The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Guest Brian]

Spike~! was a lackey before he had a soul. Every flashback, Spike~! was careless and savage. That was what the caveman/astronaut was all about; Spike~! was you're take no prisoner, rush into type of guy and Angellus was this veolved presence. But that changed. Spike~!, through his relationship with Buffy, learned about things like sacrifice and hardship. He leanred what it was like to love, not swoon. And he evolved, to the point where he became a champion. And when he acended to that position, he be more than just Angellus lackey. He became a hero, a man.

 

Spike~! spent his life rebelling from his mother and seeking the overwhelimng approval of Dru. He was always in someone's shadow, and in many cases, it was Angellus. So Spike~! was always looking to make a name for himself, so he went after the slayers, and constantly sought Dru. And his relationship with Buffy changed all that.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

KING PLAYER MAXIMUM X

 

There is a reason CHARLES GUNN was not listed amongst the 5 Players. Where Wesley was golden, Gunn was the diamond of Angel Season 5; thus earning him the namesake of KING PLAYER MAXIMUM X. To fully understand the meaning of the KPMX, you must first understand what it is to be a PLAYER.

 

A Player is someone who steps up their game and makes you take notice. They may not have the most lines or the biggest part, but when they are in a scene your attention gravitates towards them and when they are not in a scene you wish that they were. They rise above their role and make an impact. That is what a Player is and that is what Charles Gunn was in every single episode of the season.

 

Where Wesley delivered the deeper performance, where Spike was more funny, where Illyria and Harmony were more fuckable, and where Hamilton kicked more ass, Charles Gunn still made a bigger impact that any of these other 5.

 

Introduced in the late-end of Season 1, Gunn was more known for his name than his role ("Who is it?" "Gunn" "What did he say" "I think he said he has a gun" "No, my name is Gunn"). However, his character grew beyond the street-wise hoodlum and into a smart, reliable character with an edge. Sadly, that edge wore off in Season 3 when he made eyes for Winnifred Burkle and that relationship effectively killed off any appeal Gunn had. His most memorable performance at this time, ironically enough, was in "Billy", where he was able to fight off the outside influence to save Fred, which ultimated won her over. He then went on to have some good moments in various episodes such as in "Waiting in the Wings" where he was breathtaken by the performances of the ballerinas. Those moments were few and far between. It was not to be lost, though, as Gunn made a rebound in Season 4 and became a reliable cast member. His interactions with Connor in particular were very good.

 

At the end of Season 4, where the crew was taken through the Wolfram and Heart offices, Gunn figured they would put him in charge of security - seeing as he always considered himself the "muscle" of the group. It was not to be, however, and he was sent to the "white room" with the "big cat". The encounter was enigmatic but interesting and lead to the character seen at the end of "Conviction". Gone was the street-savvy thug, in was the wall-street savvy lawyer-thug with the mizzle skillizzills.

 

A smooth talker in the courtroom and lover of Gilbert and Sullivan, the up-grade wasn't just to the benefit of Charles Gunn, it was to the benefit of the viewers as well. Gunn constantly "brought it"; every scene he was in, every word that he spoke, every single moment was a joy to behold. The hints of greatness that sparkled in previous years came out in full force and he never looked back.

 

J August Richards is a black man. Infact, he is the first ever black core character in the Whedonverse. Often on television or film, you'd get characters defined by their colour, however it was never like that for Gunn. Well, maybe for -like- the first 2 seasons, but not in Season 5. Here you had a character that was deeper than the "Yo Yo, where be the ladies bling, oh lordamursay, look at deez rims!" that we see on shows like MTV (insert every show here), any Wayans brother movie expect Low Down Dirty Shame or maybe Most Wanted, and shows like The Practice and 7th Heaven. No, you didn't get that with Gunn. Here was a complex character who wanted to step off of the streets and be more than what everyone expected him to be. However, his choices were not without consequence, and he suffered them dearly. The desperation he showed in wanting Fred back was heart-wrenching and how he elected to suffer the punishment showed the kind of man he was.

 

But ultimately, it comes down to one particular act which puts Charles Gunn above the Wesleys, the Harmonys, and the Illyrias of the world....

 

GUNN

(singing Broadway style with ease)

Three little maids who, all unwary,

Come from a ladies' seminary,

Freed from its genius tutelary—

(picks up a printout from the printer; continues to sing)

Three little maids from school!

Three little maids—

(notices Wesley is at his door, changes to singing Rap style, but struggles)

..and ya don't stop with all the ladies in the...gangsta but ... go

(speaking)

What's up?

