Forget Boston, Chicago Has The Curse Instead

[Guest Choken One]

Damn...Steve Bartman...so many name calls with THAT one.

[Guest Choken One]

Great So he just *HAS* to be a nice guy doesn't he?

[treble 0]

Doing a little bit of Googling, I've found this Bartman guy's e-mail addy (well, his work one, at least). That's going to be flooded, since it wasn't too hard to find.

[River City Rocker 0]

http://www.renegadesbaseball.com/

 

This is the team that the article said Steve Bartman helped coach.

 

The site is "down for improvements".

 

Suuuuuuure!

 

-Ben

[Lightning Flik 0]

OK, the Cubs don't give up 8 runs if the fan doesn't get in Alou's way.  I'm not saying that they don't give up any runs at all, the Marlins could have even tied it, but that one play changed the whole dynamic of the game.

I went to bed, so I couldn't respond. Sue me for the lateness of this.

 

One play? Excuse me? I didn't just see one play that fucked things up for the Cubs. 8 runs does not justify one play going wrong. That's eight plays too many.

 

Yes, I can understand a little collapse. Maybe two runs at best. But eight? Come on, you are giving that fan a little too much credit there.

 

That's like saying a team (I'll use a hockey one) is up 7-0 with 5 minutes left in the game, lets in a single fluke goal from behind the opposition's own net because it took a funny hop. Do you let that bother you? Yes, probably if the puck takes a funny hop on the ice again. But their still up 7-1. That's barely an excuse to allow a 5 minute collapse so that they not only allow their opponents to tie the game, but to beat them out like 12-7. And their only excuse is "if only the ice didn't allow for that silly hop, then we'd have that win".

 

It's an excuse. That fan costed them an out. They are professional players. Shit like that shouldn't bother them. It's not a reason that they botched a game they had control of. It's not a reason for them to allow eight runs in a single inning. It is not a reason that the guy would've done the SAME EXACT THING YOU WOULD DO~!

 

It was a foul ball. You cannot say to me "oh he's a bad man for going after that ball." What about the other fans reaching for it as well? Where the fuck is blame on those guys? They were reaching for it as well, not just that single fan. Why don't you blame every single one of them. Can you honestly tell me you wouldn't have reached for it? It's a foul ball. Honestly, I would've done it. I would've went after that ball, cause by all accounts, it was foul. It's coming my way, and I've got a chance to catch it. If I was sitting in the bleachers where he was, I probably would've guessed that Alou didn't have a shot at getting it. It probably seemed that way.

 

In the end, the Cubs are the only ones that can be blamed for eight runs being scored. How the hell can one fan be blamed for a team's own fuck up.

 

It's an excuse of the poorest kind to blame that single fan. If you blow a lead and allow yourself to get trumped up all in one fell swoop, you and only you are accountable in the end. Whatever happens otherwise is just something you must just learn happened, it was done and live with it.

[Dr. Tom 0]

Even if Bartman doesn't stick his hand out and deflect the ball, there's no guarantee Alou makes the catch. You just can't presume that's going to happen when he reaches into the crowd. Yes, Alou is a competent outfielder. But there were other hands in the immediate area; who's to say his glove doesn't hit one and jar the ball loose? There was also a railing right there; who's to say his glove doesn't hit the railing and knock the ball loose? You simply can't presume a catch is going to be made when a player reaches into the stands for the ball. THAT is why Bartman shouldn't be crucified for the Cubs' loss.

[Guest Putty]

Steve Bartman dirt:

 

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

 

The man some fans blame for Tuesday night's Cubs loss because he reached out and touched a foul ball that Moises Alou was trying to catch is a diehard Cubs fan who coaches youth baseball in the north suburbs.

 

 

Steve Bartman, 26, works at Hewitt Associates, an international consulting firm in Lincolnshire.

 

"He is an associate at Hewitt, and he is not coming to work today because of the incident," Suzanne Zagata-Meraz, a spokeswoman for Hewitt, said this morning. "That was a decision that Steve and [Human Resources] made together. We have been in contact with Steve."

 

 

A man who answered the door at the Northbrook home where friends and a neighbor said Bartman grew up defended him, saying he only did what came naturally when a foul ball came his way.

