The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Anya 0]

It has nothing to do with him dying. He does the same fireball 3 times, 2 of which are before he is stabbed. Cyvus just didn't see it coming and it was close range.

 

Wes was always good with magic. We just never really saw him use any offense spells before. Him being good with magic is why he was assigned to fight Vail in the first place.

 

 

I want to know who the 3 other members of the Circle are.

[Guest Brian]

Yeah, Cordy said that in "You're Welcome", that he was always good with the magic.

[Anya 0]

Wes still works the best mojo in town!

 

 

Also, as far as firearms go, I would assume Vail had him checked for weapons before entering his home. Wes didn't just break in, he came to Vail as a guest.

[Ripper 0]

It has nothing to do with him dying. He does the same fireball 3 times, 2 of which are before he is stabbed. Cyvus just didn't see it coming and it was close range.

 

Wes was always good with magic. We just never really saw him use any offense spells before. Him being good with magic is why he was assigned to fight Vail in the first place.

 

 

I want to know who the 3 other members of the Circle are.

Wes made the lil tiny fire ball, then he made it again when Vail took it away from him and told him he crapped better magics than that. It wasn't until he got stabbed and the knife was twisting that he made the gigantic hand super fire ball that sent Vail a-flyin. That was a product of reacting to the pain.

[Anya 0]

The 3rd doesn't look any different than the other 2 to me.

[Jericholic82 0]

I still dont get why wes tried to kill him on his own. He should have stalled him untill Illyria got there. Angel only sent him there to gain his trust as he was Basically Angels right hand man.

 

of course if you had to face all of those monsters like at the end.......

[Ravenbomb 0]

I want to know who the 3 other members of the Circle are.

Fodder

[Anya 0]

He didn't know Cyvus would be so powerful, and even if he did he would have fought him anyway because he's a hero.

 

Illyria wasn't supposed to come. She only came because she killed Izzy and the other 3 so easily. As far as Wes knew there was no backup.

[Anakin Flair 0]

The Gift was just on FX, and I STILL tear up at the end, even five or six years later.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Plus, Wes knew he was going to die anyways. Even when he said he didn't expect to die, he wanted to. He was also the only one in the group who knew any magic, so he'd at least have a chance. Plus, he's the only one who knows who Cyrus Vail is and knows the secret about Connor and the mind trick. Plus, there's the whole thing with the Black Thorn being interested in him, which meant he would be able to get up close to Vail and surprise him.

[Jericholic82 0]

no matter he would have died anyway at the end.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

I watched Destiny again last night. The one problem with that episode is that Spike supremely beating down Angel with that cross should have been the climax of the fight, instead of buried in the middle. His whole wicked speech about how "Drusilla sired me, but you made me a monster!" was great, hammered home all of Spike's problems with Angel.

 

Excellent sequence otherwise though, probably one of the better fight scenes from the Buffyverse.

[Guest Brian]

Shhhh! Don't say that around Mole.

 

Though for the most part, I think I agree. As far as one-on-one, I think it is the best. Maybe Faith/Buffy. Then it comes down to Apocalypse Nowish.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think Apocalypse Nowish has the best fight scene in the whedonverse. Just one awesome thing after another.

[Guest Brian]

There's just so much periphreal stuff going on in the "Destiny" fight scene that makesx it so great, that it's an awful close comparison. I still contend, like in my write-up, that if that had shown the whole thing and now spaced it out with clips in between (or at least a bare minimum), it would have been so much more intense and I think could have surpassed "Apocalypse Nowish".

[LaParkaMarka 0]

One of the other problems with the Destiny fight is how one-sided it is at times. Full of false finishes. Like Spike's "You made me a monster" beatdown, then Angel's heroic comeback, back and forth highspots. And then the actual finish was like a roll-up (the stake portion, if they wanted it as the climax, should have really had a couple of false finishes itself just to build it up).

 

...I'm a wrestling nerd.

[Guest Brian]

For those who are interested:

 

Joss Whedon’s Introductory Note for the Angel Soundtrack

From Rounder.com - 2005-04-20th

 

Live Fast, Die Never : Music from the TV Series "Angel", Coming soon! Angel: Nice guy, but, you know, moody. Shadows, brooding, apocalypses, eternal life, forbidden love hey, we’ve all been there, right? Still, he could lighten up. If Rob Kral had written some happy polka music now and then, I think we would have seen a whole different side to Angel. But no, it’s all sweeping romance and portentous doom. Epic, memorable, and intrinsically related to Angel’s every triumph, defeat, and yes, every bad mood. Music is more important to a show than most people know. A generic score just lays there and let you know exactly what to expect. A BAD score takes you right out of the story. But a good, emotional, textured score can not only heighten every moment of a story, it can (and this is really important in our case) make it feel much more expensive. Rob’s work always gave Angel such epic sweep, without ever sacrificing intimacy. And it isn’t all brooding. I lied about that. There’s scowling. The other goodies here, including an original Greenwalt and our own green demon, pop up to remind us how many strange and varied roads our boy has been on. It’s a fine record of Angel’s journey, which was, to say the least, never dull. Enjoy! (But, you know, not in a cheerful way...) -joss whedon ’Live Fast, Die Never’ includes original music from the television series ’Angel’ composed by Robert J. Cral plus the theme performed by Darling Violetta and tracks by Kim Richey, Vast, Christian Kane and cast members.

