The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I'm guessing the NBC thread was locked because we already have this thread and that one wasn't needed?

[Hank Kingsley 0]

"Home" was on TNT today. I love that episode.

 

Wes: "It's a lie."

Lilah: "...lah. It's a Lie-lah."

 

Fred taking the gun is another priceless moment. And the Angel/Connor stuff...well, it's great. I miss Tim Minear.

[Ravenbomb 0]

I'm getting caught up with season 4 on KaZaA. Just finished Spin The Bottle, downloading Rain of Fire. So far this season's the best of all of them.

 

"The English have it coming, I'm rooting for the slave"

[Mole 0]

Well it was 5AM when I read that so I guess being half asleep made me a little excited when I shouldn't have been. I did get my hopes up as I went to sleep, then I woke up and realized that I jumped the gun.

 

Bah, whatever.

[dubq 0]

BIG FUCKIN NEWS!!!!

 

From an inside source at NBC :

 

"It has come to our attention that there has been a vast public interest to see a return of this series. A forthcoming series is in negotiation, and NBC will go ahead with a sixth season if the public response is strong enough."

 

The reliability of the source has been checked with NBC Internal Documents.

 

Buffy.nu : We already know that the final meeting with angel writers and producers has been set up in a few weeks (we got the date), so you have time to show your support to these negociations by replying to this article !

 

We ask for help from all Buffy/Angel/Firefly websites and all the Whedon Fandom, NBC will check the feedback on this page, so show your angel love here !

Apparently this is.. how do you say... "bullshit".

[Jericholic82 0]

i was watching the ep at 1 am on tnt (west coast) its from season 2, where angel kidnaps darla and the police thought he killed her husband (an actor set up by W&H)

 

and I was laughing a lot. Gunn's reaction to when wes says something about angel turining evil was priceless

 

"Wait a minute, he turns evil?" the way he said it was funny to me.

 

that and of course angel singing "wang chung" needless to say I almost woke up the neighborhood rotfl

 

 

ah two more to go, hopefully tonight will be good and btw how come another network didnt pick it up for a new season I dont get it, especially when it still has a lot of viewers compared to some of the other crap on tv (like the swan and who wants to have plastic surgery or whaTever)

 

sucks that I only got into this show throught the current season and tnt repeats the past six months. (didnt get into buffy much till season 6 and fx repeats)

[Jericholic82 0]

one more thing does anyone else thing that Gunn resembles Shelton Benjamin?

[Ripper 0]

one more thing does anyone else thing that Gunn resembles Shelton Benjamin?

Well..their both black.

 

But J. August Richards is a much more attractive man...in my non-gay opinion.

[Jericholic82 0]

lol. Well besides the black thing, they do resemble each other someway, maybe slightly.

 

that being said, charles gunn would be a good wrestling character if J august learned to wrestle

 

o and spike of course

 

 

one final note to all other fans.

 

I have found that to me angel is a better hero and main character than buffy ever was. while buffy was constantly complaining about all the responsibilty, angel just did his best for his cause. sure he was conflicted and all, but he tried to put that behind him and fight his hardest. best example is the early season one ep when he turns human. he was willing to give that up (and buffy) just to be able to continue fighting for good and justice.

 

what are the odds on angel getting to be human again as the final moment of the show? of course I am not asking for spoilers here, just wondering what others who have not read spoilers think will happen.

[Guest Brian]

I'd, for some reason, rather have it be Spike turning human. Angel was the worst of the pack, and he wasn't that great of a person to begin with. Spike was the little nerd, who was somewhat pure and innocent in his ways, and evenb went as far as turning his mother to save her. Angel needs to keep on seeking redemption IMO.

 

And the Buffy thing, that's what I liked about her is that she wasn't always able to cope with her responsibilities. That's what makes "The gift", which I think is on syndication today, so good.

 

Here's a nice article on last week's episode befopre we start the hype machine for tonight:

 

Angel 5x20 The Girl In Question - Shadowkat Review

From Voy.com/14567 - By Shadowkat - 2004-05-12th

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Date Posted: 22:41:40 05/05/04 Wed

 

Subject: Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Undead (ATS 5.20 spoilers)

 

I was slightly spoiled for this episode - to the extent that I knew the premise, I knew it was an audience tease episode, I knew that most of it was Angel and Spike wandering about Italy like fools with their heads (metaphorically) cut off. I also knew that half the audience would love it to pieces and half would despise it with fiery vengeance. (Sort of like Storyteller actually.)

