The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Ripper 0]

I don't remember "Guise will be Guise" at all.

Angel goes to this retreat to learn something about himself, and Wesley has to pretend to be Angel, meets his girlfriend(the one that left him after he got shot...damn thats cold).

 

You don't remember any of this.

 

Angel: I am not overdramatic

 

Swamyguy: Really? Do you always open both doors when you open a room?

[Mole 0]

Ohohohoh, right right right.

 

That episode was gold.

[Guest reekspeak]

I have to admit I'm not the biggest fan of Illyria neither, though she brought back old school Gunn, gave AD some angst to play with and upped the pace of the season, so the positives outweigh the negatives.

 

For the most part, I'd rather watch Buffy S6 than either S5 or S7.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

I imagine the whole Illyria storyline would have played in much more depth and quality if not for the "hey guys, you've got 8 episodes to finish your show forever!" revelation mid-season. That being said, I still think everything about Illyria (except perhaps her tedious monologues) makes for the best parts of the show since she's arrived. It's too bad. This year, the Mutant Enemy team actually seemed to cut back on the glut of storylines and villains that harmed Season 4, and in the end they had to overstuff it anyway because of the cancellation.

 

As for the death pool: everyone seems to be picking Lorne, and in a very Anya-sort-of-way he's definitely the easy choice. The least "essential" of the core cast, and the one with the fewest devastating personal connections. I don't include Harmony in there because, though she's been in the credits for the last few episodes, she's barely been a part of the show. But I don't think it's going to be Lorne. The worst fate for him would be to get through the fight, see a friend of his die, and then give up on Team Angel and wander back into the bar-drudging obscurity he dabbled in after Fred's death. Watch him get run through with a lightning bolt now that I've said that. I've got a bad feeling about Wesley, but it really seems out of place for any of the core gang to go after Fred's already bitten it mid-season. It feels like really silly end-of-series drama designed to pique one last final writing. I really hate the way this has been marketed and the decision to hype it as "ooo shit someone be dyin'." It's a lame ploy for attention, cheap writing, and I think the show is better than it, but eh, last episode, so I'll let it go. "Someone's going to die" is Dawson's Creek nonsense, not what I expect of Joss and company.

[dubq 0]

I really hate the way this has been marketed and the decision to hype it as "ooo shit someone be dyin'." It's a lame ploy for attention, cheap writing, and I think the show is better than it, but eh, last episode, so I'll let it go. "Someone's going to die" is Dawson's Creek nonsense, not what I expect of Joss and company.

Well, it's the WB marketing it, not Joss & M.E.

[Ripper 0]

They planned on getting Fred back next season and Amy Acker was going to play a double role as I have heard. Something to do with a WIllow cameo to get it done. But thats out.

 

Man...wes has the mark of death sadly. I hope not. I am actually voting for Gunn. I would hate to see him go, but it would be a fitting end after his fluck ups this year.

 

6 hours, 45 minutes to go.

[Anakin Flair 0]

I really hate the way this has been marketed and the decision to hype it as "ooo shit someone be dyin'."  It's a lame ploy for attention, cheap writing, and I think the show is better than it, but eh, last episode, so I'll let it go.  "Someone's going to die" is Dawson's Creek nonsense, not what I expect of Joss and company.

Well, it's the WB marketing it, not Joss & M.E.

Exactly. I'm sure Joss would have wanted it to be a suprise, but WB always pimps these sort of things out anyways.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

I really hate the way this has been marketed and the decision to hype it as "ooo shit someone be dyin'."  It's a lame ploy for attention, cheap writing, and I think the show is better than it, but eh, last episode, so I'll let it go.  "Someone's going to die" is Dawson's Creek nonsense, not what I expect of Joss and company.

Well, it's the WB marketing it, not Joss & M.E.

Exactly. I'm sure Joss would have wanted it to be a suprise, but WB always pimps these sort of things out anyways.

I still think it's a fairly idea, just as I thought it was a silly/poorly executed idea to axe Anya so randomly last year. Nothing wrong with killing a character, but at least do it for something more than "someone got served, dayamn!" Reserving judgment till I see tonight's episode, of course, and hopeful all the way that Joss has improved his manner of knocking off major players since then.

