I Hate Ray

[godthedog 0]

Ray, Benoit's 10 Germans killed the match for me. I mean...

 

1.) It's a farce to believe that at a world class level of wrestling 10 of the same move in a row would work without being countered at some point. Especially by the man who in kayfabe terms was the best wrestler in the world.

 

2.) It cheapened the move itself.

actually, it makes more sense to me that the more times you do the move, the harder it is to get out of. if you've already been dropped on your head 4 times, shouldn't it be harder to get the strength, speed & coordination to counter than the first time you got dropped on your head?

[Guest The Old Me]

Is this a good thing?

Yes. Yes it is.

[Guest The Old Me]

Ray, Benoit's 10 Germans killed the match for me. I mean...

 

1.) It's a farce to believe that at a world class level of wrestling 10 of the same move in a row would work without being countered at some point. Especially by the man who in kayfabe terms was the best wrestler in the world.

 

2.) It cheapened the move itself.

actually, it makes more sense to me that the more times you do the move, the harder it is to get out of. if you've already been dropped on your head 4 times, shouldn't it be harder to get the strength, speed & coordination to counter than the first time you got dropped on your head?

Shouldn't Austin's neck been broken after 10 of them?

[Guest wildpegasus]

QUOTE (Choken One @ Sep 26 2003, 10:10 PM)

The problem with Benoit is, Besides the fact he has zero ability to carry a interview and his "intensity" makes him look stupid on countless levels.

 

Quote Chocken One

He has an embarassing look, To present him as the head of WWE would be equal to presenting Warrior as the champion...You showcase him and any non watcher will see and think this

 

"God, Look at that Roided Up Freak, Wrestling is so phony"

 

While Angle has a more natural look as does Brock.

 

I'm very critical of image and I couldn't imagine Benoit promoting WWE events ala Rock, Austin, Angle, TBS whom are the best personalites WWE has, even Hunter comes off looking good when not in Kayfabe mode. Undertaker has become a solid personality as he isn't that "dead zombie" anymore...but just your standard biker.

 

It's more then just wrestling ability in the business of wrestling, it's about image...

 

Benoit has ZERO postive images to sell, hasn't shown ANY evidence of personality, and unlike Austin, Rock, Angle, or even Hunter, can't get the crowd behind him unless he busts his ass for 20 minutes...That's not what you want in your champion, You want a guy that gets a reaction right away...

 

Some Might argue, Wrestling's in a down period right now so why not just reward one of the best ever right now since it doesn't matter, That's real shitty business thinking right there "Well, Business isn't going well, Let's just get that transitional title run for a meaningless purpose".

 

Benoit doesn't need the world title, it doesn't define you, Ron Garvin is a World Champion, a transitional one at that and yet not many even recall that reign. If Benoit ever won the WWE title, it would be equal to Garvin's world title run...

 

I think you just made Ray's head explode.

 

Ray...fucking peckerhead.

 

Quote Chocken One

"God, Look at that Roided Up Freak, Wrestling is so phony"

While Angle has a more natural look as does Brock

 

WP-HAHAHA Good one!

 

QUOTE (Choken One @ Sep 26 2003, 10:10 PM)

The problem with Benoit is, Besides the fact he has zero ability to carry a interview and his "intensity" makes him look stupid on countless levels.

WP-I disagree with the interview part and definitely on the intensity part. THAT is the reason why a lot of people I know are big fans of Benoit. It also sets him apart from the masses because nonone can do it like him. Tiger Mask had his high flying, Dynamite had his intensity/bumptaking, Miswawa had his neck bumps, Toyota has workrate and Benoit has intenstity. It immediatly sets these wrestlers apart from the rest of the "normal" pack and makes the viewer stand up and take notice.

 

Quote Chocken One

I'm very critical of image and I couldn't imagine Benoit promoting WWE events ala Rock, Austin, Angle, TBS whom are the best personalites WWE has, even Hunter comes off looking good when not in Kayfabe mode. Undertaker has become a solid personality as he isn't that "dead zombie" anymore...but just your standard biker

 

WP-I've seen Benoit a few times on TV and he comes off good. It also doesn't matter as much in today's climate if you're on the Leno show or not. Besides, there's more than 1 wrestler in a company.

 

Quote Chocken One

Some Might argue, Wrestling's in a down period right now so why not just reward one of the best ever right now since it doesn't matter, That's real shitty business thinking right there "Well, Business isn't going well, Let's just get that transitional title run for a meaningless purpose".

