Organized Religion

[Guest Downhome]

I've studied Palaeontology for the last four years. Any Christians wish to explain why the palaeontological and geological record completely contradicts all creationist theories.

For example, if man was created by God in his image, what are the numerous fossils of "primitive man", such as Neanderthal man etc.

When did dinosaurs live? I'd have thought that at some point in the bible, assuming that it records the whole history of the earth, someone would have said "By the way, God created these great big fucking lizards today called dinosaurs. They suck!"

What about the various strata in sedimentary rocks or carbon dating?

Please explain this to me, as I would very much like a valid reason to believe all geology is bollocks

I'm only responding once again, because I find this interesting. Once I noticed people were showing no respect to me or my religion, I left the thread.

 

Anyway, I have a few different beliefs than many Christians. Not on anything major, just a few things here and there, and this is one of them. The Bible does speak of Dinos, and it also speaks of an "Earth age" which came BEFORE that which we know it today. I would get into specifics, or I'll dirrect you to a few places where you can get the materials to really study the subject.

 

There's more in the Bible than non-believers think, some Christians as well.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

I've studied Palaeontology for the last four years. Any Christians wish to explain why the palaeontological and geological record completely contradicts all creationist theories.

For example, if man was created by God in his image, what are the numerous fossils of "primitive man", such as Neanderthal man etc.

When did dinosaurs live? I'd have thought that at some point in the bible, assuming that it records the whole history of the earth, someone would have said "By the way, God created these great big fucking lizards today called dinosaurs. They suck!"

What about the various strata in sedimentary rocks or carbon dating?

Please explain this to me, as I would very much like a valid reason to believe all geology is bollocks

I'm only responding once again, because I find this interesting. Once I noticed people were showing no respect to me or my religion, I left the thread.

 

Anyway, I have a few different beliefs than many Christians. Not on anything major, just a few things here and there, and this is one of them. The Bible does speak of Dinos, and it also speaks of an "Earth age" which came BEFORE that which we know it today. I would get into specifics, or I'll dirrect you to a few places where you can get the materials to really study the subject.

 

There's more in the Bible than non-believers think, some Christians as well.

I have respect for anyone with faith, but I do not understand those with blind faith. However, anyone who lives by Christian teachings is living a better live than those who dismiss them.

 

Where in the bible does it say this? I wouldn't mind reading it.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Oh, for... the Bible doesn't say word one about the fucking dinosaurs. Watch, he's going to say something about Leviathan or Behemoth. This is exactly the kind of garbage St Augustine was talking about.

God I wish these morons would find a new crock of shit. I think that if you're going to BS people you should at least try to be original and entertaining.

 

As for respecting the religion, well, it happens to be my religion too. I just don't make an ass of myself over it.

[Guest Downhome]

Oh, for... the Bible doesn't say word one about the fucking dinosaurs. Watch, he's going to say something about Leviathan or Behemoth. This is exactly the kind of garbage St Augustine was talking about.

God I wish these morons would find a new crock of shit. I think that if you're going to BS people you should at least try to be original and entertaining.

 

As for respecting the religion, well, it happens to be my religion too. I just don't make an ass of myself over it.

This is what I'm talkig about, just like in WWE folder, if you can't talk about this with any lick of sense and respect for the topic, then just forget about it.

 

Both of you, go research it for yourself, I've done so, and it does say a lot more than you think. Thanks for playing, goodbye.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

If you're not willing to put in the effort to type out a post you should cite a link at the very least. "Thanks for playing" indeed... Christ, you're a whiny little nancy-boy. Take your ball and go home if you must; the adults can carry on the conversation.

 

Forget about it! Just FORGET about it! I don't WANNA talk about it! I don't WANNA talk about it if you're gonna be like THAT! I'm gonna tell on you! WAAAAAA mommy mommy she was mean to me

 

Eeesh, what a ridiculous temper tantrum. I feel embarrassed to have watched it.

[Guest Downhome]

If you're not willing to put in the effort to type out a post you should cite a link at the very least. "Thanks for playing" indeed... Christ, you're a whiny little nancy-boy. Take your ball and go home if you must; the adults can carry on the conversation.

