Seperation of Church and State

Rob E Dangerously · February 3, 2003

Let me go to your level a bit here Rob to rebut your idiotic statement..

"we had no business going to germany during wwII even if they did declare war."

If we didn't go to Germany, then Stalin would have overrun Europe and taken much more land.

I'm sure you would have LOVED that.

Unless you wanna contend that no American participation means that Hitler wins the war by beating Russia.

Argh..

*rolls his eyes*

February 3, 2003

Bush DID also have the advantage that there was an obvious attack on American soil that Americans were experiencing.

While I'm not denying the scope of the embassy attacks and the USS Cole, it was hard for a lot of Americans to conceptualize that, and thus it was hard for them to back any action against it.

Then he should have convinced then. He could of atleast, minimum addressed the nation about that. we had something like 14 of our people die.

--Rob

Look at the scope, you tool.

If he had given a speech, trying to ask America to go to war... the media and congress would have blasted him for trying to dodge the Monica issue.

So, instead of capturing bin Laden, we get...

"OMGZORZ!! CLINTIN N MONIKA!!! IMPEECH!!!"

Funny how you conveniently forget history.

Yeah, keep denying that he did everything in his power against them. He did not even make efforts to convince people.

--Rob

February 3, 2003

WHat is wrong with revisionist history? Some of it is true. Why not acually read the site, then comment. BTW we had no business going to germany during wwII even if they did declare war. Hitler was obviously an idiot fascist but, does that give us the right to fight him even if he was killing people? NO

--Rob

So you condone Hitler wiping out a race of people? Do you also condone Stalin wiping out 10 million Ukrainians? Or how about the Polpot regieme in Cambodia?

February 3, 2003

Let me go to your level a bit here Rob to rebut your idiotic statement..

"we had no business going to germany during wwII even if they did declare war."

If we didn't go to Germany, then Stalin would have overrun Europe and taken much more land.

I'm sure you would have LOVED that.

Unless you wanna contend that no American participation means that Hitler wins the war by beating Russia.

Argh..

*rolls his eyes*

None of that concerns me. We had no business being there. We should protect our borders and stay out of foreign affairs.

--Rob

February 3, 2003

WHat is wrong with revisionist history? Some of it is true. Why not acually read the site, then comment. BTW we had no business going to germany during wwII even if they did declare war. Hitler was obviously an idiot fascist but, does that give us the right to fight him even if he was killing people? NO

--Rob

So you condone Hitler wiping out a race of people? Do you also condone Stalin wiping out 10 million Ukrainians? Or how about the Polpot regieme in Cambodia?

I do not condone shit. We have no business in other countries affairs. If they are evil let them be evil, just not here in the united States of America

--Rob

February 3, 2003

WHat is wrong with revisionist history? Some of it is true. Why not acually read the site, then comment. BTW we had no business going to germany during wwII even if they did declare war. Hitler was obviously an idiot fascist but, does that give us the right to fight him even if he was killing people? NO

--Rob

So you condone Hitler wiping out a race of people? Do you also condone Stalin wiping out 10 million Ukrainians? Or how about the Polpot regieme in Cambodia?

I do not condone shit. We have no business in other countries affairs. If they are evil let them be evil, just not here in the united States of America

--Rob

If you don't attempt to stop it, you condone it. If you do nothing to stop evil, you are just as evil yourself.

February 3, 2003

"None of that concerns me. We had no business being there. We should protect our borders and stay out of foreign affairs."

Because we ALL know that if we stayed out of war, and Hitler won, the Nazis would have just stayed in Europe and Asia. Why? Because they're that kind of people.

February 3, 2003

"None of that concerns me. We had no business being there. We should protect our borders and stay out of foreign affairs."

Because we ALL know that if we stayed out of war, and Hitler won, the Nazis would have just stayed in Europe and Asia. Why? Because they're that kind of people.

Yeah, once they invade we beat their ass. We risk american lives for going to war because of us getting involved in foreign affairs, no that is wrong. Who cares what happens there, when it affects our national security, let me know.

--Rob

Atlas · February 3, 2003

Yeah, keep denying that he did everything in his power against them. He did not even make efforts to convince people.

Because doing so would have been unfavorable politically. He was in enough shit at the time, and 14 lives is not the same as 3000 to make a huge fuss about.

I do not condone shit. We have no business in other countries affairs. If they are evil let them be evil, just not here in the united States of America

Not when we're the strongest political, military and economic power in the world. We have interests in the business of other nations. We want to protect those interests. Ignoring them isn't the way to do it. Especially when a fascist nazi fuck is busy trying to take over the world. Eventually, that would have reached us anyway.

