Bruiser Chong 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2003 That's pretty dumb to dump Redman because of Burnett. After all the time he's been off, I wouldn't expect a whole lot out of him this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2003 I don't get it. Oakland has the big 3, Rich Harden, and Justin Duchscherer. I wouldn't have thought they needed another starter. Still, they didn't give up much, so bravo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the max 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2003 Apparently Newsday is saying: If/when A-Rod comes to Boston, Nomar goes to the White Sox for Magglio Ordonez. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2003 Apparently Newsday is saying: If/when A-Rod comes to Boston, Nomar goes to the White Sox for Magglio Ordonez. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't even imagine how much Theo would be idolized in Boston if he pulled that off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted December 17, 2003 ESPN article As a White Sox fan I'm not sure how to feel about this. On one hand they have absolutly no chance of resigning Nomah after this year, which would probably mean they finally accept my "Cut Or Trade All Current Sox Players" proposal. On the other hand, the one guy I wanted to keep was Mags. Hmmmmm. One thing for sure is that Theo would immediatly become Da Jesus in Boston if this happens. A-Rod and Mags for Nomah and Manny is a hell of a move. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted December 17, 2003 Ordenez AND A-Rod and Foulke and Schilling? Is it too early to rename Fenway Park to Epstein Park? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Ghost of bps21 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2003 hmm... They sure do seem to want to test that curse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted December 17, 2003 (edited) rumor has it that Williamson is added to the Nomar-Ordonez trade. seems like the Sox won't keep Nomar, send him to the Dodgers for Mota, Perez, etc. Edited December 17, 2003 by Smell the ratings!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bored 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2003 I don't get it. Oakland has the big 3, Rich Harden, and Justin Duchscherer. I wouldn't have thought they needed another starter. Still, they didn't give up much, so bravo. Well like I said Beane might just turn around trade him too or they might trade Duchscherer. If they do hang on to Redman my theory is that Beane is finding it impossible to find affordable ways to improve their offense, plus they still have spend some money to sign a closer, so figures it never hurts to have as much pitching as possible especially when their offense on paper looks so bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2003 Maybe he figures its easier to find offense than pitching. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Winter Of My Discontent Report post Posted December 17, 2003 I wonder if Boston remembers when the Mets stacked their team a few years back. Just a thought. I'll still say that the A's will finish better than the Red Sox. I don't necessarily think that Curt Schlling will make that great of a difference. Foulke will make their bullpen even more dominant - I'll give them that. But why didn't they pick up Todd Walker? The guy pretty much got them to where they were in the playoffs. He was fucking clutch. The Yankees have lost Pettite and Clemmons - two great pitchers. They replaced them with Vasquez and Brown. I think the former are better than the latter. They need to sign another pitcher to even things out with the Red Sox and A's starting rotation. Maybe Greg Maddox? I'd jump all over the guy. Why? Because he isn't about strength and other intangibles that can diminish with age. He is about precision and strategy. He can still get that back, especially by pitching with Kevin Brown and Mussina - two of the better pitchers of the 90's. I'd certainly bring Maddox in as a #3! pitcher over Boomer Wells. They NEED another pitcher, there's no question about it. And besides, even if Maddox doesn't do well in the season, he's be a great addition to the bullpen for the post-season. In closing let me say that all of this Red Sox activity is just going to enhance the disappointment of losing continously to the Yankees. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cartman 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2003 As has been said before Maddux won't be going to the AL. Also, when the Mets stacked their team it wasn't with the best player in baseball and a really good outfielder, and a dominant starter, and a lights-out closer... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HarleyQuinn 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2003 But why didn't they pick up Todd Walker? The guy pretty much got them to where they were in the playoffs. He was fucking clutch. Todd had a pretty poor .333 OBP and also wasn't that great defensively. Originally the Sox wanted to go after Graffanino for his defense(A full range factor(better assesment of how many put outs/assists a player has per 9 innings or 1 game) point better then Walker's). I like the pickup of Bellhorn as he's a solid fielder(Almost as good as Graffanino) and has a career .345 OBP despite the K's and poor BA. If he returns to his 2002 form, he could be pretty potent offensively(27 HR's, .512 SLG) but he'll likely serve as a platoon to whomever our starting 2B turns out to be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Winter Of My Discontent Report post Posted December 17, 2003 As has been said before Maddux won't be going to the AL. Also, when the Mets stacked their team it wasn't with the best player in baseball and a really good outfielder, and a dominant starter, and a lights-out closer... Very true. But Schilling isn't dominant. A-Rod hasn't signed yet. Besides, I dig A-Rod, but unitl he proves that he can be a proven winner, a true leader, and remarkably clutch offensively and defensively like Derek Jeter - I'll take the Yankees shortstop. His post-season experience simply makes him more valuable than A-Rod right now. In the regular season? Rodriguez is the better man. But in the post-season, Jeter just makes the Yankees a better team - he brings them up to a totally different level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HarleyQuinn 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2003 Has A-Rod even made the playoffs yet? With Seattle they never managed to get in until after he left correct? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HarleyQuinn 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2003 But Schilling isn't dominant. He may not be dominant during the season but he has gone 8-2 in the postseason(combining regular series(Division & Championship) with the World Series) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYU 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2003 Also, when the Mets stacked their team it wasn't with the best player in baseball and a really good outfielder, and a dominant starter, and a lights-out closer... But what about Armando Benitez? He was.....wait, nevermind. He sucked. And for those that said the Yankees should try to get Maddux.....why? Look at the rotation. Mike Mussina, Kevin Brown, Javier Vazquez, David Wells, and Jose Contreras. Yep, Contreras. Wait....some of you aren't comfortable with him as a starter? You'd rather have Maddux take his spot? Let me get this straight. You want to put someone who has a 4-year, 32-million contract....being paid about 8 million per year....to be put in middle relief?! Be realistic. He is being paid WAY WAY too much money to pitch 1 or 2 innings, if that, in a game. And I'm not a Yankee fan, but it's not like Contreras is THAT bad or anything. As for David Wells, most likely, he will turn out to be a pretty reliable pitcher like he was last year, if for one more season. Taking on Maddux's salary is ridiculous for someone like Wells, who may wind up working out anyway.. The Yankees have one of the strongest rotations in baseball. When Contreras (or Wells) is your #5 starter, it's time to realize that the starting rotation doesn't need much tweaking. Drop the inane argument about Maddux. He is TOTALLY unnecessary to the team....unless Steinbrenner wants his ego fucked again by signing yet another All-Star. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2003 But Schilling isn't dominant. How so? His K rate has been in the top 3 in his league the last three years. Besides, I dig A-Rod, but unitl he proves that he can be a proven winner, a true leader, and remarkably clutch offensively and defensively like Derek Jeter - I'll take the Yankees shortstop. His post-season experience simply makes him more valuable than A-Rod right now. In the regular season? Rodriguez is the better man. But in the post-season, Jeter just makes the Yankees a better team - he brings them up to a totally different level. Ah the old clutch argument. Let me just say that A-Rod has a .340 career playoff batting average, along with a .566 career slugging percentage. And for HarleyQuinn, he was in three postseasons with Seattle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2003 And for those that said the Yankees should try to get Maddux.....why? Look at the rotation. Mike Mussina, Kevin Brown, Javier Vazquez, David Wells, and Jose Contreras. Yep, Contreras. Wait....some of you aren't comfortable with him as a starter? You'd rather have Maddux take his spot? Let me get this straight. You want to put someone who has a 4-year, 32-million contract....being paid about 8 million per year....to be put in middle relief?! Be realistic. He is being paid WAY WAY too much money to pitch 1 or 2 innings, if that, in a game. And I'm not a Yankee fan, but it's not like Contreras is THAT bad or anything. As for David Wells, most likely, he will turn out to be a pretty reliable pitcher like he was last year, if for one more season. Taking on Maddux's salary is ridiculous for someone like Wells, who may wind up working out anyway. Contreras should be a starter, but not because of the money. If a team is playing a guy solely because of his paycheck, then its a lost cause. And by that logic, Mark Henry should be WWE champion. I'd point instead to his 72 Ks in 71 innings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYU 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2003 And for those that said the Yankees should try to get Maddux.....why? Look at the rotation. Mike Mussina, Kevin Brown, Javier Vazquez, David Wells, and Jose Contreras. Yep, Contreras. Wait....some of you aren't comfortable with him as a starter? You'd rather have Maddux take his spot? Let me get this straight. You want to put someone who has a 4-year, 32-million contract....being paid about 8 million per year....to be put in middle relief?! Be realistic. He is being paid WAY WAY too much money to pitch 1 or 2 innings, if that, in a game. And I'm not a Yankee fan, but it's not like Contreras is THAT bad or anything. As for David Wells, most likely, he will turn out to be a pretty reliable pitcher like he was last year, if for one more season. Taking on Maddux's salary is ridiculous for someone like Wells, who may wind up working out anyway. Contreras should be a starter, but not because of the money. If a team is playing a guy solely because of his paycheck, then its a lost cause. And by that logic, Mark Henry should be WWE champion. I'd point instead to his 72 Ks in 71 innings. Well, that's not exactly the same thing. For Mark Henry to be the World Champion, the Raw brand would mainly revolve around him and the title he holds. This isn't the case with Contreras. I'm not expecting the team to base their entire rotation around him, making him the #1 starter and ordering everyone else to fall in. But the fact is: He IS getting paid $8 million this year, and the Yankees should be getting their money's worth. WWE has done the same thing with Mark Henry and the Big Show: They realize that they are not very good athletes, but they still do their best to find suitable roles on the shows for them. They're getting paid all this money to wrestle, and that's what they will do. Contreras is getting paid all this money to be someone that can pitch for 5,6,7 innings. Not come in for an inning of relief and then leave. Cost should definitely not be the deciding factor of what role a player should have. But it should DEFINITELY have a say. Contreras's $8 million salary is just too much to bypass, and send him down to relief. Besides, like I said, he's not even that bad of a pitcher. Certainly more than enough for a #5 starter spot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfaJack 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2003 Cost should definitely not be the deciding factor of what role a player should have. But it should DEFINITELY have a say. Contreras's $8 million salary is just too much to bypass, and send him down to relief. Oh? Billy Wagner gets paid $8 million a year to pitch approximately 75-80 innings. Would you say that the Astros in the past (and the Phillies now) don't get their money's worth from him?? Mariano Rivera is handsomely paid (Yanks fans, help me out with an exact figure), as are Keith Foulke, LaTroy Hawkins, and many others. They aren't worth the money they get paid? Saying that Contreras should start because he makes a lot of money is ridiculous. If he is a better pitcher as a starter, then start him. If helps the team more out of the bullpen, put him in the bullpen. Simple as that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYU 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 The difference is those other pitchers were paid with those intentions in mind. Wagner was paid $8 million with his role in mind. Mariano, Foulke, etc....they were paid to be closers and relief pitchers. Contreras was paid to be a STARTING pitcher. But because he hasn't amazed in his first season, he's going to be pushed down the roster into middle relief? Christ, a $32 million reliever who was SUPPOSED to be a starter? If he was made $8 million to be a closer, that'd be a different story. But he was paid to be a starting pitcher, and now the Yankees will have no problem making a $32 million dollar mistake, and getting Maddux in as well. To me, that's just ridiculous. Teams should not be able to make $32 million dollar mistakes. You have to give him TIME to determine if he's a good starter. You work with him, try to mold him, do something to help him improve. But what they're trying to do is now bring in an All-Star and pay a ridiculous amount of money to a pitcher that didn't work out as a starter, so he was pushed back to pitching an inning a game, when he was signed to pitch 6 or 7. I think I get what you're saying, but I don't see the true justification behind it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrRant 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 Union Rejects Changes to A-Rod's Contract NEW YORK - The baseball players' union rejected Boston's proposed changes to Alex Rodriguez's contract Wednesday, jeopardizing trade talks between the Red Sox and Rangers. Rodriguez and Boston general manager Theo Epstein spent the day meeting with Scott Boras, the shortstop's agent, and Gene Orza, the union's No. 2 official. Boras expects the parties to meet again Thursday, and Texas owner Tom Hicks set a Thursday evening deadline (news - web sites) for an agreement that would send Rodriguez to Boston for Manny Ramirez in a swap of baseball's highest-paid