 

WESLEY

I should ask you. You seem unutterably cheery.

 

GUNN

I am.

(closes his folder)

I am.

(puts down the folder; walks toward Wesley, excited)

Look, I gotta be straight with you 'cause this is kinda blowin' my mind.

 

WESLEY

Tell me.

 

GUNN

Fred and I are getting back together.

(Wes gasps nearly inaudibly, stares at Gunn, trying hard not to react)

She was so keyed up from last night's fight, she asked me over. We ended up talking for hours like old times,

(Wesley looks down, in shock)

then, all of a sudd— I can't even keep this up 'cause your face is gonna make me weep. Wes, I am so messin' with you.

 

... and killing the senator with a hatchet. That was COLD BLOODED.

 

Back in Season 1, who would have expected such great things out of Charlies Gunn? I don't think anyone could have, and even up until the beginning of Season 5, no one truly knew what he was capable of. That is why he is not only the breakout star of the year, he is the KING PLAYER MAXIMUM X

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I WILL FUCKING TAKE ALL OF YOUZE ON!

 

SPIKE~! is nothing but LACKEY for Angel.  He didn't deserve to whoop Angels ass and he SUXZ.

Did Angel ever rhyme something with the word "effulgent". Well. DID HE!!!!!

Did Spike ever sing BARRY MANILOW? OR WANG CHUNG??! HUH! ARE YOU HAVING FUN TONIGHT??! CAUSE HE WAS!! YOUSONNOFABITCH! HE WAS!!! EVERYBODY WAS!!! AND HE SANG SO!!

[BlackFlagg 0]

Was wondering why Gunn wasn't in the top five after the massive praise throughout the season..but I see my question has been answered

[Guest Brian]

And in a way, that's the way Season 5 should be viewed. Characters came full circle. Angel made that big move he always wanted to make in term of Wolfram and Hart. Spike~! moved out of the shadows. Wesley became the watcher. Gunn became more than just the thug. Fred was truly empowered. And Connor got a second chance.

 

And I was afraid you were going to forget Gunn.

[Ripper 0]

I WILL FUCKING TAKE ALL OF YOUZE ON!

 

SPIKE~! is nothing but LACKEY for Angel.  He didn't deserve to whoop Angels ass and he SUXZ.

Did Angel ever rhyme something with the word "effulgent". Well. DID HE!!!!!

Did Spike ever sing BARRY MANILOW? OR WANG CHUNG??! HUH! ARE YOU HAVING FUN TONIGHT??! CAUSE HE WAS!! YOUSONNOFABITCH! HE WAS!!! EVERYBODY WAS!!! AND HE SANG SO!!

SPIKE~! sung a song called "Rest in Peace".

 

no...

 

 

HE FREESTYLED THAT SHIT. OFF THE TOP OF HIS DOME, SON...OFF HIS DOME~!

 

Did ANGEL ever freestyle a song the captured his relationship with BUFFY. DID he ever fuck Buffy so good that it knocked a goddamned building down? Well....DID HE!!!!!

[Anakin Flair 0]

The only reason Harmony was in the top 3 was due to the Blue bra. Otherwise, aside from a few bright moments, she was utterly useless.

 

Rudo, you NEED to put your 'Man They Call Hamilton' song into Hamiltons bio.

 

Anyanka, I don't think The First truley cared when Buffy died, as it sent the Ubervamp after her more than once.

 

EDIT: I think I finally realised why the Ubervamp was so invincible the first few times Buffy faced it, but became easier for her to kill later on. the first times she faced it, she was exhausted, injured, broken down physically and mentaly. Later on, she was more rested up, her injuries were healed up, and on top of that, she was probably juiced up from the Slayer Spell.

[Ravenbomb 0]

I figured it was because the First released the original Uber Vamp, so it was at full strength. The ones in the seal weren't released, they were just hanging about, they weren't at full strength. Which is why the hard to kill one was grey, and the not so hard to kill ones had more of a flesh colour to them

[Anakin Flair 0]

I didn't remember how much I hated Rona untill today.

[Guest reekspeak]

Another Anya doll for the girl in question(~!)...

 

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The only reason Harmony was in the top 3 was due to the Blue bra. Otherwise, aside from a few bright moments, she was utterly useless.

 

Rudo, you NEED to put your 'Man They Call Hamilton' song into Hamiltons bio.