 

WP-Morale-If someone like Benoit( who has had several wrestlers say they'd like to see with Benoit with the belt) actually got the belt it would send a good message to everyone out there. It'd boost overall morale and when morale is up the entire product overall is just simply going to be upgraded. Nothing bad can come out of that. If anyone out there doesn't think Benoit has enough charisma to pull it off (Lesnar cerainly didn't have enough charisma yet the WWE didn't bomb with him as champ) side Benoit up with Heyman or Anderson.

 

Quote Chocken One

Benoit doesn't need the world title, it doesn't define you, Ron Garvin is a World Champion, a transitional one at that and yet not many even recall that reign. If Benoit ever won the WWE title, it would be equal to Garvin's world title run

WP-No it wouldn't because you're forgetting Benoit's greatest asset in the ring. His ability in the ring to make others look better than him and force others to up their game to keep up thus making them look better. Wrestlers looking better makes the overall product look better thus making a Benoit reign a smart thing to do. Not only would you be guaranteed a bunch of best WWE matches ever that fans will look back at with great fondness (always a plus) you got a good chance at reclaiming lost hardcore fans who have gone because those fans now know there's a reason to watch.

 

Quote The New Me I think you just made Ray's head explode.

 

Ray...fucking peckerhead.

 

WP-Yes, so much maturity shown here. That's a good way to win arguements. Curse!

 

Quote Mr Zsasz

1.) It's a farce to believe that at a world class level of wrestling 10 of the same move in a row would work without being countered at some point. Especially by the man who in kayfabe terms was the best wrestler in the world

WP-It would've been bad if Austin countered the 10 germans midway through. Austin's getting more worn down with each german so it wouldn't make sense if he countered midway through.

 

QUOTE (JacK @ Sep 26 2003, 06:07 AM)

 

And yeah, EVERYONE hates Ray, ya know, because he hates EVERYTHING. Bitch bitch bitch, that's all he ever does.

 

WP-I like Ray. I think part of the problem with people not liking Ray's opinions is 1)he disses a little bit too much for people's liking while proclaiming something else great 2) that they haven't watched a lot of the real best matches ever so they don't realise the vast difference there truly is in quality between something like the best of Puro vs the best of WWE. If they did they probably would just nod their heads in agreement with Ray. Even if you don't like Ray listen to what he says. He's doing a good thing in that whatever he promotes is usually top notch stuff.

Edited September 27, 2003 by wildpegasus

[CanadianChick 0]

Edit your post WP. It's stretching the screen.

 

And there is no way that the Benoit/Austin match was better than the Edge/REy vs. Angle/Benoit match. NO way in hell. Benoit/Austin wasn't a classic match that it is portrayed to be. Maybe it is just because of my dislike for Austin, but I thought it was a damn good match, but no ***** classic or anything.

[Guest The Old Me]

WP, please learn how to quote people on here. Your current way is extremely annoying.

[bob_barron 0]

Quote New Me

WP, please learn how to quote people on here. Your current way is extremely annoying.

 

BB: I agree

[Guest wildpegasus]

WP, please learn how to quote people on here.  Your current way is extremely annoying.

 

 

WP-Not too sure on how to do it. I'll change it around if you give instuctions.

 

Edit your post WP. It's stretching the screen

 

WP-If anyone wants to tell me how to reduce the length of the screen I'm all ears too. Computer literacy definitely isn't my thing!

 

And there is no way that the Benoit/Austin match was better than the Edge/REy vs. Angle/Benoit match. NO way in hell. Benoit/Austin wasn't a classic match that it is portrayed to be. Maybe it is just because of my dislike for Austin, but I thought it was a damn good match, but no ***** classic or anything

 

WP-Benoit/Austin wasn't even shown in full as it had stuff taken edited out of it so it's a hard one to truly call as I've heard it was better its original form. If it was allowed to have any sort of descent ending it would've been even greater. I'd still put Benoit/Austin ahead though although I'm a big fan of the Benoit/Angle vs Mysterio/Edge match. Austin being a super heel to the fans the whole match but especially after killing Benoit's stomach/neck on the outside was done well and I loved the 10 german suplex spot as it showed just how bad Benoit wanted the title in his hometown by doing a legit physically exhausting endurance test right after Austin was taunting him. I'd say 41/4* to 41/2*-Loved the emotion Tag Match 41/4*-I loved it so much I thought I was mistakingly watching a joshi match.

[treble 0]

Edit your post WP. It's stretching the screen

 

WP-If anyone wants to tell me how to reduce the length of the screen I'm all ears too. Computer literacy definitely isn't my thing!

Reduce your 'HAHAHAHA'.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Angle isn't the reason ratings are down. It's all the stuff that goes on around him that's the shits.

