bob_barron 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 I agree with Banky. Kanyon's done all he could as himself, and that doesn't amount to much. The man needs a gimmick. Not true- Aside from a minor push in the summer of 2001 (In which he was over)- Vince hasn't done anything with him and has just shitted on him since his return. In WCW with his "Positively" Kanyon persona- He became one of the most over people in the company and the most entertaining. Seeing as how MSG loved him he should get a push- Just let him be his obnoxious self and the man would get over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Eagan469 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Not true- Aside from a minor push in the summer of 2001 (In which he was over) Dude, I was at RAW the night after Invasion. Fucking SEAN STASIAK was over just for the fact that he used to be Meat. Cards at those times were just clusterfucks of past WCW/ECW gimmicks that we were cheering just because we didn't know who half of the guys were. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Dude, I was at RAW the night after Invasion. That was before they gave Kanyon anything. Up until that night he was just 'Kanyon' some guy from WCW. Getting the US title from Booker T and the 'Who Bettah then Kanyon' storyline- of course he's not going to be over. Why should the fans care about some guy who worked a meaningless 6 man tag at a PPV? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Winter Of My Discontent Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Look at Kane? He had a mask for almost 6 years, and he was just fine. You don't know which attributes the Mortis gimmick will have yet, so don't get your He-Man underwear in a bunch quite yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Look at Kane? He had a mask for almost 6 years, and he was just fine. Kane only had a year long storyline as a build up and upon entrance was booked to kill everyone in its place. You don't know which attributes the Mortis gimmick will have yet I do know that Kanyon was more over as Kanyon and part of his strength is his mic skills and his obnoxious personality. It's hard to get that across when you're wearing a mask Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dangerous A 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Kanyon is deader than dead. Even if he was pushed, he won't draw because he's been killed. Marks percieve him as a bitch. I am just not sure Mortis is the answer either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Winter Of My Discontent Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Bob, there are more subtle ways of getting over than being an obnoxious jackass. A cool comic book type gimmick would have a higher success rate than a one dimensional 'who bettah than Kanyon' gimmick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ram Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Wasn't there the idea of bringing back a Dungeon of Doom gimmick for Kanyon but purposely making it bad-funny? Maybe this is it. Mortis rules. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dangerous A 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Banky's got a point. "Who's bettah than Kanyon" was over some, but that was when WCW was drawing flies to their shows. Hardly any of those fans are still around, like, or care about that gimmick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Repo Man jr 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 It could just be he comes out and they make fun of him going "Mortis, we remember him... hey isn't that just crazy Kanyon, haha, what a joke" Vince doesn't like pushing things he didn't create. If he was serious, he would of invented his own new masked gimmick for Kanyon anyway. It's not very hard and Mortis isn't memorable or clever really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Kanyon is deader than dead. Even if he was pushed, he won't draw because he's been killed. Marks percieve him as a bitch. If he's over despite jobbing non-stop- imagine how over he would be if they gave him a push. A cool comic book type gimmick would have a higher success rate than a one dimensional 'who bettah than Kanyon' gimmick. But Mortis isn't cool- He was just some guy wearing his mask. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Winter Of My Discontent Report post Posted August 13, 2003 A cool comic book type gimmick would have a higher success rate than a one dimensional 'who bettah than Kanyon' gimmick. But Mortis isn't cool- He was just some guy wearing his mask. To some self-recognized internet critic, it may suck. But really, who are you to say what is cool? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Banky's got a point. "Who's bettah than Kanyon" was over some, but that was when WCW was drawing flies to their shows. Hardly any of those fans are still around, like, or care about that gimmick. Who's Bettah than Kanyon wasn't the gimmick that got him over- It was the "Positively" Kanyon and the Kanyon Cutters that was over. The fans not remembering the gimmick isn't the point- Kanyon HAS been over before, he's over now and given a push- he'd get over again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 A cool comic book type gimmick would have a higher success rate than a one dimensional 'who bettah than Kanyon' gimmick. But Mortis isn't cool- He was just some guy wearing his mask. To some self-recognized internet critic, it may suck. But really, who are you to say what is cool? Because Mortis has never