 

Anyanka, I don't think The First truley cared when Buffy died, as it sent the Ubervamp after her more than once.

 

EDIT: I think I finally realised why the Ubervamp was so invincible the first few times Buffy faced it, but became easier for her to kill later on. the first times she faced it, she was exhausted, injured, broken down physically and mentaly. Later on, she was more rested up, her injuries were healed up, and on top of that, she was probably juiced up from the Slayer Spell.

 

And she called Lorne "Lorney Tunes", LORNEY TUNES!!! That's why she's a fucking player. Fuck you. FUCK ALL OF YOU!

 

Did ANGEL ever freestyle a song the captured his relationship with BUFFY. DID he ever fuck Buffy so good that it knocked a goddamned building down? Well....DID HE!!!!!

 

Fucking buildings down is serverly overrated. Angel pimped LILAH, EVE, FRED, CORDY, DRU, DARLA, BUFFY, KATE, GWEN, *and* SPIKE. So there!

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Gunn was awesome, he deserved the title of King.

 

I like your list, but I would have put SPIKE~! above Harmony, and replace Hamilton with Lorne. Lorne really evolved this season, he wasn't just some caricature of a network exec that could punch through things. Plus Lorne shot Lindsey dead. Booyah motherfuckers.

 

Re: Spike vs Angel - How many slayers did Angel kill again? I'll give Angel the edge for singing, as WANG CHUNG~ and the insanely great duet with Connor beat out RIP. But Spike has killed more slayers, and also fucked more slayers (uh, if you count the Buffybot). Hell, he got a Buffybot made. Angel never did that, no robots at all. Very weak.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Don't you see Hamilton there sucking his thumb? The man is a PIMP. He puts the IMP in PIMP.

 

You all know nothing. Clearly.

[Mole 0]

The only reason Harmony was in the top 3 was due to the Blue bra. Otherwise, aside from a few bright moments, she was utterly useless.

 

Rudo, you NEED to put your 'Man They Call Hamilton' song into Hamiltons bio.

 

Anyanka, I don't think The First truley cared when Buffy died, as it sent the Ubervamp after her more than once.

 

EDIT: I think I finally realised why the Ubervamp was so invincible the first few times Buffy faced it, but became easier for her to kill later on. the first times she faced it, she was exhausted, injured, broken down physically and mentaly. Later on, she was more rested up, her injuries were healed up, and on top of that, she was probably juiced up from the Slayer Spell.

 

And she called Lorne "Lorney Tunes", LORNEY TUNES!!! That's why she's a fucking player. Fuck you. FUCK ALL OF YOU!

 

Did ANGEL ever freestyle a song the captured his relationship with BUFFY. DID he ever fuck Buffy so good that it knocked a goddamned building down? Well....DID HE!!!!!

 

Fucking buildings down is serverly overrated. Angel pimped LILAH, EVE, FRED, CORDY, DRU, DARLA, BUFFY, KATE, GWEN, *and* SPIKE. So there!

Hamilton is more of a pimp than before just because of this pic.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Here's a question...

 

If you had to show someone 1 episode to "hook" them on the show, what would it be? I'm not necessarily talking about the "best" episode, because even the best episodes (or _especially_ the best episodes) could get someone lost. "The Girl in Question" is probably the worst episode you could possibly pick...

 

So??

[Hank Kingsley 0]

I always thought "Judgment" would be good to show because it has good exposition, good action (although the joust thing is a little over the top) and...

 

...

 

...

 

 

MUCHO KARAOKE!

 

I mean, seriously, I can just imagine someone's face when the first thing they see is a green demon singing "I Will Survive".

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Judge-ment?

[Hank Kingsley 0]

I didn't get that. Was it spelled wrong intentionally, like the trial or whatever it was called the "Judgement"? I'm sure it was, because, you know, hundreds of people saw the title before it made it on the air, they would've said something.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I'm slow, I don't know what episode you are talking about. "Judge-ment?" was a representation of my confusion.

[Anya 0]

The only reason Harmony was in the top 3 was due to the Blue bra. Otherwise, aside from a few bright moments, she was utterly useless.

 

Rudo, you NEED to put your 'Man They Call Hamilton' song into Hamiltons bio.

 

Anyanka, I don't think The First truley cared when Buffy died, as it sent the Ubervamp after her more than once.

 

EDIT: I think I finally realised why the Ubervamp was so invincible the first few times Buffy faced it, but became easier for her to kill later on. the first times she faced it, she was exhausted, injured, broken down physically and mentaly. Later on, she was more rested up, her injuries were healed up, and on top of that, she was probably juiced up from the Slayer Spell.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, it sent the ubie after her, but the ubie made sure to let her live.

