The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Cavi 0]

Yeah, true. Wonky Buffyverse physics.

[Anakin Flair 0]

I was kinda disappointed by this ep. Spike was pretty funny, but it's almost as if we got a bit of a Spike overdose here. I don't think I like the idea of Spike as the wacky ghost sidekick. But that'll probably change in a few eps, I'm sure.

THAT's what was bugging me! Maybe it was just to much Spike to soon...

[Ripper 0]

1: To respond to a earlier comment, Spike DID have a thing for Willow. He likes his skinney women. Harmony was the exception and you would be hard pressed to say that he liked her.

 

2: I liked the Ep. Marsters accent did fade from time to time, but hey, thats just nitpicking. I loved his and Angels interaction. And even though the scene at the graveyard was all part of the set up, I think there was a bit of sencerity in that "I'm glad you're the one that's doing it speech."

 

3: The end is what made the show. Knowing that Spike is probably going to hell(the reason that he didn't really want Angel to destroy the amulet I'm guessing) is really chilling and he played the emotions perfectly in his scene with Fred.

 

4: This was a Spike centric episode so he was most of the screen time. We know that they do different eps for different characters so the uselessness of Wes so far this season doesn't bother me...yet. I do argue with Gunn being unused. He was a major part of this weeks story, and his "I know the law" story is going to be big, and I think we all know it.

 

5: Harmony is a great addition to the cast. She is stupid, but isn't so over the top that its annoying. Good job. And she handles the plunging neck line now that Cordy is gone.

 

6: Freds legs remain on display for two weeks running. I'm going to start doing a leg count for the show. I'm sorry though...skinny girls legs do not make up for the non-lilahness. Lilah should just show up with the glasses again like last year. I'll be happy then.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Spike sitting in the car annoyed me... so he can stand and sit on things, but everything else he can pass through? Does that mean he could sit on Angels head?

[Ripper 0]

Spike sitting in the car annoyed me... so he can stand and sit on things, but everything else he can pass through? Does that mean he could sit on Angels head?

I tried to figure it out, but then I just thought about how incredibly limited the show would be if he was TRUELY non corporial, so I just let them get away with it.

 

I was more WTF when he was siting in the chair. Then while Iwas watching the rest of the scene I was like "If he rocks in that fucking chair, I'm writing a letter."

 

I mean truely, he shouldn't be able to walk on the ground. But I guess he kinda really is there if the Neomancer can pull him as he wants. And he has a heat presense, so he is KINDA there.

[Guest stardust]

Didn't Fred say that he isn't really a true ghost, but some other sort of thing, since there is the presence of heat and all? And c'mon, think about the movie Ghost, in which Swayze's character could move things if he concentrated enough. I dunno, I just kinda accepted the sitting and such, along with the being able to walk through things. And who knows, it's Joss, we might have an explanation coming further into the season.

[Mole 0]

I think we are nipicking a little too much.

 

Too much Spike? I could never get too much of Spike. However, the way his character is, he could never carry his own show.

[Guest stardust]

I agree, Mole. I don't think there could be such a thing as too much Spike.

[Ripper 0]

The Marsters mark over m'yeah isn't complaining.

[Mole 0]

Didn't Fred say that he isn't really a true ghost, but some other sort of thing, since there is the presence of heat and all? And c'mon, think about the movie Ghost, in which Swayze's character could move things if he concentrated enough. I dunno, I just kinda accepted the sitting and such, along with the being able to walk through things. And who knows, it's Joss, we might have an explanation coming further into the season.

Harmony did call him Patrick Swayze.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Spike also has a shadow...

 

YEAH. Crazy.

 

I don't think this is nitpicking as "Spike can pass through stuff" is a major part of his character/gimmick. The shadow thing is nitpicking.

[Mole 0]

Eh, in a few weeks he will be in 'vampire form' again.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

So I'm watching "Hero" and I noticed that Doyle told Cordy about Angel being human for a day so I guess technically he's not the only one that knows about it...but he is the only one that lived it.

 

EDIT: Well they didn't pull any punches on making the Scourge a Nazi-like demon group.

Edited October 9, 2003 by LaParkaYourCar

[BorneAgain 0]

So I'm watching "Hero" and I noticed that Doyle told Cordy about Angel being human for a day so I guess technically he's not the only one that knows about it...but he is the only one that lived it.

