RavishingRickRudo

I watch much less wrestling than I did 1 year ago, and 1 year ago I watched much less wrestling than I did a year before that, and a year before that, etc. Before I used to watch _everything_, even the C shows. Now, I only watch Velocity when there's an Akio/London match, I don't watch Heat, and Smackdown has completely left my mind on Thursday nights. RAW is the only thing I watch, and I watch MAYBE half of it. I went from watching well over 10 hours a week to watching 1 hour a week. And I am a pretty "hardcore" fan.

Live Event Attendance and Buyrates are _still_ going DOWN. They are the two biggest economic indicators because they show what the fans are willing to _pay_ for.

See, the fans couldn't possibly have found out on the internet that Brock was leaving, it was pretty clear that everyone that night in MSG saw Brocks lack of passion and chanted "you sold out" (as people with no passion do) and "hey hey hey, goodbye" (they were mocking him, because he said goodbye to his passion).

Will needs to get shot for this. Like, stage a drive-by shooting as if Eminem was so mad at the hardcoreness of the track that he had to have Big Willie killed. And, like, Will gets shot 12 times and still survives. It would sell billions of albums based on that alone.

HEY, I watched a full episode tonight for the first time after watching bits and pieces over the past few years. I liked it. There's way too much grey in it though.

The talent pool now-a-days, especially in relation to what the WWE wants, isn't nearly as big as it was in the mid-90's and the early 80's. The territorial system was much more developed back then and there was a chance for wrestlers to get to develop personality and work on promos, and today there is much more focus on ring-work and less on the details. The industry isn't the same as it was when the WWE recovered in the late 90's, or when it boomed in the 80's; it is in much worse shape, and that means it will be much harder for the WWE to succeed again. And before, WCW was the one who started the boom and the WWE caught some lucky bounces and capitalized; they don't have that luxury now. It's up to them and only them, and with this attitude of "ebb and flow", things don't look good for them to impove and take matters into their own hands. They are just sitting around and waiting, assuming that their fan base will wait with them.

I actually really enjoyed UFC 45, likely because I heard it was a horrible show and it turned out to be good. I didn't find Ricco/Rizzo offensive, so take that as you will. Tank vs. Cabbage was pretty good, Hughes vs. Trigg was good, Lytle vs. Lawler was really good, Tanner vs. Baroni was good. I really enjoyed the legends ceremoy and as a Royce Gracaie mark thought it was fantastic.

Well if you don't expect it, they certainly won't bother trying to give it to you. It actually sounds like you are proud of this distinction.

Thinking that your customer base will always be there is the wrong kind of thinking. In a business sense, in a wrestling sense, in every sense. I can guarantee you there have been people who thought they would "always" be wrestling fans and have stopped. Everyone has their breaking points and it's just a matter of time.

When McMahon talks about the entertainment industry going up and down, what is really happening is 10% (at most) changes one way or another. The WWE has had 50%+ changes. That McMahon is even comparing the two shows how out of it he is.

Just because "it's the way it's gone" doesn't mean it's the way it has to be. What you are talking about, simply put, is complacency - which would is death to a company.

And the "ebb and flow" kind of thought does not lend itself well to actually recovering. If you think "well, it's bound to happen sometime" then risks won't be taken, the needed changes won't be made. The WWE, invariably, will have to *make* the change, because it won't be given to them. And as has been shown over the past 4 years, they don't know how to do that. There will be a point in our TV culture where something light and fluffy like wrestling will be desired because there is a natural tendancy to reject the current trends after oversaturation (the hour long dramas like CSI and LOST) and go towards the opposite, but whether or not it will be wrestling is not guaranteed.

I think the second Kane and Batista went face to face during the battle royale wheneverthefuckthatwas, Vince marked for the pop and decided to push Batista. Because, honestly, that's when Batistas push began.

Fuck yeah.

Does anyone believe deep down inside that justcoz works for the WWE? Vince is insanely out-of-touch.