 

Forget about it! Just FORGET about it! I don't WANNA talk about it! WAAA

 

Eeesh, what a ridiculous temper tantrum. I feel embarrassed to have watched it.

Resorting to being a moron, even though that's "your thing", instead of asking me to explain myself, etc..., calling me an ass just out of the blue, and other shit like that is not being an adult. Once you grow up, understand how a conversation of this such continues, then I'll join back in. If you can ever do that, then ask me back, thanks.

 

I'm not here to get bitched at without even being given a chance to explain myself. I know this is NHB, so maybe the discussion shouldn't be here, because I will not discuss it with people who are disrespectfull, period.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Oh my goodness! Was I disrespectful?! Oh dear, oh my, whatever shall you do?

 

Never respond in this thread again? No, wait, you already did that, didn't you?

 

then I'll join back in

I'm holding my breath.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

So, Christianity DOES cause fighting....

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

Christanity is bullshit. To have to believe that a middle eastern man was a great and powerful son of God and he was ressurected is just silly. Jesus was nothing more then Mary Magdilyn's(sp?) pimp.

 

But Cancer you are starting to ruin this thread which is very interesting. By interesting I mean all the Christians can't back up a single word they've said. That's always funny.

[Guest AndrewisyourHero]

Allah, that's where it's at

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

So, does anyone else want to answer how conventional genetic, evolutionary, palaeontological and geological knowledge fits in with Christianity?

 

Also, to any Christians, why are you Christians and not Jewish, Muslim, Hindu etc. Is there a particular reason, other than the environment you were brought up in?

[Guest Angle-plex]

Can god make a rock that is too heavy for him to carry?

 

PARADOX~

[Guest DrTom]

Where I'm coming from: I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school for twelve years. I've read and studied the Bible, as well as the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I'm presently an atheist, have been for several years now, and am much happier this way.

 

Instead of making about a hundred replied, I'll make it easier and answer several people at once.

 

Spider Poet:

Hm. Where to begin? My own testimony is one steeped in spiritual warfare. I've had visions in prayer and I've heard spiritual tongues. Had an experience where I encountered Christ in prayer. I've found myself under deep spiritual attack and had to call on the name of Christ to see it fought back. If it's a fairytale name, it's a friggin' powerful one.

That sounds terribly interesting, but what does any of it mean? Please define the following terms: spiritual warfare, visions, spiritual tongues, encountered Christ, deep spiritual attack, call on the name of Christ, and fought back. I'm not trying to attack your beliefs here, but you're throwing out a bunch of very vague terms and seemingly expecting everyone to nod and say, "Jolly good, alrighty then!" I'd also be willing to discuss these things in PMs or AIM if you don't want to spill everything to the unwashed masses.

 

Downhome:

God doesn't decide what happens to people in terms of decisions, he allows everyone to choose for theirself, and that's great if you ask me.

It's not great at all. There's not one hint of allowance of choice if you accept the Judeo-Christian god as accurately represented in the Bible and church doctrine.

 

God, as defined, is omniscient. Thus, He knows everything, including the past, present and future. He's also perfect, so it's impossible for Him to be wrong about anything He knows. These are doctinres that you really can't be a Christian without accepting.

 

Now, free will. Also a doctrine that is supposed to be accepted. But, let's say that on July 1, 2005, I have a choice, or what appears to be a choice. I can a)go skydiving, or b)stay home. It's a free choice, right? Not at all. God, because he's omniscient and perfect, already knows what choice I will make, and he can't be wrong in that knowledge. So he knows I'm going to choose to go skydiving, and furthermore, that my parachute won't open and that I'll be killed. So I died without ever really having a say or choice in the matter. That's not free will: it's manipulating a puppet. The choice has already been made for me, and I had no say in the matter.

 

Keep in mind that if you don't buy any of the three doctrines, you're not a Good Christian.

 

Also, when you're asked to present some kind of evidence or proof, a reply of, "I've done the research. You should, too. Waaaaah! Goodbye." doesn't do a whole lot to advance your argument. Just saying.

