Kamala had to duck out for the weekend, so in the interest of fairness, I will be posting the PPV Roundtable...today...in this very thread.
Our participants this week are (in no particular order):
King Kamala Classic, our moderator emeritus, even if he did forget that he was our moderator during the chat.
DrVenkman PhD, our resident 24/7 fanatic that moonlights as a panhandler on nightshift. Fun fact!
Hunter's Torn Quad, longtime moderator of the wrestling folders. His "in-depth knowledge of wrestling especially on the historical side is amazing."
bps21, the guy that single-handedly kept the TNA folder afloat for a couple of weeks, and The Truthiness' best friend.
and me, Dandy, your guest PPV Roundtable editor/poster.
I had to fight the temptation to "George Lucas" all of Venkman's comments and "Sam Beckett" all of my own. However, I will not be putting right what once went wrong, and there will be no revisionism of the god Dr.'s thoughts. You win this round, Venkman.
And awaaaaay we GO!
Women’s Title Matches
King Kamala Classic: Let's talk about the women's matches first
Hunter's Torn Quad: Raw Women's Match will be fine and unassuming. I'll go with Katie Lea in an upset in about seven minutes SD's Diva Title will be short and, depending on who X is, could be real bad. If it's McCool, it'll be so-so at best. Natalya wins with help from Victoria
bps21: You know...it's kinda funny. they seem to have this renewed push of the women...and yet I don't care about these matches. A few weeks ago I was all about the Women's wrestling on both shows. What the hell happened?
DrVenkman PhD: Lack of Beth Phoenix is what happened.
bps21: Anyway...I'll pick Natalya to win and I guess Mickie James. No reasons...I can see anyone winning either .Good action...but got to be short with the number of matches
DrVenkman PhD: It's good that they're pushing a new person in Katie, but I feel Beth (my personal favourite) got a great push as a strong champion, then had a good short feud with Melina... and now is doing nothing. Sad. I wasn't big on Katie at first but she actually seemed pretty good in a 2 on 1 handicap match against Super Crazy that was taped for Heat back in May, so I hope she wins. Should be a good match if they're both working and not botching spots. As for SD!, I don't think it really matters. Should be fine, I assume Natalya wins and Michelle chases.
Dandy: I agree with bps on the fact that the Women's division was gearing up and seems to have deflated. I also agree that Beth Phoenix not being the champ has led to that.
Hunter's Torn Quad: Beth was the heart and soul of the division; as long as she was involved in the feud, it didn't really matter who she faced because she made it good
Dandy: However, I see the draft helping define these two divisions a little better. Mickie will retain in a good match here so Beth can take the title back from her. Beth needs to be the champ with others chasing, not vice versa. Over on SD, I expect McCool to pick up the win and be the first ever champ so Nattie can chase her.
King Kamala Classic: Alright, I see Natalaya taking the Divas title or whatever it's called over McCool. It'll be an average women's match, short and inoffensive. Like Dandy, I think Mickie is going to retain in a solid match Like Dandy, I also think they're setting up another Beth-Mickie tussle. Sorry for the lack of creative response but I really don't have one and I'm distracted with the All Time Wrestling Roster draft
WWE U.S. title match: Matt Hardy © Vs Chavo Guerrero Jr
Hunter's Torn Quad: The burial of ECW continues, under the guise of getting the US title back to SD,with Chavo winning clean It'll be good, around ***, but with Chavo involved, nobody will give a damn
bps21: Why does Chavo keep getting shots at titles? He's a joke who gets wiped out by whoever Edge is facing in seconds. And yet...here he is in another title program.
Hunter's Torn Quad: He has good matches, but isn't a threat to anyone because nobody cares about him and they never will
bps21: I pick Matt Hardy I guess. Decent match. It seems like this whole ppv is just on hold in my mind since the draft was the week before it. I hate Chavo.
Dandy: Chavo is on ECW just like Hardy, so the belt is staying there for the time being.
DrVenkman PhD: This is kind of bizarre because Cha...
Hunter's Torn Quad: Chavo is on ECW?
DrVenkman PhD: According to his shirt on Raw, yes.
Hunter's Torn Quad: I guess that's what happens when the two rosters intermix so much. I see him on SD so much
DrVenkman PhD: I think when you win the ECW title, you become ECW. Like Kane never officially went there, he just won the title.
bps21: It's like a curse
Hunter's Torn Quad: I see him on SD so much and he's such a complete non-entity when not leeching heat and prescence off of Edge and Vickie, that it never really sunk in he was with ECW
Dandy: So, I think that SD may have their secondary title, which has been needed even though they have a small roster, and wither the IC title is going to be won by someone on SD, or a new belt will be created or brought back. Anyway, Hardy needs to win this and establish the belt on ECW. Chavo has plenty to do right now with La Familia, so the belt is unnecessary for him. Hardy could make the belt mean something on ECW if he defends it weekly in good matches.
