Non-wrestlers dominating Raw

[Bored 0]

Let's see tonight the breakdown wrestlers to non-wrestlers featured in the second hour of Raw:

 

Wrestlers: Chris Jericho, Christian, Randy Orton, Maven, Shawn Michaels, Kane

 

Non-wrestlers: Linda McMahon, Vince McMahon, Shane McMahon, Steve Austin, Eric Bischoff, Johnathan Coachman, Jerry Lawler, Jim Ross

 

Okay that's 8 to 6 and Jericho was just enhancement to Shane/Kane and Christian was just enhancement to Coach/King. Seriously enough is enough. Its called WRESTLING so let's see some wrestlers. I'd ask for seeing some wrestling matches betwen wrestlers only too but that'd probably be asking for too much.

[Guest JMA]

Amen. Non-wrestlers are supposed to put over actual wrestlers, not the other way around.

[iliketurtles 0]

Austin is the only one who should be able to do it...because he's the most popular guy on the Raw roster.

 

Everyone else you have a valid point.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

What you just explained is wrestling. There have always been non-wrestlers playing major parts in storylines. The stuff with Vince was stupid and not needed. But the rest were playing major parts in major storylines. Sue them for trying to develope for once!

 

GEEZ!~

[Guest Basswitch]

Hmm, i dont even consider Maven a wrestler.

 

But anyways, I agree that the last part of the show was a bit to clustered with non - wrestlers (espeshally McMahons).

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Hey, technically you forgot the t-shirt gun guy, although I suspect that he was a local wrestler or something.

[Downhome 0]

What you just explained is wrestling. There have always been non-wrestlers playing major parts in storylines. The stuff with Vince was stupid and not needed. But the rest were playing major parts in major storylines. Sue them for trying to develope for once!

 

GEEZ!~

Yes there always have been, you are exactly right. The difference between now and the glory years of Pro. Wrestling, is that they NEVER dominated as they are in this day and age.

 

That's a fact.

[jester 0]

Look, I mentioned this in another thread, but it's all very simple:

 

McMahons > Announcers > Managers > Wrestlers.

 

Managers can beat a wrestler. Announcers can beat managers and wrestlers. And McMahons can kick everybody's asses. It's all very realistic.

 

Next week on Smackdown: Stephanie McMahon vs. THE ENTIRE ROSTER.

 

Stephanie loses, but not clean.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

What you just explained is wrestling.  There have always been non-wrestlers playing major parts in storylines.  The stuff with Vince was stupid and not needed.  But the rest were playing major parts in major storylines.  Sue them for trying to develope for once!

 

GEEZ!~

Yes there always have been, you are exactly right. The difference between now and the glory years of Pro. Wrestling, is that they NEVER dominated as they are in this day and age.

 

That's a fact.

I wouldn't say "dominating". There are some non-wrestlers playing some major roles, but not to the extent to say they are dominating.

[Downhome 0]

What you just explained is wrestling.  There have always been non-wrestlers playing major parts in storylines.  The stuff with Vince was stupid and not needed.  But the rest were playing major parts in major storylines.  Sue them for trying to develope for once!

 

GEEZ!~

Yes there always have been, you are exactly right. The difference between now and the glory years of Pro. Wrestling, is that they NEVER dominated as they are in this day and age.

 

That's a fact.

I wouldn't say "dominating". There are some non-wrestlers playing some major roles, but not to the extent to say they are dominating.

At the half way point, one of the most importart parts of the entire show, we had a Highlight Reel. That's all fine and good, as it showcases Jericho. Wait, no, it doesn't. The guests on the show were not Pro. Wrestlers at all. We had Linda, Vince, and Shane. All three McMahons, all three taking part in an angle which serves no purpose at all. It's just, once again, the McMahons dominating TV time, period. They dominated one of the most important parts of the show, and in my eyes, the most important segment.

 

We have an entire segment dedicated to Bishoff, Coach, and Austin. None of which are actual active Pro. Wrestlers. Then we have a match including Lawler, who is just another commentator on RAW. In the match, he dominated Christian, the IC champion, for the most part, and Christian was only able to pull out the victory when Coach, just another commentator, had to give him a helping hand, leading to a simple roll up. Once again, non-wrestlers dominating TV.

 

Then the main event, we have Shane McMahon wrestling Chris Jericho. Chris Jericho is a Pro. Wrestler, one of the best in the business overall. In the match, we have Shane really taking it to Jericho, say what you will, but that doesn't please me. Not only did the match not have a finish, but it served no point but to further the Kane/Shane feud. Once again, a Pro. Wrestler is shit on in order to serve a purpose for just another one of thes McMahons, another one of these NON wrestlers, and no, Shane McMahon is NOT a wrestler.

 

After that match "ended" we have something happen which never should have. We have Shane McMahon take out Kane. He didn't just take him out, oh no. He apparently killed him, and REALLY took him out. He tossed this so-called "monster" into a huge pit of fire, like it was nothing. As the show went off, we have a non wrestler standing over an actual performer in Kane, as he fell into a fire pit.

 

Now how can you possibly say that they didn't dominate the show?

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

All of those examples you listed had the non-wrestler contributing to a storyline of a wrestler. I, IMO, don't consider that domination of the show. They served a greater purpose.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

I only watched about the last 45 minutes of RAW, mainly because I had just gotten home and decided to see what happened.

 

I didn't see anything that involved a wrestler vs. another wrestler. Not a match, not an angle, not even a backstage skit.

 

What does that tell you?

[Guest wrestlingbs]

All of those examples you listed had the non-wrestler contributing to a storyline of a wrestler. I, IMO, don't consider that domination of the show. They served a greater purpose.

Yeah, to build up Shane Mcmahon.

[Downhome 0]

All of those examples you listed had the non-wrestler contributing to a storyline of a wrestler. I, IMO, don't consider that domination of the show. They served a greater purpose.

I love your willingness to not want to see what happened tonight, that's great. It was just so overcoming tonight that even I saw the bullshit going on.

 

In EVER example I gave you, the wrestlers were being screwd. It wasn't "the non-wrestler contributing to a storyline of a wrestler", it was the other way around. The WRESTLERS were contributing to the storylines of non-wrestlers.

 

First off, that HighLight Reel segment didn't even include a wrestler in the storyline, other than Jericho. Jericho was nothing more than a PAWN in the McMahon storyline, and ended up being a pawn once again in the main event. As I said, a wrestler contributing to a storyline for non-wrestlers.

 

For the entire Coach deal, it's the exact same thing as above. This is a feud between Austin/King/JR and Coach/Bishoff. Out of all of these guys, NONE of them are a Pro. Wrestler character. The only wrestler involved was Christian, and just as Jericho, he was nothing more than a pawn in the storyline. As a matter of fact, there wasn't even a reason for him to be out there other than to just have a wrestler be there period. Once again, a wrestler contributing to a storyline for non-wrestlers.

 

As for the main event, the match even included a non-wrestler. His opponent, Jericho, was once again a pawn in the storyline. Chris Jericho pulled double duty tonight, and I feel damn sorry for him. The focus wasn't on him, it was on the non-wrestler. When Kane came out, Shane followed him and we just forgot about Jericho. Damn to him says WWE! We follow Shane out to the back, and he pushes the damn MONSTER of Kane, the most dominating force on RAW, into a pit of fire. The show ENDED with a non-wrestler destroying a talent.

 

In EACH instance, the focus was on the non-wrestlers, in EACH instance, it was a case of the wrestlers playing the pawn, contributing to the storylines which are focused on non-wrestlers.

 

That's all I can really say, because quite simply, that's just the way it is.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

All of those examples you listed had the non-wrestler contributing to a storyline of a wrestler.  I, IMO, don't consider that domination of the show.  They served a greater purpose.

Yeah, to build up Shane Mcmahon.

It also furthered Kane, and Orton/Michaels, and the Coach angle is leading up to something that will involve a wrestler.

 

If they have to use non-wrestlers to bulid a storyline, then I am all for it. I have been wanting them to start building them for months now and I hope they don't fuck it up now.

[Downhome 0]

I only watched about the last 45 minutes of RAW, mainly because I had just gotten home and decided to see what happened.

 

I didn't see anything that involved a wrestler vs. another wrestler. Not a match, not an angle, not even a backstage skit.

 

What does that tell you?

EXACTLY!

 

And, like I said before, even the wrestlers that WERE showcased were not really being showcased. They were either simply a pawn for the non-wrestlers, or they got destroyed, ie, Kane.

 

This was just one hell of a bad writing of RAW. Whoever wrote this show should be fired right now.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

So they should fire Vince?

[Downhome 0]

So they should fire Vince?

[Guest wrestlingbs]

All of those examples you listed had the non-wrestler contributing to a storyline of a wrestler.  I, IMO, don't consider that domination of the show.  They served a greater purpose.

Yeah, to build up Shane Mcmahon.

It also furthered Kane, and Orton/Michaels, and the Coach angle is leading up to something that will involve a wrestler.

 

If they have to use non-wrestlers to bulid a storyline, then I am all for it. I have been wanting them to start building them for months now and I hope they don't fuck it up now.

The Orton/Micheals fued I'll give you, but Kane, the evil monster they've been hyping for months, was defeated by SHANE MCMAHON! A non-wrestler who just spend time fighting Jericho, a guy who's a former world champ! This doesn't help Kane, if anything it greatly hurts his image.

 

Oh, and the grand Coach angle is leading toward a match: Lawler vs. Coach. And if that goes anywhere, I'll be surprised. Wrestlers need not apply.

[Brush with Greatness 0]

What you just explained is wrestling. There have always been non-wrestlers playing major parts in storylines. The stuff with Vince was stupid and not needed. But the rest were playing major parts in major storylines. Sue them for trying to develope for once!

 

GEEZ!~

Please give examples, pre 1998, where a non-wrestler played such a major part in a storyline.

 

Managers, announcers, owners, and anyone else without any wrestling skill should be used as enhancement talent. In no case, should any of these people be made to look good over a wrestler.

 

There is nothing wrong with using one of these people to advance a storyline. For instance, wrestler A is feuding with wrestler B. Wrestler A beats up wrestler B's manager in a match/segment etc. Wrestler B then jumps wrestler A back. That's okay. The manager is being used to enhance the story.

 

Non-wrestlers being made to look good over actual workers is a serious problem.

[Downhome 0]

What you just explained is wrestling.  There have always been non-wrestlers playing major parts in storylines.  The stuff with Vince was stupid and not needed.  But the rest were playing major parts in major storylines.  Sue them for trying to develope for once!

 

GEEZ!~

Please give examples, pre 1998, where a non-wrestler played such a major part in a storyline.

 

Managers, announcers, owners, and anyone else without any wrestling skill should be used as enhancement talent. In no case, should any of these people be made to look good over a wrestler.

 

There is nothing wrong with using one of these people to advance a storyline. For instance, wrestler A is feuding with wrestler B. Wrestler A beats up wrestler B's manager in a match/segment etc. Wrestler B then jumps wrestler A back. That's okay. The manager is being used to enhance the story.

 

Non-wrestlers being made to look good over actual workers is a serious problem.

I can think of very few moments in Pro. Wrestling history where non-workers pissed on the true workers, as much as tonight. Almost all of those moments were in WCW as well.

 

Pre-1998, I don't think I can think of a single time.

[KingPK 0]

Austin-McMahon?

 

How about the Shane/Vince vs. Stone Cold ladder match (with the mysterious rising briefcase)?

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

Shit! There were a few times. Vince has been part of a lot of them, but Bobby Heenan, Sensational Sherry, Ted Dibiase, and if I wasn't under the influence I might try to find some more, but it has alwasy happened.

[jester 0]

And, like I said before, even the wrestlers that WERE showcased were not really being showcased. They were either simply a pawn for the non-wrestlers, or they got destroyed, ie, Kane.

 

This was just one hell of a bad writing of RAW. Whoever wrote this show should be fired right now.

It made me sick watching Jericho, who should be tearing up the ring with another good worker, or cutting a killer promo to get HIMSELF or his opponent heat, standing in the background of his own show, nodding like a stooge to what Vince said.

 

And could they not have had RVD make the save, and be the one to knock Kane into the dumpster?

 

Oh right, that might get a WRESTLER over. Silly me.

[Downhome 0]

Shit!  There were a few times.  Vince has been part of a lot of them, but Bobby Heenan, Sensational Sherry, Ted Dibiase, and if I wasn't under the influence I might try to find some more, but it has alwasy happened.

Yes, Vince has been in a lot of them, that's the point.

 

I'm still waiting for examples of non workers DOMINATING a program in the past, pre-attitude era.

