. Pepsi or Coke, perhaps.

I'd like to see that. But this site isn't the place for it - the main site is pretty much dead and I don't think you'd get from it what you'd want (whatever that would be). Don't let that stop you from doing (p)reviews, though. Bloggit.

I actually liked the "oneone111" thing. So, really, it's just one bad joke.

Why would you (a)have brets return on being a ref, during (b)the showdown between Hogan/HBK. That's such a waste. Hogan/HBK will draw some interest. Brets appearance will draw some interest. So why not maximize the potential draw and keep them separate? You could have HBK vs. Conway and still manage to draw a huge number with Bret being involved.

And so is a kickass trailer. JESUS that was good. That was, like, perfect. Damn. I want to see the movie again.

Bret Harts return to the WWE (all theory, here... he's had meetings with the WWE on numerous occasions mainly dealing with books and dvds, not storylines) is like the holy grail of booking. And I'm talking "Indiana Jones and the Last Cruisade" holy grail - as in if you make the wrong step, you end up with a spear in ya or something, or if you drink from the wrong cup you melt (ok, its been a while since I've seen it). It's such a sensitive issue where you can't just bring him out as a surprise - because you can make more money announcing it before hand. However if you DO announce it before hand, it will take away from the moment.

I like how JR said "Eric Bischoff hates John Cena because Cena won't kiss his ass" - as if Cena didn't FU Bischoff or anything.

Oh, and despite the fact that I argue with you guys a lot ( ), if we were to put up an MMA website it would kick ass.... for like a week...

You didn't answer my question. You just seek to deride my as being a nit picker. Sorry I know the difference between techniques and the appropriate names for them. I didn't answer your question because LT did. If you want me to elaborate, fine. A figure four represents the the shape of the move, not the what body part it concerns. Whatever connotation or common useage of the term doesn't deride from the fact that Dames was technically right. And guess what? Frank Mir used the term when commentating. You know, Frank Mir. He's sorta known to be a good jiu jitsu guy, UFC champion or something. Might, GASP, have more experience in this thing than you. But hey, since you don't use it in your dojo or gym or whereever the fuck you go that makes you think you can act like a total bitch to someone because you have a coloured belt and they don't. I can't stand the fact that here's a guy who is showing some enthusiasm in the sport who gets railed on because he didn't use a term that you use. Rather than saying "it's commonly known as a body triangle" or whatever sensitive term you used to help educate, you instead had to establish that, indeed, you know more than him and that he's apparently an idiot for showing interest. It's sad that the competitive spirit shown in MMA has transferred over to its fans where any opportunity to show that you're "better" than another is often taken. It's a pointless dick waving. A lot of MMA fans despise pro wrestling. However due to TUF now more wrestling fans like MMA. They may share fans, but to say MMA appeals to the same fanbase is not true. A lot of MMA fans don't know for care for Takada's previous wrestling history which led to PRIDE. If anything MMA appeals more to the same fanbase as other combat sports like kickboxing, sub grappling and boxing which is why K-1 runs both MMA and kickboxing shows and boxers like Tyson and Roy Jones Jr go to UFC. And guys like Undertaker, Bradshaw and Mick Foley go to UFC shows. Fact is, PRIDE has drawn tens of thousands more fans than the UFC on the foundation of pro wrestling. The WWE also draws tens of thousands more fans. I don't think the UFC has even broken the 20,000 fan attendance mark. Guess what? Going on MMA purists alone won't get the UFC off the ground. The appeal of pro wrestling and MMA *is* the same - two guys fighting. Now, a lot of wrestling fans like the theatrics of pro wrestling which they may not get in MMA, but there still is a sizable crossover to consider and certainly not dismiss. And MMA fans might not like the theatrics of pro wrestling. The MMA fans that *do* _hate_ pro wrestling are probably the same dumbasses who cry "work" once after every PRIDE show. They're probably the same irrational, insecure, cocksuckers who gets upset when someone calls a kneebar and heel hook or a triangle a figure four. Rogan may also be cookie cutter at times, but if he notes something in his commentary generally he will ask the fighter about it also ("You looked in trouble there when he had the choke, how did you come back like that?). Didn't Kasem do that as well? I'm not advocating her return or anything like that, I just think that she didn't suck at it. Pro wrestling and MMA became connected due to Satoru Sayama. Brazilian Vale Tudo fights had been going on for decades before Shooto came about. Hooking and Shooting have been tricks of the wrestling trade for at least a century. Karl Gotch helped train several influencial figures in MMA back in the 70's. Inoki set up a number of vs. Judo, vs. Boxing, vs. Wrestling matches in the 70's as well.

