This talk about TNA Expansion

[Michrome 0]

I mean, can't we wait for TNA to actually break even on a show, let alone make a profit? If not for Panda, TNA would have been gone ages ago, and one wonders how long Panda is willing to take these losses. Meanwhile, ROH's attendance dwarfs TNA's, they are expanding their base, they have made CM Punk a star, and they consistently put out good overall shows, with the occasional MoTYC. If any fed today is gaining steam, it's Ring Of Honor. Hell, the 11/1 RoH show at Rexplex could come real close to outdrawing TNA's 11/30 show, even with Hogan on it.

 

There was a thread somewhere about a petition in Canada to get TNA, but hell, if I were you I'd be petitioning in Canada (and the Western U.S.) to get RoH shows on TV. Somehow, in the future, I envision a new Big 3, with WWE, TNA, and #3 Ring Of Honor putting on a ten times better product than either of them. By god, it's 1995 all over again!

[Styles 0]

Easy there, tiger. TNA isn't quite ready to compete with WWE, not until they get a national cable deal, which appears to be in the works especially with Hogan likely to garner them a lot of publicity. And, again, Panda is very loyal to TNA, as evidenced by them signing all the talent to 1 year contracts with 2nd year options, so no worries on them bailing. Things are looking up!

Oh, and I think you exagerate ROH's place in the grand scheme of things. They're a popular cult indy but no way are they anywhere near a "Big 3" status. They don't even have pay per view clearence let alone cable; videos aint gonna cut it besides a small fan base of internet fans. And, they don't have any big names that could draw attention, advertisers, TV execs, etc. to them. They might provide the best "pure" wrestling action out there, but they are worlds behind TNA in breakout potential, but they seem content with keeping their promotion a video tape deal. I think I'm done!

[BoboBrazil 0]

ROH attendance doesn't dwarf TNA's. ROH barely gets 500 fans to an event if that and TNA gets 1,000 to 1,500 every week and TNA gets that in the shithole named Nashville. It isn't even in hot wrestling towns like ROH visits. The only time ROH's attendance came close to TNA's is when they had Jeff Hardy on the show and all those horny girls showed up.

[Styles 0]

ROH attendance doesn't dwarf TNA's. ROH barely gets 500 fans to an event if that and TNA gets 1,000 to 1,500 every week and TNA gets that in the shithole named Nashville. It isn't even in hot wrestling towns like ROH visits. The only time ROH's attendance came close to TNA's is when they had Jeff Hardy on the show and all those horny girls showed up.

Yeah, I thought that sounded a little suspect but I didn't say anything because I'm not much of a "stats" guy...

[Michrome 0]

Err, TNA does *not* draw 1,000 to 1,500 fans each week, the shows are *heavily* papered, to a huge extent. For the Jeff Hardy thing, from the accounts of everyone who was there, there is no way that there were hundreds of girls there to see him. The overwhelming majority of the crowd booed the shit out of him. TNA doesn't leave Nashville, RoH is expanding into different places and building a fanbase. In order for TNA to break even weekly, they need 25,000 or so buys. Right now, they are getting what? 10,000? I'm sorry, but in terms of gaining a fanbase on the east coast and actually making money, RoH is far ahead of TNA. RoH is indeed profitable, as all they need to do is sell about 300 or 400 tickets to break even, and then everything else afterwards is profit. Almost everywhere for RoH, the attendance has been getting better. Initial reports are something like 500-700 (depending on the report) for Maryland, a new market, going up against the most watched baseball game in eternity, which surely hurt walkup ticket sales.

 

11/1 is RoH's return to the rexplex, they won't have Jeff Hardy who brought in like 50-100 max, and I bet they will break the 1,000 mark with Dragon-Styles and Ki-Homicide headlining, along with a badass 4-way.

[BoboBrazil 0]

ROH shows are papered too. All that matters is people that show up. 500 people show up to a ROH show that only happens every month or two and 1,000-1,500 people show up to TNA that happens every week. As I said before Nashville is a shithole for wrestling fans too. If TNA went in the same markets as ROH I'd bet they would get alot more fans.

[tommytomlin 0]

If you think Jeff Hardy only brought in 50-100 fans then you're on the same drugs he is. Do you know how big the fat goth chick fanbase he has is? (Insert fatty joke here)

 

And the TNA needs 25,000 buy to break even thing doesn't apply these days. They've significantly reduced their costs by broadcasting from a smaller arena and eliminating the fireworks and stuff. It's closer to 15-20k now.