 

Why? Ahh...because you are in the point of view of two very frustrated characters and you want closure. You want some nice ending wrapped in a bow. You crave it. You want bloody Buffy to appear and tell her two beaux who she chooses or doesn’t choose. But truth is? In life that rarely happens. Usually when you hunt down an ex - you are chasing an illusion through blind alleys. What you are chasing is the memory, not the reality. An idea emphasized by Illyria who appears to pose as Fred - and Wes can’t handle it. He wants the old Fred. The one he fell in love with. This new Illyria/Fred hybrid creature is false to his eyes, she’s not true to the memory. She’s worse, a mockery - like Lilah posing as Fred in one of their many sex-capades, a memory that was contained in the orlon window. Question is, was the memory ever real? Not sure. But I got the feeling that we had three men chasing dreams or girls they’d worshipped, but who in reality didn’t exist. Another "play on perspective" game and yet another distraction from an important task at hand.

 

Tom Stoppard a while back wrote a comedic satire on Hamlet, called Rosencrantz and Guildernstern Are Dead. It’s a nice little romp, or so I’m told - I’ve never actually been able to make it through the play or for that matter the movie Stoppard directed, have tried several times. In Hamlet - Rosencrantz and Guildernstern are minor players with maybe five lines who appear, inadvertently betray Hamlet and are killed by him. In Stoppard’s play, R&G emerge from the shadows and take over, with Hamlet in the background. It’s the flip - the former lead now is barely seen, completely backstage - and the supporting characters who had been in the shadows are *now* front and center. Wicked by Gregory MacGuire does the same thing - Dorothy, the Tinman, The Lion, the Scarecrow - become bit parts (not even seen I’m told in the musical version), while the two Witches become the leads.That’s what happens in The Girl in Question - the bit players in BTVS, the male romantic/villian characters who served Buffy and lurked in the shadows, betrayed her, helped her, and were only really seen when they had something to do with her (on most occassions), are now front and center and it is Buffy lurking in the background, unseen. Actually Spike and Angel are in an odd way the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern’s of the Buffyverse. More fully fleshed out than Shakespear’s version. They both betray Buffy at some point, are inadvertently killed by Buffy, and inadvertently come back to haunt her. And like in Stoppard’s play, Buffy’s the Hamlet figure doing her thing on the sidelines - the lead in the former, the reason in fact of the Stoppard spin-off, but now barely seen. She’s not in the picture anymore, she’s lurking at the edge of the frame - yet if you peer closely, she’s gone an illusion. Reminds me a little of when Angel showed up in Pangs in S4 BTVS or in Forever S5 BTVs - brief but gone.

 

The Immortal is an interesting metaphor as well - he symbolizes what Spike and Angel represented to Buffy, that perfect mysterious man, older, ambiguous, who could sweep her off her feet but remained unchanging, inpermanent, and Buffy, as Andrew states, knows this. She is merely moving on. And she’s doing it by finding someone who represents the best of both her two ex-lovers. Two vampires that she loved but could not be with. He also represents what Spike and Angel view themselves as - as vampires. The ideal of the Immortal super-hero. Another illusion. Note Andrew states that the Immortal isn’t that great. And we see Andrew changing - he can be cool James Bond guy or nerdy Andrew, he is human, mortal, and changing - not locked in place doing the same thing over and over and over again like Spike, Angel and to a degree the Immortal and he notes that Buffy will move on from this dance too.

 

Then there is the metaphor of loops. Or circles. Angel and Spike are chasing their own tails in Italy. Going around and around and around again in smaller and smaller loops. Both physically and emotionally and verbally. Having the same conversation, the same arguement, and the same chase. We see the circle chase with the car around the piazza in Rome. The chase of Buffy to Disco to apt, back to disco back to apt again. Until finally, Andrew tells them, after their third arrival, that they are literally running in place. If they don’t stop - neither of them will ever get Buffy, because she will be way ahead, having *moved on* and they will still be here, stuck in the loop. They get fed up, go home and find themselves back at the beginning, WR&H, again stuck, saying "we’re moving on now".