Yeah, once they invade we beat their ass. We risk american lives for going to war because of us getting involved in foreign affairs, no that is wrong. Who cares what happens there, when it affects our national security, let me know.

And when it effects our national economy and safety of our allies from the previous World War, let's just be completely ignorant of it?

February 3, 2003

Of course once Hitler controls Europe and Asia he only controls a few billion people and I am sure our stout 150 million or so at the time would have no problem defeating that.

February 3, 2003

Yea- Those fucking Americans should've stayed out of Germany and just let my grandma and great-grandparents die. Fucking Americans

February 3, 2003

"Because doing so would have been unfavorable politically. He was in enough shit at the time, and 14 lives is not the same as 3000 to make a huge fuss about. "

So because he was fucked up and cheated on his wife, our country suffers. I see the light now.

Idiots

--Rob

Rob E Dangerously · February 3, 2003

So let's take a look at what happens due to Rob's BRILLIANT policy.

1- we don't do jackshit to Hitler

2- Hitler fights Stalin

3- Stalin drives Hitler back

4- Stalin takes over most of Europe

5- We beat Japan somewhere in this

6- Stalin turns hostile to us, gets A-Bombs and the Iron Curtain goes from Sicily to Brussels at the least.

What a beautiful world, this is!

February 3, 2003

"Because doing so would have been unfavorable politically. He was in enough shit at the time, and 14 lives is not the same as 3000 to make a huge fuss about. "

So because he was fucked up and cheated on his wife, our country suffers. I see the light now.

Idiots

--Rob

NO. Bush benefited from having 3000 people dying. Sad as it may seem, that's the ONLY way he got that support. If only 14 people had died with him, he wouldn't have gotten shit.

Atlas · February 3, 2003

"Because doing so would have been unfavorable politically. He was in enough shit at the time, and 14 lives is not the same as 3000 to make a huge fuss about. "

So because he was fucked up and cheated on his wife, our country suffers. I see the light now.

Idiots

No, because he knows that NOT speaking up about it but taking action quietly, with minimal media attention would accomplish both NOT looking like he's avoiding the Monica issue, while still doing something about the USS Cole and embassy bombings.

Rob E Dangerously · February 3, 2003

using the 2Facts news articles archives, here are some article quotations with 'jewish' or 'jews' in them from 1940 to May 1945

March 21st, 1945: "Jerusalem reports that High Commissioner Field Marshal Viscount Gort today proposed a system whereby the office of mayor will be filled in rotation by Moslem, Jewish and Christian councilors."

from December 31st, 1941, a Hitler speech: "To the Army he says: "In 1942, with all the preparations which have been made, we will again seize this enemy of mankind [Russia] and beat him until the desire of the Jewish capitalistic and Bolshevistic world for destruction is broken." He says that he did not want war. "Is it not true that France and England declared war on us because we had wished to conquer the world? Was Danzig, then, the world? No! Exactly as 25 years ago this war was begun by the same people for the same reason [to destroy Germany].""

from October 1941

"200 Jewish Suicides in Berlin

The Stockholm Social Demokraten reports that more than 200 Jews have committed suicide in Berlin since the September 6 decree requiring them to wear a yellow Star of David on their clothing"

from December 1941

"Willkie Warns Against Intolerance

Wendell L. Willkie says at a New York meeting sponsored by the National Conference of Christians and Jews that he pledges himself "to fight to the fullest extent against [the] intolerance" that always rises "under the stress and strain of combat." "We must preserve civil liberties for all or else all our sacrifices in winning this war may be in vain," he adds."

from January 1942

"Urges Arming of Palestine Jews

Rabbi Abba H. Silver says at the National Conference for Palestine meeting in Cleveland that "if Great Britain cannot arm the Jews of Palestine, presumably for lack of equipment, America should." "An Allied defeat in Palestine...would prove as costly and dangerous to America as to Great Britain," he adds."

and just for note, RIGHT BELOW the story I just cited

"Nazi Assails Christianity

In a recently published pamphlet addressed to the Hitler Youth, M. F. Schmidt, vice gauleiter of Wurttemberg, asserts that "the theory of the community of peoples in Christianity...has outlived itself in the past 2,000 years" and that "we must install in its place a new ideal based on the fundamentals of National Socialism...which would exalt the principles of racial supremacy.""