 

To order online from outside the U.S.A. please visit: http://www.roundereurope.com

 

Live Fast, Die Never: Music from the TV Series "Angel" has 25 tracks:

Win. Media Track Title Time Real Audio

N/A N/A 1 Angel Main Theme - "The Sanctuary Extended Remix" - Darling Violetta 03:23 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 2 Start the Apocalypse - Robert J. Carl 03:35 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 3 The End of the World - Robert J. Carl 01:42 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 4 Massive Assault - Robert J. Carl 03:14 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 5 Home - Robert J. Carl 01:56 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 6 Hero - Robert J. Carl 05:24 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 7 Judgment & Jousting - Robert J. Carl 02:02 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 8 The Birth of Angelus - Robert J. Carl 03:30 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 9 Rebellion - Robert J. Carl 03:09 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 10 The Trials for Darla - Robert J. Carl 05:59 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 11 Dreaming of Darla - Robert J. Carl 03:24 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 12 Untouched / Darla’s Fire - Robert J. Carl 02:11 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 13 Darla’s Sacrifice - Robert J. Carl 05:43 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 14 Welcome to Pylea - Robert J. Carl 04:22 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 15 Through the Looking Glass - Robert J. Carl 04:06 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 16 Castle Attack - Robert J. Carl 02:20 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 17 Cordy Meets Fred - Robert J. Carl 02:54 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 18 Princess Cordelia - Robert J. Carl 01:20 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 19 Farewell Cordelia - Robert J. Carl 01:09 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 20 I’m Game - Christophe Beck 01:12 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 21 Touched - Vast 03:58 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 22 LA Song - Christian Kane 03:06 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 23 Lady Marmalade - Andy Hallett 02:29 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 24 It’s Not Easy Being Green - Andy Hallett 02:53 N/A N/A

N/A N/A 25 A Place Called Home - Kim Richey 03:57 N/A N/A

 

Preorder at Amazon

[Jingus 0]

Hell yeah to the tracks from Andy Hallet and other songs by the actors.

 

As to the whole fight scenes argument: truthfully, the fights have always been one of the most boring parts of both series to me. Due to budgetary limitations, there's simply no way that they could've possibly matched the kind of fight scenes you get in big action movies. Compare any of the fights to anything from, say, a Jet Li movie, and you see how really mundane they were. Only a rare few like Apocalypse Nowish even come close. Much more common is laughably bad stuff like the Giant Snake Mayor battle where the financial limitations almost sunk the whole thing.

 

That being said, I do have a few odd favorites. The first Buffy vs. Ubervamp fight always impressed me, that particular stunt guy was on and it did convey the real brutality of the whole affair as Buffy completely got her ass kicked. For some reason most of the Faith fights were better than just about any other action from the series. Lots of the Caleb brawls were very well done (except for the really anticlimactic last one). And of course the swordfight from Becoming Pt. 2 is a classic.

[Anya 0]

Too many of the fights are really short. They also use too much slow mo on Angel. That's what messes up Apocalypse Nowish to me. The slow mo is used when it isn't even a big moment. Do we need to see Wes fall back in slow mo?

 

I really like the final battle with Glory. There's just so much going on. It has a wrecking ball! You can't beat that.

 

 

Both Not Fade Away and Chosen suffer from not having enough time for the fights. What we see is cool, but it's not enough. Like in Chosen you see Xander for like 5 seconds. At first glance, the war with the ubies seems really epic. If you actually look closely you'll see it's like 6 minutes long and only about 10 ubies are killed.

 

 

the guy that played Caine in the episode "Phases" of Buffy is the same actor that plays Sahjan on Angel. I never knew that.

[areacode212 0]

I agree that they overdid the slo-mo on Angel. There were times when it was really cool, like when Connor first came back from Quor'Toth and there were a million things going on in the scene. That was good, but then we had seasons 4 & 5 where they felt the need to slo-mo EVERYTHING. Like in "Soul Purpose". I'm like, why the hell am I watching this guy fall on the car in slo-mo?

