Guest Stevie Franchise Report post Posted November 9, 2003 I don't think it is a monopoly, but I do think, ROH has some sort of pull as when all the other indies book their shows. When ROH has a show booked, there are no other indies book except maybe 3PW, or a promotion that doesn't use ROH wrestlers. On the next CZW, they have to go head to head with PWG. Then on CZW's biggest show of the year, they go head to head with PWG and JAPW. It seems that other indies avoid booking on the same date as ROH, because if they wanted someone like Styles, Daniels, Joe, Homicide ect. They couldn't get them, because their first priority is Ring Of Honor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nevermortal 0 Report post Posted November 9, 2003 The talents may get preferential treatment when it comes to US indy dates, but almost all of them who get booked in Japan will always take the Japan date over the ROH date (and really, who wouldn't?). But then again, the cancellations aren't always bad as Dragon-London's 2/3 falls match came from Low Ki cancelling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PsychoDriver 0 Report post Posted November 9, 2003 As I said on the CZWBoard: Appears that way. ROH seems to have first dibs on alot of talent and every other company that uses common talent (on either coast) always books around ROH's shows. So it seems most ROH wrestlers view ROH bookings as a their main US priority and everything else is secondary Which leads to these big indy days like Nov. 15th and Dec. 13 that each have multi big promotions running using select ROH regulars. It really does appear that ROH is taking over... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jay Z. Hollywood Report post Posted November 9, 2003 ROH definitely has "pull" in certain situations. When shows go head to head, because ROH draws the best and also pay the best, of course the workers they utilize are going to choose the over other places they work. The few exceptions to that rule are Homicide and Trent Acid, who have first loyalty to JAPW and CZW, respectively. The thing is though, is that the wrestlers themselves are taken into consideration. They want to work and get paid as often as possible, so ROH often coordinates with Zandig, Bill Behrens, Fat Frank et al in order to maximize the bookings for their guys and avoid ugly interpromotional conflicts. It's not a "monopoly" by any means- rather an unspoken agreement between the promoters. About PWG- they're on the other side of the country, so with the exception of the fews guys who work everywhere (the Homicides, AJs, Danielses) when they run has absolutely zero impact on the East Coast. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Stevie Franchise Report post Posted November 9, 2003 PWG is still competition no matter where they are. Say if PWG wanted to get AJ Styles for a show, but CZW already had him for that night. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jay Z. Hollywood Report post Posted November 9, 2003 PWG is still competition no matter where they are. Say if PWG wanted to get AJ Styles for a show, but CZW already had him for that night. That's no different than any other promotion in the US. If PWG/CZW etc. wanted to book AJ Styles, but some fed like CAPW had him booked first, and AJ wants to honor that commitment, too bad for them. It's up to the worker, not the fed. I mean, it's not just ROH- everybody's competing with everybody to get the best available talent locked up first. ROH, through providing a) excellent marketing/exposure and b) excellent pay has just established itself as having a natural advantage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Stevie Franchise Report post Posted November 9, 2003 PWG is still competition no matter where they are. Say if PWG wanted to get AJ Styles for a show, but CZW already had him for that night. That's no different than any other promotion in the US. If PWG/CZW etc. wanted to book AJ Styles, but some fed like CAPW had him booked first, and AJ wants to honor that commitment, too bad for them. It's up to the worker, not the fed. Yes it's different, because PWG and CZW are big time indies, and PWG can't book B-Boy for the next two shows, because his prime comittment is CZW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Stevie Franchise Report post Posted November 9, 2003 Homicide and Trent Acid, who have first loyalty to JAPW and CZW, respectively. When was the last you saw Homicide miss an ROH show to go to a JAPW show? ROH is Homicide's #1 promotion has always has been, except when ROH didn't exist. Acid is only choosing CZW to be loyal to his boss John Zandig, if it were Acid's choice he would choose ROH. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PsychoDriver 0 Report post Posted November 9, 2003 The point of this thread. I'm guessing is that most of the top indy workers in the US have ROH as their top Indy commitment. Which leads to other companies having to work around them which could seen as some form of a monopoly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustJoe2k5 0 Report post Posted November 9, 2003 But, the top talent having Ring of Honor as their top priority is not the promotion's fault, so they are not like Vince McMahon buying out competition and crap. The talent probably choose Ring of Honor because of the payoff, crowd, and exposure through videos. As long as Ring of Honor doesn't try to sign any talent to exclusive contracts they will never have a monopoly on the independent scene. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dids Report post Posted November 9, 2003 The point of this thread. I'm guessing is that most of the top indy workers in the US have ROH as their top Indy commitment. Which leads to other companies having to work around them which could seen as some form of a monopoly. No, it couldn't. The person that started this thread doesn't really understand what a "monoploy" is. Main Entry: mo·nop·o·ly Pronunciation: m&-'nä-p(&-)lE Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural -lies Etymology: Latin monopolium, from Greek monopOlion, from mon- + pOlein to sell Date: 1534 1 : exclusive ownership through legal privilege, command of supply, or concerted action 2 : exclusive possession or control 3 : a commodity controlled by one party Nothing about ROH is exclusive, nobody working for ROH is barred from working with other promotions. They just have to work around their bookings, which as much as I understand- is how any indie fed has to work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nevermortal 0 Report post Posted November 9, 2003 Has Homicide ever missed a ROH show? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tpww7 0 Report post Posted November 9, 2003 Unscripted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted November 9, 2003 I don't think it is a monopoly, but I do think, ROH has some sort of pull as when all the other indies book their shows. When ROH has a show booked, there are no other indies book except maybe 3PW, or a promotion that doesn't use ROH wrestlers. On the next CZW, they have to go head to head with PWG. Then on CZW's biggest show of the year, they go head to head with PWG and JAPW. It seems that other indies avoid booking on the same date as ROH, because if they wanted someone like Styles, Daniels, Joe, Homicide ect. They couldn't get them, because their first priority is Ring Of Honor. I wholeheartedly agree. I wouldnt say a monopoly, but I think its getting very unfair coverage. They have agreements with Internet sites (1W, for example) that gets them extra coverage, yet CZW is still struggling with gaining sufficient web coverage. ROHs able to bring in big-names after a year in existence that promotions like CZW, IWA-MS, etc. aren't able to lure after 5 or even more years. The coverage they get on the Internet is IMMENSE, compared to other indy's which I don't think is fair. I was talking to Zandig (of CZW) one time on the phone and he said something like: "What sucks is that Rob and Gabe are getting this damn exposure on AMC, in local newspapers, on 1bob, and even in Japan after being around for a little more than a year (I had this convo a few days after the Jeff Hardy ROH failure match), yet were (CZW) nearing 5 years and the most publicity weve got is some bullshit feature on AMW and another local newscast, along with some BJPW stuff years ago." I think that says it best. That's not to say I hold Rob and Gabe accountable. If they can get publicity, then kudos to them b/c they're getting publicity for the rest of indy wrestling, too, but it is kinda unfair. Regarding the big-name issue...Granted, CZW's had the chance to get big names before, but not many times. The only time was with Funk and yes, they did fuck themselves there by failing to pay him like they had agreed to, but who else has given CZW a chance. Corino made up an excuse. Heyman didn't call back (I wouldnt expect them to). Mikey and Balls no-showed after 1 appearance. Dreamer was the only guy that followed through. Meanwhile, ROH has had Abby, Corny, Jeff, Lynn, Cred, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OSIcon Report post Posted November 9, 2003 This is all just stating the obvious. It has nothing to do with fairness. WWE has more coverage on the internet and everyelse then any other wrestling promotion in the US. This is to be expected because they are the biggest promotion. Likewise, ROH is the biggest indy promotion in the US right now. Thus, they get more coverage and more exposure. It is just how the things work. Pepsi and Coke are going to get more exposure than any other brand of soda because they are the biggest and have the resources to get that coverage. Every industry is like that. ROH has a business has grown to the point where they get these advantages. Zandig can complain about not having the same advnatages, but there is a reason he doesn't have them. You guys act as if this stuff just fell into Feinstein's hands. Like one day he opened up a promotion without being known at all and websites, TV stations, ect. all clamored to give him exposure. Instead it is more along the lines of he had connections before starting the promotion (RF Video already had a link with 1wrestling). Then through putting out a strong product, the word of their promotion got out more. People checked it out, liked it, and turned more people onto it. Websites pick up on the fact that ROH is a very popular indy and they start covering it more. A TV station then picks up on it from the exposure it already has and it gets a story there. Wrestlers see how it is the "hot" fed and want to join. It is called good business. It is not a fairness issue at all. I strongly believe that Zandig or anyong else could get the same exposure with the right business moves. You just can't expect them to come to you because you have been open for 5 years. You need to have the smarts and connections to make things happen. It is also about marketing your product and having a good proudct to market. CZW could have the best product in the world, but they need to know hot to market themselves to they get the website, tv, and newspaper coverage. Word of mouth that the the product is "good" only gets you so far. Ask IWA-MS.