DrVenkman PhD: Chavo vs. Matt should be a fine match. A match worthy of the top of the hour slot on SmackDown! But I think it might not work as well for the live crowd on PPV because, well, it's Chavo. Unless he wheels out Vickie, then he'll have nuclear heat. Since their both apparently in ECW, no reason for Chavo to "steal" the belt back for SmackDown. Hardy retains.
King Kamala Classic: It should be a fun match. Not a MOTY candidate (or MOTN for tht matter) but a solid match. I bet it'll be the opener cause that's the only way they might get heat for a Chavo match. I just feel bad for Chavo at this point. His heart doesn't seem to be into wrestling and it hasn't been for quite some time (even a little bit before Eddie's death) I loved his work in WCW (you will find no bigger fan of his Cruiserweight title run in early '01 than I) but like I said earlier, I can't remember any really memorable non Eddie related moments he's been involved in WWE. Anyway, I think Hardy takes it in 12 minutes and Chavo continues to be Edge's cannon fodder.
WWE Tag Team titles match: Miz and Morrison © Vs Finlay and Hornswoggle
Hunter's Torn Quad: I’d like to see the champs retain retain, because they're relatively over and make good heel champs. But because of the need of comedy that nobody finds funny, at least not for more than one minute, we'll see a terrible match with terrible jokes and Hornswoggle will pin The Miz. Good heel champions get flushed down the drain for a midget that is fine for opening match comedy, but shouldn't be near anything that is, in theory meant to mean something at the gate Or in the ratings Seven minutes and *, if that
bps21: There is nothing left even the slightest bit interesting for Hornswoggle to do. He's dragging Finlay down with him (he used a fucking super soaker on the champs people). So why not put them in a title match?
King Kamala Classic: thing is they already put him in a title match last year and it worked SO WELL!
bps21: My head says that they can't put the title on them...but they just got drafted over to ECW today so no matter what this isn't over...and now I think they're going to win. Terrible use of the champs who have been really entertaining and deserve far better. Bad comedy match. I'll pick a terrible title switch. And this show isn't looking so good so far.
DrVenkman PhD: I'll probably lose my roundtable card for this but I thought the Stunner the midget did on Raw was amusing.
King Kamala Classic: GET THE FUCK OUT!
DrVenkman PhD: That doesn't mean he should be a tag champ though. I assumed they HAD to win just to get the belst on SmackDown, but now everyone in the match is on ECW... So, ideally, we'll see Finlay be in the ring the entire match and have a good go with Morrison and Miz, make a "hot tag" to Hornswoggle, but then they lose anyway.Hey, maybe Finlay can even get pissed at his son! I really don't know what the future of any of this holds or if this can be blamed on Jimmy Wang, but I'll assume the heels retain
King Kamala Classic: the only thing left to do at this point with Hornswoggle is Finlay Vs Hornswoggle really
Dandy: It's time for Fantasy Booking 101 with Dandy. Miz and Morrison have been great, but they are needed for singles on ECW So is Finlay. How do we get to that point? Take the comedy away from Hornswaggle and make it the obvious achille's heel of Finlay. Finlay has to wrestle twice as hard and wins the tag belts for the team. During defenses, Finlay keeps having to carry the team and eventually realizes that his son is a liability and gets rid of him, turning heel in the process. Dreamer and Delany can be your face champs, or the belts can be put back on SD. Finlay, Miz and Morrison are all singles and the "comedy" from Hornswaggle is gone. He can be a tag manager. Problem solved.
King Kamala Classic: I try to be an optimist with WWE but this match is going to be terrible And I hate what they've done with Finlay. There's no wrestler I was marking harder for in '06 than he. I guess in a way it's better that he's doing a stupid comedy gimmick since he's older and shouldn't be doing superstiff matches. But this whole Hornswoggle thing is way past overplayed. Like the sound effects guy in Police Academy,A little bit of midget wrestling goes a long way with me I think Finlay and Hornswoggle take the tag team titles after some wacky shenanigans. Hornswoggle somehow gets the cover. but Miz and Morrison will eventually win them back and win the feud They're too good of a team to lose a feud to a comedy act
DrVenkman PhD: It's funny that ECW draws low ratings, got buried in the draft (and probably rightfully so - but that's speaking as a Canadian), yet they seem on track to have 3 titles after
bps21: They're too good a of a team to be booked against a comedy act
DrVenkman PhD: Despite the fact Miz was a comedy act.
