Highland 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2003 ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- A high school freshman expelled for writing a fictional account of a student who falls asleep in class and dreams of killing a teacher can return to school Monday while officials reconsider the disciplinary action. Rachel Boim, 14, who lived in the Denver area at the time of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, that left 15 dead, was expelled Wednesday from Roswell High School in this Atlanta suburb under the Fulton County School District's "zero tolerance" policy. Rachel said Friday her story was not intended as a threat -- it was strictly a work of fiction -- and her father, David Boim, said he would challenge the decision as a violation of "the right to think and feel." He said he understands the concerns of school administrators about even the most remote possible threats to teachers and other students, but "we also expected common sense to kick in at some point." "A piece of literature is a piece of literature," David Boim said. "The question I asked the administrators the first day is, 'You're going to suspend my daughter because of something she wrote?'" Rachel wrote the story in her personal journal and was showing it to a classmate. Her art teacher noticed, confiscated it and turned it over to school officials the next day. "It was a story about a girl who falls asleep in class, dreams she kills her math teacher, then wakes up and nothing happens," she said. Rachel was suspended her for 10 days for "inappropriate writings that describe the threat of bodily harm toward a school employee," school system spokeswoman Susan Hale told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, and she was expelled after a hearing her father described as a travesty. However, Hale said Friday that acting school superintendent Mike Vanairsdale temporarily rescinded the expulsion and Rachel will be allowed to return to class Monday. Hale said Vanairsdale will review the case and then recommend to the Fulton County Board of Education on whether to reinstate the expulsion. "The interim superintendent, just came into office last night and wants to make sure he has all the facts in the case," Hale said. Rachel said she plans to stay at Roswell High if allowed to. "I have a lot of really good friends that go to Roswell," she said. Yes normally I would consider this fluff, but the larger issue is the violation of this girl's right to free speech and expression, which to me is not fluff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
godthedog 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2003 unless something else has happened recently (somebody feel free to correct me with a court decision), this is how the law is, as i understand it: first amendment rights, strictly speaking, don't apply to school rules and regulations. 10-20 years ago, there was a girl who wanted to publish a story on teen pregnancy for her high school newspaper. IIRC, the principal got involved and vetoed the story (or the girl was punished after the story was published, i can't remember which) because it was deemed inappriopriate, and the girl took the case to the supreme court on the first amendment. the court struck her down. and i really don't see how this fiction story involves the first amendment anyway. she was punished by the school, not by the federal government. the government didn't take away her right to free speech, she just wasn't allowed to make those kinds of statements within the school. big difference. it's not like she was arrested for publishing & selling copies of the story; that would be a first amendment violation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Highland 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2003 That's splitting hairs. Her story was a work of fiction, it was not libelous or slanderous, so those reasons could not come into play. They suspended her because they can get away with it, especially after the Columbine shootings, and the case supreme court should have never vetoed the case mentioned above; they're supposed to uphold the constitution, not undermine it for the convenience of keeping students lockstep and in line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cerebus Report post Posted October 25, 2003 Hey, as responsible adults like to say, " It's all fine and dandy . . . until someone get's hurt". Now if the Columbine Duo had done what this girl had done (writing the "fictional" story ), and then not been investigated, what would the firestorm be. In today's society of uber-lawsuits and such, the lesser of two evils is for now . . . zero tolerance. I think "zero tolerance" laws are silly, and each incident should stand alone, but with groups like the ACLU grabbing hold of an inch of rope and then claiming to be cowboys . . . well, it's pretty fucked up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
godthedog 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2003 no, it's not splitting hairs. your parents can forbid you from saying certain things in their house, but that doesn't mean they're violating your first amendment rights. your boss can reprimand you for saying certain things in the workplace (especially if you tell someone a story about KILLING said boss), but that doesn't mean he's violating your first amendment rights. you can't rationally argue that a story about a kid who fantasizes about killing her teacher is appropriate for school. no one's saying she can't WRITE the story or let others READ the story, she just can't do it AT SCHOOL. six years ago, this girl still would've been punished for doing something like that. if my high school drama department had put on a play about killing our teachers, we would've gotten expelled (or suspended for a long time, at the very least). there have always been standards of what's approrpriate for school, they didn't just spring up after columbine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Salacious Crumb Report post Posted October 25, 2003 Students have limited first amendment rights. School's are allowed to create limitations to run smoothly. Take any government class and ask and you'll be told students have limited free speech. EDIT: This can also fall under using speech responsibly. IE not yelling fire in a crowded theater. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest stardust Report post Posted October 25, 2003 unless something else has happened recently (somebody feel free to correct me with a court decision), this is how the law is, as i understand it: first amendment rights, strictly speaking, don't apply to school rules and regulations. 