 

 

"He's a huge Cubs fan," said the man, who responded to "Mr. Bartman." "I'm sure I taught him well. I taught him to catch foul balls when they come near him."

 

 

He declined to say any more and would not confirm what relation he is to Steve Bartman.

 

 

A neighbor, Ron Cohen, said he has known the Bartman family for 20 years. He and others said Bartman was a graduate of the University of Notre Dame who played for and is now a coach for the Renegades, an elite youth baseball club in Niles.

 

 

Cohen said he saw Bartman on Sunday and that Bartman told him then that he had tickets to Tuesday's game.

 

 

"He felt great he got tickets to the game," said Cohen, 63.

 

 

Cohen was watching the game on TV with his son, who grew up with "Stevie," when they recognized the man in the Renegades shirt.

 

 

"I really was just surprised," said Cohen, who called Bartman's mother. "I think it's just a natural tendency. Everybody reaches. I'm not trying to defend him, but I think it's just a natural tendency. He may not have seen Alou coming."

 

 

He described Bartman as a baseball fanatic.

 

 

"He's a good kid, a wonderful son, never in any trouble," Cohen told a Sun-Times reporter. "I don't think he should be blamed at all. People reach for balls. This just happened to be a little more critical. If Florida didn't score all the runs, you wouldn't be standing here."

 

 

A parent whose son played baseball for the Renegades last year echoed Cohen's description of Bartman.

 

 

"He was a fine guy. He was a good baseball coach to my son," said Roger Shimanovsky, 41. "Believe me, I'm sure nobody feels worse about this than him."

 

 

Bartman is listed as a coach of the Renegades' 13-year-old team this year, according to the organization's Web site.

 

 

He also was a player on a 1992 Renegades team that finished with 47 wins and 10 losses. The team was the Palatine League champion and the Pekin Fourth of July tournament champion.

 

 

The home where Bartman grew up backs up to a baseball field where his dad would hit pop-ups for him and his friends to catch, said Ron Cohen's son, Gary Cohen, 34. He said Bartman's favorite player growing up was Cubs second baseman Ryne Sandberg.

[Guest Just J]

That one out didn't make a differance. IT WAS 8, EIGHT RUNS!

 

Now if the game was dicided by a single run then lynch the guy. But that wasn't the case so calm down. The Cubs would have gotten their asses beaten in that game anyway.

[OldSchoolWrestling 0]

That one out didn't make a differance. IT WAS 8, EIGHT RUNS!

 

Now if the game was dicided by a single run then lynch the guy. But that wasn't the case so calm down. The Cubs would have gotten their asses beaten in that game anyway.

In the end it may look that way, but had that catch been made, their would have been 2 outs. You could totally sense the momentum shift when that happened. There was something bigger at work there.

 

Reminds me totally of the Raiders-Patriots tuck rule game. The second they ruled it wasn' t a fumble, the Raiders were deflated. Yes they still had chances to win the game, but you could feel the shift.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I do not believe in momentum in baseball.

 

Let me clarify...in baseball...there is so much skill invoved with the batter vs. pitcher matchup...that I don't believe that an entire team can will itself to not make outs after being killed all day. I do think that one guy can lock in a little better after something like that...but to think that they'd throw up 8 runs as a result of momentum...I don't buy it.

 

What I do buy is the Cubs making mistakes. Lots of mistakes. Lots of pitching mistakes. That's all.

 

Cubs lose today. They have the better team, the better pitcher going, they're at home and I want them to win.

 

But the Cubs lose today...because mentally...they've already lost.

[treble 0]

One play? Excuse me? I didn't just see one play that fucked things up for the Cubs. 8 runs does not justify one play going wrong. That's eight plays too many.

I never said that it was the only play the Cubs fucked up, but you can't deny that missed catch changed the whole game. Instead of a runner on 2nd with 2 outs, you end up with runners on 1st and 3rd with one out. That's huge.

 

Yes, I can understand a little collapse. Maybe two runs at best. But eight? Come on, you are giving that fan a little too much credit there.