 

EDIT: Well they didn't pull any punches on making the Scourge a Nazi-like demon group.

This is the first time I've seen Hero in a while, and dammed if it I didn't misty eyed when I saw the ending. Doyle in that commercial take talking how "When the chips are down, you can come to us, and see how there are still heroes in the world." And then he looks into the camera and says, "Am I done?". Some powerful stuff there.

[Mecha Mummy 0]

So I'm watching "Hero" and I noticed that Doyle told Cordy about Angel being human for a day so I guess technically he's not the only one that knows about it...but he is the only one that lived it.

 

EDIT: Well they didn't pull any punches on making the Scourge a Nazi-like demon group.

This is the first time I've seen Hero in a while, and dammed if it I didn't misty eyed when I saw the ending. Doyle in that commercial take talking how "When the chips are down, you can come to us, and see how there are still heroes in the world." And then he looks into the camera and says, "Am I done?". Some powerful stuff there.

My sister was in tears after we re-watched that episode last week. I was of the misty eyed as well.

 

Of course, Wesley filled the gap quite well, but still.

[Hank Kingsley 0]

Off topic for Angel, but since the Buffy thread is closed, oh well.

 

It should be noted that "Once More, With Feeling" will be on FX tomorrow at 5. ROCK!

[Guest wrestlingbs]

I maybe have missed this, but what's up with the actress who plays Cordy? I know what the character is doing, but did the actress quit? Go on hiatus? What?

[Golgo 13 0]

No one one really knows.

 

At IMDB's board for Angel there was an article posted some time ago, with Joss saying that he took Cordy (the character) as far as he could take her, and that was it.

 

There was also thought that Charisma was out due to Marsters coming on (they needed to free up money).

 

Though I believe one or the other has been stated as saying that they would like to wrap up the Cordelia storyline for good, but there are no definitive plans.

 

Edit: Here we go... it was an interview from TV Guide.

 

Angel Mystery: Will Cordy Wake Up?

by Michael Ausiello

 

Now that Angelus and Co. have assumed control of Wolfram & Hart on Angel, we suggest they use their new seat of power to solve the show's biggest mystery: What the heck happened to Charisma Carpenter and her alter ego Cordelia? Carpenter — a former Buffy cast member who, like David Boreanaz, has been with the show since its inception — went off to have a baby last season and hasn't been heard from since. (Cordy remains in a coma on the show.) Making matters more murky, a new Angel cast list makes no mention of the actress. The WB and 20th Century Fox have been cagey about the omission, and numerous attempts to make contact with Carpenter's agent have proven unsuccessful. So, what's a journalist to do? Go straight to the big boss himself, Joss Whedon.

 

 

TV Guide Online: Why was Charisma's name removed from next season's cast list?

Joss Whedon: Mainly because we felt like we had taken that story — just like Buffy for seven years — about as far as it could go. The Angel/Cordelia [love story] had gone pretty much as far as we wanted to take it. Their romance was definitely not a popular move on our part, and I think with most fans. It just seemed like it was time because we were revamping the show, and then paring it down... it just seemed like a good time for certain people to move on. Not completely, obviously. I'm hoping that we'll get Charisma to do some episodes as Cordelia sometime during the year. She's a new mother, so, like Sarah [Michelle Gellar], I'm waiting to hear what her schedule is like. But it just seemed creatively like... I once said that I finally got to tell the story of Buffy that I tried to tell in the movie, and I did it with Cordelia. Which was the story of someone who was completely ditzy and self-involved becoming kind of heroic. But the way the series was different from the movie was that I didn't know where you go from there. So, I felt like we spent seven years playing that very arc, and it had played. Like Buffy itself, it's time to look at something new.

 

TVGO: Isn't that a disservice to fans who invested all those years in the character and her redemption? It seems an odd thing to do to the show's leading lady.

Whedon: That's a fluctuating concept, the leading lady thing. And it is a little odd. Some choices are ultimately kind of controversial about who stays and who goes and who we focus on. But obviously, we had to have her out of a bunch of episodes toward the end of the year because she was having a baby... so what we had [leading] up to it wasn't a dynamic I wanted to play out that much. The fact is, this is not the end — unless Charisma herself says, "You know what? I don't feel like doing any recurring episodes." But when you have an increasingly large ensemble week-by-week, and you come in in your [fifth] year kind of having to revamp the show and trim the budget and also think creatively, "How am I going to service all of these people?," sometimes the people who have been around the longest, you've done the most with them.

