Report: Pope's Health 'In a Bad Way

[MrRant 0]

VATICAN CITY - Ailing Pope John Paul (news - web sites) II is "in a bad way," one of his closest advisers said in an interview published Tuesday, calling on the faithful to pray for him.

 

An aide to Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, however, told The Associated Press that the comments in no way indicated John Paul's health had worsened in recent days. Instead, they reflected concern about John Paul's frailty, the aide said.

 

The Polish-born pontiff, who was elected as pope in 1978, is 83 and suffers from Parkinson's disease (news - web sites).

 

"He is in a bad way," Ratzinger told the German weekly Bunte, which said its correspondent spoke with him at the Vatican (news - web sites) on Sept. 22. "We should pray for the pope."

 

Those comments to some degree only confirm what's been obvious in John Paul's recent appearances, but also raised concerns the pope's health might have deteriorated beyond what has visible to all.

 

However, Ratzinger's aide, the Rev. Georg Gaenswein, said Ratzinger's remarks did not mean John Paul's health had worsened in recent days. He said Ratzinger's remarks came in response to a request by a group of visiting German brewers to have an audience with the pontiff while they were in Rome.

 

"They were told, 'Unfortunately, this is not possible. The pope's health doesn't allow him to make a lot of physical effort,'" Gaenswein recalled.

 

Gaenswein noted that conserving strength was particularly important in the run-up to a heavy schedule John Paul has given himself for the month of October, including celebrations of his 25th anniversary as pope.

 

On Sept. 23, the pontiff came down with an intestinal ailment that caused him to skip his weekly general audience the next day.

 

Asked whether Ratzinger's comments indicated any change in the pope's condition, the Vatican press office replied by noting that John Paul would resume the general audience on Wednesday.

 

The pope will also celebrate a Mass on Sunday on the steps of St. Peter's Basilica to raise three churchmen to sainthood, the Vatican announced Tuesday. Canonization ceremonies generally last about two hours, an indication that the pope's doctors think he has the stamina for the appearance.

 

The Vatican recently also announced that the pope is forging ahead with plans to visit a Marian sanctuary in Pompeii, southern Italy, on Oct. 7.

 

On Sunday, John Paul spoke with great difficulty and stopped to catch his breath several times as he announced the appointments of 31 new cardinals from his studio window overlooking St. Peter's Square.

 

Asked whether the pope is taking on too much given his state of health, Ratzinger was quoted as telling Bunte that "that is very probably the case." But, pressed as to whether he could dissuade the ailing pontiff from loading himself with duties, he added: "that's something other people must do."

 

Bunte described the cardinal as speaking in an interview, but Gaenswein denied that a formal interview had been granted.

 

The magazine quoted Gaenswein as saying of the pope: "He cannot walk and stand any more, but for the faithful he is a hero."'

 

Ratzinger, the Vatican's top guardian for doctrinal orthodoxy, celebrated a roughly 1 1/2-hour Mass on Saturday the basilica, a memorial ceremony for John Paul's two predecessors in which the pontiff read the homily.

 

In the last couple of years, top aides have filled in for the pope during several ceremonies in celebrating Mass, while John Paul presides.

 

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And we will await the death wish comments from the usual suspects.

[Ripper 0]

Everytime I see him, I think of the King from Two Towers that was all sickly looking.

 

I hope that he pulls through. But if he doesn't he has had a full life...for a Catholic priest.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

[JangoFett4Hire 0]

Wow, the Pope is ill?

 

Whoa, the Sun rises in the East?!?!?!

[Guest Ram]

Well, he's going to die sooner or later, no matter what.

 

I'm just afraid of whoever follows him.

[Guest JMA]

I'm not a fan of the Pope (or Catholisism in general), but I hope this isn't too serious.

[NYU 0]

As a Catholic, I would never hope that the Pope dies or anything like that. Of course not. But to be fair, as a Catholic, how can one be inspired when he sees the Pope struggle to get off an airplane and just stands on the steps ? Or when he's doing a mass and just sits in one position the whole time, with his head down, slowly mumbling his words, like he's about to fall asleep. The Catholic Church does need someone new to try to get interest back because like I said, when I see the Pope now, I'm not inspired. I just feel sorry for his condition and marvel at how old he's gotten since I saw him last. These aren't the kind of feelings I should be having when I look at him.

 

But regardless of my feelings on this issue, I do hope he gets better, and that he and his family will be blessed.

[Youth N Asia 0]

I'm suprised he's held on this long.

[Guest Anglesault]

Well, this was breaking and startling news ("Pope isn't healthy")

 

Being a Catholic, I hope he gets better, but unfortunately, I'd be shocked if he made Christmas

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I think it's more inspiring to see the Pope try and get off a plane than it is to see some of his more Popely decisions.