[Michrome 0]

I guess the test will be on 11/1 with their big return to rexplex, but try watching the show and see if it looks like a bunch of fat chicks in the stands. Also, there are definitely some girl screams when Hardy comes out, but they are quickly overshadowed by MASSIVE booing and some mean-spirited chants that I didn't think were necessary. I don't know how much RoH papers the shows, but they are selling more tickets to their shows than TNA is, and I don't really know how much Rob is bringing in on the videos. You can tell though by the improvements in production, lighting, etc that there has been money pumped into it. The point is that for RoH their shows everywhere have been growing in attendance almost every time. This trend doesn't exist for TNA. Drawing 500 or 600 paid for their first time in Maryland against the Boston-Yankees game is fantastic.

 

Also, it seems like a common myth that RoH is just pure wrestling with no storylines. There are definitely factions, and the CM Punk-Raven feud in RoH has blown away any feud I've seen in ages. Man, if TNA would just let CM Punk talk and give him a decent push, they would draw a bunch of fans just for him.

[BoboBrazil 0]

That is the one thing ROH has over TNA is video sales. TNA's merchandise is horrible. They should be putting out dvds and vhs tapes with about 4 shows each on them and putting them up on the site for sale. That would generate alot of profit for them and give them alot more fans.

[Guest Boomer Sprinklespax]

Michrome, you keep saying that RoH sells more tickets to their events than TNA does. Do you have a credible source to back that up? Because I can hardly believe that's true (not saying it isn't, just saying I'd be amazed if it was).

 

Also, doesn't RoH only run monthly shows for the most part? If so, even if RoH did outdraw TNA's events one-on-one, there's no way they outdraw TNA at the end of the month, because TNA will have run four shows by then to RoH's one.

 

Moving on, you say that RoH is building a larger fanbase by showcasing itself in different towns and whatnot, something TNA hasn't done. I don't really think this is a valid point being that TNA has the PPV deal, immediately giving TNA a huge advantage over RoH in terms of accessibility. Again, I don't really know any of the statistics, so I could concievably be wrong, but I don't see any possible way that RoH is building a fanbase better than TNA; I don't see how that could be possible without some sort of a TV deal.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

If there's going to be a new "Big 3" it'll most likely be WWE, NWA TNA and MLW.

 

MLW already has a tv deal and they have more name talent than RoH.

[Guest TonyJaymzV1]

TNA doesnt paper their shows anymore....my cousin was down in Nashville a month ago, and tried to get tickets...sold out.

 

MLW=ECW

TNA=WCW

WWE=WWF

ROH=Japan

 

there...now its 95 all over again

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

TNA started as a blend of where ECW and WCW were headed, direction-wise. Now? It's mini-WCW. There's something oddly frightening about this.

[2GOLD 0]

Isn't Japan still Japan?

When did the country of Japan fold???

 

I like ROH from what I have seen but I don't see them as ahead of TNA right now cept in merch like someone already stated.

 

Plus ROH is just turning into a WWE training ground it seems. That is never good for business when the WWE can just take your most talented wrestlers away. At least TNA solved this problem.

 

Let ROH be the indy fed they are happy to be right now.

[Michrome 0]

My source for better ticket sales is Meltzer. The shows are still hugely papered, some anecdotal story isn't going to change that. With Hogan coming in, they might sell out though.

 

People seem to forget that there's another key to becoming a big national fed, and that's quality of product. TNA has flashes of a good product, but it's nothing mind-blowing, or even in the same league as an RoH show. The fact that they don't let Punk have a big talking role magnifies how assbackwards the booking has been there.

 

As for the PPV thing, it's my contention that if RoH had that same weekly deal, they'd probably pull in more viewers than TNA. However, I think RF is pulling in a lot of money off of the video thing, and as long as it's that profitable he doesn't want to change it.

 

RoH has a lot over TNA:

* Better feuds

* Way better wrestling

* A championship that means something

 

As far as MLW being the next #3, there's no chance in hell. The product is just nowhere near good enough, it's a piece of shit. I give MLW a year or so before it dies out.

 

Anyways, people keep making the assumption that TNA is the #2 promotion, just because they have the PPV deal. There's no garauntee that Panda isn't going to decide to cut losses (which are huge), at which point TNA will be fucked. I hope this Hogan thing works out, but we're six weeks away now, and outside of the internet I haven't seen one ad for the big show. I hope they have a big advertising plan ready.