I think if Benjamin ended up causing Benoit to lose the ladder match, it would be a great way to kick of a feud between the two. Like, Benjamin has nothing to lose in the ladder match, because he's already the IC champ, while if Benoit loses it may take another 20 years for him to get another chance to take the title and he simply doesn't have that time left. So if Benjamin sacrifices himself to cost Benoit the match, it would be really cool incentive for Benoit to want to kick Benjamins ass. On the following Raw: *Benoit comes out to the ring* Benoit: BENJAAAAAAAAMIIIIIN!!!!!!!!! SHELDON BENJAAAAAAAMIIIIN!!! You have some explaining to do, so get your ass down here and meet me face to face. *Benjamin comes out* Benoit: Last night at Wrestlemania, you cost me the ladder match. You cost me an opportunity to once again become World Champion. Your goal last night was not to get that opportunity, it was to stop me from getting it. And I want to know WHY? Benjamin: Well, Chris. A few weeks ago on RAW you and I had a match and you made me tap out. Since then, I've been wanting to get another shot in the ring with you. To prove to myself that I am just as good, if not better than you. But if you won that match, and then won the title, I wouldn't get that shot. I don't have any interests in the world title Chris, not right now anyways. I'm the Intercontinental Champion - the same belt that Bret Hart, Mr Perfect, Shawn Michaels, Ricky Steamboat, Randy Savage, and even yourself have had, and I plan on being a better champion than them, and a better champion than you. And to do that, I definitely need to face the best competition possible, and I certainly need to beat you. Benoit: Oh, so that's it. You're looking to "test" yourself. Benjamin: Yeah, I- Benoit: WELL THIS IS NOT A TEST! THIS IS REAL! THIS IS MY LIFE! THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING FOR ALMOST 20 DAMN YEARS! And you think you can just play around with MY career, that you can dictate MY FATE?! Be careful what you wish for Benjamin, because now you have my full and undivided attention. You want to prove yourself, to prove that you can beat me? Well, I will prove you wrong! *Benoit drops the mic* *Benjamin drops his mic* *They go head to head* Benjamin: Is that so? Benoit: YEAH. *Benjamin pushes Benoit* *Security runs in and pulls them apart before anything can get started*

Yeah, that's it.

Joe Schmoe 1 -the successful one- was on Tuesdays and its audience grew because the show was actually good. Spike acquiring CSI has more to do with it being in the Viacom family which also airs and produces CSI on CBS, and owns King World, and not-to-mention gives the company the leverage and capital to pursue things like the rights to CSI. Raw initially allowed TNN to get a boost in ratings, but I don't see how it has necessarily helped the network considering that the WWE itself has fallen so much in the past few years. It's not exactly a "crown-jewel" type show that provides value for a network that, say, rights to air certain sports do. It is worthless? No. But I don't think its as valuable as the WWE wants it to be. And in terms of the WWE and UFC, there are many possibilities for making money for the WWE through cross-promotion.

From mediaweek about SPIKEtvs new runner ... http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/search/article...t_id=1000798528

http://s3.invisionfree.com/New_Millennium_...p?showtopic=223 I am protesting the creation of this thread. Holly sucks at the hot tag. That's my last contribution...

In terms of single ratings, of course it was the most successful show on the network, I am not denying that, however it's success didn't translate over into anything else on the network because that's how wrestling fans are. The only thing I can think of is The Ultimate Fighter. The reason for TUF's success has yet to be determined, but the positioning is right because its something that can interest a wrestling fan on a wrestling level (and it would be much more successful if the WWE promoted it on their shows, but they won't because Vince - in his limited wisdom- sees it as a threat), which is generally the problem with most things the WWE advertises - its not on a wrestling level. They can sell wrestling video games because it has to do with wrestling, they can sell wrestling dvds because it has to do with wrestling. They have a much harder time selling non-wrestling games, and non-wrestling videos because that's not what wrestling fans are looking for. The WWE is an ideal company to advertise with because it has so many marketing venues, but because of their and their fans' nature, it's not worth pursuing because the returns aren't there. CSI did more _for the network_ than the WWE did and is largely credited with Spikes success, btw. In the SpikeTV universe, the WWE is not the sun where every other thing revolves around. It's just a planet with one or two moons floating around it.

...Along with Stripperella, Star Trek, CSI, Joe Schmoe, Baywatch, Funkmaster Flex, a ton of old 80s shows, etc. etc. etc. The WWE wasn't a corner stone in their rebranding, it was one of many. It didn't get as much promotion as CSI or Star Trek did when Spike got the rights to air those shows, or Stripperella for that matter. The only cornerstone the WWE is/was to Spike is in their "Slammin Saturday Nights".

Mmm. Fedor and Hoost... SC, your best buy is so much better than mine. 43, 44, and 49 are IMO in the top 10 of UFC shows. What was featured on the UFC 49 DVD???

What did the WWE do for them? I haven't really seen any effects on the network aside from more people watching Monday nights between 9-11. Any turn-around in the network can be attributed to the rebranding from "We Got Pop" and "TNN" and into "The Network for Men" and "SPIKE". Getting CSI was probably bigger the network than the WWE. I just think with Spike, they often take one step forward and then move 3 steps back. I don't think they have a clearly defined target market. They are very broadly targeting males 18-45, which means they have shows like CSI, and then they have shows like BOOM!. They have the Star Treks, and then they have Car and Driver. They are trying all these different trends and niches and its counter-productive. They are throwing shit at the wall and see what sticks, and that's not good for a network. TBS, I think, has better redefined itself because they are way more consistent with their programming. Spike needs to pick a more focused theme and go with it. Maybe they have and the WWE does not belong there.

See, Backlund is now in the WON HOF so Meltzer has changed his tune and now Bob was a mega star in the 80s and its absurd not to let him in.