 

We also have the bit about the head - losing the head, the exploding head - both metaphors for their own romantic illusions. They’ve lost their heads over Buffy, dropped everything to go chasing after her. When they finally re-focus on the head, their attention still half on Buffy, half on the past - the bag allegedly containing the head explodes in their face. I this this may be an analogy to obtaining Buffy or how they see her - the prize. That they want to control. But they can’t. They get it? And poof! Goes the illusion. As Angel states, she’d break out of any box they attempted to trap her in, she’s too smart for a spell - while tempting, it wouldn’t work. To ever have the girl - they have to let her go, as she finally let them both go in Chosen. Buffy let Angel and Spike go in Chosen, and now in The Girl in Question - Angel and Spike must let go of Buffy and move on.

 

But that’s hard to do particularly when the Girl in Question was partly responsible for who they became. "I turned out alright", Spike states - "Yeah, after she got done with you," retorts Angel. If it weren’t for Buffy, neither of them would have attempted to save the world - she inspired them. As they in turn inspired and shaped her. The metaphor of the leather jacket partly speaks to this - both Spike and Angel lose their leather jackets in the explosion. Spike is devastated. "This was my second-skin," he states - "it’s a part of me, it can’t be replaced." Well, of course it can - it’s just a jacket after all - has no more meaning that what we attribute to it. Spike needs to move on. Stop holding on to the past. And in a way he compromises - he gets the same jacket, but newer, cleaner, and no longer associated with old crimes or accomplishments. Just as Spike keeps the name Spike, yet isn’t still Spike - the jacket looks the same but isn’t. Angel who appears to be more than happy to move on - isn’t quite as comfortable in the latest style, he looks awkward, uncomfortable, embarrassed. The new skin doesn’t quite fit. A metaphor perhaps for his inablity to find a compromise between the two sides of himself? To intergrate Angelus?

 

Final notes to this ramble:

 

The Angel/Spike bickering over who saved the world the most? ROFL!! Honestly, is it just me or do you think the writers have either been spending far too much time on fanboards or perhaps they are bickering over the same thing in their writing dens? I can imagine Fury and Deknight bickering over this as a sequel to the infamous caveman/astronaut debate and in a way the debate is the same - unimportant and unsolvable. Both have saved the world in their own way, both were inspired by the girl in question to do so and to change themselves for the better - what comes next? Is up to them. They can either continue running in circles or break outside the box like Buffy did in Chosen.

 

Oh regarding Fred/Illyria - ah, it really is Twelth Night, isn’t it? We have twins of everyone now. Wes is the two men in the joke (the one in horrid pain chattering and the stoic one who is almost catanonic), Gunn is Gunn with the street smarts and moral views/ and Gunn with the demon legalese, Lorne is the kind man/ with the demon opportunistic shell, Angel/Angelus, Spike/William, and now Fred/Illyria. Question is who is the real one and who is the false. Or are they all both?

[Ravenbomb 0]

Okay, I'm up to Habeus Corpus, so now I know why people keep saying the Beast kicks ass *marks for The Beast killing Gavin*

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

After Angel ends, no more Amy Acker.

 

 

 

 

Cry.

[Anakin Flair 0]

Whoa.

[Hank Kingsley 0]

oh my GOD. David Fury, I love you.

 

That episode did more to build for the finale than all of Buffy season 7. Everything was perfect. Everyone got screen time, there was scattered humor (Crash Bandicoot~), and that ending...oh man.

 

 

And next week's preview gave me CHILLS. I love this show.

[Mole 0]

how come another network didnt pick it up for a new season I dont get it, especially when it still has a lot of viewers compared to some of the other crap on tv (like the swan and who wants to have plastic surgery or whaTever)

The Swan does better than Angel does, why I have no idea. Its rating from this past Monday was a 5.7. Angel has never had that number before, I believe.

 

I have found that to me angel is a better hero and main character than buffy ever was. while buffy was constantly complaining about all the responsibilty, angel just did his best for his cause. sure he was conflicted and all, but he tried to put that behind him and fight his hardest. best example is the early season one ep when he turns human. he was willing to give that up (and buffy) just to be able to continue fighting for good and justice.

You have to remember that Buffy is MUCH younger than Angel and she isn't very mature, atleast in the beginning of the series. But by time season 5 came around, she became a lot more mature and did things for other people than herself. Like killing herself to save the world, like Brian said.

 

Now to this episode, and wow, that was a fuckin good episode. They set up the finale PERFECTLY and had me on the edge of my seat the whole time. It was as if I was watching an episode of 24.