 

Fight scenes on WB/UPN shows are never going to be as good as the ones in big action movies, but for TV, they were pretty good. Plus, the stunt coordinators gave us some really nice "spots" over the years: Faith smashing Buffy with the glass door in "This Year's Girl", the Connor/Fred/Gunn vamp fight in "Deep Down"...some good stuff there.

[SuperJerk 0]

One of the other problems with the Destiny fight is how one-sided it is at times. Full of false finishes. Like Spike's "You made me a monster" beatdown, then Angel's heroic comeback, back and forth highspots. And then the actual finish was like a roll-up (the stake portion, if they wanted it as the climax, should have really had a couple of false finishes itself just to build it up).

 

...I'm a wrestling nerd.

I was surprised Angel put Spike over.

[Guest Brian]

My view on fight scenes is that some of the best fight scenes come out of the simple hong Kong method: a couple of lines with extras to yank them, and props. I think "Destiny" does the best in that style. Spike deciding not to stake Angel was him saying that I'm the hero here, and I'm bigger than taking you out. I've grown past. I love it. The great part about this all is that it conveys a great story, of Angel being dethroned, just like Apocalypse Nowish shows this "things_fall_apart" attitude towards Season Three and Four. Great fight scenes tell great stories, just like great wrestling matches.

[Jericholic82 0]

One of the other problems with the Destiny fight is how one-sided it is at times. Full of false finishes. Like Spike's "You made me a monster" beatdown, then Angel's heroic comeback, back and forth highspots. And then the actual finish was like a roll-up (the stake portion, if they wanted it as the climax, should have really had a couple of false finishes itself just to build it up).

 

...I'm a wrestling nerd.

I was surprised Angel put Spike over.

Yea but he no sold his injuries later. Angel is the HHH of the Whedonverse

[Jericholic82 0]

which is why I am working on some fantasy booking persay, Wargames between the scoobies and Team Angel. I have to ask you guys, who should represent each team? (and for fun I'll say everyone, even those who died can apply) Give me some input and I'll punch out that post.

[Jingus 0]

Depends on how many people you're talking about on each team. Also, which side gets crossover people like Spike and faith? Also, what about the various slayers who got their powers in Chosen? Also, what about specialty cases like Oz, who are basically normal people but get super-powered when they turn evil?

 

Crossovers aside, the top 5 badass powerful fighters on either side would probably rank something like this:

 

Scoobies

1. Buffy

2. Willow

3. Demon Anya

4. Riley

5. uh... Wood? Xander? Giles? Pretty much all we've got left are jobbers.

 

Team Angel

1. Ilyria

2. Angel

3. Connor

4. Gunn

5. Wes

 

Looking at that list, I'd say Team Angel would easily wipe out the Scoobies. The only was Buffy could win is if Willow did some hyper death armageddon magic or if they got to have both Spike and Faith.

[Guest Brian]

I think you'd have to split Faith to Angel, where she reformed and sought redemption, and Spike on the other side for similar reasons. Though you have to consider that Spike came to Angel as a champion, whereas he was never that much of a hero in Buffy.

 

Anyways, Wes would bust out the shotgun and end it all.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Team Angel slaughtered the Black Thorn. I think the Black Thorn could have taken the Scoobs. Without Demon Anya, who really shouldn't count, I really don't see Buffy/Willow/Riley/Giles/Xander taking on the Thorn. That Devil guy would have ripped out Xander's other eye and shoved it down Riley's throat (why does this image make me smile?), Cyvus would have demolished Willow. Buffy might be able to take Hamilton.

[Guest Brian]

It all kinda depends on the extent of Willow and Illyria's powers. If Illyria can freeze time, she could take them out in a blink.

[Ravenbomb 0]

It all kinda depends on the extent of Willow and Illyria's powers. If Illyria can freeze time, she could take them out in a blink.

literally

[Anya 0]

Black Thorn is overrated. Their power lies in influence, not necessarily at fighting.

 

Cyvus Vail is strong but doesn't seem to be much of a match for Buffy. One super punch killed him and Buffy seems to be around the same strength level as Illyria.

 

Helen Brucker is just a demon in a middle aged woman's body with vamp bodyguards.

 

The Sahvrin clan and Fell Brethren are weak.

 

We didn't even see Izzy or Sebassis fight. Who knows how strong they are in combat.

 

The other 3 members appear to be human.

 

 

 

I also think Willow is overrated. The only time she was really badass was as Dark Willow and that was under a special circumstance that's unlikely to ever happen again. Normal Willow's spells are not all that great. She can float and make knives fly at you. Wow big deal. She would be a useful member of the team in terms of support spells like shields and stuff, but it's not like she alone could take out Angel.