10-20 years ago, there was a girl who wanted to publish a story on teen pregnancy for her high school newspaper. IIRC, the principal got involved and vetoed the story (or the girl was punished after the story was published, i can't remember which) because it was deemed inappriopriate, and the girl took the case to the supreme court on the first amendment. the court struck her down. The story was actually pulled by the principle the night before the newspaper went to print, if I'm remembering correctly. In high school journalism courses, the case is often simply referred to as Hazlewood. You are correct, though, in what the case was about. And admittedly, the case does apply to First Amendment rights in general in high schools, but is normally applied primarily to school newspapers, which can sometimes lead to very valid criticisms of the school and its administration being pulled from an issue of the newspaper, because hey, principles have the right to do that, and are often under pressure to make sure that nothing but a nice, clean image is given to the school. I still think it's ironic, though, how this girl's article was pulled because it was about teen pregnancy, and yet when I wrote a column my senior year about teen pregnancy (my high school had the distinguished honor of having the highest teen pregnancy rate per capita in the state of Texas) I was praised by administration for it. *shrug* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vyce 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2003 That's splitting hairs. Her story was a work of fiction, it was not libelous or slanderous, so those reasons could not come into play. How do you know it was neither? Have you read the story in question? She says it was fiction, but none of us here know how closely it may have paralleled her own life, school, math teacher, etc. NO ONE has an unlimited, unrestricted right to free speech. The founding fathers didn't intend for there to be one. I don't see the gross violation of her civil liberties here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted October 25, 2003 That's splitting hairs. Her story was a work of fiction, And how, exactly, do we know that she had no intentions of acting this story out? Besides, in my world the imbecille would be thrown out for blatant stupidity (Blasted laws preventing that. Damn them). What kind of total moron writes about killing a teacher and then flaunts it around class? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lightning Flik 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2003 What kind of total moron writes about killing a teacher and then flaunts it around class? The kind that thinks it was a quality made story and it is very well written. Many times writers don't care about the subject or situation that it involves. As long as it is a good story and it is well presented and something they feel very proud about, they don't really mind if it is something that should be presented about with a little caution. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted October 26, 2003 I once got suspended from middle school for writing a short horror/sci-fi story. It was about a psychopath who unleased experimental weapons that killed most of the city. The weapons killed the people but left the bodies intact (they also bled from their eyes, nose, and mouth). It was only about a page long and not very detailed. I had been working on it at home but took it to school to work on it when I had free time. This was before Columbine and I only got a few days "off" school. Needless to say, I never took anything like that to school again (except when I took creative writing). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted October 26, 2003 I once got suspended from middle school for writing a short horror/sci-fi story. It was about a psychopath who unleased experimental weapons that killed most of the city. The weapons killed the people but left the bodies intact (they also bled from their eyes, nose, and mouth). It was only about a page long and not very detailed. I had been working on it at home but took it to school to work on it when I had free time. You fit all of that on one page? Maybe you got suspended for lack of pacing. I've only written one "violent" story for school: The theme was desert islands and mine was 6 pages about a few shipwrescked Irish sailors in the 1680's who find out the Pacific island they landed on was used as the dumping point for vampyres by Portugal and Spain. It was kinda like Escape From NY with vamps. The teacher loved it. Maybe I just had cool English teachers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2003 When I was a freshman in HS (1994), I wrote a six part story about a teenage serial killer who, well, killed his classmates (I was smart enough to not use real names, but the characterizations were there)... I don't remember how I ended it, probably some lame suicide copout ending... but while my teacher commented about the violent nature of this, that was it. Just a comment, and nothing more. Although I did initially have Columbine-esque fantasies towards the dicks of my school back in the day, but I didn't do anything (largely because I'm lazy and I eventually stopped caring) Of course, if I submitted such a story today, I'd end up lobotomized, castrated and sedated, but we know how it is today Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Highland 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2003 And that above all is the point. People are scared shitless to express their opinions and ideas for fear of being ostracised. And it's extended past the school or the workplace, now nothing can be said lest it offend someone. Take this for example: If you're a white and you critisize affirmative action, or say it works against you, you can be called a racist. I don't call that racist, if he dropped the N-bomb then yes, he is, but he shouldn't be condemned for speaking a fact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted October 26, 2003 You fit all of that on one page? Maybe you got suspended for lack of pacing. I THINK it was one page (I might have written on the back). I don't really remember that much about it. After the incident I tried my best to just forget about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2003 That's splitting hairs. Her story was a work of fiction, it was not libelous or slanderous, so those reasons could not come into play. So if I make a story where I go stalk people I find on an internet wrestling board and then brutally murder them, it's not threatening? You won't make a peep? That story would be suspendable in school even before Columbine. It's an indirect threat. Along with reading and writing, school is supposed to teach you social behavior, and it is of poor social behavior. And thus the assumed reaction was made. No one took her rights away. She wrote what she wrote and she took the heat from it. It's called "being responsible for what you have done." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2003 And that above all is the point. People are scared shitless to express their opinions and ideas for fear of being ostracised. And it's extended past the school or the workplace, now nothing can be said lest it offend someone. Take this for example: If you're a white and you critisize affirmative action, or say it works against you, you can be called a racist. I don't call that racist, if he dropped the N-bomb then yes, he is, but he shouldn't be condemned for speaking a fact. Oh god...they had a booth at school set up for the "National Society of Black Engineers" I was resisting walking up and going "Now how big of a racist would I be if I started the National Society of White Engineers?" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2003 Oh god...they had a booth at school set up for the "National Society of Black Engineers"... Planning on how to build a more efficient crack pipe, no doubt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2003 Oh god...they had a booth at school set up for the "National Society of Black Engineers"... Planning on how to build a more efficient crack pipe, no doubt Oh now that was just wrong man...come on.......just as many white smoke crack. The point I'm trying to make is they can have that set up and get there special grants for it but if I tried to start a "White Club" then I'd get my ass handed to me and called a racist till the day I died. It's not fair. It really isn't. Minorities claim they want equality but then they go and do shit like that....that doesn't create equality...it just further segregates us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2003 (edited) Oh god...they had a booth at school set up for the "National Society of Black Engineers"... Planning on how to build a more efficient crack pipe, no doubt Oh now that was just wrong man...come on.......just as many white smoke crack. Booo -- I found it funny. Actually, a more useful device to construct would be this mechanism that would accurately make sure a gangsta pours out the right amount of malt liquor from his 40 oz. when he dedicates a getting-sh*t-faced-session to all his fallen homiez -- yo yo yo. And you should have made your "white engineer" crack. It's great fun offending stupid people. A summer or two ago I went with my better half and her niece that was visiting us to the Cincinnati museum. There was this promotion pimping an upcoming exhibit on the recent riots (I mean, "civil disobedience," according to the New York Times). In this promotion there was this donation center that wanted to show the usual crap (diversity/unity) by having people donate money. With every donation you got some stupid unity pin. Funny thing was you got a specific pin depending on your skin color -- whites got a white pin, blacks got a black pin, etc. Well, I made a little scene pointing out this lunacy and got a few mean looks. Like I said -- great fun. Aside from my creative writing piece on my one teacher, the only other time I ever incorporated a real-life person into a school assignment was (another creative writing project) when I had this beast-woman lusting after me and I wrote a short story about some guy that was trapped in a tower with this she-hulk that wanted to breed. I read it out loud in class, although the only person to get the joke was my one friend who had told me that Mrs. Ogre had a thing for me... Edited October 26, 2003 by kkktookmybabyaway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2003 Ok...who on here is black? And who on here thinks these organizations are discriminatory? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2003 Why do you just want to hear from African-Americans, and what's wrong with my people responding to your question? This thread is discriminatory and I'm offended... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2003 Why do you just want to hear from African-Americans, and what's wrong with my people responding to your question? This thread is discriminatory and I'm offended... *hits over head with stick* Enough out of you..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Firestarter 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2003 Oh god...they had a booth at school set up for the "National Society of Black Engineers"... Planning on how to build a more efficient crack pipe, no doubt Oh now that was just wrong man...come on.......just as many white smoke crack. No, white people use powder cocaine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Agent of Oblivion Report post Posted October 26, 2003 That shit's expensive. Most of the hillbilles around here rock it up into crack, or else go even lower and do a bunch of bathtub crank. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lando Griffin 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2003 In 6th grade, my teacher gave us an assignment to write a horror story. Mine was pretty much a ripoff of Friday the 13th, except that Jason (or in this case, "The Butcher") won in the end. I think I still have that thing laying around somewhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2003 Okay, I'll be equal opportunity offensive here A "Society of White Engineers" would try to build one of the following: - Magic dancing shoes ("Never embarass yourself on the dancefloor again") - Magic basketball shoes ("Now we really can be like Mike") - Efficient coke snorting mechanism ("Tired of losing cocaine in your cheap plastic straw? Try the Snortinator") This thread is discriminatory and I'm offended... <starts a rally with KKK to boycott whatever the hell BananaramaDamaru produces> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2003 Okay, I'll be equal opportunity offensive here A "Society of White Engineers" would try to build one of the following: - Magic dancing shoes ("Never embarass yourself on the dancefloor again") - Magic basketball shoes ("Now we really can be like Mike") - Efficient coke snorting mechanism ("Tired of losing cocaine in your cheap plastic straw? Try the Snortinator") This thread is discriminatory and I'm offended... <starts a rally with KKK to boycott whatever the hell BananaramaDamaru produces> Who's BananramaDamaru? His names pretty close to mine....I'm sueing for copyright infringement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Sagrada3099 Report post Posted October 26, 2003 Please be quiet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slayer 0 Report post Posted October 26, 2003 Okay, I'll be equal opportunity offensive here A "Society of White Engineers" would try to build one of the following: - Magic dancing shoes ("Never embarass yourself on the dancefloor again") - Magic basketball shoes ("Now we really can be like Mike") - Efficient coke snorting mechanism ("Tired of losing cocaine in your cheap plastic straw? Try the Snortinator") This thread is discriminatory and I'm offended... <starts a rally with KKK to boycott whatever the hell BananaramaDamaru produces> Who's BananramaDamaru? His names pretty close to mine....I'm sueing for copyright infringement. Silence, Damaramashamalamadingdong... ...Damaramachingchangwallawallabingbang... ...DamaramaJoeyJoJoShabadoo... Whatever the fuck your name is, we're boycotting Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