King Kamala Classic: Comedy acts, unless they're really really good, don't belong on PPVs period
DrVenkman PhD: I think he was eliminated from the Rumble by Hornswoggle.
bps21: I don't even remember Miz before he turned it up and got awesome
Dandy: Miz was horrible HOORAH!
World Tag Team titles match: Rhodes and Holly © Vs Ted DiBiase and mystery partner
Hunter's Torn Quad: Boy, this one is hard to pick(!) ): Ted DiBiase and Mr X beat The Heatless Ones in a short match that nobody will care about. It'll be short, not sweet, and nobody will care or remember about it within seconds of the pinfall being registered
DrVenkman PhD: It's worth noting that according to the Observer, Gerwitz proposed DiBiase buying a draft pick but it was turned down.
Hunter's Torn Quad: Yeah, I read that too
DrVenkman PhD: I think that meant Ted Sr. though.
Hunter's Torn Quad: No, the new Ted; his official name is Ted DiBiase
Hunter's Torn Quad: Apparently, Vince doesn't like the 'Jr' tag
DrVenkman PhD: Yeah but I thought Meltz still called him Jr.
King Kamala Classic: WWE.com has him listed as Ted DiBiase
DrVenkman PhD: KKC: Vince HATED being known as Jr. so no one else gets saddled with it too.
bps21: Dammit. I don't know who DiBiase's partner is going to be. I thought I'd read DH Smith...but he just went to Smackdown. I find new people interesting...but I don't know what they do after this.
bps21: Match will be 3 minutes long...cause all Holly/Rhodes matches are 3 minutes long. New Champs...there's no way to really know how it will go...so that's a KIND of interesting, right?
DrVenkman PhD: They could go a few different ways for this.
Hunter's Torn Quad: Any interest and heat for this match depends on who the partner is
DrVenkman PhD: If they continue with the rumoured DH Smith plan, that might somehow get the belts over to SmackDown. In some convoluted manner. Anyway, I felt from the beginning it was going to be some weird angle where it ended up Cody/Holly vs. Ted/Cody.
bps21: I'm still all for that
DrVenkman PhD: And I still think that's how it's going to go, with Cody getting two tag title reigns out of the situation.
King Kamala Classic: as am I
DrVenkman PhD: The match will be nothing more than a debut angle / title switch / heel turn, so it won't be anything in the ring but could be an interesting development.
Dandy: Okay, this is no mystery: Dibiase is winning. Either Cody is the mystery partner and turns on Holly when Holly FINALLY goes for that hot tag to Cody (a la Flair back in the day), or he assists Ted and the mystery partner in getting the win and we have our first three in the stable. No matter what, they should start the match without the mystery guy present, to add intrigue or plant a red herring.
King Kamala Classic: Does IRS have a kid that wrestles?
Dandy: He plays football. They might have him in 3 years or so.
King Kamala Classic: I imagine Cody will pull a Rick Martel on Holly and DiBiase and mystery partner will retain. Seriously though, how awesome would a new Money Inc be? You could play off the whole My Super Sweet 16/The Hills loathable trust fund brat thing
DrVenkman PhD: His son's name is Wyndham, btw.
King Kamala Classic: Anyways The Million Dollar Kid reminds me a lot of Randy Orton back when he debuted. He might be good in a couple years but he's several years from being ready
DrVenkman PhD: Hey! What is IRS himself is DiBiase's partner?
King Kamala Classic: I would mark so hard
WWE Intercontinental title match: Chris Jericho © Vs mystery man
Hunter's Torn Quad: It depends on the challenger. It'll probably be Michaels, and if it is, I expect a hot match with a non-finish to keep the feud going. That being the case, thirteen minutes and ***1/2. Otherwise, Jericho retains. Clean, against whoever he faces
bps21: hmm...On one hand I think they'd be retarded to put HBK/Jericho on without advertising it, especially with how good the angles have been... But they could always get away with HBK just coming out to beat the crap out of him and losing due to his injuries (I can't see him being IC champion) But no one really makes sense. Jeff Hardy is on Smackdown now...CM Punk is a jobber who just got to Raw and doesn't have a reason... Maybe he'll just lie down for Cade to get the belt out of the HBK feud and let Cade be champ. But then...he said he was going to be a fighting champion and he hasn't defended it since the week he said that so I don't know
DrVenkman PhD: I'd love to see his opponent by Mystery Man, decked out in a mask and what not. He can be called "Mystery Man" and everything. Sorry I've been reading back issues of F4W and I'm at January 2001. That crazy WCW... While I don't think it will end up being Road Warrior Animal, last years NOC did have some "Legends" focus with Snuka, Slaughter, Martel, and Garea appearing. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Piper vs. Jericho is going down this Sunday. And it will suck. But nostalgia is fun, I guess. Oh obviously Jericho would retain.