No, you can't blame the fan for all the runs and the Cubs shouldn't be, either, but my point is 8 runs don't score if Alou makes that catch (and the ball was going to fall right in his glove before Bartman's hand got in the way, so I believe that he would have come up with it).

 

That's like saying a team (I'll use a hockey one) is up 7-0 with 5 minutes left in the game, lets in a single fluke goal from behind the opposition's own net because it took a funny hop. Do you let that bother you? Yes, probably if the puck takes a funny hop on the ice again. But their still up 7-1. That's barely an excuse to allow a 5 minute collapse so that they not only allow their opponents to tie the game, but to beat them out like 12-7. And their only excuse is "if only the ice didn't allow for that silly hop, then we'd have that win".

Well, that's a little different, as a 3-0 lead in baseball is nowhere near as safe as a 7-0 lead in hockey (or even a 3-0 lead, for that matter). Again, the Cubs shouldn't be blaming the fan for the loss, but he did play a part in turning the game around in the Marlins favour.

 

It's an excuse. That fan costed them an out. They are professional players. Shit like that shouldn't bother them. It's not a reason that they botched a game they had control of. It's not a reason for them to allow eight runs in a single inning. It is not a reason that the guy would've done the SAME EXACT THING YOU WOULD DO~!

No, it shouldn't bother them and, again, the Cubs shouldn't blame him for the loss, but he did change the game and (indirectly) lead to at least 1 run for the Marlins (Pierre, I think it was, who went to 3rd on the wild ball four pitch) and that opened the floodgates. And, yeah, I probably would have tried to catch that ball, but if I did what Bartman did, I'd probably feel like shit about it right now.

 

It was a foul ball. You cannot say to me "oh he's a bad man for going after that ball." What about the other fans reaching for it as well? Where the fuck is blame on those guys? They were reaching for it as well, not just that single fan. Why don't you blame every single one of them. Can you honestly tell me you wouldn't have reached for it? It's a foul ball. Honestly, I would've done it. I would've went after that ball, cause by all accounts, it was foul. It's coming my way, and I've got a chance to catch it. If I was sitting in the bleachers where he was, I probably would've guessed that Alou didn't have a shot at getting it. It probably seemed that way.

No, the fan didn't break any rules and I never said that he did. He had full rights to try and catch it, even if it was a stupid thing to do.

 

In the end, the Cubs are the only ones that can be blamed for eight runs being scored. How the hell can one fan be blamed for a team's own fuck up.

If Alou catches that ball, then Castillo is not on base to score, plain and simple, so there's 1 run that can be directly attributed to Alou not catching it. The main reason Alou couldn't catch it was because the fan got in his way. I never blamed the fan for the Cubs allowing 8 runs, but he did indirectly make it easier for the Marlins to do so.

 

It's an excuse of the poorest kind to blame that single fan. If you blow a lead and allow yourself to get trumped up all in one fell swoop, you and only you are accountable in the end. Whatever happens otherwise is just something you must just learn happened, it was done and live with it.

I agree, the Cubs should take it upon themselves to realize that they blew the lead, not the fan, BUT, the fan changed the game and even though it's impossible to know what would have happened if Alou caught it, it's not unreasonable to believe that the Cubs get out of the inning with the lead intact, or at least not down by 5 runs.

[OldSchoolWrestling 0]

I do not believe in momentum in baseball.

 

Let me clarify...in baseball...there is so much skill invoved with the batter vs. pitcher matchup...that I don't believe that an entire team can will itself to not make outs after being killed all day. I do think that one guy can lock in a little better after something like that...but to think that they'd throw up 8 runs as a result of momentum...I don't buy it.

 

What I do buy is the Cubs making mistakes. Lots of mistakes. Lots of pitching mistakes. That's all.

 

Cubs lose today. They have the better team, the better pitcher going, they're at home and I want them to win.

 

But the Cubs lose today...because mentally...they've already lost.

But its impossible that they lost mentally last night after the fan interference?

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/cubfan1.html

 

The Smoking gun is there!

 

Its nothing not already known, but its still cool the guy made TSG..

[PsychoDriver 0]

I feel so bad for that poor guy. It's just freaking instinct a foul ball comes your way you try to catch it. No reason to make the guy a scapegoat, he was just a fan enjoying the damn game... I seriously hope the Cubs win and clear this poor guy.

 

They should blame the Shortstop who made that error or the choice to walk that guy.

[treble 0]

Even if the Cubs do win tonight but end up losing in the World Series, you know that he'll just get blamed for messing up the starting rotation.

[C Dubya 04 0]

Reminds me totally of the Raiders-Patriots tuck rule game. The second they ruled it wasn' t a fumble, the Raiders were deflated. Yes they still had chances to win the game, but you could feel the shift.

I've always hated this as well.

 

Shit happens. Both the tuck rule and the foul ball undoubtably hurt the Raiders and the Cubs, but they're not the only reason they lost those games. If you can't get over a bad play, you don't deserve to win anyways.

 

I think the foul ball is even worse. All Prior had to do was get another strike, but he didn't. He walked the guy. All Baker had to do was get off his ass and go calm his team down, but he didn't. He sat there and did nothing. Even when it was clear to most everyone that Prior was starting to lose it (look at the two pitches he served up on a plate to Pudge) Baker just sat there letting the fan get to him. All Gonzoles had to do was field a simple ground ball that likely would have been a double play and they're out of the inning. But he booted it.

 

I'm sick of the Cubs crying about a fan costing them the game. They need to toughen up and not let it cost them the penate. It's like they were looking for an excuse to lose.

[Lightning Flik 0]

I never said that it was the only play the Cubs fucked up, but you can't deny that missed catch changed the whole game. Instead of a runner on 2nd with 2 outs, you end up with runners on 1st and 3rd with one out. That's huge.

 

No, you can't blame the fan for all the runs and the Cubs shouldn't be, either, but my point is 8 runs don't score if Alou makes that catch (and the ball was going to fall right in his glove before Bartman's hand got in the way, so I believe that he would have come up with it).

 

Well, that's a little different, as a 3-0 lead in baseball is nowhere near as safe as a 7-0 lead in hockey (or even a 3-0 lead, for that matter). Again, the Cubs shouldn't be blaming the fan for the loss, but he did play a part in turning the game around in the Marlins favour.

 

No, it shouldn't bother them and, again, the Cubs shouldn't blame him for the loss, but he did change the game and (indirectly) lead to at least 1 run for the Marlins (Pierre, I think it was, who went to 3rd on the wild ball four pitch) and that opened the floodgates. And, yeah, I probably would have tried to catch that ball, but if I did what Bartman did, I'd probably feel like shit about it right now.

 

No, the fan didn't break any rules and I never said that he did. He had full rights to try and catch it, even if it was a stupid thing to do.

 

If Alou catches that ball, then Castillo is not on base to score, plain and simple, so there's 1 run that can be directly attributed to Alou not catching it. The main reason Alou couldn't catch it was because the fan got in his way. I never blamed the fan for the Cubs allowing 8 runs, but he did indirectly make it easier for the Marlins to do so.

 

I agree, the Cubs should take it upon themselves to realize that they blew the lead, not the fan, BUT, the fan changed the game and even though it's impossible to know what would have happened if Alou caught it, it's not unreasonable to believe that the Cubs get out of the inning with the lead intact, or at least not down by 5 runs.

No. I can deny it. Where the hell was the pitching? Where the hell was the defense? So the guy botched an out. So it's 1st and 3rd with 1 out. Are you telling me that because of ONE single person, that the game was decided? If so, then the Cubs (and their fans) don't deserve to win the Series if they believe the game was decided by that one happening. I'm sorry, I don't buy that a whole team gets fully deflated because of a single happening. If so, then they aren't Championship material and should be no where near the Series.

 

And you don't get it. What if Alou didn't catch it? You are basing it on that Alou would've totally caught it no problem. Therein lies fault: what ifs. What if there still is a chance that Alou didn't have it. Sure could've been catchable, but who's to say Alou didn't hit the fence and the ball drifts out and falls thus no out. What if there was no fan interfence and Alou didn't make the catch at all? You know what, there are a lot of what ifs could've happened. It happened, and you fucking move on. As I said before, if they can't get over stuff that is apart of the game, which happens to be fans going after foul balls and homeruns, how can they expect to win the Series?

 

I picked 7-0 as an example. You should know that it was an example. And I declare bullshit on your statement of "a 3-0 lead in baseball is different than a 3-0 lead in hockey". If you've got the defence playing right, the pitching doing stellar, a 3-0 lead can be as safe as any lead. As long as you play like it means everything in the world. Obviously, for the Cubs, that lead wasn't the most important thing to them (as apparently, they let a single fan become their focal point). And how did that fan turn the game into the Marlins favour? You mean the Marlins couldn't actually put forth a decent effort otherwise? You mean that they weren't trying to put out an effort to make another game out of this? You mean that the Marlins weren't trying to gain a Series birth?

 

You go from saying "he changed the flow of the game" and thusly it costed them the game, to "he shouldn't be blamed for the loss", then back to "opened the floodgates". Yes, I stretched what you said out a little bit, but seriously, you are being a little hypocritical as you were saying he was responsible for the loss but kinda-not really-sorta saying he isn't now. As for feeling like shit, I probably would too. Just because I costed the team a chance at an out. Not because the Cubs blew the game.

 

Yes, it was stupid thing that everyone does and thusly because it's done now, it's a big deal. But you are arguing that the guy costed the game for the Cubs. If he costed the Cubs the game, breaking rules or not, you still are attesting that he was in the wrong. You can't tell me otherwise.

 

Again, as I said before, so it's a little easier. It fucking happens. It's apart of the game and the Cubs still could've ended it right then and there if they weren't going off "oh our big fan costed us the game, wah, wah, wah" in their little heads. Please, I'm tired of this. Yes, it's a big game. Yes, the fan did something stupid. But you know, it's apart of the game and if that one little thing bothers that team, I really hope the Marlins kick the fucking hell out of the Cubs in the next game.

 

The fan did something silly. Weee... Like this hasn't happened many, many times before, in different baseball games and in important games. But you know what's really funny, the only reason this one time is getting the press or the guy is getting self-right blame at him, is not because the guy is a Cubs fan and he (supposedly) blew his teams chance to win, or that the Cubs (supposedly) lost because of it, or even that it was a stupid thing to do. It's the fact that the Cubs self-imploded because of it. That the Cubs basically tossed in the towel from a little mishap that could've been done by any other person. It's only because, the Cubs gave up and costed themselves the game.

[treble 0]

No. I can deny it. Where the hell was the pitching? Where the hell was the defense? So the guy botched an out. So it's 1st and 3rd with 1 out. Are you telling me that because of ONE single person, that the game was decided? If so, then the Cubs (and their fans) don't deserve to win the Series if they believe the game was decided by that one happening. I'm sorry, I don't buy that a whole team gets fully deflated because of a single happening. If so, then they aren't Championship material and should be no where near the Series.

No, the fan didn't decide the game, but he did play a role in the outcome, and, like I said before, the Cubs shouldn't be blaming the entire loss on him but to say he had no say in what happened in the game is false.

 

And you don't get it. What if Alou didn't catch it? You are basing it on that Alou would've totally caught it no problem. Therein lies fault: what ifs. What if there still is a chance that Alou didn't have it. Sure could've been catchable, but who's to say Alou didn't hit the fence and the ball drifts out and falls thus no out. What if there was no fan interfence and Alou didn't make the catch at all? You know what, there are a lot of what ifs could've happened. It happened, and you fucking move on. As I said before, if they can't get over stuff that is apart of the game, which happens to be fans going after foul balls and homeruns, how can they expect to win the Series?

I believe Alou would have caught it had the fan not got in his way. We can play 'what if' all night but that's just what I believe. And yeah, if the Cubs can't recover from that tonight, then they don't deserve to win the series (and won't).

 

I picked 7-0 as an example. You should know that it was an example. And I declare bullshit on your statement of "a 3-0 lead in baseball is different than a 3-0 lead in hockey". If you've got the defence playing right, the pitching doing stellar, a 3-0 lead can be as safe as any lead. As long as you play like it means everything in the world. Obviously, for the Cubs, that lead wasn't the most important thing to them (as apparently, they let a single fan become their focal point). And how did that fan turn the game into the Marlins favour? You mean the Marlins couldn't actually put forth a decent effort otherwise? You mean that they weren't trying to put out an effort to make another game out of this? You mean that the Marlins weren't trying to gain a Series birth?

A 3-0 lead in baseball can disappear with one swing of the bat, while in hockey once you get a 3 goal lead, you can start playing a more defensive game, something that's much harder to do in baseball (you probably aren't going to want to make too many defensive substitutes if your lead isn't very big). And, the play turned the game in the Marlins favour since it gave them an opportunity to have 2 men on with only 1 out as opposed to only a runner on 2nd with 2 outs. Sure, the Marlins were still trying, but it hadn't been paying off until that point.

 

You go from saying "he changed the flow of the game" and thusly it costed them the game, to "he shouldn't be blamed for the loss", then back to "opened the floodgates". Yes, I stretched what you said out a little bit, but seriously, you are being a little hypocritical as you were saying he was responsible for the loss but kinda-not really-sorta saying he isn't now. As for feeling like shit, I probably would too. Just because I costed the team a chance at an out. Not because the Cubs blew the game.

What I mean is that the Cubs can't sit around going, 'Oh well, we would have won the game if it wasn't for that fan.' They have to look in the mirror and realize that they blew the game themselves, that the fan didn't help things along but it was their own fault for giving up most of those 8 runs.

 

Yes, it was stupid thing that everyone does and thusly because it's done now, it's a big deal. But you are arguing that the guy costed the game for the Cubs. If he costed the Cubs the game, breaking rules or not, you still are attesting that he was in the wrong. You can't tell me otherwise.

He never broke any rules, but unintentionally he hurt the Cubs by getting in Alou's way. And I've never said he was the reason that the Cubs lost, just that he contributed to at least 1 of the the Marlins' 8 runs.

 

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that he DID hurt the Cubs and you can't ignore the fact that at least 1 of the Marlins runs, maybe 2, can be blamed on him and that opened up the floodgates for the Marlins to score 8 total. So while he's not totally at fault, he's not totally blameless, either.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Of course what's missing from the Blame Game is what was Mr. Baker doing with a shortstop by the name of GONZALEZ out on the field in the middle of a chilly Chicago night?

 

Dusty, of all people, should know better...

[Swift Terror 0]

This Bartman guy should contact whatever that company/product is that does the TV commercials where someone gets in a very embarrassing situation and the tag line is "Wanna Get Away?" I'm sure there are a lot more endorsements to be had.

 

He might as well try to capitalize on the whole mess, make some cash.

[Lightning Flik 0]

No, the fan didn't decide the game, but he did play a role in the outcome, and, like I said before, the Cubs shouldn't be blaming the entire loss on him but to say he had no say in what happened in the game is false.

 

I believe Alou would have caught it had the fan not got in his way. We can play 'what if' all night but that's just what I believe. And yeah, if the Cubs can't recover from that tonight, then they don't deserve to win the series (and won't).

 

A 3-0 lead in baseball can disappear with one swing of the bat, while in hockey once you get a 3 goal lead, you can start playing a more defensive game, something that's much harder to do in baseball (you probably aren't going to want to make too many defensive substitutes if your lead isn't very big). And, the play turned the game in the Marlins favour since it gave them an opportunity to have 2 men on with only 1 out as opposed to only a runner on 2nd with 2 outs. Sure, the Marlins were still trying, but it hadn't been paying off until that point.

 

What I mean is that the Cubs can't sit around going, 'Oh well, we would have won the game if it wasn't for that fan.' They have to look in the mirror and realize that they blew the game themselves, that the fan didn't help things along but it was their own fault for giving up most of those 8 runs.

 

He never broke any rules, but unintentionally he hurt the Cubs by getting in Alou's way. And I've never said he was the reason that the Cubs lost, just that he contributed to at least 1 of the the Marlins' 8 runs.