players. "The dialogue is continuing," Boras said. Rodriguez has completed three seasons of his record $252 million, 10-year contract and Ramirez has finished three seasons of his $160 million, eight-year deal. Boston wants Rodriguez to rework his contract, but baseball's collective bargaining agreement says deals can be reworked only to add benefits for players. "We did suggest an offer the club could make to Alex," Orza said. "As was its right, the club chose not to make it." Orza and Boras wouldn't detail Boston's proposal. Rodriguez's contract has $179 million remaining on it. "The principle involved is a transcendent one, affecting all of Alex's fellow players," Orza said. "To his credit, Alex, from the outset, recognized this." You'd think the union would let a player restructure his contract if HE wants to so that he can play for a team HE wants to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfaJack 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 You'd think the union would let a player restructure his contract if HE wants to so that he can play for a team HE wants to. Logic seldom applies to the MLBPA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 The difference is those other pitchers were paid with those intentions in mind. Wagner was paid $8 million with his role in mind. Mariano, Foulke, etc....they were paid to be closers and relief pitchers. Contreras was paid to be a STARTING pitcher. But because he hasn't amazed in his first season, he's going to be pushed down the roster into middle relief? Christ, a $32 million reliever who was SUPPOSED to be a starter? If he was made $8 million to be a closer, that'd be a different story. But he was paid to be a starting pitcher, and now the Yankees will have no problem making a $32 million dollar mistake, and getting Maddux in as well. To me, that's just ridiculous. Teams should not be able to make $32 million dollar mistakes. You have to give him TIME to determine if he's a good starter. You work with him, try to mold him, do something to help him improve. But what they're trying to do is now bring in an All-Star and pay a ridiculous amount of money to a pitcher that didn't work out as a starter, so he was pushed back to pitching an inning a game, when he was signed to pitch 6 or 7. I think I get what you're saying, but I don't see the true justification behind it. To me, its simple. If Contreras isn't one of the five best starters, than he shouldn't start. And if he's not one of the 11-12 best pitchers overall, he shouldn't be on the staff. Salary should never force your team to play a guy who isn't good enough. Doesn't matter in Contreras' case, as he is good. The case in point is the Tigers dropping Damion Easley and eating his contract. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrigidSoul Report post Posted December 18, 2003 Mariano Rivera is handsomely paid (Yanks fans, help me out with an exact figure) he'll make $8.85 mill in 04 don't ask me why I know that off the top of my head because I myself can't figure it out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfaJack 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 Mariano Rivera is handsomely paid (Yanks fans, help me out with an exact figure) he'll make $8.85 mill in 04 don't ask me why I know that off the top of my head because I myself can't figure it out It's simple. Your Sox fandom causes you to be aware of all things Yankee. Thanks, btw. I knew he made a lot, but for some reason I figured it would be even more than that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrigidSoul Report post Posted December 18, 2003 the sad thing is I know alot of contracts, not just Yankee and Red Sox ones. If Beat the Geeks was still on I could be the Baseball Contract Geek Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FrigidSoul Report post Posted December 18, 2003 Gene Orza and Donald Fehr dun fucked up. By denying the trade to go through after all parties were happy they've pissed off the Red Sox, A-Rod, the Rangers, MLB investors, and Bud Selig. Bud Selig along with most of the others stated above are taking the Player's Association to an arbitrator court tommorow, and since one of the top arbitrators already said "The deal makes all parties happy and allows Alex Rodriguez to become a FA a year earlier than his contract states where he could actually demand more money it doesn't decrease the value." it doesn't look good for those two goons The Player's Association got far too power hungry and now they're gonna get ready to screw the pooch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2003 Tomorrow is the deadline for free agents to accept or reject offers of salary arbitration. Kevin Millwood is the only major free agent under consideration here. The complete list..... American League Baltimore: B.J. Surhoff, dh. Cleveland: Terry Mulholland, lhp. New York: Gabe White, lhp. Seattle: Pat Borders, c. National League Atlanta: Julio Franco, 1b. Colorado: Greg Norton, 3b; Mark Sweeney, of. Los Angeles: Wilson Alvarez, lhp; Milwaukee: Eduardo Perez, c; John Vander Wal, of. Philadelphia: Kevin Millwood, rhp; St. Louis: Orlando Palmeiro, of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