 

Oh, also, for everything going back and forth a few pages about Grateful Dead "Not Fade Away" vs. the Rolling Stones "Not Fade Away," don't forget that neither of them actually wrote the song. That was Buddy Holly all the way. If they play it - which I don't think they should - the Stones version is probably the most suited to the show.

[Jericholic82 0]

Guise will be Guise

I fucking *LOVE* that episode!

 

"You were in Virginia?"

"That's beside the point!"

 

"Why is Wesley wearing my coat?"

 

Magnus: That's why I hired him. He's a eunuch.

Cordy: You slept with her?

Angel: A eunuch?

Wesley: Things happen... two young people, danger.

Virginia: What are you talking about?

Magnus: She was a virgin before you got here.

Virginia: I was not a virgin.

Magnus: What?

Wesley: Oh thank goodness.

Gunn: I could have told you she wasn't no virgin.

Angel: Not a eunuch.

Cordy: One day as Angel... one day and he's getting some.

Magnus: What, how could you? I kept you away from all men.

Angel: The curse isn't even all that clear!

Yeah! I saw that part last night on TNT and it had me again rotfl

 

also the other day on tnt they showed the one with the doctor who could detach his body parts. at the end the gang (then just angel,doyle,and cordy) gets paid and cord suggests going out and cashing it right now (daytime)

 

angel retorts with "That's ok, I think I'll just stay here and not burst into flames"

 

the matter of fact way he said it was awesome

 

 

 

I'M NOT A EUNUCH!!

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Basically, it broke down everything established in Season 5 - my favourite season. Plus they had drunk-with-maJiK Willow, and I was never a fan of witchy willow, so you can imagine how annoyed I was when she got a lot of the focus that season. Buffy - the hero - was becoming unglued, and I -as a codependant viewer- needs to cheer on someone strong. Xander and Anya, a couple which RULED in season 5, broke up and Anya got less fun and more whiney. Spike wasn't nearly as good as he was in Season 5, and Dawn just plain sucked. Tara wasn't even approaching how good she was before (Season 5 was a peak season for her and one of the best acting jobs -imo- in the shows entire run) and they (spoiler)killed her off(spoiler). The troika were fun but shit, they posed no threat during any of the season, PLUS, it lacked the strung-togetherness that Season 5 had. On top of all that, the singular episode quality wasn't close to being as good as Season 5 or even Season 4... and HELLO, Buffy going insane??? Shit, they fucking stole that from DS9.

 

What part of this aren't you guys getting?

[Anya 0]

The part where season 6 isn't great.

 

Especially the part about the trio not being the best. ever.

[Ravenbomb 0]

Ok, having seen everything but the last three (ie: 19, 20, 21), Illyria's decent. I figured she'd be the big bad for the season instead of the comic relief, but whatever

[Anya 0]

She's not even good at that(being comic relief). Her and Wes moaning is soooo boring. It sucks the life out of the show.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

It's supposed to.

 

All Illyria represents at this point is a reminder to Wesley that he has nothing.

 

How she would have been used if the show would have gotten another year...that's something we'll never know. But as of the end of this year...she's just a plot device for another character.

 

Kind of how Anya's death just became a plot device for Andrew's story arc.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I like Big, Powerful, Ass-Whoopin, Near-Impossible-To-Defeat Villains. Ie. Glory, THE BEAST. The Three Nerds brought nothing to the table other than pent-up homosexual urges, high voices, and aspirations of megalomania. And while that was funny, it does not a good villain make. And coming off the WONDERFUL Glory and how the whole team had to band together to overcome the odds, this seemed so... limp.

 

And it isn't great. Season 5 is great. Season 5 was something; it was the apex of the entire series where they were at the top of their form in terms of character development, storytelling, and theme. Season 6 just tried to rip that apart; it couldn't bother to create its own legacy.

 

Willows addiction was fucking LAME. L-A-M-E. And totally transparent in its metaphor for drug abuse. I like my allagories a little more subtle, thank you. Thank god she didn't endanger one of her young friends, or hurt a loved one, or get strung out and become careless - oh wait. LAME~! Add to all this that it was Allison Hannigan, who I want to stab in the face with a fork 90% of the time she's on screen, and you got yourself one not-great story.

 

Anya and Xander were annoying. The whole season was annoying - like nails on a chalk board... cept really, really, slow. Xander leaves Anya at the alter, Anya gets really mad and never ever ever ever never ever ever ever forgives him, so Xander is all mopey. Then Xander gets mad at Anya, so he doesn't feel so bad anymore (but he really still does~!), and it all fucking sucks.

