Most overrated films of all time

[MrRant 0]

And if someone doesn't like Bonnie and Clyde and thinks Star Wars is better? Do you call them an idiot?

 

Who are YOU to judge someone else's tastes? People like you make it hard to discuss movies because you like to state your opinion as fact. LOR is an EVENT~! movie but I don't see you shitting on that (You may have).

 

Saving Private Ryan was the same thing. You can't hate a movie for starting a trend.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

And if someone doesn't like Bonnie and Clyde and thinks Star Wars is better? Do you call them an idiot?

 

Who are YOU to judge someone else's tastes? People like you make it hard to discuss movies because you like to state your opinion as fact. LOR is an EVENT~! movie but I don't see you shitting on that (You may have).

 

Saving Private Ryan was the same thing. You can't hate a movie for starting a trend.

All art and art criticism is subjective. Always. No one's trying to deny that. But if you've got a lot of knowledge and you know your shit, I think it's pretty fair to objectively state and back up the fact that Bonnie and Clyde is a better made film than Star Wars. People aren't stating their opinion as fact; they're making a statement with evidence that they believe corroborates it. That's argument and discussion in a nutshell. No harm in that, I think.

[MrRant 0]

Knowledge in film is trivial at best unless you are talking about actual production. Everything else is opinion.

 

GTD certainly is knowledgeable about films (and I respect his opinon), but that doesn't mean that if he has watched 1000 movies to my 999 or if he has stayed up all night after drinking a 12 pack of Coke watching IFC that he is an authority of what is good/bad or what should be where.

 

Most of it is all opinon. No one really is an "authority" on good movies because it is as you said subjective to a taste.

Edited August 12, 2003 by MrRant

[godthedog 0]

And if someone doesn't like Bonnie and Clyde and thinks Star Wars is better? Do you call them an idiot?

i'd ask him to back his shit up. if he could successfully argue that 'star wars' was a better movie, with points and stuff, then i'd concede.

 

Who are YOU to judge someone else's tastes?

i'm not. there is a difference between saying "i LIKE x more than y" and saying "x is BETTER than y." i LIKE 'the last boy scout' more than 'breathless', but i'd never in a million years argue that it's a better movie. your personal taste and objective value claims (like "this is good," "that is bad") are different. the word "better" implies standard notions of good and bad, and joe blow would have to prove to me that 'star wars' is better than 'bonnie and clyde' based on those notions. if he says 'star wars' is his favorite movie, i can't say anything to refute that. if he says 'star wars' is the greatest movie ever made, then he's got some proving to do (as does anyone when they say "such-and-such is the best movie ever).

 

Saving Private Ryan was the same thing. You can't hate a movie for starting a trend.

and you can't argue both ways. you brought importance into it, i didn't. you said i have to think a movie is greater by the effects it had, now you say i can't think a movie is worse by the effects it had. if i can't hate a movie for starting a trend, why should i think it's great for starting a trend?

 

importance is basically the effects a movie has on moviemaking, the industry, the public, etc., right? if we're judging the greatest movies on importance, then it seems reasonable that we can judge it on how good or bad its effects are. you said we should take the importance of 'star wars' into account, i'm saying it had bad effects, making it a worse movie. i don't think it would make sense to argue for a movie's greatness just because it had a lot of effects on cinema, without taking into account how good those effects were.

 

'heaven's gate' is an important movie, it had a lot of effects on the moviemaking/industry/public (most notably bankrupting united artists), so shouldn't we argue that's a great movie too? of course not. if a movie's importance is part of the overall picture of its "greatness," why should it be great if it did harm to movies in general?

[WrestlingDeacon 0]

I too have to add to the Wonder Boys love. In fact, one of my professors at Pitt was the man the Michael Douglas character is based on, an author and teacher named Chuck Kinder. The book the film is based on was written by Pitt alumni Michael Chabon.

 

I think the biggest trouble one gets into on a board like this is when opinion is stated as fact or someone attempts to beat another person over the head to get them to see their way of thinking. Basically, there's little you can do to change someone's mind through a message board. This has been one of the best and more interesting threads in awhile where we've discussed a broad section of movies in detail. In fact, I am encouraged to start posting analysis of mine of films once week, a sort of column if you will, starting sometime soon.