 

RRR:

That’s sadistic.

What do you expect? This is the same God who created a place of eternal pain and suffering, "tested" people by getting them to murder their children, murdered many children himself, and wiped out almost all life on the planet in a fit of divine pique. Of course, the "New Covenant" is supposed to invalidate this, but all it really does is mollycoddle people and convince them they're not praying to a sociopath.

 

Juice:

I can tell you that Christanity is just a hop, skip, and a jump away from Cultism.

Interesting observation: an organization of a few hundred people is a "cult." An organization of a few hundred thousand people is a "church" or a "congregation." Membership numbers shouldn't mean the difference between an acceptable term and a pejorative.

 

Chave:

And, if an orthodox Christian lives a blameless life, never experiencing evil and goes to Heaven, how can he appreciate it's splendour? Is there, then, no reason for him not to sin and later repent it?

The important thing about pleasure is its brevity, its transience. We like it because it's so much better than the norm, and it's better than the norm because it's rare. Doesn't that make Heaven, a place that's supposed to be eternal bliss, happiness, pleasure, and buttered scones sound really silly?

 

Another personal observation: While I'm an atheist, I do believe there was a man who walked the earth circa 25-30 AD and did a lot of preaching. His ideas were very radical and he was eventually murdered because of them. Whether he claimed to be the son of God is irrelevant. Jesus, as a philosopher and agent of social change, has a very good message. and very good ideas about how to live one's life. I just don't believe he was in any way divine.

[Guest Goodear]

So, does anyone else want to answer how conventional genetic, evolutionary, palaeontological and geological knowledge fits in with Christianity?

 

It only fits in if you take the bible as a set of fables that were designed to teach a message and tell a story rather than an actual historical reference. Personally, I believe that Creationism can hold happy little hands with all of those things if you don't take it as a literal interpretation. Which is to say, God created the world and universe... but not in an actual week (which would be a fun way of telling time since there evidently wasn't a sun until day 3 or 4).

 

Also, to any Christians, why are you Christians and not Jewish, Muslim, Hindu etc. Is there a particular reason, other than the environment you were brought up in?

 

I speak for myself when I say that I don't care where you were brought up. If you're a "good" or even "average" person, I cannot see a merciful and just God sending you to hell because you didn't accept Jesus as your personal savior. The lessons Jesus taught were so universal that his actual involvement becomes almost secondary to me.

[Murmuring Beast 0]

In the school where I have just left, which is Catholic, by the way, there was this religous teacher who was just a bully and turned me off religion for good.

 

1. He dismissed Darwinism by saying, "I'm no' related to Jimmy the monkey from the nearby Zoo"

 

2. He said that the bible wasn't supposed to be taken literally.

 

Of course, the second one made me laugh the hardest. The book was written 2000 years ago for ignorants and by ignorants and now he is trying to go back on these people's words by saying "Oh, no, they didn't mean that"

 

Yes they did, Tom, and it's all in there. Killing blasphemours, stoning folk to death. Kinda like Afghanistan, but you weren't exactly condoning that, were you?

 

 

Oh, and just so I can get this off my chest and I hope no one is offended ...

 

"FUCK, YOU, TOM HUGHES. YOU ARE A BULLY WHO GETS OFF ON INTIMIDATING CHILDREN. YOU ARE AND ALWAYS WILL BE A SAD FUCKER"

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

About the Dinosaurs:

 

I believe it does say in the bible that the animals came first.

 

This is left up to a reader's interpretation, but you could easily say that this does include Dinosaurs and what not. I would actually quote it, but I'm too lazy.

 

I can't defend the 7 days thing, because I also share Goodear's view on the Old Testament. I don't literally interpret it and take it as an historical record.

 

As someone much wiser than me once said:

 

Science explains how it exactly happened.

 

Religion offers an explanation as to why it happened.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

Evolution has been proven to an extent and the "church" still comes up with lame excuses to why they don't believe the scientific proof. It's really quite unbelieveable at the amount of ignorance christians carry aorund with them.

