TNA Contract News from the Observer

[Guest OSIcon]

From the ROH board where it was re-typed from the actual newsletter:

 

The contracts are exclusive meaning that they give TNA the right to approve of every wrestler's indy booking. TNA pretty much becomes the booking agent of all talent under contract.

 

The contracts do not have a specific salary level per PPV appearance and do not guarantee a certain number of bookings during the year thus there are no technical downside guarantees.

 

Wrestlers must give the promotion a written notice if they are not going to be available on a wednesday. This is mainly for folks who work Japanese tours. This gives the company the ability to contruct long term storylines but cause All Japan and Zero-One don't give dates far in advance, this is going to cause trouble with some of the younger talent. The reason being i s most of the younger indie talent aspire to go to Japan because without a WWE gig, Japan is still a place to earn the most money unless you're an established guy like Raven who can get 1,500 a shot and pick and choose where he wants to work. The guy most affected by this is Low-Ki

 

Not signing pretty much guarantees no major push in TN but signing theoritically means giving up WWE hopes but also Japansese opportunities for 2 years, except for New Japan and NOAH where the dates are arranged far enough in advance.

 

Most of the names used on the top of the card have already signed deals so this affects the mid-card and lower level performers.

 

From a US standpoint, the deals will GREATLY affect indy wrestling around the country. Most of the TNA regulars work weekends for indies around the country, so in most cases the company doesn't care. The exceptions are MLW, since it has television, and RoH, because of its high profile. In both cases, TNA isn't going to prevent talent from working with either but they don't want their storylines and characters compromised. Meaning they don't want someone who is a babyface there to work as a heel in either promotion. They also don't want folks who are aligned together in TNA to wrestle against each other elsewhere.

 

RoH has had talks with TNA but no serious guidlines have been set. They have been asked to use similar storylines but RoH officials aren't trying to hear what TNA is saying in that regards. RoH slapped TNA in the face with the fact that TNA changes its booking so often, while RoH books long-term and they aren't going to be at TNA's mercy and have to change their booking plans when TNA decides to change their own storylines.

 

That's pretty lousy. TNA needs to realize that they are as much of an Indy as ROH and MLW. I can see where their line of thinking, but making eneimies with other promotions and potentially alientating other wrestlers is never a good idea. Having consistent storylines throughout different Indies is not a huge deal at all.

 

This was also in the last observer, but I don't think its a direct quote (rather a paraphrase from the person who posted it at the ROH board):

 

"Another tidbit on the canceled Raven-CM Punk hair matchup from RoH. Raven was told by the Jarretts that if he lost his hair in the matchup, he wouldn't appear on TNA again until he grew it back."

 

I'll leave that alone...

 

Thoughts?

[JN News 0]

EDIT:Nevermind, this post was irrelavent.

Edited September 16, 2003 by JN News

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

That's not a huge deal as I doubt the Jarrett's are going to interfere much in a wrestler's indy bookings.

 

And I believe they have every right to tell their top face that if he's going to lose a stip match where his appearance will be drastically altered that he isn't going to be appearing for awhile.

[Guest OSIcon]

And I believe they have every right to tell their top face that if he's going to lose a stip match where his appearance will be drastically altered that he isn't going to be appearing for awhile.

 

See, that's where the problem is. Raven isn't really their wrestler. He is just an indy wrestler who also works for TNA. TNA is the spot where they want to be the number two promotion but they don't have the money/means to pay all wrestlers enough money for working one day a week so that they no long have to take Indy bookings on the weekends.

 

It was either Raven had to keep his hair or lose a weekly paycheck. There was nothing that TNA could do contractually to make Raven keep his hair (at least that's what I gather from Meltzer's talks on the subject so far). So it was just an ultimatum: do this or you will lose your pay for a while. I guess there is nothing illegal about it, but it really is a bullying business decision. Its along the same lines of things that the WWE does that everyone jumps all over them for.

 

Not to mention that Raven was going to get a bigger cut then usual from ROH for losing his hair (that's why there was a bid over the rights to the match). WHo knows weater TNA is going to match that offer or not when Raven loses to Douglas, but they really don't have to. They are in the position of being able to give Raven less money then ROH offered for the haircut because TNA is the only fed he can do it in if he wants to stay on TNA PPV every week. So Raven is most likely going to also get jipped a little on money (TNA may pay him what ROH was going to when they won the "bid", but they don't have to.)