Dandy: It shouldn't be HBK. My idea had someone from SD challenging for the belt, and I figured it would be Gregory Helms or Jeff Hardy. HBK runs in, Jericho loses the belt and it is now on SD.
King Kamala Classic: I'm going to make a completely dark horse and absurd prediction and say CM Punk is the mystery challenger and wins the WWE IC title with interference from HBK
ECW World title match: Kane © Vs The Big Show Vs Mark Henry
bps21: FUCK THE ECW TITLE. Worst. Title. Ever.
Hunter's Torn Quad: Mizzark wins to keep the belt in ECW. He'll pin Kane after Show does something. Eight minutes and **
King Kamala Classic: sadly, more people are interested in that than half of the matches. People love to see fat and/or tall guys goin’ at it!
bps21: Henry wins. Pins Kane. Terrible match. I just can't find anyway to care. Although I'll be kinda happy for Henry who's been in the company for like...12 years and has had like...what? A euro title win? Other than that...Fuck the ECW title. I never thought I'd long for the days of Chavo as Champion...but Kane needs to go.
DrVenkman PhD: I'm not sure if Henry being added to the match helps it by giving it a third person and in theory less spots for Kane and Show to rest or have 5 minute chokeholds Or hinders it by virture of him being Mark Henry. But at the end of the day, it probably won't be anything worth watching and I guarantee the people I have over will go for a smoke outside. Henry wins to bring the title back to ECW.
Dandy: Henry is definitely winning, although it is now obvious...WWE could do something stupid. I will still pick Henry, and say that Show takes Kane out with a move and Henry takes Show out simultaneously. Henry goes on to become a dominating ECW champ for a few months.
DrVenkman PhD: "with Mark Henry, and with Henry headed to ECW full-time, they certainly want you to believe he's winning it"
King Kamala Classic: Anyways I think Henry has to take it. The match will be slightly better than expected (but not good by any stretch of imagination) and will go about nine minutes. I don't know where Show or Kane go after this.
DrVenkman PhD: Show feuds with Umaga, Kane feuds with Burchill. Since Burchill just lost his feud.
bps21: Does anyone else really hate Kane or is it just me?
DrVenkman PhD: I think he works hard for a big man.
bps21: After all the time he's been around I never cared one way or the other...and now I want to turn the channel.
DrVenkman PhD: But he needs good opponents.
King Kamala Classic: I kind of like him
bps21: That's the thing...I don't think he's very good. He had a pretty good match with Punk the other week...other than that I can't remember the last time I didn't just hate him
King Kamala Classic: I think he's one of those guys that's only as good as his opponent
bps21: I also hate Chavo. Those are the two people I can't stand. Kane and Chavo
King Kamala Classic: I can't truly hate Chavo thanks to some of his WCW stuff but I'm filled with apathy at most everything he's done in WWE.
bps21: That was a very very long time ago.
Hunter's Torn Quad: Does anyone really care about Chavo?
King Kamala Classic: doesn't Truthiness like him?
bps21: someone in booking does
WWE title match: Edge © Vs Batista
Hunter's Torn Quad: It depends on whether the brands are swapping titles. I can see the WHC title staying on SD with Cena regaining the WWE title to keep it on Raw. I can't see Batista taking the WHC title to Raw and Hunter taking the WWE title to Smackdown, if only because it eliminates Hunter's title chase, which is his best role I see a finish where Batista is just about to win, but Vickie or Edge does something to screw him over, knowing he can't get a rematch. It'll be fifteen minutes or so and will be their usual good match. Edge retains, but probably via screw job in a ***+ match
bps21: Well...I figure that one of the titles has to switch...and it should be the one that goes on last...which means not this one. This match doesn't have the build for a title change and Edge JUST got it back. It would make no sense for him to go back to the exact same role (chasing as a heel with Vickie making it easy for him) he was just in. Edge retains through nefarious means in a good match.
DrVenkman PhD: It should be a good match but I'm happy to see Batista moving on to new things on Raw. Something I didn't really see emphasized about his move is he's now on the same brand as HBK so we'll see what happens down the road. If anything.