I have been training in BJJ/sub grappling for 3 years now and in my experience a triangle and figure four are not the same thing. A triangle is generally a reference to the choke, a body triangle is the same leg positioning applied to the waist. The only times I have heard a figure four referenced in grappling is in regards to the arm position setting up a kimura on a few Bas Rutten instructionals and some early smaller MMA shows. If you have any fights, shows or instructionals where the body triangle or triangle choke has been referred to as a figure four I'd be interested in digging them up. This is quite possibly the most needless nitpick I have read in my time posting about MMA here - and this forum has a pretty good reputation in my eyes for nitpickery. It's the equivalent of "Treker" and "Trekie". The UFC is a sport that wants to be taken seriously. WWE is sports entertainment which is near impossible to be taken seriously. It's not a valid comparison in my estimation. They appeal to a similar fanbase - given the ratings success of UFC shows following Monday Night Raw. The product is also similar - the concept being two guys fighting each other. Only, in wrestling, it's predetermined. The WWE could choose to have their matches look exactly like a UFC fight. Raw and Unleashed serve the same purpose - to bring attention to bigger shows (RAW does it for WWE PPV's, Unleashed does it for Ultimate Fight Night and UFC PPVs). In the end, what sells the shows for the UFC and the WWE -the matches- are not only similar, but EXACT. The big differing point between the two is how the WWE presents its product and its wrestlers and how the UFC presents their product and their wrestlers. The UFC's simplier approach -which could easily be adapted for the WWE- is, while not perfect, the superior one. My girlfriend wanted to kick the TV when watching UFC with me when Kerri kept saying the exact same thing to every single fighter. She maybe be hot but after the exact same "so how do you feel?" "talk us through this" four times in a row even I was like "For fucks sake, ask something else!" Which is different from what Rogan or Osbourne or Bennett or that weird guy in the dark period or anyone else did, how? Kasem didn't insult the fighters, she didn't flub her lines, she looked comfortable in the octagon, she appeared to have some grasp on fighting and used some of the terms - even if she wasn't an expert - .... she wasn't bad. If the worst thing that can be said about her is that she kept using cliches, which she was most likely told to do, I don't see how that's enough to warrant the hate she has been getting. I really don't care about Dames leaving the site or not so that has no bearing on my reply. The guy has been on past boards I've modded and vice versa so I really don't view him in a different light simply because of his admin status. Mike's pretty much been running the show for a while anyway, the site was even taken over by Mike previously only for Dames to ask his way back a few months ago after an extended absence. The only difference now is he is now going on his own terms rather than having his position taken off him while he's gone. I have no malice towards the guy buy I do think trying to compare sports entertainment to an entertaining sport is tenuous at best and as such chose to reply with my own opinion. Wrestling and MMA have been connected forever.

Have I mentioned how much I love Unleashed??? August 8th - Monday, 11:05 PM ET Unleashed - Spike TV Chuck Liddell vs. Tito Ortiz Chuck Liddell vs. Vernon White (~!!!) Randy Couture vs. Pedro Rizzo 1 (~!!!!!) August 15th - 11:05 PM ET Unleashed - Spike TV Matt Hughes vs. Frank Trigg 1 (~!) Matt Hughes vs. Frank Trigg 2 (~!) Rich Franklin vs. Evan Tanner 1 (haven't seen this since it aired... ~!!!!)