 

The contract thing COULD be a big deal if everything Meltzer said is what TNA officials are thinking. If thats the case and guys like Raven and Punk sign TNA contracts, they will try and get their feuds to stop in ROH and MLW. For one reason or another, Meltzer is under the impression that's going to happen.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

The thing that seperates Raven in TNA from Raven in every other indy is this:

 

He has a written contract with TNA.

[Guest OSIcon]

Does his contract say anything about TNA being able to stop him from doing certain stipulation matches in other promotions?

 

Apparently not or else I think Meltzer and others would have clarified the whole situation by saying "Raven couldn't do the match in ROH because of his TNA contract." Instead, its being reported that TNA just threatened to not use him if he did the match which gives the impression he COULD have legally done the match. Again, not saying that I know what his contract says, but from what has been reported it doesn't seem as if his contract was keeping him from losing his hair in ROH.

 

These new contracts are a different story of course, but this was before all this "exclusivity" stuff came up.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

The written contract means that Roh respected it enough to back off and except it...so they must be worth something.

 

It makes TNA his main place of employment...since he works their every week under contract.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

They didn't tell him that he couldn't do the match.

 

They just said they wouldn't use him if he had his hair cut off.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

WOW, how TNA is really starting to piss me off.....

[Guest OSIcon]

The written contract means that Roh respected it enough to back off and except it...so they must be worth something.

 

It makes TNA his main place of employment...since he works their every week under contract.

 

That's really not the point or accurate. If you take what Meltzer has said as the complete facts, then Raven not doing the match in ROH had NOTHING to do with his contract in TNA (I am not saying Meltzer is 100 percent accurate but since he is the main/only source on this so far, you have to take his word as fact until someone else closer to the situation comments). ROH didn't back down. It was Raven's decision. He had the choice of either doing the ROH match and missing out on a month plus of paychecks from TNA, or staying on TNA TV and getting rid of the ROH match. That's what has been said so far about the situation and I don't see where in that ROH backed down because of Raven's contract or where Raven's contract came into play at all.

 

That's all I am saying. The contract (as far as we know right now) played no part in the ROH match being called off.

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

If Raven loses his hair, does RoH have a right to be angry?? HELL YEAH!! That was their storyline. Maybe TNA didn't want CM Punk, one of Raven's lackey's in TNA giving him the hair cut.

[Silence 0]

If Raven loses his hair, does RoH have a right to be angry?? HELL YEAH!! That was their storyline. Maybe TNA didn't want CM Punk, one of Raven's lackey's in TNA giving him the hair cut.

*cough cough* TNA=WWE 2.0 *cough cough*

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

TNA is 100% totally in the right here. Working for them is a job, not a right, for indy wrestlers, and if they don't want to follow TNA's rules then they can make the simple decision not to work there. And if they actually sign a written contract, they should know the restrictions that come with it. TNA's business is to make enough money to survive and eventually let themselves grow and expand, not to play nice with little indy feds who are of no consequence to them.

[Astro101 0]

I don't really watch other indies, so I don't care that greatly. But I don't think TNA should have say in other promotion's angles.

[Silence 0]

I don't really watch other indies, so I don't care that greatly. But I don't think TNA should have say in other promotion's angles.

Exactly. Why should Jerry Lynn leave James Mitchell's Army of Darkness in MLW all of a sudden just because he's still a face in TNA? Why should CM Punk's feud with Raven in MLW and ROH stop without reason just because he's a lackey to him currently in TNA?

[Vyce 0]

Am I one of the only ones who supports TNA here?

 

If they truly want to become a strong number two promotion, they need to pull moves such as this - not only does it establish dominance over indy competitors, but it also protects them from talent raids by the WWE, one of their main vulnerabilities.

 

This is natural progression for them.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"TNA is 100% totally in the right here."

 

No they aren't but let's see why you think so.

 

"Working for them is a job, not a right, for indy wrestlers, and if they don't want to follow TNA's rules then they can make the simple decision not to work there."