 

Buffy being tired doesn't explain the fact that ubie was busting out some crazy kung fu moves.

 

FE mentions that that one ubie was really old, like it says older than insects or something. If there's any explination it's that the first ubie was much older than the others.

 

I don't really see the "ubies are weak in chosen" flaw as much of a flaw though. It's lame, but that's just how minions work. One bad guy alone is tough, in groups they suddenly become weak. Compared to some of the other things in season 7 it's not a big deal.

 

 

 

 

That Anyanka figure is cool. I like how it comes with the hammer.

 

 

OMWF Anya!!

 

[Hank Kingsley 0]

Oh. Season 2 opener, where Angel killed a pregnant woman's guardian and had to take the demon's place in the Judgment, which was a joust in the middle of an LA street.

 

I mean, how could you forget? Hello, "Mandy"! Some demon singing "I'm so excited!" and Lorne singing "I Will Survive"! It's gold!

[LaParkaMarka 0]

It's tough to pick one of the later season eps, just because there's so much backstory a new viewer wouldn't understand. Waiting in the Wings could be good, in that it's shot really well and the story isn't too difficult to follow. Plus everyone understands love triangles.

 

Maybe the episode in season 1 with the parasite demon (1st appearance of Kate)...early on enough so that it's easy to follow.

[Hank Kingsley 0]

Oh, "Are You Now or Have You Ever Been" is one of my favorite eps, and it'd work as a really good introduction, too. Great flashbacks, cool idea for a demon (even if he did sound like Foghorn Leghorn in corporeal form), and, hell, it introduces what would be the setting for three seasons.

[Anya 0]

One of the season 1 monster of the week eps would be the best way to start.

 

 

 

I introduced my mom to the Buffyverse with the girl in question.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I'm clearly not the fan I've built myself up as.

 

Clearly.

 

All that stuff aside, I think "A Hole in the World" - my complete bias aside - would be an effective opening episode.

 

First of all, the viewer gets to emotionally relate and connect with Fred and Wes; that, and Illyrias debut, should be enough to hook them on the rest of the season IMO. So after they watch the killer set of episodes at the end of Season 5, they'll want to go back and see how it all came together originally.

 

Secondly, the humour is easy to get and shows a side of Angel that most outsiders don't understand is there.

 

You don't really have to know enough about the characters to follow it -at least, thats in my view. Right away you find out that Angel and Spike don't like each other, that Fred and Wes love each other, and it doesn't get bogged down in any of the mythology. Well, there is Illyria, but that's very simple to understand and gets explained in the episode - there were demons who lived on earth before man; they died and got sent to the well; Illyria is coming back and is in Freds body.

 

And if the person gets hooked, then they'll look back and really appreciate the storytelling involved in the show and how all the characters progressed to that point.

[Hank Kingsley 0]

Yeah, actually, my mom really got hooked on Angel after we watched "AHITW" together. Since then she wanted to watch the rest of season 5 with me. It was crazy. A bit annoying at times when she asked questions about history or something, but crazy.

[Anya 0]

I watched the end of Angel and some of season 7 on FX this time around with my mom. Explaining the mythos is funny. You really see how convoluted and silly some stuff is. Everytime I try to explain it all I am reminded of Giles and Buffy talking about Spike's chip, soul and trigger and Wood getting all confused.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yeah, that's exactly why I don't like watching Buffy or Angel with others. Whenever you're explaining it you think to yourself "This sounds kinda lame and soap operaish... why do I watch it again?"

[Hank Kingsley 0]

...ahahahahahaha.

 

I was browsing some old posts in this forum, and saw some "spoilers" about the end of Buffy season 6.

 

Tara dies but comes back as a ghost to lead Buffy on a vision quest, the The Geek Squad self-destruct as Willow is kidnapped and turned into a human magical energy battery and ends up braindead, and Dawn gets taken away by the state....

 

Ah, foilers. Talk about crazy.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Oh, "Are You Now or Have You Ever Been" is one of my favorite eps, and it'd work as a really good introduction, too. Great flashbacks, cool idea for a demon (even if he did sound like Foghorn Leghorn in corporeal form), and, hell, it introduces what would be the setting for three seasons.

Good choice! That was actually the first episode of Angel I ever saw, and it was excellent. Great intro to the show and to the character Angel.