So I guess if Smackdown was 2 hours of Kurt Angle they'd be outdrawing Survivor? I don't understand what you mean there. It's not like there wasn't crap surrounding Steve Austin in 1998. And let's be real: how well did Angle draw in his two month reign? Was there a single house show sellout? A rating above 3.5?

 

Anyway Angle's hardly been given the ball to run with has he?

 

Up until this week SD has been regularly centered around him, and has been that way since his return last June. The Vengeance commercial was all about him, and the PPV had him kicking two larger guys' asses and winning the title. His reign was dominant. Before his return he had a new video package every week praising him. But there still is the myth that somehow this all isn't "good enough".

 

Anyway, the point I would like to make is that I really don't care if someone is objective about say, Benoit, but when the same people getting upset when objectivity is pointed towards Kurt Angle (or whomever), it undermines their position. All is NOT kosher with Angle and his performances, otherwise that Iron Man match from last week would have been a lot better than it was and more people would have watched it, if he's so good and personable and is the total package.

[Guest Choken One]

I think most casual fans went "Why watch the first 50 minutes when it's the final 10 that really matters anyways"...

 

Which is ratings weren't so great...

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Then they shouldn't have done it in the first place, but that's another point altogether. You said so yourself that Kurt and Brock have great looks and images and I'm sure WWE thought the same way.

 

It's not like there was anything in the first 50 minutes that was particularly great or anything... well, there wasn't in the last 10 either - especially the last couple minutes that made Angle look like an idiot. Who booked that part?

[Guest Choken One]

They do have great looks and are presentable to the general public unlike Benoit, whose missing tooth, unatural looks, Roided veiny arms make him look like the EXACT stereotype of wrestlers "Roid Ragers"...

 

Just how Wildpegsus actually thought benoit's intensity was a good thing? When he cuts his embarassing promos and interviews and he does that pathetic neck thing to make his veins pop and stuff, he looks like a cartoonish idiot.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

They do have great looks and are presentable to the general public unlike Benoit, whose missing tooth, unatural looks, Roided veiny arms make him look like the EXACT stereotype of wrestlers "Roid Ragers"...

Angle and Brock don't fit into the stereotype? That's rich. My point still stands. There isn't a significant difference in viewership from when these two, with their great looks and images, are on top than when Benoit was.

 

Just how Wildpegsus actually thought benoit's intensity was a good thing? When he cuts his embarassing promos and interviews and he does that pathetic neck thing to make his veins pop and stuff, he looks like a cartoonish idiot.

 

Now that your true feelings about the guy are out, the next time I read anything from you about Benoit that isn't hateful, I'll know it's pretentious.

[Guest Choken One]

I still love the guy for what he can do in the ring...

 

I was speaking in terms of Business and Marketing...Benoit isn't appealing in any sense.

 

Brock Lesnar looks like Brian Urlacher's Twin Brother and Angle has the legit Background and he doesn't have his veins popping like benoit does...

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Still waiting for the two to get a 4.0 rating and sell out a house show.

 

That's my point regarding those two. They're supposedly the epitome of what WWE has to offer at the moment but the results don't reflect that.

 

It's exactly why I have hard time taking Shawn Michaels marks seriously with their "it was the midcard's fault that 1996 was a poor year for the WWF!" comments.

 

And what does Brock ressembling a football player have to do with his image?

[Guest Choken One]

Austin and Rock right NOW couldn't get 4.0 draws...

 

The ratings are down because those two characters AREN'T like Savage/Hogan or Rock/Austin but are in that HBK/Hart environment...made for those who follow the business...

 

Ratings aren't going to go up any time soon, why because of a horrible complete package...Just like in 1996, Shawn was having showstealers night in and night out but business was down because While shawn was bumping like a addict, The rest of the card was flooded with duds...Then they found the diamond in the rough in the form of a unlikely source...

 

All they have to do is find that Diamond but it isn't Benoit.

[Guest Choken One]

And what does Brock ressembling a football player have to do with his image?

It means he has the natural look of legit athelete UNLIKE chris benoit.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Austin and Rock right NOW couldn't get 4.0 draws...

They have many times this year already. Next.

 

The ratings are down because those two characters AREN'T like Savage/Hogan or Rock/Austin but are in that HBK/Hart environment...made for those who follow the business...

 

Ratings aren't going to go up any time soon, why because of a horrible complete package...Just like in 1996, Shawn was having showstealers night in and night out but business was down because While shawn was bumping like a addict, The rest of the card was flooded with duds...Then they found the diamond in the rough in the form of a unlikely source...

 

Here we go... the defeatism is coming over the horizon.

 

All they have to do is find that Diamond but it isn't Benoit.

 

Let me guess. John Cena, right? Keep in mind the accolades given to Cena were given to Billy Gunn in mid-1999.