DrVenkman PhD: I've already said that for irrational reasons I don't like the idea of the "fake" world title being on Raw, so I hope it's the WWE title that goes back to Raw. Edge should retain here
Dandy: Originally, I figured that Batista winning the belt would be the best thing, but I changed my mind. The titles need to be split evenly amongst the shows, and I figure that Edge needs to keep the belt for the time being due to the wedding coming up, La Familia just getting going, etc. Edge wins in his usual way as others have mentioned, but Batista is made to look strong. Batista moves on to get back in the HBK feud, and Edge has some fresh challengers to deal with on SD.
King Kamala Classic: Anyways, Edge goes over in a screwy fashion but Batista ends up looking strong and probably clears La Familia out of the ring after the match. I was originally going to have Batista going over with Triple H retaining in the main event but Batista being the #1 guy on the flagship show seems weird
bps21: coughCenacough. It wouldn't matter who the champ is just like HHH
WWE title match: Triple H © Vs John Cena
Hunter's Torn Quad: Now this will have some serious heat The main event will feature a title change, I think Cena vs. Hunter will have major heat. It'll be good/very good, probably just under ****. Lots of near falls and such, ending with Cena reversing the pedigree into the FU for the clean win in seventeen minutes
bps21: I see the title going to Cena...but they need everyone to be strong coming out. One guy will be champion...and the other the top face on the other show I'll go with Edge costing HHH the match and saying that they're can only be one champion on Smackdown, and it's him. Just so they don't have to go out clean. Match should be really good and the crowd should be into it. I expect Cena to be booed...alot.
DrVenkman PhD: Edge costing HHH the match for the title reason sounds likely and logical. Can't really say much more than has already been said - should be a fine match, good crowd heat, etc. It's odd because if it goes the way we're predicting, HHH wouldn't have got his win back, and he's been owed that win for two WrestleMania's now. But I guess he can keep waiting.
Dandy: Very competitive match with amazing heat.
bps21: Neither guy is going anywhere for a long time. I think H will get that win back at a future WrestleMania.
Dandy: Expect the match to get the boxing style intros. They have a long feeling out process and a standoff after trading moves.After a looong match that goes back and forth, Cena gets a pinfall. I am thinking perhaps they are trading moves and an FU out of nowhere gets the pin.
King Kamala Classic: I predict this will be the MOTN. This is going to have an epic, big event feel. Match will go a good 30 minutes with Cena barely prevailing. Should be a great atmosphere with the audience divided between each guy
Dandy: My thoughts on the PPV as a whole are very positive. I think there will be some good matches, and this show will set up the direction of our 3 fresh rosters. We will know where the belts are, as well.
Hunter's Torn Quad: I don't think it'll go 30, but that depends on if they have time to spare from short undercard matches
bps21: There are a LOT of matches
King Kamala Classic: yeah
King Kamala Classic: but I don't see any of them being particularly long except the World title matches
DrVenkman PhD: World tag and both women's matches will no be very long.
King Kamala Classic: Both the Tag Titles, both the Women's titles and the ECW World title match should be ten minutes or under
King Kamala Classic: the U.S. and IC title matches shouldn't go for more than 15.
bps21: No JBL this month...so no buys from ANKLELOCK. Had to throw his name in...it's routine
King Kamala Classic: what if JBL is the mystery opponent?
Hunter's Torn Quad: ANKLELOCK jizzes himself
DrVenkman PhD: You know, since JBL didn't get moved in the draft, maybe he's Ted's partner.
bps21: He does have money. His character would fit
bps21: And It'd piss me off...so they'd get a twofer
King Kamala Classic: I love rookie/mentor tag teams most of the time
King Kamala Classic: I'd be all for it
Hunter's Torn Quad: And it would enable to him to work less and take the stress off his back
King Kamala Classic: JBL could be a mentor to the young guys stable like Nash was to The Natural Born Thrillers.
bps21: And they could have a long feud with Holly/Rhodes. A battle between a guy you don't like and a guy you don't know...and their mirror image
King Kamala Classic: I think this PPV will be...interesting
Hunter's Torn Quad: It should be ok; bearable undercard with hot top matches
King Kamala Classic: I'm intrigued to see where they're headed with this but I don't think the card is really strong
King Kamala Classic: On paper, wrestling-wise, this looks like the weakest card in months
King Kamala Classic: storyline wise, this is the most interesting Post WrestleMania card.
So there you have it, WWE folder. Post your comments on the PPV as well as any comments or critiques you may have with the thoughts expressed in the Roundtable.