 

Like all these new saints he's added recently.

[DARRYLXWF 0]

I'm not a Catholic, but I'll be sad to see him go. I always admired the stuff he did in the twilight years of the Cold War.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

The Pope's been in a bit of a slump lately (priestly abuse, Iraq war) but I certainly hope he's not in a ton of pain.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Hopefully he's gone as the Pope soon. He's done more harm than good to his own faith.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Pope John Paul II did a LOT more good then bad for Catholics, and I dearly hope he gets well.

[Guest Boo_Bradley]

I can't remember who, but some psychic said that after PJP2 dies, the next Pope will have a short term, and the Pope after that will be the ANTICHRIST~

[Bored 0]

Must...avoid...obvious...joke...fuck it.

 

When will HHHPope finally put Death over?

[Guest El Satanico]

"I know just what the pope needs...let me go get it"

 

"Joey you're solution better not be young boys...you know how pope gets about that"

 

"Young boys? what? oh come ooon look who you're talking to here...what kind of person do you take me for"

 

"Get the heck out of here you...why I oughta"

 

 

 

:crickets chirp:

 

oi...what a crowd

[Red Baron 0]

Really?!

 

I thought he looked better

 

(/sarcasm off)

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I still can't believe they talked about making Mother Teresa a saint.

 

Mother Teresa's whole M.O. in life was showing what a person could do without having to be a saint or other such title.

[Vern Gagne 0]

It's still going to happen. You have to be dead like 5 years and have at least 2 miracles contributed to you, before you can be considered for canonization. Mother Theresa will become a Saint though.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

How does somebody get to be the pope?

[Firestarter 0]

Two-thirds majority in a silent ballot by the College of Cardinals.

[Guest BDC]

But there's this debate and if one good point is brought up against the person (by the 'devil's advocate') then we start allllll over. Once you can talk about a person without detracting, you've got grounds for a vote.

 

C'mon, ya stupid history textbook, don't tell me you've got this wrong....

[Nevermortal 0]

I fully believe that the Pope is a vampire. Don't ask me why, but that's my theory. He's out to suck my blood, and someone really needs to stake his ass.

[Guest MD2020]

Two-thirds majority in a silent ballot by the College of Cardinals.

And then they burn the special stuff that makes white smoke.

 

It's going to be weird to have a new pope. I technically was alive for Pope John Paul I, but since he died like 5 days after I was born, I've only seen PJP2.

 

25 years is a long time to be pope. Wouldn't be surprising if they get someone a little older to be the next guy.

[Guest MD2020]

I fully believe that the Pope is a vampire. Don't ask me why, but that's my theory. He's out to suck my blood, and someone really needs to stake his ass.

But he's been out in sunlight. That shoots you vampire theory all to hell.

[Zorin Industries 0]

Does anyone know any of the candidates to replace the Pope? I read a list of some of the rumored top choices about 4 months ago, but I can't find it now.

[Nevermortal 0]

I fully believe that the Pope is a vampire. Don't ask me why, but that's my theory. He's out to suck my blood, and someone really needs to stake his ass.

But he's been out in sunlight. That shoots you vampire theory all to hell.

Maybe he's a day walker, ala Blade.

[Guest Boo_Bradley]

There's some black dude that the media made a stink about last year, as being the 1st real black Pope canidate

 

 

My vote's for Pope Joan

[Guest Boo_Bradley]

"Whenever you see a legend, you can be sure, if you go to

the very bottom of things, that you will find history." (Vallet de Viriville)

Pope Joan is one of the most fascinating, extraordinary characters in Western history -- and one of the least well known. Most people have never heard of Joan the Pope, and those who have regard her story as legend.

 

Yet for hundreds of years -- up to the middle of the seventeenth century -- Joan’s papacy was universally known and accepted as truth. In the seventeenth century, the Catholic Church, under increasing attack from rising Protestantism, began a concerted effort to destroy the embarrassing historical records on Joan. Hundreds of manuscripts and books were seized by the Vatican. Joan’s virtual disappearance from modern consciousness attests to the effectiveness of these measures.

 

Today the Catholic Church offers two principal arguments against Joan’s papacy: the absence of any reference to her in contemporary documents, and the lack of a sufficient period of time for her papacy to have taken place between the end of the reign of her predecessor, Leo IV, and the beginning of the reign of her successor, Benedict III.