been cool- He was just some loser in a mask who never got over. Kanyon did get over Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Eagan469 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 It was the "Positively" Kanyon and the Kanyon Cutters that was over. I don't remember that at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dangerous A 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Kanyon has gotten over because of his work on the mic and in ring. However he has never been a draw. In that aspect, he has not been over. If you're talking about over in a midcard, get people to cheer for/against you, then yes, he was over. But he's never going to be a draw as Mortis or Kanyon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Actually the idea of Kanyon promoing about being a pit fighter in Tibet while wearing the Mortis getup and speaking with a Jersey accent has appeal for me. Even better if he brings back the old jesters skull on a stick, Yorick was one of my favorite innanimate objects in all of pro wrestling. If you can't tell Goodear = Mortis fan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 It was in 2000 after Kanyon made a non-sensical heel turn at Great American Bash by giving DDP a Diamond Cutter through the stage. DDP then left for a while and Kanyon became "Postively" Kanyon- spoofing DDP's book. He even wrote a book himself (co-written by Mark Madden) and began spoofing DDP by giving Kanyon Cutters to random people at random times. WCW killed the gimmick after New Blood Rising (when David Arquette caused Kanyon to lose a Judy Bagwell on a forklift match to Buff Bagwell) but later returned in 2001 and finally had a match with DDP where he defeated him thanks to Jeff Jarrett Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 However he has never been a draw. He has never been put in a position to draw. In that aspect, he has not been over. If you're never put in a position to draw- how then you can draw and be considered 'over'? If you're talking about over in a midcard, get people to cheer for/against you, then yes, he was over I think he still is over today- and that's despite being made to look like a bitch. But he's never going to be a draw as Mortis or Kanyon. So he's never going to be The Rock. That doesn't mean he should be on Velocity losing every week or going back to something he did 5 years ago Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dangerous A 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Kanyon deserves more than Velocity. Unfortunately, I don't think he's ever going to be a factor from here on out. Not while he still works for Vince and Co. They will never elevate him. EVER. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JRE Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Mortis could fit in with the Kanyon gimmick. "I finally found someone betta than Kanyon" Kanyon says as he appears on the SDTron. ENTER: MORTIS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Wasn't Kanyon over as a member of the Jersey Triad with Page and Bigelow? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Mortis will work better in WWE anyway. WWE was more character oriented then WCW was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Who betta than Mortis? Mortis = The NEW MVP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spaceman Spiff 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 All Bob is saying is that Kanyon has the skills, talent, and charisma to be a good mid-card player and to get over in the WWE w/out having to use the Mortis gimmick. Bob's not saying they should push him to the moon, have him squash Brock, Angle, Show, HHH, Rock, Austin, and Taker for the Title Belt, and hold on to it for 10 years, so where did all this "Kanyon isn't a draw" argument stem from? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 You know I did have some interest in the whole Tibetan monk angle and that he was on a quest to find "The One". That was before he jobbed to Rhyno though... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewTS 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Wasn't there the idea of bringing back a Dungeon of Doom gimmick for Kanyon but purposely making it bad-funny? Maybe this is it. Mortis rules. When WWE tries to be funny, they fail. When they try to be serious, THEN it's funny. It's why "purposely bad" b-movies that are supposed to be parodies suck and will never equal an unintentionally bad movie like those in Ed Wood's body of work. Kanyon's never had a real chance in WWE, he was just an Alliance suck up, been part of a tag team that was made to be the BoD's bitches, and since he came back from injury was a dark match wrestler. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Its embarrasing how Kanyon has been treated since returning to the ring. For God's sake, the man almost DIED and still had love for the business. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted August 13, 2003 Its embarrasing how Kanyon has been treated since returning to the ring. For God's sake, the man almost DIED and still had love for the business. Mortis is a very distinctive gimmick. Those who don't know it will like it because it's kinda cool and gothic, and those who do know of it will love it because it's from Blood Runs Cold. I could see Kanyon getting a big push out of this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted August 13, 2003 I was refering to Kanyon being kept off SD and jobbing all the time though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites