MOTY for 2003

[Guest Ray]

Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble

 

 

 

 

 

Would have been even better if Angle had SOLD THE NECK~!

[Guest Coffey]

The topic title should be renamed to "What is the American 2003 Match Of The Year so far?"

 

I think it's Kurt Angle Vs. Chris Benoit @ Royal Rumble 2003. So, that's what I voted for.

 

I figured that XXX Vs. AMW would have a lot more votes.

[Use Your Illusion]

500 people is a lot smaller than say 15,000.

Oh god.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

London v. Danielson from Epic Encounter also was given a standing ovation by the crowd- and a chant of 'Thank You Both'.

 

And it was better then Angle v. Benoit.

Holy shit.......I can't believe it........I AGREE with you.......God help us all....

[iliketurtles]

Here's my argument...it's a lot easier to get the attention of 500, "smart mark" fans who go to ROH to watch wrestling as opposed to 15,000, common/mixed "smart mark"/mark fans who are there to see everything.

 

I'm sure I could get 500 people's attention for 45 minutes if I did the right things. That's probably one of the only things holding back on a match like Styles/London being a MOTY because you have to factor in the signficance of it and because ROH isn't a global promotion yet, then I really can't say they have match of the years. Sure, great matches and solid wrestling...but "the common folk" could give a shit about them.

 

I think I really don't have to defend myself anymore...just look at the poll.

[iliketurtles]

However, the crowd at Rumble had just come off HHH/Stiener and were nearly dead. Benoit and Angle got tossed into a sea of apathetic and bored fans and MADE them care. The early wrestling sequences got NO reaction, but by the end of the match everyone in the arena was on the edge of their seats. They managed to turn a dead arena into an exhausted standing ovation in 30 minutes and they EARNED Moty.

And I think I have to say I know this is 100% true more than anyone else because I was there (even though I think everyone knows that by now).

[bob_barron]

I'm sure I could get 500 people's attention for 45 minutes if I did the right things.

 

Explain Dragon v. Low Ki v. Joe v. Corino. That went 45 and didn't have the immense crowd heat that London v. Dragon had.

 

That's probably one of the only things holding back on a match like Styles/London being a MOTY

 

Know what's holding London v. Styles back is that Dragon v. London was better.

 

because you have to factor in the signficance of it

 

No you don't. What was the best match of the year? It doesn't matter if Angle v. Benoit saw Benoit get a standing O- London v. Dragon was the BETTER match.

 

and because ROH isn't a global promotion yet, then I really can't say they have match of the years.

 

That's bullshit- A ***** match is a ***** match. So by your logic- the MOTY can only come from the WWE? If ROH puts on the best match of the year it is not the MOTY?

 

Sure, great matches and solid wrestling...but "the common folk" could give a shit about them.

 

And that reduces the match quality how?

 

I think I really don't have to defend myself anymore...just look at the poll.

 

That's because more people have seen Benoit v. Angle then London v. Dragon- I don't see how that makes your argument

[iliketurtles]

So you are saying a ***** match doesn't factor in how significant it is and how many people see it?

 

So what if my sister and I had yelling arguments for 2 months, then I beat the shit out of my sister for 20 minutes in front of 300 people at my school and constantly beat on her arm...does that make it a ****1/4? Or if I wrestled my friend in a backyard fed match that was ****3/4 in front of 10 people?

 

And your statement about how only WWE can have MOTY is bullshit...NWA-TNA is now global, they are on PPV. And I'd say the cage match with AMW/XXX has more of chance of being match of the year then any ROH or Japan match mainly because more people saw it.

 

You even admitted it...more people voted for Benoit/Angle being MOTY because more people saw it/cared for it then some ROH match. It's not just like that on the internet...it's on like that everywhere so until ROH gets a cable/TV deal and starts to become known other then the Northeast and shows with 300 people...let me know.

 

Am I dissing on their wrestling quality? Absoultely not. But that doesn't mean it's MOTY, in my opinion...and about 65% of the people agree.

Edited September 14, 2003 by HartFan86

[The Ghost of bps21]

WWE: Benoit/Angle

 

TNA: Juvi/Sabin

[iliketurtles]

The topic title should be renamed to "What is the American 2003 Match Of The Year so far?"

The topic should be renamed to what is the WWE match of the year...or TNA match of the year...or Indy match of the year...or Puro match of the year.

 

It's not fair to just pick one.

 

So I'll go:

 

WWE: Benoit/Angle

 

TNA: AMW/XXX

[Guest The Old Me]

I went with Angle/Benoit.

 

 

Second would have to be XXX vs AMW cage match.

[bob_barron]

So you are saying a ***** match doesn't factor in how significant it is and how many people see it?

 

Yes I am- London v. Dragon was seen by 500 people while Angle v. Benoit was seen by millions but guess what-

 

London v. Dragon was the better match. It's the best match I've seen all year and that makes it MOTY.

 

I'm not going to say Angle v. Benoit was better just because Benoit got a standing ovation and there were more people in the crowd- That's not how I rate a match.

 

So what if my sister and I had yelling arguments for 2 months, then I beat the shit out of my sister for 20 minutes in front of 300 people at my school and constantly beat on her arm...does that make it a ****1/4? Or if I wrestled my friend in a backyard fed match that was ****3/4 in front of 10 people?

 

Send me the matches and I'll tell you how I rate it.

 

And your statement about how only WWE can have MOTY is bullshit...NWA-TNA is now global, they are on PPV. And I'd say the cage match with AMW/XXX has more of chance of being match of the year then any ROH or Japan match mainly because more people saw it.

 

MOTY according to whom? The board, Wrestling Observer, PWI?

 

You even admitted it...more people voted for Benoit/Angle being MOTY because more people saw it/cared for it then some ROH match

.

 

I still don't see how that improves the quality of Benoit v. Angle and lowers the quality of London v. Dragon.

 

Am I dissing on their wrestling quality? Absoultely not. But that doesn't mean it's MOTY, in my opinion...and about 65% of the people agree.

 

You like to argue that Benoit v. Angle had some sort of signifigance. What signifigance did it have in the long run?

 

Did Benoit get a push from it? No

 

Yes it showed that WWE fans can and will appreciate great wrestling but we knew that already.

[iliketurtles]

Am I dissing on their wrestling quality? Absoultely not. But that doesn't mean it's MOTY, in my opinion...and about 65% of the people agree.

 

You like to argue that Benoit v. Angle had some sort of signifigance. What signifigance did it have in the long run?

 

Did Benoit get a push from it? No

That's not what I'm saying. A big factor of having a MOTY is the match quality itself, but you should also factor in it's surroundings and signifigance of it.

 

MOTY according to whom? The board, Wrestling Observer, PWI?

 

For the TNA cage match? Anybody. More people saw it.

 

I still don't see how that improves the quality of Benoit v. Angle and lowers the quality of London v. Dragon.

 

I'm not saying it doesn't lower the wrestling quality of both matches, but it's a lot easier to get a crowd of 300 people who are there to watch wrestling and mostly smartmarks as opposed to 15,000 general wrestling fans, all mixed.

 

Am I dissing on their wrestling quality? Absoultely not. But that doesn't mean it's MOTY, in my opinion...and about 65% of the people agree.

 

You like to argue that Benoit v. Angle had some sort of signifigance. What signifigance did it have in the long run?

 

Did Benoit get a push from it? No

 

 

The signficance was it was 3 years in the making...and it built up to Benoit getting the standing ovation?

 

Using your thinking, it's okay to bring a match down because the bookers are fucking stupid and didn't push a guy after it but it's not okay to say crowd/overness of a match in general has anything to do with something being MOTY?

 

I don't get it. I know for a fact NO ONE would be saying I had a ****3/4 match of the year in a backyard fed (not saying I do), even if it really was.

 

And once again, this goes back to saying we should just do MOTY by seperate organizations...it's not fair to choice one because there is too many factors involved and it's not fair to either parties.

[CanadianChris]

The topic title should be renamed to "What is the American 2003 Match Of The Year so far?"

The topic should be renamed to what is the WWE match of the year...or TNA match of the year...or Indy match of the year...or Puro match of the year.

 

It's not fair to just pick one.

It may not be fair, but at the end of the year, there WILL be one match picked out of all the matches in all the promotions.

 

North American match of the year would probably be more accurate, but except for Steiners vs. Sasaki/Hase in 1991, a puro match has never been voted MOTY. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

[Fökai]

And once again, this goes back to saying we should just do MOTY by seperate organizations...it's not fair to choice one because there is too many factors involved and it's not fair to either parties.

It's been generally accepted since the beginning of professional wrestling territories. People based their MOTY's, with WWF/WCW/ECW factored in, simply by judging which the better match was.

 

It's why people will willfully justify saying HBK/UT at Badd Blood was better than Rey/Eddy at Havoc, just because they think it's the better match.

[bob_barron]

That's not what I'm saying. A big factor of having a MOTY is the match quality itself, but you should also factor in it's surroundings and signifigance of it.

 

London v. Danielson had tons of signifigance- almost as much as Benoit v. Angle.

 

For the TNA cage match? Anybody. More people saw it.

 

Then explain why London v. Danielson is leading the cage match?

 

 

I'm not saying it doesn't lower the wrestling quality of both matches, but it's a lot easier to get a crowd of 300 people who are there to watch wrestling and mostly smartmarks as opposed to 15,000 general wrestling fans, all mixed.

 

The crowd was around 550 btw. I think it's pretty hard to keep people chanting and going crazy for 42 minutes.

 

The signficance was it was 3 years in the making...and it built up to Benoit getting the standing ovation?

 

Using your thinking, it's okay to bring a match down because the bookers are fucking stupid and didn't push a guy after it but it's not okay to say crowd/overness of a match in general has anything to do with something being MOTY?

 

No- YOU'RE the one talking about the signifigance Benoit-Ange had and all that- when it really didn't. Considering Angle beat him again two weeks later.

 

I don't let outside circumstances affect a match- Londond v. Danielson was BETTER then Kurt v. Benoit and thus I make it my MOTY.

 

I don't get it. I know for a fact NO ONE would be saying I had a ****3/4 match of the year in a backyard fed (not saying I do), even if it really was.

 

Explain people praising the hell out of Punk v. Hero from IWA in February when there were only 100 people.

 

And once again, this goes back to saying we should just do MOTY by seperate organizations...it's not fair to choice one because there is too many factors involved and it's not fair to either parties.

 

I don't see a problem with it. I have my top 3 matches from TNA, WWE, ROH and then I have my overall top 3

[Lord of The Curry]

I don't get the XXX/AMW love. I really don't. Great heat, good match. Nothing innovative or mind blowing. That's about it. Harris blew enough spots that it was noticeable and they botched the ending spot w/ the first attempt at the Death Sentance. Not to mention the "Kill The Cowboy" chants coming from the heel section really killed AMW's heat.

 

Angle vs Benoit is hands down the MOTY, until I see Dragon vs London, but I don't think my mind would be changed.....

[Downhome]

That's not what I'm saying. A big factor of having a MOTY is the match quality itself, but you should also factor in it's surroundings and signifigance of it.

 

I don't understand what it matters how many people is there. When deciding for what match was MOTY, for me anyway, I go simply by what was presented in the ring, period. I don't care if a match is in front of two people or 20,000. However many people is watching the match has nothing at all to do with the pure work in the ring.

[HellSpawn]

1] Angle - Benoit, Rumble

 

2] Jericho - Michaels, WM

[HellSpawn]

I do believe people watching should be involved.

The crow adds SHOW and Drama to the match.

Thats why some guys bring their double standards, they take crowd heat as good, if the match is from their fav wrestlers, and they take offf the crowd if they dont like the wrestlers...

Example:

*Guerrero - Benoit, Armageddon 2002.

Great match, Crow? dead

People "dont care" and still called it MOTYC

 

Jericho - HHH, WM X8

Good match, Crowd? Dead

People now cares about the crowd and bashed the match because they didnt turn on the people.

 

Im not saying Jericho - HHH was MOTYC, but I think its a good example of some double standards about the crowd and the "add value" to some match.

 

*Edit: I change Angle -> Guerrero, I made a mistake and mixed the guys

Edited October 12, 2003 by HellSpawn

[Mystery Eskimo]

London-Dragon 2/3 falls is great, but Dragon using the single leg crab to work the knee and get a fall just spoils it for me, as crabs hurt the back, not the knee.

[Guest krazykat72]

undecided right now, but leaning towards

 

Naomichi Marufuji & Kenta vs Jushin Liger & Takehiro Murahama 7/03 NOAH

 

Also:

 

Benoit/Angle

Misawa Kobashi

Michaels/Jericho

 

Just miss the cut

 

Rey&Kidman vs. WGTT (Vengeance)

Low-Ki vs. Styles Zero-1 1/03

 

still waiting for

Kanemura & Hashi vs. Marufuji & Kenta

and

Nagata vs. Kobashi 9/03 NOAH

 

 

-Paul Jacobi-

[The Ghost of bps21]

"Michaels/Jericho"

 

I'll never understand.

[RavishingRickRudo]

Someone needs to walk me through how Dragon/London 2/3 falls was better than Angle/Benoit.

[Tim Cooke]

Do you really need walked through? I'll be more than happy to do it, but bring something to the table so it isn't a complete waste of time.

 

Tim, noting that if Benoit hadn't worked one of the smarter segments in his WWE career in the first 10 minutes of that match, it would have turned out even worse.

 

Tim

[tpww7]

1- Angle/Benoit

2- Styles/London (6/14 ROH)

3- London-Danielson (4/12 ROH)

4- Homicide-Corino (8/16 ROH)

[Jack_Bauer]

I voted Paul London v American Dragon.

 

Reason : The other match I thought that could be better was Benoit v Angle. But while that was amazing, the 2/3 Falls London v Dragon just had me watching with my mouth hanging open by the end. It was an absolute classic IMO.

[RavishingRickRudo]

Well I got both matches on my computer, so I'm game for a lively discussion. I might have to watch the 2/3 falls on mute though in order to get through it again.

 

Look at the work after the "10 count" - it's brilliant.

[CheesalaIsGood]

For me Angle/Benoit is the MOTY. I was so down in the dumps realising that the match I had ordered the PPV for was gonna have to follow the stinker that was HHH/Steiner. But being the wrestling gods they are, Angle and Benoit won the crowd back in a big way. The way the crowd reacted to the 3rd flying headbutt attempt... I was awestruck.

 

Haven't seen any ROH as of yet. But some of the matches discussed here seems like a good guide to find some quality matches.

 

I have Misawa/Kobashi on the way in the mail, which I have heard surpasses Angle/Benoit, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

Big ups to Michaels/Jericho as well as TWGTT vs The Filthy Animals.

[Lord of The Curry]

Someone needs to walk me through how Dragon/London 2/3 falls was better than Angle/Benoit.

I also need a walk through, apparently. I dug the match, especially Dragon's heel work but I don't think it was MOTY.