 

You say it's always been like this, and now, it's time for you to back up such an asinine statement. The FACT, is that this day and age is totally different, Pro. Wrestling has changed so much. I can understand that, but the non-workers dominating as they are is unexcusable.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

Austin is the only one who should be able to do it...because he's the most popular guy on the Raw roster.

 

Everyone else you have a valid point.

No one should be putting over Austin whether he's popular or not. He's no longer a wrestler, therefore, REAL wrestlers shouldn't be making him look good every week. It's his time to do that and I'm tired of seeing him make all of the active roster look like wimps week in and week out. What's that do for your credibility when a near-cripple beats your ass? Who cares if it's Steve Austin? He's still a near-cripple and that's what I'm looking at when stuff like this goes down.

[Brush with Greatness 0]

Shit! There were a few times. Vince has been part of a lot of them, but Bobby Heenan, Sensational Sherry, Ted Dibiase, and if I wasn't under the influence I might try to find some more, but it has alwasy happened.

When were Heenan, Sherry or Dibiase ever the central focus of a feud. Heenan stepped into the ring a few times and was made to look like an ass every time. He was a weak coward. Sherry was a conniving bitch who always got what was coming to her. Dibiase was always a marginal figure in any storyline other than the one's where he was wrestling.

 

Again, pre-1998 when was Vince involved? Sure, you had your Jack Tunney's and Gorilla Monsoon's in power positions but they were never made to look good at the expense of the actual talent.

 

Austin-McMahon?

 

How about the Shane/Vince vs. Stone Cold ladder match (with the mysterious rising briefcase)?

 

I said pre 1998. There are a few reason's why Austin-McMahon worked.

 

1. People could relate to the characters. Austin was the working man, Vince the evil boss, a story everyone can relate to.

 

The beloved son of the evil boss fighting off the horribly disfigured monster who was playing with matches as a kid and burned his parents to death. Well, most people can't really relate to that.

 

2. It was the first time it had been done where a non-wrestler played a central figure. It was edgy, it was fresh, and the non-wrestler also had himself surrounded with loads of wrestlers.

 

People don't want to see non-wrestlers feuding. The first time, yeah it was interesting, every other time after that no one has given a shit.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The beloved son of the evil boss fighting off the horribly disfigured monster who was playing with matches as a kid and burned his parents to death. Well, most people can't really relate to that.

 

Keyword: MOST.

 

You don't get it BWG, Vince is going for the tried, tested and true backwoods banjo-playing demographic. You kids and your Rock n Roll music, you just don't see the big picture..

[Brush with Greatness 0]

QUOTE (HartFan86 @ Aug 25 2003, 10:00 PM)

Austin is the only one who should be able to do it...because he's the most popular guy on the Raw roster.

 

Everyone else you have a valid point. 

 

No one should be putting over Austin whether he's popular or not. He's no longer a wrestler, therefore, REAL wrestlers shouldn't be making him look good every week. It's his time to do that and I'm tired of seeing him make all of the active roster look like wimps week in and week out. What's that do for your credibility when a near-cripple beats your ass? Who cares if it's Steve Austin? He's still a near-cripple and that's what I'm looking at when stuff like this goes down.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. What the fuck is the point of Austin making every one look like his bitch? You say he's the most popular guy on the Raw roster? It's because he's never made to look bad. Austin is useless in the ring and therefore should start putting over other talent. You want to get Randy Orton over? Have him give Austin a piledriver and put Austin off TV for a few months. I guarantee you've got a new star right there.

 

It's time to give up the toughest SOB persona when you can't deliver in the ring anymore.

[humongous2002 0]

Austin is the only one who should be able to do it...because he's the most popular guy on the Raw roster.

 

Everyone else you have a valid point.

It doesn't matter how popular Austin was(he isn't anymore), he still can't wrestle or be the top guy anymore. His promos suck and the fans still cheer for him because he's still being booked strong even though he is a non-wrestler now. Shane is another non-wrestler who's being booked stronger than the actual wrestlers, who's going to take Jericho and even Kane serious if they get their asses handed to them by a pudgy dorky looking McMahon, even my 80 year old grandmother could kick his ass in real life. Why couldn't they have RVD help out Shane to at least make it look that they needed 2 people to throw Kane into the burning dumpster, i know he is out selling the injury but the fans were chanting for him to help Shane and it would make him look strong by returning back so quick after being tombstoned onto the metal steps, but this is the World McMahon Ego-tainment.