 

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that he DID hurt the Cubs and you can't ignore the fact that at least 1 of the Marlins runs, maybe 2, can be blamed on him and that opened up the floodgates for the Marlins to score 8 total. So while he's not totally at fault, he's not totally blameless, either.

If he didn't decide the game how can he be responsible, in any sense, for the loss? This is what I'm getting at. You keep saying that he's partly the reason for the loss. But he can only be accounted for at most single run, and that's only playing what ifs. That means that all he did was make it 3-1. How is he partly responsible for the other 7 runs? Did he suddenly start playing for the Marlins? Because I certainly didn't see him on the field against the Cubs.

 

I don't think he (Alou) would've had it. And this is the problem. It's not clear or cut by any angles I have seen that he had a clear shot regardless of if the fan got in the way. My own train of opinion is that Alou was a little late in getting there and it would've been in the stands regardless. At least you agree with me that the Cubs hated it.

 

On the order of it's different because you can play much more defensive, must I bring up the fact that Indy vs. TB from the NFL? Um, TB's about as defensive as it gets, yet a 21 point lead was destroyed. So no lead is a safe lead. But yes, they did take advantage of something that shouldn't have bothered the Cubs as much as it apparently did.

 

Oh. Well you see, I didn't take it the way you said, but now that you say it like that, I get it better.

 

I didn't say he didn't cause an out from being lost (and maybe the run). But the rest of it, is the Cubs fault.

[Eclipse 0]

Funny thing is, here in NJ/NY, they announce the name of the fan who basically killed it for the Cubs. The radio stations here are like, "They need to put the man in suicide watch, or maybe he should watch out tomorrow at work."

[Guest MikeSC]

But there would have been less people on base when Gonzalez booted it and the entire situation would have been different. Gonzalez should have made the play, but there's no way the Marlins put up 8 if the fan gets out of Alou's way.

And if the Cubs didn't choke away Game 5, then it would be a non-issue.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

Too late, I believe his name is already being pastered all over Chicago newspapers, radio, and TV.

After their reaction to it, I'm GLAD the Cubs choked the series away.

 

They DESERVED this loss --- and they will never be this close anytime soon.

 

Serves those immature little whiners right.

-=Mike

[the pinjockey 0]

Yes, with Prior/Wood/Zambrano/Clement, they will never be anywhere close anytime soon.

 

Where can you honestly go with 4 good pitchers who are still on the rise?

[Guest MikeSC]

Doing a little bit of Googling, I've found this Bartman guy's e-mail addy (well, his work one, at least). That's going to be flooded, since it wasn't too hard to find.

Jesus Christ, why do jackass Cub fans have to treat ANYBODY like this? Searching out his e-mail and home address?!?!? Is there NOTHING better to do in Chicago?

 

I used to like the Cubs and wanted to see them in the World Series.

 

I'm now glad that they might never be there in my lifetime.

 

Go ahead and riot and firebomb his house.

 

Show the world how shitty Cub fans can be.

-=Mike

...Who again reminds you, it was the Cubs fault they didn't put Florida away --- not that poor guy's

[Guest MikeSC]

Yes, with Prior/Wood/Zambrano/Clement, they will never be anywhere close anytime soon.

 

Where can you honestly go with 4 good pitchers who are still on the rise?

They had a 3-1 lead, having beaten the Marlins 3 straight, and couldn't put them away in Miami.

 

They had a 3-2 lead with Wood and Prior pitching AT HOME against a Florida team that few gave a shot at beating them.

 

And they couldn't pull it off.

 

This was their best shot. They'll have a hard enough time making the playoffs next season.

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Oh it was great seeing those Cubs fans in tears after that last out...

[Guest MikeSC]

Oh it was great seeing those Cubs fans in tears after that last out...

I never thought I'd feel joy seeing that --- but I actually felt pretty good. I was glad to see the Marlins pull it off.

 

Cub fans --- the Marlins KNOW HOW TO WIN CLUTCH GAMES.

 

Chicago, clearly, does not.

-=Mike

[the pinjockey 0]

Over the course of 162 games, bad appearances will be evened out of the equation in the end. So this team is set to make a run at the playoffs for a few years. And to claim that a team can make the playoffs, can't make the world series is just absurd.