 

It means he has the natural look of legit athelete UNLIKE chris benoit.

 

If a significant amount of people think the same way, the results haven't shown it. Hence my point again.

[Guest Choken One]

Not John Cena at all.

 

 

I'm not like the rest of the yokels here that think he is the Modern Messiah but either is Angle or Benoit.

[Guest The Old Me]

Kane was the one drawing 4.0's before they turned him into a giant pussy. It was the SE factor that was realing the viewers in. It was the marks. The marks, again, won't buy Benoit as a champion.

 

And Choken One is somewhat correct about Benoit's image, IMO. He doesn't look nearly as natural as Angle. I'm not taking anything away from Benoit's WRESTLING ability. The point being made is that Benoit will never be the full package. If this was the 60's or 70's, then sure Benoit could be king.

 

But this is post attitude era. The fans don't want someone who can ONLY wrestle.

[SamoaRowe 0]

Go back to 2000 and watch the Jericho/Benoit feud. They both carried themselves like main eventers in that series and is proof that if they had both been given the ball later that year, the business would be in much better shape now.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Kane was the one drawing 4.0's before they turned him into a giant pussy.  It was the SE factor that was realing the viewers in.  It was the marks.  The marks, again, won't buy Benoit as a champion.

And Kane is nowhere CLOSE to a "cartoonish idiot", now is he? I better brace myself for the rationalizations over THAT.

 

But this is post attitude era.  The fans don't want someone who can ONLY wrestle.

 

Then, pray tell, what exactly do they want and when is it going to be delivered to them?

 

And thanks for no-selling most of my points. So I'll say one of them again. Some of you act like if Smackdown was the 2-hour Kurt Angle variety hour they'd draw in more viewers than Survivor. Or that he's never been given the ball - EVER.

[godthedog 0]

Ray, Benoit's 10 Germans killed the match for me. I mean...

 

1.) It's a farce to believe that at a world class level of wrestling 10 of the same move in a row would work without being countered at some point. Especially by the man who in kayfabe terms was the best wrestler in the world.

 

2.) It cheapened the move itself.

actually, it makes more sense to me that the more times you do the move, the harder it is to get out of. if you've already been dropped on your head 4 times, shouldn't it be harder to get the strength, speed & coordination to counter than the first time you got dropped on your head?

Shouldn't Austin's neck been broken after 10 of them?

of course. austin should've been DEAD after 10 german suplexes, that was a huge problem i had with the match.

[Mystery Eskimo 0]

They do have great looks and are presentable to the general public unlike Benoit, whose missing tooth, unatural looks, Roided veiny arms make him look like the EXACT stereotype of wrestlers "Roid Ragers"...

Having prominent veins doen't automatically mean steroids. It's a natural result of weight lifting. Of course, steroids can make you stronger, resulting in more weight lifted and bigger veins, but in itself it doesn't mean anything.

 

Just saying.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Ray, Benoit's 10 Germans killed the match for me. I mean...

 

1.) It's a farce to believe that at a world class level of wrestling 10 of the same move in a row would work without being countered at some point. Especially by the man who in kayfabe terms was the best wrestler in the world.

 

2.) It cheapened the move itself.

actually, it makes more sense to me that the more times you do the move, the harder it is to get out of. if you've already been dropped on your head 4 times, shouldn't it be harder to get the strength, speed & coordination to counter than the first time you got dropped on your head?

Shouldn't Austin's neck been broken after 10 of them?

of course. austin should've been DEAD after 10 german suplexes, that was a huge problem i had with the match.

Actually I'd expect a wrestler of Austin's caliber to reverse after 2 or 3. Surely he's seen Benoit do this before, and still has the intestinal fortitude and preseance of mind to counter after a mere 3 suplexes?

[CanadianChick 0]

They do have great looks and are presentable to the general public unlike Benoit, whose missing tooth, unatural looks, Roided veiny arms make him look like the EXACT stereotype of wrestlers "Roid Ragers"...

Having prominent veins doen't automatically mean steroids. It's a natural result of weight lifting. Of course, steroids can make you stronger, resulting in more weight lifted and bigger veins, but in itself it doesn't mean anything.

 

Just saying.

I haven't agreed with practically anything CO is saying, but come on now. There's no denying that Benoit is on the roids. Him and Eddie are just as obvious as HHH.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

If anyone thinks Benoit isn't on steroids, they need a wake up call.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Haven't other wrestlers said that Benoit has the hardest cardio workout that they've ever seen? I remember seeing a quote by somebody saying something to that effect.

[CanadianChick 0]

Well, just because you take roids, doesn't mean your not a gym maniac. Steriods don't give you muscles, they just exaggerate the results you get from working out.