[Guest Devin]

Whether you enjoy their product more is not the case, ROH just has nowhere near the exposure that these other companies have. Fact is, TNA has weekly PPV's, and now a syndicated television show. MLW, as well as IWA, also have weekly syndicated shows. Hell, even CZW is accessible to everyone weekly across the internet. ROH sells tapes.

 

You can also argue that IWA:MS is a better wrestling product then any of these companies, and I'd agree with you. That doesn't mean they aren't barely managing to pull in 25 people to a show.

 

ROH can have the greatest product in the world, and it's not going to matter one bit if no one is seeing it. Sure, they're selling a few hundred tapes over the internet, but other then that? Each week I can flip through my t.v. and watch TNA, MLW, and IWA (Puerto Rico), and so can anyway else. Until ROH has something like that, better product or not, you can't compare them.

[Michrome 0]

Of course I can, heh. It's a promotion in its first year that is showing nothing but good signs, with higher attendance and better revenue as the months go on. Eventually, you have to make money, and if that doesn't start for TNA, or any of the others, they are going to disappear. That is the harsh reality of it all.

 

Being on TV really prematurely is hurting the companies you mention more than helping, because many of them are not ready. Hell, WCW was on TV during the dying days, it didn't change the fact that they were losing shitloads of money. The fact that TNA even is resorting to Hogan shows how little momentum the product has gained since the beginning.

[Styles 0]

If you think that CM Punk could draw more people than Hulk Hogan or Sting, you are delusional. TNA is totally on the right path, while ROH is barely on the radar. Sorry, it's the truth.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

The truth about it all is that RoH is a very niche market.

 

I think some people forget that...but it's a fact.

 

Now...it's great for us because it fits our niche perfectly...

[Guest Choken One]

TNA should at least move around a little, try going to a bigger arena in Nashville at least...

[Guest Max Peter David]

For those of you who think Jeff Hardy drew that attendance,

 

He was booed out of the damn building!

 

If they came just to see him, why did this happen?

 

 

Edit: Oh yeah, TNA is in perfect position to gain some major exposure. WWE is in a terrible state, and TNA can easily pull away a number of WWE fans if they advertise Hogan right.

[Guest Choken One]

Just like WCW did...WWF was in HORRIBLE shape and WCW took advantage...

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

"He was booed out of the damn building!"

 

You know...given how bad he was booed...maybe some people DID show up just to let him have it!

[Michrome 0]

See, it's so sad that people actually think that building a promotion around Hulk Hogan and Sting can actually be succesful today. It worked in 97, it's not going to work again. If they don't let guys like CM Punk work their magic, (and he is freaking awesome when given a chance) they will never grow at all. Hogan will probably pop one buyrate, but past that, what else? Hogan has repeatedly been the "one show" draw over the last few years, what makes this any different?

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

1. Sting is not in TNA on any kind of basis to make a claim that they are building around him. ONE APPEARANCE MONTHS AGO. Obviously they want him to appear at the three hour show...but that's HARDLY building around someoen.

 

2. No one expects Hogan to be around come March anyway. They are using him to get the name "TNA" more into the public mind.

 

This idea that they are building aroung guys that hardly if ever appear, OR don't work for the promotion is ridiculous.

[The Thread Killer 0]

This idea that they are building aroung guys that hardly if ever appear, OR don't work for the promotion is ridiculous.

 

Please see my sig for rule #1.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

You can tell that TNA is growing by how far this folder has fallen.

[Michrome 0]

I was actually responding to a post made in this thread. Does that matter?

 

If you think that CM Punk could draw more people than Hulk Hogan or Sting, you are delusional.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

We all agree that Punk is terribly misused, and we all agree that there is always a need to build the future guys up.

 

HOWEVER.

 

What makes TNA's case different is that NO One knows about them yet. Build up young guys that no one knows about...and you have nothing.

 

Put on a 3 hour show where you spend two hours showing off Styles, AMW, Sabin and the like...and you've done something.

[Michrome 0]

I'd like to think that's true, but for example, just throwing guys in an Ultimate X match isn't going to help anyone, it's just going to look like a bunch of spots. If the show is based entirely around Hogan, and it looks like it will be, I don't see how it will accomplish anything.