[Guest Goodear]

You really can't prove something to an extent. It's either been proved or its still a theory. Besides science has had its own fair share of blunders that I'm sure we're all aware of as well so I don't just throw in what the guy in the white jacket tells me either.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

Evolution has been proven to an extent and the "church" still comes up with lame excuses to why they don't believe the scientific proof. It's really quite unbelieveable at the amount of ignorance christians carry aorund with them.

Personally, I believe an evolution, but I don't think it happened by chance, call it a divine intervention or whatever. That's just my belief.

[Guest notJames]

Can god make a rock that is too heavy for him to carry?

 

PARADOX~

If "god" is all powerful, he/she/it transcends all paradox, logic, etc.

 

So yes, god could do it.

 

Why god would want to do it is another story.

 

As for where I stand on the whole organized religion "debate", I just view religion as a buffet table. I takes what I likes and leave the rest.

[Guest Angle-plex]

Can god make a rock that is too heavy for him to carry?

 

PARADOX~

If "god" is all powerful, he/she/it transcends all paradox, logic, etc.

 

So yes, god could do it.

But omnipotence = unlimited power, right? So if god is omnipotent, then he should be able to lift a rock no matter how big it is.

[chaosrage 0]

Like you said before to have happiness you need sadness. To have good you need evil. God realized that.

Oh come on, God doesn't need anything. Supposedly, there is nothing he can't do. He makes all the rules. An omnipotent would have the power to create whatever reality he wanted, including a world that has all the benefits without sadness and suffering. But he didn't.

[Guest Angle-plex]

Speaking of which, who created evil anyways? If god created evil, then he is not good. If someone else created evil, then god is not "almighty". So, I guess that means that God cannot be both good and almighty, right?

[Murmuring Beast 0]

God must like Satan because God loves everyone.

[Guest Spicy McHaggis]

Oh, for... the Bible doesn't say word one about the fucking dinosaurs. Watch, he's going to say something about Leviathan or Behemoth. This is exactly the kind of garbage St Augustine was talking about.

God I wish these morons would find a new crock of shit. I think that if you're going to BS people you should at least try to be original and entertaining.

 

As for respecting the religion, well, it happens to be my religion too. I just don't make an ass of myself over it.

Actually you missed the part where they said Catholics are not Christians.

 

It's also interesting to see predestinationists discuss free will.

 

Evolution has been proven to an extent and the "church" still comes up with lame excuses to why they don't believe the scientific proof. It's really quite unbelieveable at the amount of ignorance christians carry aorund with them.

 

Which Church?

[Murmuring Beast 0]

God must like Satan because God loves everyone.

[Murmuring Beast 0]

Sunnavabitch.

[chaosrage 0]

Is it predetermined?  Or does he just know we'll make a choice.  He knows what our final choice will be, but we're still the ones who make it.  Knowing it doesn't mean he controlled it.

 

If he knows it already, then that would mean it's set no matter what. If our futures are set in stone, then of course we can't make a choice either way. We would just think we could.

 

if there is no evil then why is something good? Something is only "good" in contrast to evil.

 

But that's not true. If you took away hate, you could still just feel indifferent, like, or love. Just like if you took away cold, hot would still exist. It would still burn or make you feel uncomfortable.

[Guest Retro Rob]

All of my usual points have been brought up already (thanks Tom). But I just find it absurd the way people feel like they can consider themselves Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. and not follow the letter of the law. If you don't want to follow all the rules or go to mass every week, then get the fuck out because you are only giving the entire religion you "belong" to a bad reputation. Organized religion is full of hypocrites. I would consider majority of my own family hypocrites for this same reason. There is nothing wrong with just living your life as a good person and not sticking a specific religious label on yourself.

[chaosrage 0]

2. Adam and Eve were made aware of the possibilities of each of their actions. Nobody pulled their strings except the Devil, who lied to them. They are accountable for their well informed actions, just like you and I are in society and before God. Don't try and shirk personal responsibility and blame it on someone else, namely God. Even Christians are accountable to confess that they are sinners.

How can they be aware of the possiblities of the actions when he FORBADE them from learning the difference between their choices? How could they make the right choice without knowing that it was evil to listen to the snake instead of God?