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rob Naylor Report post Posted November 9, 2003 Agree with OSIcon.....almost completely actually. Some added notes on John Zandig.....He is a nice guy who I've spoken with as well on occassion. I think his biggest character flaw in life is being rather abrasive and putting the world against him the way Ian Rotten does. They each saw ECW as an "Alternative" company that rose against established wrestling groups and for a short time made it. However, Zandig fails to realize all the important business connections and networking that was done by ECW. Making friends with media outlets, sending tapes to Meltzer for review, going on radio shows and comping hosts (like they did with me in 99!!!) at the shows to write reviews for newspapers and use as topics on radio....establishing a GOOD relationship with websites...THESE are all needed for a small company to survive. For all the heat RF gets, he certainly seems to have lots of friends through networking and maintains the relationships with the different businesses and companies he works with...with exceptions like Ian and XPW to an extent. Hell, the guy even sat down with Meanie and Jasmine over the weekend to patch things up. Any company that takes a "Fuck Meltzer" (which Zandig once told me when I mentioned I was going to send Dave a review years ago) and we don't need their help attitude is not long for this business. Monopoly.....???No way. They had every group and their brother running against them for over a year (even having Kleinrock calling guys on the ROH shows asking them to jump to the show down the street at times!!!)...once they became established and crowds were consistent or going higher, other groups smartly decided to book around them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist Report post Posted November 9, 2003 . Heyman didn't call back (I wouldnt expect them to). If that was the "10 years of Viking Hall" Show, then Heyman no-showed because CZW called him up at the last minute, and Paul was already working a house show on the other side of the country. The least Zandig could have done was give him a little notice Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeJohnson Report post Posted November 10, 2003 Dear Barber, Once again, you are INCORRECT SIR. There is no agreement between ROH and 1Wrestling.com for coverage. Here is a secret way for any independent promotion to get coverage on 1Wrestling.com- CREATE A RELATIONSHIP. When I attend a show, or someone else from the site does, I write a review. When we receive press releases or information, they are either run on the site or incorporated into columns. When a promotion has something newsworthy going on, they will get a story on the Newsline. Within the last 2 weeks, I have written newslines and reviews on ROH, JAPW, CZW, and River City Wrestling in Texas. We had two detailed reports on the IWA Mid-South shows this weekend. I've covered USA Pro, ICW, QWA, MLW and lord knows how many other promotions in the past as well. That's not even taking into account the coverage Jess McGrath does on the independent circuit. Do you look at only what you want to see or what? We have done more live Play by plays on 1Wrestling.com for CZW than we ever ever have for ROH. We've done play by plays for Pro Wrestling Iron, ECWA, and numerous other promotions. I was doing live PBPs at CZW way back in 2001 when they were running Champs in Sewell, NJ, which was way before they planned on running at the ECW Arena. They aren't struggling to get coverage from us. They've always had it, dating back from the first time someone in the company invited us to come check them out. Even before that, I heavily covered their planned PPV with Onita in 1999, so unless you know your history, don't create opinions that don't jibe with the factual situations. The more 1Wrestling.com covers, the more content we have for the site, and the more content we have, the larger our return readership is. I don't see how hard it is to figure that one out but for some reason, with you, it is. In the future, PLEASE Don't talk out of your ass when you don't know the facts, because if you do and you speak incorrectly about anything I am remotely involved in, I will make sure to set you straight. Mike Johnson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeJohnson Report post Posted November 10, 2003 In regard to the 10 Years show, Zandig didn't bother to try and get anyone to show up until a few days before the show. Dreamer was booked and busy. Tod Gordon turned him down. Heyman didn't return the call. CZW didn't try to get anyone until the last second. The day of the show, I gave CZW information to call two former ECW champions who would have been happy to show up and do something if CZW wanted to bring them in, but CZW never bothered to make the call. Feel free to ask Eric Gargiulo if you want someone to confirm that. Don't blame people for what is and has always been CZW's biggest flaw, it's lack of organization. Until CZW gets that right, they aren't going anywhere, and as a fan of their promotion, I have no problem realizing that. Mike Johnson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Youth N Asia 0 Report post Posted November 10, 2003 I think people would go there before other places...but with indies there's nothing close to a monopoly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted November 10, 2003 You guys had some type of deal going with the Lance Storm-RF shoot awhile back. I did not mean to say that you currently have a relationship, b/c I'm pretty sure that you don't, but at a time, there were some light agreements, and not too long ago, either. Zandig mentioned that you guys have a relationship of some sort with ROH. "The more 1Wrestling.com covers, the more content we have for the site, and the more content we have, the larger our return readership is. I don't see how hard it is to figure that one out but for some reason, with you, it is." Ummm...I have no trouble figuring that you...and I didn't need you to fill me in on it, considering that that's nothing more than common sense. "When I attend a show, or someone else from the site does, I write a review. When we receive press releases or information, they are either run on the site or incorporated into columns. When a promotion has something newsworthy going on, they will get a story on the Newsline. Within the last 2 weeks, I have written newslines and reviews on ROH, JAPW, CZW, and River City Wrestling in Texas. We had two