remember that one next time you get into THAT debate

circa August 1943

"3,030,050 Jews Reported Killed

A New York report of the American and World Jewish Congresses declares that 3,030,050 of 8,300,000 Jews in Europe when Adolf Hitler came to power have died because of persecution. Of this number 1,702,500 were murdered, 746,700 died of starvation and in epidemics, 345,850 died during deportations and 235,000 were killed in battle. About 1,800,000 escaped to Russia and 180,000 to other lands"

the facts are that the US didn't go into Europe to save the Jewish people.

and some more quotations to make

June 1945

"Reich Murdered Many Jews

Delayed dispatches from Frankfort (on-the-Main), Germany, say the Nazis exterminated at least 80% of the Reich's Jews and their program called for the killing of every remaining Jew in occupied Europe before the Summer of 1946. About 150,000 German Jews survived, Allied authorities estimate."

and more info.. from December 1941

""Your government knows that for weeks Germany has been telling Japan that if Japan did not attack the United States, Japan would not share in dividing the spoils with Germany when peace came," he says. "She was promised by Germany that if she came in she would receive the complete and perpetual control of the whole of the Pacific area--and that means not only the Far East...but also a stranglehold on the west coast of North, Central and South America.

"We also know that Germany and Japan are conducting their military and naval operations in accordance with a joint plan. That plan considers all peoples and nations which are not helping the Axis powers as common enemies of each and every one of the Axis powers... Remember always that Germany and Italy, regardless of any formal declaration of war, consider themselves at war with the United States at this moment..."

Other excerpts: "The sudden criminal attacks perpetrated by the Japanese in the Pacific provide the climax of a decade of international immorality. Powerful and resourceful gangsters have banded together to make war upon the whole human race. Their challenge has now been flung at the United States of America... The Congress and the people of the United States have accepted that challenge. Together with other free peoples, we are now fighting to maintain our right to live among our world neighbors in freedom and in common decency, without fear of assault.

"So far, the news has been all bad. We have suffered a serious setback in Hawaii..." Therefore to speed up production, every war industry will be put on a seven-day-week basis and new facilities will be built.

"... The United States can accept no result save victory, final and complete. Not only must the shame of Japanese treachery be wiped out, but the sources of international brutality, wherever they exist, must be absolutely and finally broken."

Axis Aliens Seized

President Roosevelt proclaims that "an invasion or predatory incursion is threatened upon the territory of the United States" by Germany and Italy, invokes "enemy alien" regulations and orders dangerous German, Italian and Japanese nationals rounded up by Federal agents. Nearly 1,300 persons are already under custody.

The State Department announces that 470 Japanese firms and individuals in Latin America have been added to the U.S. trade blacklist."

Meaning that if Germany encouraged Pearl Harbor, then even Rob would still insist not to hurt Hitler

Whoo.. that's all

one more note, under Johnstone's policy, there wouldn't be as many people, since he would have let Hitler kill them.

February 3, 2003

Um, damn, man. I think this argument is over.

February 3, 2003

Guys, Guys, this would be so much easier if you just learned how to talk to Robby. He lives under different guidelines than most posters, so you really need to think his way in order to argue with him. Here, in essence, are the Robjohnstone 10 commandments.

RobJohnStones 10 Commandments

1) Thou Shalt Not Trust the Media. The media is Liberal. In anything that has a possible Liberal Agenda, It Shall Be Assumed that it is Propaganda, To Lead men astray from the true, Correct Path.

2) Thou Shalt Not Trust any sources before mine own.

3) The Bible is the Literal Truth. All who Question the Bible are Hellspawn, sent to lead you astray.

4) Honor Buchanan, And All that HE Represents.

5) Thou Shalt Reject Abortion. Thy Children shall be born living. Living babies are needed to Create dead soldiers.

6) Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness. If Thy Puny Head is Confused, if It is Liberal, It is False.

7) ROBJOHNSTONE is above ALL questioning. Any fact stated by ROBJOHNSTONE is to be accepted without proof or questioning. If proof is desired, and ROBJOHNSTONE is feeling benevolent, he shall lead thee to the True Path of Conservative Websites or, above all else, a Buchanan book.

8) Evolution is a Liberal Myth. As it is Liberal, it must be False. The Religion of Evolution will Lead You Astray. Never let the Devils (scientists) convince you that there may be a chance.

9) Never Directly Answer Any Charge. Any who question ROBJOHNSTONE are beyond censure.