 

1. My first thought was that Angelus was back, but then I remembered if Angelus was back after banging, he would have killed his bitch. (I can't remember her name.) Besides, the Angelus card has been played and it would be pretty silly for them to bring him back again. Especially since where this season has been going, there would be no point to it.

 

2. I love it when Angel says the vampire stuff when it came to the Senator's aid. It just shows how awesome he is when he whips stuff out like that. And that Senator was just creepy. I didn't like her at all, she just had this vibe about her that said "eviilllll" in the evil bitch way.

 

3. Seeing Dro again was pretty sweet. At first I thought it was Rack, from season 6 of Buffy, then when Spike said Drogyn I realized I was wrong. The whole interaction with Dro and Illyria was gang star, especially with the Crash Bandicoot deal.

 

4. Wes, Gunn, Spike and Lorne make a pretty good team themselves. Without Angel in the picture, there is no clear cut leader and that is something you don't see everyday. Spike isn't a type of character that is a leader, so that makes for something different.

 

5. I loved the whole Black Thorn angle. One thing that I will always love about Lindsay is that he is one smart motherfucker. He might always get his ass beat in one way or another, but he does know his shit. If Wes doesn't even know something, that shows how smart Lindsay is.

 

6. Once Angel bit Dro, I knew that it was a plan all along. Angel always has something tucked up his sleeve and what he was doing was pretttyy smart.

 

7. Ahhhhhhhhh, kissing Cordy finally came all together. I wonder if Joss and Company were planning this all along. The fact that he got the visions, or was it just that one vision, from her was a great little twist.

 

8. What is about to go down next week is just plan ol' fuckin awesome. I wish they started setting this up last week because I believe a 3-episode arc about the finale would have been a lot better than just 2. But I am just nitpicking.

 

I'd talk more about the episode, but I've got a 6-page paper about Chaucer due this past Tuesday to write. Damn, I am going to miss this show.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

So Angel killed Dro? Sure it was to help him get into the Black Thorne's, but still.

[Anya 0]

Angel's promo was really good, but it's hard to take this secret society seriously. It's kind of like the 7th season of Buffy, in how they're trying really hard to hype up how this is the biggest thing ever and how this is the supreme big bad to end all big bads and we're all gonna die....but the credibility just isn't there. The hype I have for the finale and the final battle is because it is the final battle and has little to do with the actual threat the heroes are going to face. That is way uncool.

 

 

Spike having an Xbox is incredible though. I wonder if Wes is a gamer too? I bet Andrew has the best console library of the bunch.

 

 

So Angel really killed Drogyn and he is just....dead. That's kinda weird and sad. How does he justify that?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I'm not sure if it was a wrestling reference, but I marked for Spike calling Illyria "The Blue Meanie"

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

The two episodes setting up the Black Thorne just doesn't give it enough time. Angel want's to kill every member, and there were a bunch of people. Is the series finale 2 hours?

[Ravenbomb 0]

I'm not sure if it was a wrestling reference, but I marked for Spike calling Illyria "The Blue Meanie"

probably a yellow submarine reference

 

 

 

 

 

so they spent 3 and a half seasons worried about Angel going evil, and then THEY'RE the ones who turn him evil? That's fucked up.

*Is way behind*

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I'm not sure if it was a wrestling reference, but I marked for Spike calling Illyria "The Blue Meanie"

probably a yellow submarine reference

Oh yeah. I didn't even think about that.

[Guest wrestlingbs]

Just to clarify, but is the NBC deal definitely bullshit? :holds on to false hope:

 

Really good eps this week, way better than that whole Italy fiasco last week. I like how they teased Angel and not Angelus as the big bad. The explanation by Angel at the end is the best way to give the last episode credit: at least they're going out with a bang.

 

And Ilyria playign Crash Bandicoot was hilarious (although the game sucks):

 

"This game disgusts and annoys me... and yet I can't stop playing."

[Guest JMA]

Even though some people find him annoying, I would really like to see a Connor spin-off. It would be a way for Joss to continue his universe AND get the teen to watch.

 

Angel being on NBC would be kind of weird. Something about the show and network don't seem to "click" right. But I'd take anything right now.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

1. Hamilton rules. His convo with "Dro" and the implication that he is "really old" rules. Plus, he beat the SHIT out of Illyria. That was some Grade-A ass whoppin right there. And the end with him just looking into the room was fucking awesome. Goddammit, Gunn, Illyria, Harmony and Hamilton all competing for top spot on the Players list. Oh yes, there WILL be a players list at the end of this season~.