detailed reports on the IWA Mid-South shows this weekend. I've covered USA Pro, ICW, QWA, MLW and lord knows how many other promotions in the past as well. That's not even taking into account the coverage Jess McGrath does on the independent circuit." DERRR...More common sense. Again, stop spewing this basic logic. This board has it's reputation as one of the most intelligent boards on the net for a reason. "Don't blame people for what is and has always been CZW's biggest flaw, it's lack of organization." I took the info about Corino/Tanaka from Magee's column. If he portrayed the situation inaccurately, that's his fault, not mine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tim Cooke 0 Report post Posted November 10, 2003 "This board has it's reputation as one of the most intelligent boards on the net for a reason." Quote of the year! By the way, there is no such things as Lucharesu either. But that is for another time. Tim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jay Z. Hollywood Report post Posted November 10, 2003 "This board has it's reputation as one of the most intelligent boards on the net for a reason." Quote of the year! Quite possibly the one and only thing Cooke and I agree on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeJohnson Report post Posted November 10, 2003 (edited) Allow me to elaborate on my earlier post, there has never been, there is not, nor will there ever be any relationship between ROH and 1Wrestling.com for coverage. We cover them, good and bad, the way we do anyone else. You implied otherwise. Whether we use RF Video shoot video stuff for our premium section has nothing to do with their coverage, period. Hope I made myself clear and I hope you won't innaccurately comment again. As far as Corino/Tanaka, I have no idea what you are referring to as I didn't name them and I was responding to someone else's post. "This board has it's reputation as one of the most intelligent boards on the net for a reason." Then don't sully it's rep with your ill-advised comments when you don't know what you are talking about. Mike Johnson Edited November 10, 2003 by MikeJohnson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nevermortal 0 Report post Posted November 10, 2003 "This board has it's reputation as one of the most intelligent boards on the net for a reason." Quote of the year! Quite possibly the one and only thing Cooke and I agree on. What, you don't believe him? Just ask Sylvain Grenier or Prince Paul! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dames 0 Report post Posted November 10, 2003 "This board has it's reputation as one of the most intelligent boards on the net for a reason." Quote of the year! Quite possibly the one and only thing Cooke and I agree on. Shit, even I can't deny it. It's not like I can give a quiz to the stupids that sign up here...just deal with them accordingly. Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrRant 0 Report post Posted November 10, 2003 You could if you really wanted too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted November 10, 2003 (edited) ...there has never been, there is not, nor will there ever be any relationship between ROH and 1Wrestling.com for coverage. You implied otherwise. Whether we use RF Video shoot video stuff for our premium section has nothing to do with their coverage, period. The fact that you did use "RF Video shoot video stuff for [your] premuim section" does in fact have something to do with your coverage of ROH. Granted, it does have little to do, but the former existence of such an agreement can not be said about CZW. Therefore, ROH DID in fact have SOME type of advantage when it comes to coverage on your site that CZW did not have. You did not offer CZW video "stuff" in your premium section, when in fact you did with RF Video "stuff" - "stuff" which gained RF Video (and therefore ROH) promotion (however small or large it may be, and before you continue badgering me, let me add that likely, I'd tend to lean toward smaller rather than larger [but it was existent, nonetheless]). Allow me to elaborate on my earlier post Although its no secret that Im not too fond of you, I'm alright with having you "elaborate on [your] earlier post." Nonetheless, you "[elaborated]" a bit too late since your choice of diction remains unalterable, which allowed me to quote much of what you said. As far as Corino/Tanaka, I have no idea what you are referring to as I didn't name them and I was responding to someone else's post. I believe Magee cited those 2 as being who you tried to hook CZW up w/ for the 5/10 show. Whether or not they are in fact the 2, I dont know, but my reference to them was still warranted, since Magee is generally considered a reliable source, and therefore if they weren't the 2, it'd be through no fault of mine. ...and I think I speak for a lot when I say...Dames, where's the TNA diatribe?! It's Sunday night?! Finish the beers and get going, lol! Edited November 10, 2003 by LucharesuFan619 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michrome 0 Report post Posted November 10, 2003 Maybe CZW should try improving their product to help their bottom line. Gosh, what a revolutionary idea! From my experience in life, I've observed that "monopoly!" is crybaby for "someone else is better than I am and it's not fair." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LucharesuFan619 0 Report post Posted November 10, 2003 I may be wrong, but I don't think ACid has worked JAPW for awhile, and if he has it was only one and two time deals. The only time he worked regularly was last century, as wierd as that may seem (like 97-99, maybe some of 00)...but there's no doubt that he wouldn't be where he is without JAPW's owner, Frank Iadevia (sp?), since he was booking Acid when nobody else gave hiim the time of day, back when he was still in friggin' high school. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