[Guest MissMattitude]

Overrated movies... Titanic, Kids (I heard so many good things about this movie)... that's all I can think of right at this present movie, no doubt I will add to it later on though.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

you said we should take the importance of 'star wars' into account, i'm saying it had bad effects, making it a worse movie. i don't think it would make sense to argue for a movie's greatness just because it had a lot of effects on cinema, without taking into account how good those effects were

I don't know about that particular argument. It's kinda like saying HHH pulling off his poor Ric Flair imitation makes Ric Flair a worse wrestler.

 

The originator can't control the quality of its successors.

[godthedog 0]

that was hypothetical, i was saying "if we take importance into account..." earlier in the thread, i said that a movie should be judged on its own merits anyway, and not on its influence. rant disagreed, so i said if we do judge on influence, we have to look at good influence v. bad influence.

[Guest El Satanico]

I also liked "Wonder Boys" alot. However, unlike god and deacon I'm not good at explaining why I like a movie.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

Thing about Star Wars, is that although the acting and writing are pretty sub-par, its still possible to hold it up as a genuinely high-quality film in terms of visuals. The ambition and detail in the film's look is still quite something, and the way the action is shot is a step ahead of all the crappy blockbusters it inspired. I still haven't seen a dogfight done with the same smoothness and immersion that the Death Star trench run possesses. Thats the irritating thing about George Lucas, he clearly has a lot of talent for directing action particularly, but it only really comes to the fore when the action is focused, as with the trench run and the duel at the end of the Phantom Menace. Unlike the unnecessarilly convoluted action scenes of the rest of the prequels, these two scenes are pretty much stripped-down with a single objective. I'm personally interested to see if Lucas will direct anything after he finishes Star Wars, and what it will be like.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

The thing w/ Lucas is, when he has a yes-man like McCallum, the movies turn out sub-par/below expectations (Ep. I and II). Yet when he had someone willing to challenge him like Kasdan, he came up w/ the best of the 5 (ESB).

 

Also, I think the advancements in technology have actually hurt the movies. When all he had was stop-motion and guys in costumes, he could focus on the characters and the story. Now that he's got all this computer animation at his fingertips, he's focusing on that at the expense of the story & characters. Sure, the computer animations look fantastic, but they aren't really enhancing the storytelling.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Overrated films = Citizen Kane & Titanic

[5_moves_of_doom 0]

Frost... er, Deacon... I'd just like to say that I'd thouroughly enjoy a weekly column from you, especially since I'm finally starting to get into a lot of the older stuff that you enjoy (I'm a film buff, but still just in highschool, so while I can blow just about ANYONE my age away with film knowledge, I still have several genres to cover.) I've seen a shitload of it, but there's a lot to be watched still, and go ahead and shoot me, because I STILL haven't seen The Searchers. Yeah, I suck.

[godthedog 0]

nothing wrong with that. i've been a film buff since i was about 13, i'm 21 now, and i didn't see 'the searchers' until about a year ago.

[WrestlingDeacon 0]

Well, 5_Moves knows that the Searchers is my favorite movie and I've told him to watch it like a million times.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Overrated films = Citizen Kane & Titanic

Care to explain why, or do you just wanna join the group of people who just talk out of their ass and disappear when it's time to back up their statements?

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Scarface.

 

 

Why? Because the movie succeeds more because of DePalma's style then anything else. At this point, it's badly dated the story itself is rather simplistic (the basic premise is as old as storytelling itself), none of the characters are particularily appealing, we envy Tony Montana but we don't really empathize with him.

[Guest Boomer Sprinklespax]

This will probably generate a lot of doom, but I think The Godfather is pretty overrated. That's not to say that I think The Godfather is a bad movie or even a good movie, because, actually, I think it's a great movie. But when I go onto IMDb.com and look at the top films of all-time and The Godfather is at the top, that pisses me off. Godfather might be great, but it is NOT the best of all-time at all.

 

On another note, I have yet to see any negative criticism of Chicago that is backed up by some good points. I can understand if you do not like musicals and, thusly, did not like Chicago, but any rational musical-liking person should damn well like Chicago.

 

Damn, this is sounding pretty gay, insulting Godfather and defending Chicago...hurm...

 

...Uhm, I really hate Titanic as well. Stupid, stupid popcorn flick that is unworthy of the Oscars it won! Yeah!

[5_moves_of_doom 0]

Well, 5_Moves knows that the Searchers is my favorite movie and I've told him to watch it like a million times.

But my Blockbuster's version was stollllennn and the other Blockbuster is like ten minutes away! And I'm lazy! *whimper*

 

Eh, I'll have it watched by the end of the week, bitch, though I DID think that The Color of Money was your favorite movie. Loved that, by the way, though I think I already discussed it with you.