 

2.“It’s pointless. And annoys me. And yet I am compelled to play on.” = my new sig. Watch for it.

 

3. Mole, I know you mean "3 part arc" in a different way, but this episode gave validation to ALL the episodes thus far in Season 5 AND the Season 4 finale. I can't wait to see this all over again either on DVD or in reruns or through downloading - cause this shit goes DEEP! I mean, one of my favourite moments of this year even had relevance; in 5.1, Angel getting all happy about choosing from his selection of cars, showed how much he enjoyed the power given to him. It built up from the perks and, conceivably, into the power-hungry fiend he portrayed himself as tonight. PLUS, I love how they put in a lot of the 'villains' from the earlier episodes into the COTBT.

 

4. When I read the Cordy Kiss deal in the spoilers I melted... so hot. SO HOT. Great stuff.

 

5. The Fred/Connor thing was beautiful. How the two innocents harmed by fate had their downfall, and how Angel can't let that happen anymore. He has to do _something_.

 

6. The Circle of the Black Thorn (and the Senior Partners) wanting Angel in makes perfect sense, since it has been WR&H's objective to get Angel on their side from the very beginning. The more I think about it, the better this episode is.

 

7. I wasn't digging this episode right away and alot of that was because I had read the spoilers, however, when Spike basically said "bring it on", I was feeling it. Angels voice sounded funny when giving that speech, though.

 

8. Mmmm Nina. A lot less nipplage, but she looked DAMN good in that nightie. That certainly wasn't a stake

 

9. Drogyn and Fred playing Xbox was sooooo fucking cool. Shit, now I want a Drogyn mini series! DAMN!

 

10. Did anyone else get the Hillary Clinton vibe from the Senator?? That was intentional, right??

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Aaaand Wes talking about forgiveness and change and how Angel would do the same for any one of them was awesome, cause he's the only one who remembers stealing Connor.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Jayne beating the shit out of Illyria was pretty crazy. Poor Illyria. When Crash Bandicoot is a metaphor for your existance, you might as well turn the console off.

 

So, Angel nails Blondie McFunbags and nothing happens? Come on. I never liked the idea that perfect happiness was an orgasm, but now it's an orgasm with only Buffy and Cordy? Cordy I can believe, she seems like she knows what she's doing. But happy virgin Buffy? I doubt it.

 

So, who's going to die in the finale? I imagine Lorne is going to bite the bullet. He seems pretty sad lately. Maybe Harmony, probably Illyria. I think the core group of Angel/Spike/Wes/Gunn will survive.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

He doesn't love Nina, he just wants to show the Senior Partners that he fucks around now with someone he "cares" about - that he's more wreckless.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

I was actually thinking Kai Winn from DS9. But Hillary Clinton makes a lot more sense, especially since she mentioned taking the White House in 2008. I knew she was evil.

 

"He's a pedophile?"

"He will be when you're done with him."

 

I can't believe that throw-away devil guy was actually important. He was in the Connor ep, right? I liked the mention of the cultist demons from a couple of eps back. "They keep talking about how cute the baby is, and how he's going to make such a great ritual sacrifice."

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Jayne beating the shit out of Illyria was pretty crazy. Poor Illyria. When Crash Bandicoot is a metaphor for your existance, you might as well turn the console off.

 

So, Angel nails Blondie McFunbags and nothing happens? Come on. I never liked the idea that perfect happiness was an orgasm, but now it's an orgasm with only Buffy and Cordy? Cordy I can believe, she seems like she knows what she's doing. But happy virgin Buffy? I doubt it.

 

So, who's going to die in the finale? I imagine Lorne is going to bite the bullet. He seems pretty sad lately. Maybe Harmony, probably Illyria. I think the core group of Angel/Spike/Wes/Gunn will survive.

Technically he never really lost his soul by having sex with Cordy. It was an illusion, but in the illusion it was a combination of his son accepting him, the beast being dead, and having sex with Cordy.

 

With Buffy it wasn't just sex it was basically the cosumation of their love. A moment of passion that had been building for awhile.

 

I don't think he loves Nina the way he loved Buffy and Cordy. She's like a sex buddy or something.

 

Oh and I loved the "We stopped having intercourse" line from Illyria and Spike's reaction to it.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Izzy the Devil is the motherfucking Clem of Angel. FUCK THEM for not expanding his role in more episodes.