 

"Their relationship symbolizes the whole season perfectly."

 

Yep, after Season 5 the writers said "uh... what do we do now" and there you have it, "let's just fuck em all up!". BRILLIANT~! And don't compare it to Season 4 Angel, which was being built from Season 2. Season 4 Angel had its faults, but it didn't purposely try to fuck the show up to create ~tension~.

 

And making a character purposely annoying is not a good idea, and doesn't stop that character from being annoying.

 

Plus we had "Bargaining Pt 1 & 2," "Once More, With Feeling," "Tabula Rasa," "Smashed," "Wrecked," "Hell's Bells," "Seeing Red," "Villians," "Two to Go" and "Grave." Those all are atleast B+ episodes and when half of the season is that good I see a pretty damn good season.

 

SMASHED? WRECKED? You've GOT to be kidding me. God Willow fucking SUCKS. Bargaining was just "good", and -I'd say- a pretty poor return for Buffy after "The Gift". I wouldn't exactly call it a B+ episode. Hell's Bells I'd barely call "good" - it wasn't a "bad" episode, but it seemed like a bit of a cop out to breaking up Xander and Anya. The only thing you have here is "Once more with Feeling" whose novelty wears down after a while and the Dark Willow episodes, which I admit were very good. However, you still have trash like Doublemeat Palace and Normal Again, which are big negatives, along with a bunch of forgettable episodes. Can you say with a straight face that all the episodes you listed were "excellent" or "great", because you're hiding behing a rather ambiguous B+.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Kind of how Anya's death just became a plot device for Andrew's story arc.

 

Um, Illyria is a little bit more than that. They've been fleshing this out for the past few (4? 5?) episodes, and considering that they've spent well over 2 Season developing the Fred/Wes relationship just to kill it so quickly, I think all the tormet has been paying off in spades.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

That's fine and all...my point is Illyria is just a plot device for Wesley's story arc.

 

Is it a bigger arc? Sure.

 

But it's still a plot device.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Is there something wrong with that? Amy Ackers performance as Illyria has been nothing short of spectacular - she has created an entirely different entity with no traces of Fred. Her interactions with each character - specifically Wes - has been valuable and she has been involved in some major plot points aside from Fred dying. Not-to-mention she represents a side of the theme that tends not to be explored; the other side of fate. She, just as much as Fred, was a victim of fates hand.

 

So she didn't "just" become a plot device for a minor characters story-arc.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

1. When did I say plot device was bad?

 

2. All of the things you just described are listed right after the words "plot device" in the dictionary.

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

I like Big, Powerful, Ass-Whoopin, Near-Impossible-To-Defeat Villains. Ie. Glory, THE BEAST. The Three Nerds brought nothing to the table other than pent-up homosexual urges, high voices, and aspirations of megalomania. And while that was funny, it does not a good villain make. And coming off the WONDERFUL Glory and how the whole team had to band together to overcome the odds, this seemed so... limp.

Whoa. I can understand why you would want to pick Glory over "the three nerds", but to say they brought nothing to the table is wrong. While Glory was all "BAH, I'm a God", you had these three guys who were actually human. They weren't demon's. They can be killed easily. Yet they were a major threat to the Gang. Not to mention Warren just going over the edge and killing Tara and shooting Buffy. He didn't resort to magic, or use of a demon. He was angry, pissed off, and just wanted Buffy dead. And he did it with a gun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Lorne is as good as dead.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

A plot device affects plot, not theme or characters. She did more than just change the shows direction, she changed the way the characters acted (specifically Wes), and she reflected the theme the show was building. The word "just" minimalizes her importance, and its comparison to Anya/Andrew _does_ make it a bad thing.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

That's because she was the PLOT DEVICE THAT AFFECTED WESLEY'S STORY ARC.

 

How many ways can I say the same thing until you realize we are both saying the SAME THING.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The Trio were a mere inconvenience to the gang, while the real "villians" were "themselves" (groan!). They were fucking flys buzzing around buffy's head; the only time they had value, and really it was just Warren, was the aforementioned gun incident. They weren't a threat at all.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

BPS, you're minimizing Illyrias impact on the show. You say she is "just" a plot device for Wesley, then why does she do more than that?