10) Yea, though thou mayst think thou hath intelligence and wisdom, thou art puny when compared to the great omniscience that is…ROBJOHNSTONE.

Learn and live by this Mantra, and everything'll go a lot smoother.

February 3, 2003

That'd be funnier if he didn't really believe it.

K.

February 3, 2003

Rob:

You've pretty much lost. Logic was half the battle, but it would be unfair to not give credit to your out-there theories of how the world works. At this point, fighting would be about as stupid as a man who shouts "AND ANOTHER THING!" 10 minutes after losing the arguement.

Personally, you sound so wildly right-wing that I'm suprised you haven't gone full circle and become left again. Your points of view range from debatable to the extreme.

Perhaps it would be best if you went back and stuck your nose in your issue of The American Conservative. Perhaps you could even write a letter to Pat and complain about how your buddies on the pro wrestling board successfully rebutted your arguement with history and fact.

This has been an interesting discussion, but unless you are willing to deal with some widely-accepted facts and beliefs, we're not going to be making any more progress here.

February 3, 2003

Samurai, you have just found new ways to define "coolness".

I am in awe my friend.

Quiet awe.

Rob E Dangerously · February 3, 2003

Circa April 1941:

"Gayda Advises U.S.

Virginio Gayda, Fascist commentator, advises the United States in the newspaper Giornale d'Italia to appease the Axis before Great Britain loses the war, which he describes as "more than certain." America's aid to Britain "may be guilty evidence of a hostile policy which in the end will turn back upon the country," he says."

from November 1940

Knox Denounces Hitler

Secretary of Navy Frank Knox calls Hitler "a fanatic, greedy for world domination," in a speech to the New England Conference of business men and six governors in Boston. He says Hitler is "likely in the very near future" to attack Gibraltar through Spain and that "we are reliably informed that Germany has a whole division in civilian clothes in Spain itself."

He states that the United States will not "appease anybody on earth [because] it doesn't fit the American spirit, the American purpose, or the American security to talk appeasement in a world like this where force and force alone determines the fate of nations." He describes Japan as "that nation now dominated by a secret cabal of military officers," and says in urging all possible aid for Britain that "I hope we will soon come to have as unanimous a public opinion in favor of helping China." He adds: "For your reassurance, I am glad to tell you as the Chief of the Navy that we have the strongest fleet today that floats the seven seas."

I should note that Rob has claimed that Saddam Hussein is more of a threat to the USA than Adolf Hitler. (Unless Rob doesn't want to go to war with Iraq, which would be news to me.)

I wish Marney was here, I'm sure she'd be against Buchanan and killing Homosexuals and all that

February 3, 2003

I wish Marney was here, I'm sure she'd be against Buchanan and killing Homosexuals and all that

Actually, homosexuals were only discussed on Page 2, and he wasn't that bad, only grousing about adoption and pride parades, and I'll agree on the latter even.

As for Marney, I'm pretty sure she'd want to hide herself where nobody else would see her, like a WWE House Show (hah!) This brand of Conservatism wrecks what she was trying to accomplish here.

Rob E Dangerously · February 3, 2003

with the 'killing Homosexuals' part, I was referring to the fact that Hitler didn't really like Homosexuals too much. Well, when you have a group of people killed, it's safe to say you don't like them much.

February 3, 2003

I was never very impressed with Marney. She made good arguments, but they were often overshadowed by her rampant and deplorable ad hominem attacks.

Why ruin a perfectly good logical dressing-down by resorting to name-calling?

February 3, 2003

with the 'killing Homosexuals' part, I was referring to the fact that Hitler didn't really like Homosexuals too much. Well, when you have a group of people killed, it's safe to say you don't like them much.

Ah. I started skipping posts when the Hitler stuff started coming up. I figure there's little point in debating that kind of thing.

Rob E Dangerously · February 3, 2003

the course of the thread

Page 3: RJS says Clinton didn't do anything about Cole, I say he didn't have time, a debate about terrorism occurs

Page 4: Kosovo and Genocide come up

Page 5: RJS declares the Holocaust never happened and Hitler wasn't a threat to the US

Page 6: the board crashes for 10 minutes

February 3, 2003

And yet, we had a field day with it. You should've joined in on the fun.

February 3, 2003

"Why ruin a perfectly good logical dressing-down by resorting to name-calling?"

Why ruin a perfectly good name-calling by resorting to logical dressing-down?

February 3, 2003

Why ruin a perfectly good name-calling by resorting to logical dressing-down?

I like this guy.

K.

Seperation of Church and State

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