 

TVGO: Some are speculating that she was a casualty of James Marsters's cross over as Spike next season. Like, there wasn't enough money in the budget to pay for them both, so she got the boot.

Whedon: That's a hell of a thing to lay on James. It was a creative decision that we made before Spike came over to the show, and like I said, I don't intend to leave Cordelia in a coma for the rest of the Buffyverse. But the creative decision to have the character step down happened long before negotiations with James [started]. It should not be laid at his feet.

 

TVGO: Were things left on good terms with Charisma?

Whedon: Yeah, but that's also stuff between us and not stuff that I would talk about in an interview.

 

And from that same IMDB thread... Half an interview with Charisma from the Boston Herald...

 

See Charisma act: But not on `Angel'

By Amy Amatangelo

Friday, August 15, 2003

 

Fans were shocked when they learned that Charisma Carpenter, who stars in this weekend's ABC Family movie ``See Jane Date,'' would not be returning to the WB's ``Angel'' for the show's fifth season.

 

The actress - who played the hilariously frank Cordelia Chase for three seasons on ``Buffy the Vampire Slayer'' and for four on ``Angel'' - was equally stunned.

 

``I was not prepared,'' Carpenter said in a phone interview. ``I don't think you're ever prepared for that kind of situation. Seven years, that's a long time. I started that show. To not be finishing it is a pretty big deal for me. They went back to work on July 24 . . . On that day I thought, `Oh, today is officially my first day of unemployment.' ''

 

Last spring, Carpenter returned to ``Angel'' just 10 days after giving birth to her son, Donovan, and spent two long days on the set, wrapping up the season. She said she is absolutely willing to return to the series to provide closure to her character's story arc and bring the beloved Cordy out of the coma in which she remained during last season's finale.

 

``I think it would be incomplete if it wasn't addressed but I don't know what's being planned,'' she said. ``I haven't heard anything. As we speak today, there are no plans for me to come back.''

 

She has not talked with series co-creator and executive producer Joss Whedon why Cordelia will not be working at Wolfram & Hart with the rest of the gang in the fall. ``I haven't had that discussion with Joss. It's really none of my business, actually. I'm sure as far as storytelling goes, he will not disappoint. He wants what's best for his fans.

 

``It's obviously going to take adjusting,'' she said. ``It's sad in some aspects and very exciting in others. Working with the same people for so long, you feel safe in your exploration of a character, but it's really exciting to work with a different group of people and wonder, `What's my next assignment?' `Angel' and `Buffy' are so special to me. None of the things that happen to me from now on would be possible without the experience on `Buffy' and `Angel.' I'd never be able to carry my own show.''

Edited October 9, 2003 by KingOfOldSchool

[Anakin Flair 0]

So I'm watching "Hero" and I noticed that Doyle told Cordy about Angel being human for a day so I guess technically he's not the only one that knows about it...but he is the only one that lived it.

 

EDIT: Well they didn't pull any punches on making the Scourge a Nazi-like demon group.

This is the first time I've seen Hero in a while, and dammed if it I didn't misty eyed when I saw the ending. Doyle in that commercial take talking how "When the chips are down, you can come to us, and see how there are still heroes in the world." And then he looks into the camera and says, "Am I done?". Some powerful stuff there.

My sister was in tears after we re-watched that episode last week. I was of the misty eyed as well.

 

Of course, Wesley filled the gap quite well, but still.

I watched Hero, adn I nearly cried at the end. I never cry. I also just finished reading "Chosen", which was the novelization of the entire 7th season, adn I got some tears in my eye at the end of it.

 

Incidently, I finally figured out what was throwing me 0ff- Spike in the opening credits. Maybe it's because he just started, but all of the scenes in there, it made me think back to "Superstar", when they put Jonathan in the opening credits.

 

And was it just me, or was Spike extra-ferral when he vamped out?

[Mole 0]

I couldn't watch the whole thing because I had to head to class, so I didn't get to see Doyle's sacrifice.

 

But with the magic of DVD, I can watch it later tonight.