 

Which is what guys like Low Ki are going to do. AJ Styles *may* be the world champion but he has stated he likes wrestling at ROH a lot more. ROH is running two times a month now. In November, they run 3 times. 1 more time per month and they run the same as TNA. Which does Styles stay with?

 

"And if they actually sign a written contract, they should know the restrictions that come with it."

 

*nod*

 

"TNA's business is to make enough money to survive"

 

No, business goals are to make profit. TNA needs to a financial backer to stay alive right now as they don't make any profit on a house gate nor do they come close to breaking even with PPV buy rates. So that is a false statement.

 

"and eventually let themselves grow and expand"

 

I have seen NO signs of expanding. TNA runs one building each week. They don't even have enough power to run when the country fair is in town. ROH has run Philadelphia, Elizabeth, NJ, Boston, Pittsburgh, CT, and Ohio, making a profit on each show from live attendance alone, not even counting the videos. That is growing and expanding.

 

"not to play nice with little indy feds who are of no consequence to them."

 

That is why they cut off Raven from doing the ahir vs. hair stip? Because they don't care.

 

Christ, some TNA apologists will say anything for this company.

 

Tim

[Guest EN090]

"TNA is 100% totally in the right here."

 

No they aren't but let's see why you think so.

 

Yes, they are.

 

Which is what guys like Low Ki are going to do. AJ Styles *may* be the world champion but he has stated he likes wrestling at ROH a lot more. ROH is running two times a month now. In November, they run 3 times. 1 more time per month and they run the same as TNA. Which does Styles stay with?

 

I'm glad you can speak personally for Low Ki, Tim.

 

Which does AJ Styles stay with? He's with TNA right now and I doubt they'd put THE belt on a guy who isn't tied up.

 

No, business goals are to make profit. TNA needs to a financial backer to stay alive right now as they don't make any profit on a house gate nor do they come close to breaking even with PPV buy rates. So that is a false statement

 

I have seen NO signs of expanding. TNA runs one building each week. They don't even have enough power to run when the country fair is in town. ROH has run Philadelphia, Elizabeth, NJ, Boston, Pittsburgh, CT, and Ohio, making a profit on each show from live attendance alone, not even counting the videos. That is growing and expanding.

 

Point 1: TNA's goal is to make as much money as they possibly can by any means necessary.

 

Point 2: No signs of expansion? Wow, Tim, you truly are a moron. Let's see... a video game deal announcement any day, exclusive contracts, tons of added replays during the week on PPV, DVD deal, etc. Most importantly, I can't even see ROH unless I go online, order a video tape, wait for 5 days and then watch it. With TNA, I can basically turn on a PPV channel and order it any day of the week. Not only can I do that but some guy sitting in Israel right now can do the same. And another guy in Australia can do the same thing. That's world-wide viewing ability. Still wanna talk about expansion?

 

Does ROH run different towns? Yeah but do they don't pay to run a LIVE PPV show each week do they? IF TNA focused on just doing live shows and didn't have to worry about costs for running a LIVE PPV each week, they'd be able to run different towns as well.

 

That is why they cut off Raven from doing the ahir vs. hair stip? Because they don't care.

 

No, it's pretty simple actually - because they wanted to do it on their show. Funny how TNA, which in your words is pretty powerless, is able to completely screw an "expanding and thriving" ROH and do the hair v. hair match on live on PPV, forcing ROH to do a steel cage match which, by most accounts, absolutely sucked.

 

It's also pretty funny that a company who you claim has no power is able to sign guys to exclusive contracts while ROH can't.

 

Bottom line is that TNA realizes they need to to absolutely everything to survive and thrive. I know it's a foreign concept to you, Tim, but the only way ANY company might be able to one day take on WWE is by doing what TNA is doing right now, whether you like it or not.

[bob_barron 0]

Funny how TNA, which in your words is pretty powerless, is able to completely screw an "expanding and thriving" ROH and do the hair v. hair match on live on PPV, forcing ROH to do a steel cage match which, by most accounts, absolutely sucked.

 

The cage match was signed WITH a hair v. hair stipulation. So they were always going to do a cage match.

 

Hell they announced it on July 20th. And how does the cage match being dissapointing have anything to do with the topic at hand?