Have I mentioned how much I love Unleashed??? August 8th - Monday, 11:05 PM ET Unleashed - Spike TV Chuck Liddell vs. Tito Ortiz Chuck Liddell vs. Vernon White (~!!!) Randy Couture vs. Pedro Rizzo 1 (~!!!!!) August 15th - 11:05 PM ET Unleashed - Spike TV Matt Hughes vs. Frank Trigg 1 (~!) Matt Hughes vs. Frank Trigg 2 (~!) Rich Franklin vs. Evan Tanner 1 (haven't seen this since it aired... ~!!!!)

A fighter has to intelligently defend himself - which means Thacker would have to try grab and control Lebens hands with his own to prevent getting punched, or wrap his arms around Lebens body as to prevent Leben from getting enough momentum on the punches, or try to move his head and body enough to avoid taking the majority of the punishment. Just covering up and blocking isn't sufficient, and he wasn't even doing that. He was flailing around on the ground like a fish on the floor of a boat, it was clear that he had nothing to defend himself with. This is something that can be hard to get used to for some, since in boxing a fighters' brainmatter will have to be expelled from their nose before a ref will stop the fight, while in the UFC if the fight is progressing in a way that will only lead to one fighter getting severely hurt, they'll stop the fight. The UFC has to rebuild its image and wants to be recognized as a legitimate sport, which means it has to be relatively "safe" or at the very least "protected" as not to give their detractors any ammunition. They are by no means consistant, as there have been times where I disagreed with them stopping the fight and there are times when I have said "OH COME ON AND STOP IT!!" - it's a fine balance, but they don't seem to be improving and yet they keep the same refs (Dean, Mazigatti, and Yamazaki in particular). It should also be noted that they usually allow for things to play out in title fights and big matches than prelims.

So I've downloaded and watched the first four episodes of Season 4. Here are my thoughts: - RORY CUT HER HAIR! WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME??!! GOD I HATE CHANGE. - Paris as her roomie, though I saw it coming, was still great. - The strange roomate is a welcome addition, I hope it lasts. - The naked guy is such a poor love interest for Rory. - The dude from the show that had Jennifer Grey in it and was desperately trying to be like Seinfeld except being set in LA instead of NY wants to be Richards' partner. I am CONFLICTED. - Sookie has lost weight. GAH more change! - Michel has hair. .... Let me tell you all something about me. I hate change. When they change some of the clips in the opening credits I get disoriented and then I have to adjust. I STILL HAVEN'T ADJUSTED TO SEASON 3 CHANGES. I like Season 2 - why can't it be like Season 2? This is all wrong. ALL WRONG. I sweartagad, if they change for season 5 I will be mighty peeved. - Despite the changes, the show still has its charm and has done a good job easing me into what I had thought were show-killing moves.

Ouch, Dames announces his resignation from unfuckwitability and now the vultures are circling A triangle is commonly referred to as a figure 4... for the same reason - they are discriptive titles as they reflect the shape of the move. I'm pretty sure you know that, however my sarcasm meter hasn't detected enough to start ringing the alarms. Why would a company want to bury its paid performers and limit their ability to make you money? The WWE still does it, which I believe was the point being made and how the UFC is better in that regard. I don't mind Rogan editorializing, even if I disagree with him on occasion. The armbar finish was called the finish because it was the finish of the match. I saw Kerri Kasem on an episode of the ben stiller show, I scored huge obsure reference points for it among those I was watching with. I didn't think she was bad when she did the post-fights, she just wasn't great. If you don't like "how do you feel" then by all means, don't watch Freedom Fight 2005

Chris Masters will gain a following by Fall. Guaranteed.

Matt should show a sex tape of him bedding Edges ex, and then someone else is in bed and it turns out to be Edges mom, or sister, or something. Something especially cold.

You want it in the back of the head, or do you want to see it coming?