[Mole 0]

SMASHED? WRECKED? You've GOT to be kidding me. God Willow fucking SUCKS. Bargaining was just "good", and -I'd say- a pretty poor return for Buffy after "The Gift". I wouldn't exactly call it a B+ episode. Hell's Bells I'd barely call "good" - it wasn't a "bad" episode, but it seemed like a bit of a cop out to breaking up Xander and Anya. The only thing you have here is "Once more with Feeling" whose novelty wears down after a while and the Dark Willow episodes, which I admit were very good. However, you still have trash like Doublemeat Palace and Normal Again, which are big negatives, along with a bunch of forgettable episodes. Can you say with a straight face that all the episodes you listed were "excellent" or "great", because you're hiding behing a rather ambiguous B+.

No kidding there. I loved "Smashed" and "Wrecked," and the Willow crack addiction storyline.

 

"Bargaining Pt 1 & 2" was the best first episode of any season. Plus it tells what one of the major storylines of the season is in the first scene; Willow and her magic. The damn girl is standing on a tomb telling people where vampires are. It shows how powerful she has gotten and how far it will go.

 

2 hours and 41 minutes till the series finale.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

PLEASE.

 

SOMEONE.

 

ANYONE.

 

Tell me I'm not alone in hating the drunk-with-MaJiK Willow storyline.

 

For the love of everything that is good and pure, please restore my faith in humanity here.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Alright.

 

It's a little over 2 hours till the FINAL ANGEL EPISODE EVER (!!!), so what are you going to miss????????

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

PLEASE.

 

SOMEONE.

 

ANYONE.

 

Tell me I'm not alone in hating the drunk-with-MaJiK Willow storyline.

 

For the love of everything that is good and pure, please restore my faith in humanity here.

No, it was fucking retarded. You're dead-on.

 

I liked the smaller aspects of it in Season 5, i.e. how it led to big-time danger and nasty burnout following "Tough Love," when she went into full-on attack mode against Glory. But S6's take was stupid, stupid, stupid. I like "Smashed" a good bit for everything that isn't the Willow story, but "Wrecked" is one of the show's worst episodes ever.

 

Magic = drugs = bad = retarded, especially seeing how the allegory barely holds up once you get to the end of the season. If you want to really go magic = drugs for the season, then Giles basically shows up on PCP and feeds Willow a bunch of ecstasy. It was inconsistent, silly, and a rare example of Buffyverse metaphors being so transparent and preachy.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

I'm most going to miss seeing Amy Acker on my TV. Until the end of last season I didn't care for her much, but she lit up the show in the last few episodes then and every moment she's been around this season. Definitely the heart of the show as far as I'm concerned.

 

Mostly I'm going to miss seeing these guys get to work their magic. They're all very talented, but I doubt many of them are going to get too many big acting opportunities after this. And I'm going to miss the opening credits theme, which is one of the most appropriate intros any show has ever had.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I'm going to miss the "Previously, on Angel"; I'm going to miss the letter box; I'm going to miss Goofy Angel - the one that sings mandy, the one that still has his penis and wants the world to know, the one that turned into a puppet; I'm going to miss how the show laughed at itself in a way that other shows are afraid or are 'too cool' to do; I'm going to miss Spike, cause this time he really is going away; I'm going to miss all the cast, but Wes in particular - these last few years have been very kind to the actor and I forgive him for marrying that abomination that is Ally Hannigan; I'm going to miss Lilah, even though she was already gone by season 5, and more importantly, I'm going to miss saying "the foxy" and all its incarnations ("20th Century Fox" and "Digitally Remastered in Foxtravision" being my personal favourites); I'm going to miss the gimmick episodes, because no other show does them; I'm going to miss the theme which rocked from day 1; I'm going to miss the nobility and spirit that the show had which I think tended to be stronger than Buffys; I'm going to miss Nipples and Harmony and how they turned me on in different ways - nipples with her Nipples and Harmony dancing in the halloween episode; I'm going to miss Lindsay, cause he was such a pecker and it was so fun to see him back; and I'm going to miss yelling at the TV screen and jumping up and down after a really killer episode - I don't do that for many shows, and I will really miss it.

 

And finally, I'm going to miss geeking out with you guys and arguing over such nerdy things and making myself laugh hysterically by writing various stupid things.