[Guest EN090]

My bad, I thought it was just supposed to be a hair vs. hair match. Didn't realize it was originally announced as a cage match as well.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

TNA does have to do this if they want to be a clear cut number 2, but they aren't a clear cut number 2. They have no TV deal, no touring, and are losing money. And I think if they do try and get guys to choose between them and the other indys and/or Japan, it could bite them in the ass.

[Guest TheGame2705]

TNA's trying to be the bully with ROH like WWE was with ECW and everyone shat on WWE but they're praising TNA. I actually am rooting for ROH and I haven't seen a damn thing of theirs. It's just that so far Jarrett has put himself over as priority number 1, they're trying to get everyone on lockdown, and they aren't a hot commodity on PPV nor are they even on TV. Add to that that you have to pay $10 to see WWE Lite every week when you can see WWE for free twice a week and you have a situation where TNA thinks it's bigger than it really is.

[Guest OSIcon]

Point 1: TNA's goal is to make as much money as they possibly can by any means necessary.

That should probably be changed to “make any money at all.” Objectively, TNA is not succeeding at all from a money-making standpoint. Anywhere from half to ¾’s of their crowd is papered each week. Reports on their buyrates have them well below the 20,000 mark (which is their new “break even point”). Not to mention they seem to be bringing in more and more expensive wrestlers/non-wrestling talent each week. They are certainly not making money and probably consistently losing money instead. This doesn’t have much to do with the topic except to point out that maybe TNA should worry about making money before worrying about the WWE taking their wrestlers and indy feds not using their storylines.

 

Point 2: No signs of expansion? Wow, Tim, you truly are a moron. Let's see... a video game deal announcement any day, exclusive contracts, tons of added replays during the week on PPV, DVD deal, etc. Most importantly, I can't even see ROH unless I go online, order a video tape, wait for 5 days and then watch it. With TNA, I can basically turn on a PPV channel and order it any day of the week. Not only can I do that but some guy sitting in Israel right now can do the same. And another guy in Australia can do the same thing. That's world-wide viewing ability. Still wanna talk about expansion?

 

Again, are they making money? Expansion is only good if a company is ready to expand. I don’t see how a company who is not making money is ready to expand. ECW expanded a lot, yet they were also in financial trouble. They had a video game, similar contracts, a PPV-deal, and a cable deal. Yet they weren’t ready for a lot of that stuff. Perhaps if they didn’t expand so quickly, they would still be around. WCW had a motion picture, video games, a restaurant, ect…you name it, they had it. They were always expanding. Of course, that expansion cost them a lot of money and lead to their demise.

 

So expanding is not a sign of a company doing good. There is “good” expansion (like ROH drawing well in three markets so expanding out to a few more markets and drawing well there). Then there is what TNA is doing (losing money but still spending more in order to expand).

 

No, it's pretty simple actually - because they wanted to do it on their show. Funny how TNA, which in your words is pretty powerless, is able to completely screw an "expanding and thriving" ROH and do the hair v. hair match on live on PPV, forcing ROH to do a steel cage match which, by most accounts, absolutely sucked.

 

Do people just enjoy ignoring the facts? The fact as we know it at this time is that Raven came to both companies saying he wanted to lose a hair match. Both were interesting so the match would go to whoever would give Raven the bigger bonus for doing the deed. ROH outbid TNA and announced the match. TNA starts scrapping, not wanting the match to happen elsewhere. So they virtually blackmail Raven by saying he either doesn’t do the match in ROH or else he will be off TNA as long as he is without hair (which most likely means he would be without his TNA paycheck for that time). I don’t see where in that TNA “got one up” on ROH there. All they did was use an underhand tactic to basically make Raven chose between getting paid or doing the match he committed to. If the WWE did something like this, everyone would be screaming and shouting about how bad they treat their wrestlers. I guess when TNA forces a wrestler to miss a big payoff elsewhere, that’s okay.

 

It's also pretty funny that a company who you claim has no power is able to sign guys to exclusive contracts while ROH can't.

 

I am fairly sure ROH could sign people to similar contracts that stated their wrestlers can’t work anywhere else in the US on Saturdays if ROH is running a show. 99 percent of their wrestlers DO work for ROH if they are in the US on that day. ROH wouldn’t do the Japan thing because they like seeing their wrestlers be able to go to Japan and make a lot of money there (more then they make in TNA plus more exposure). I think the main difference is that ROH realizes it is not direct competition for the WWE at this point. TNA is delusional enough to believe they are.