 

These arguments are not, however, conclusive. It is scarcely surprising that Joan does not appear in contemporary records, given the time and energy the Church has, by its own admission, devoted to expunging her from them. The fact that she lived in the ninth century, the darkest of the dark ages, would have made the job of obliterating her papacy easy. The ninth century was a time of widespread illiteracy, marked by an extraordinary dearth of record keeping. Today, scholarly research into the period relies on scattered, incomplete, contradictory, and unreliable documents. There are no court records, land surveys, farming accounts, or diaries of daily life. Except for one questionable history, the Liber pontificalis (which scholars have called a "propagandist document"), there is no continuous record of the ninth-century Popes -- who they were, when the reigned, what they did. Apart from the Liber pontificalis, scarcely a mention can be found of Joan’s successor, Pope Benedict III -- and he was not the target of an extermination campaign.

 

Joan’s absence from contemporary church records is only to be expected. The Roman clergymen of the day, appalled by the great deception visited upon them, would have gone to great lengths to bury all written reports of the embarrassing episode. Indeed, they would have felt it their duty to do so. Even the great theologian Alcuin was not above tampering with the truth; in one of his letters he admits destroying a report on Pope Leo III’s adultery and simony.

 

One need only look to the recent examples of Nicaragua and El Salvador to see how a determined and well-coordinated state effort can make embarrassing evidence "disappear." It is only after the distancing effect of time that truth, kept alive by unquenchable popular report, gradually begins to emerge. And, indeed, there is no shortage of documentation for Joan’s papacy in later centuries. Frederick Spanheim, the learned German historian who conducted and extensive study of the matter, cites no fewer than five hundred ancient manuscripts containing accounts of Joan’s papacy, including those of such acclaimed authors as Petrarch and Boccaccio.

 

Today, the church position on Joan is that she was an invention of Protestant reformers eager to expose papist corruption. Yet Joan’s story first appeared hundreds of years before Martin Luther was born. Most of her chroniclers were Catholics, often highly placed in the church hierarchy. Joan’s story was accepted even in official histories dedicated to Popes. Her statue stood undisputed alongside those of the other Popes in the Cathedral of Siena until 1601, when, by command of Pope Clement VIII, it suddenly "metamorphosed" into a bust of Pope Zacharias. In 1276, after ordering a thorough search of the papal records, Pope John XX changed his title to John XXI in official recognition of Joan’s reign as Pope John VIII. Joan’s story was included in the official church guidebook to Rome used by pilgrims for over three hundred years.

 

Another striking piece of historical evidence is found in the well-documented 1413 trial of Jan Hus for heresy. Hus was condemned for preaching the heretical doctrine that the Pope is fallible. In his defense Hus cited, during the trial, many examples of Popes who had sinned and committed crimes against the Church. To each of these charges his judges, all churchmen, replied in minute detail, denying Hus’s accusations and labeling them blasphemy. Only one of Hus’s statements went unchallenged: "Many times have the Popes fallen into sin and error, for instance when Joan was elected Pope, who was a woman." No one of the 28 cardinals, four patriarchs, 30 metropolitans, 206 bishops, and 440 theologians present charged Hus with lying or blaspheming in this statement.

 

There is also circumstantial evidence difficult to explain if there was never a female Pope. One example is the so-called chair exam, part of the medieval papal consecration ceremony for almost six hundred years. Each newly elected Pope after Joan sat on the sella stercoraria (literally, "dung seat"), pierced in the middle like a toilet, where his genitals were examined to give proof of his manhood. Afterward the examiner solemnly informed the gathered people, "Mas nobis nominus est" -- "Our nominee is a man." Only then was the Pope handed the keys of St. Peter. This ceremony continued until the sixteenth century.

 

Another interesting piece of circumstantial evidence is the "shunned street." The Patriarchium, the Pope’s residence and episcopal cathedral (now St. John Lateran) is located on the opposite side of Rome from St. Peter’s Basilica; papal processions therefore frequently traveled between them. A quick perusal of any map of Rome will show that the Via Sacra (now the Via S. Giovanni) is by far the shortest and most direct route between these two locations -- and so in fact it was used for centuries (hence the name Via Sacra, or "sacred road"). This is the street on which Joan reportedly gave birth to her stillborn child. Soon afterward, papal processions deliberately began to turn aside from the Via Sacra.

 

As for the Church’s second argument, that there was not sufficient time between the papacies of Leo IV and Benedict III for Joan to have reigned -- this too is questionable. The Liber pontificalis is notoriously inaccurate with regard to the times of papal accessions and deaths; many of the dates cited are known to be wholly invented. Given the strong motivation of a contemporary chronicler to conceal Joan’s papacy, it would be no great surprise if the date of Leo’s death was moved forward from 853 to 855 -- through the time of Joan’s reported two-year reign -- in order to make it appear that Pope Leo was immediately succeeded by Pope Benedict III.