[Guest wrestlingbs]

From what it looks like, Joss was getting tired of the character (and maybe the actress) and axed her from the show. It doesn't look like a good decision to me, since Cordy was a focal point since the beginning and now hey just have that loose end hanging out there.

[Mecha Mummy 0]

Well, it looks to me that we WILL see Cordy return, even if she isn't in a full-time role, and I want to see that just for the inevitable interaction between Cordy and Harmony (Who I just ADORE now).

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Guys, this Doyle talk is SO 16 days ago

 

The Eps. tonight was the one where Darla comes back in the end... OH MY GOD... when you listen to Wesley talk about the prophecy, with "The heavens shall tremble as the beast comes from under the earth" (paraphrased) and "The Darkness" - all related to Darla (Connor > Beast > Jasmine)... oh daddy, that shit was awesome.

[Mole 0]

Guys, this Doyle talk is SO 16 days ago

 

The Eps. tonight was the one where Darla comes back in the end... OH MY GOD... when you listen to Wesley talk about the prophecy, with "The heavens shall tremble as the beast comes from under the earth" (paraphrased) and "The Darkness" - all related to Darla (Connor > Beast > Jasmine)... oh daddy, that shit was awesome.

Um....when does Darla come back? I must have missed that one.

[Mecha Mummy 0]

She first resurfaces at the VERY end of Season One. Since I'm only a little bit into Season Two, I can't really go any further than that...

[Cavi 0]

In regards to Cordy, there was rumor that Joss and David Greenwalt (co-creator and former executive producer) were in disagreement over where they wanted to take the Cordy/Angel relationship, and that was a part in Greenwalt leaving to go do his own TV series (Miracles and Jake 2.0). Who knows if there is truth to that, as he always speaks well of the series in interviews and has remained on as a consulting producer.

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

Just a quick thought on Spike's whole physical presence thing. Since he's apparently not a true ghost I'm sure Joss can mess around with "the rules" if he wants and maybe this is one of them. Spike is able to come into contact with things (Angel's chair, the car seat, etc.) when he wants to and concentrates on it. Otherwise he's insubstatial and able to pass through walls. Hence when he went through Angel's desk it happened because he didn't think about it. Otherwise he would have crashed onto it. Kind of a flexible substantialism, if you will.

 

I doubt Joss will think too much about it, but it's a possibility.

 

BTW I marked for Angel staring at the mail guy with the lucha mask. It's funny how people are noticing it but not saying anything about it. So far I guess it's regarded as odd, but simply one more wierd thing about W&H.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Guys, this Doyle talk is SO 16 days ago

 

The Eps. tonight was the one where Darla comes back in the end... OH MY GOD... when you listen to Wesley talk about the prophecy, with "The heavens shall tremble as the beast comes from under the earth" (paraphrased) and "The Darkness" - all related to Darla (Connor > Beast > Jasmine)... oh daddy, that shit was awesome.

Ummm....maybe for you, but on TNT we're only up to "Parting Gifts" today.

[Anakin Flair 0]

Guys, this Doyle talk is SO 16 days ago

 

The Eps. tonight was the one where Darla comes back in the end... OH MY GOD... when you listen to Wesley talk about the prophecy, with "The heavens shall tremble as the beast comes from under the earth" (paraphrased) and "The Darkness" - all related to Darla (Connor > Beast > Jasmine)... oh daddy, that shit was awesome.

Um....when does Darla come back? I must have missed that one.

Wolfram and Hart resurect her at the end of season 1, just before Lindsey gets his hand chopped off by Angel. The catch? She's brought back as a Human...

 

Hmmm, I wonder if they'lll try that with Spike?

[Mole 0]

Guys, this Doyle talk is SO 16 days ago

 

The Eps. tonight was the one where Darla comes back in the end... OH MY GOD... when you listen to Wesley talk about the prophecy, with "The heavens shall tremble as the beast comes from under the earth" (paraphrased) and "The Darkness" - all related to Darla (Connor > Beast > Jasmine)... oh daddy, that shit was awesome.

Um....when does Darla come back? I must have missed that one.

Wolfram and Hart resurect her at the end of season 1, just before Lindsey gets his hand chopped off by Angel. The catch? She's brought back as a Human...

 

Hmmm, I wonder if they'lll try that with Spike?

I thought he was talking about season 4, not season 1.

 

I have to watch that tonight to see what Wes says.