 

Bottom line is that TNA realizes they need to to absolutely everything to survive and thrive. I know it's a foreign concept to you, Tim, but the only way ANY company might be able to one day take on WWE is by doing what TNA is doing right now, whether you like it or not.

 

I think a company needs to make money first before they can worry about “taking on the WWE.”

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Damn, someone beat me to responding. That guy must be a fellow WON subscriber

 

TNA fanboys are like Opie and Anthony fanboys...they suck, they will be gone, but they will always believe in them.

 

Tim

[Guest TDinDC1112]

Damn, someone beat me to responding. That guy must be a fellow WON subscriber

 

TNA fanboys are like Opie and Anthony fanboys...they suck, they will be gone, but they will always believe in them.

 

Tim

I like TNA, and I loved O&A, so I guess you think I suck? OH well. But I also get the WON, and since I pay for it I don't feel like typing it on here for people who don't pay for it to see, but that's another issue. By the way, O&A will be back in about a year when their contract is up, so enjoy it while it lasts.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Just a small joke about Gregg and Acne. They will be back in a year...on Satelitte Radio most likely.

 

Tim

[JHawk 0]

I don't really watch other indies, so I don't care that greatly. But I don't think TNA should have say in other promotion's angles.

Exactly. Why should Jerry Lynn leave James Mitchell's Army of Darkness in MLW all of a sudden just because he's still a face in TNA? Why should CM Punk's feud with Raven in MLW and ROH stop without reason just because he's a lackey to him currently in TNA?

Point well taken here, but let me also add one thing to this. Many of the fans that follow TNA also follow ROH (I'm among them). Many of those also follow MLW. While we all know they're separate promotions with separates set of storylines, why shouldn't they at least keep people aligned the same way? Particularly when you consider ROH has been allowed to have NWA title matches on their shows?

 

What sense did it make for Christopher Daniels and Low-Ki to feud for months in a feud so highly publicized that even Pro Wrestling Illustrated did several stories on it...only to have Daniels and Low-Ki team up in TNA while the ROH feud was still going on? How do you think MLW fans feel when they tune into their first edition of TNA after watching MLW for the last six months and seeing people who have been fighting each other teaming up while others who have been teaming up don't even associate with each other?

 

It's not like TNA s undercutting some local rinky dink fed in the Nashville area. They're trying to undercut what are arguably the two top indy promotions in the country by starting storylines that make no sense with existing storylines in feds with as much of a following as TNA.

 

I'm not saying either fed should change storylines, but they should work around what's going on in them for the sake of the fans' sanity.

[OldSchoolWrestling 0]

I totally agree with that. I just started watching MLW last month and was very confused to see Jerry Lynn as a heel. One minute in TNA they're talking about wanting to care for his daughter at home and needing the money, then next he's in MLW fighting for something totally different. Yes we all know its fake and they can do their own storylines, but when we can suspend disbelief we can mark a little easier.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

My only point to make:

 

Anyone who has ever ordered a Ring of Honor tape or ordered a TNA show...

 

KNOWS THAT WRESTLING IS FAKE.

 

I seriously doubt anyone who can find the RoH website and order themselves a tape will have any trouble understanding why Punk is Raven's friend in one fed and his foe in another.

[Guest Markingout]

"My only point to make:

 

Anyone who has ever ordered a Ring of Honor tape or ordered a TNA show...

 

KNOWS THAT WRESTLING IS FAKE.

 

I seriously doubt anyone who can find the RoH website and order themselves a tape will have any trouble understanding why Punk is Raven's friend in one fed and his foe in another."

 

Then,whats the point of doing a storyline or an angle if everyone knows its fake. What would be the point of a fued if everyone knew it was super fake. If you go to a show,and cheer everyone it messes up the angles and deminishs the angles like TNA is doing.

 

TNA is screwing over the indies bad. My two favorites ROH and MLW,too . Stupid TNA,I hate the Jaretts. I know they are driving themselves out of buisness. They are doing the written contracts way to quickly. There numbers are down,and they don't have a TV deal. Stupid TNA,go out of buisness.