RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 Did they even make reference of Crash leaving Smackdown??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detective Comics 0 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 Steven Richards b Rico - Richards worked as a face and dedicated the match to "his best friend" Crash Holly Rico cut a most bizzare promo beforehand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
art_vandelay 0 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 No- Crash was drafted to RAW and then jumped to SD! Actually, it was more like he was drafted to Heat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Megatron Report post Posted November 11, 2003 To the couple people who say it's all Vince's fault that his former employees seem to drop like flies: They are all humans who have the ability to make choices. If they want to kill themselves outright via suicide, or slowly with drugs/alcohol, that's up to them. Besides, WWE offered Crash some help and he refused, so they fired him. What were they gonna do? Wait until he injured himself or someone else? Same situation with Jeff Hardy, only he hasn't died yet. Same with Eddy. Only he took them up on their offer and he's in the middle of probably the biggest push of his career. Vince offers chances. It's up to them to accept. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fökai 0 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 Perhaps they are afraid that someone will start to fucking CARE and start to take notice about what's going on if they have an "In Memory" thing before every show. With the way WWE thinks, that could be it if they don't say anything about the guy. Wasn't Crash's problem (and probable cause of his death) simply alcohol-related? No one but "Crash" himself is to blame for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DCMaximo 0 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 The bottom line is that, in spite of it being "Vince's fault or Crash's fault", giving up 10 seconds at the start to quickly acknowledge the death of a former superstar who had appeared on many PPV's and clearly had many friends still working for the company would have been a nice gesture Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rob Edwards Report post Posted November 11, 2003 If you said it in court when you were directly involved with the incident and employed Owen... sure. But you didn't. So shut-the-fuck-up and quit being a smartass. I still blame the company that made the faulty harness (I forget the name) Vince managed to get millions in damages out of them anyway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted November 11, 2003 Vince admitted responsibility. I just posted it. Why is there even a debate? Because, in the end, OWEN SAID YES. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BifEverchad 0 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 Guys, this is NOT an Owen Hart thread. Keep on topic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thetrendsetter Report post Posted November 11, 2003 Vince admitted responsibility. I just posted it. Why is there even a debate? Because, in the end, OWEN SAID YES. -=Mike Vince was NEGLIGENT in owen hart's death, not responsible... there's a huge difference, as many people where negligent, including Owen to some extent. In fact, if I was vince's lawyers, I would have made a defense of Voluntary Assumption Of Risk, and tried to get off on it, especially after all the hate he was given, then again, contary to popular belief, Vince is human. YES, he has feelings, yes, he cares about the boys deep down. and he realized that he caused the death of one of his most eldest employees, of course he's going to assume responsiblity. Sorry about getting off topic, As for the 'tribute', maybe they're making a video, maybe, just maybe they couldn't finish one in time for the RAW broadcast. Now, if nothing is aired on Thursday's smackdown, THEN throw the yellow flags. And no, when/if it does air on thursday, don't bitch about how they only did it because of the backlash, because they probably had it posted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldSchoolWrestling 0 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 In the past, if someone died and they didn't have time to put something together, they would at least do the "In Memory of' to start the show and JR and King would make a brief mention of it. Then on the following show they would do a little clip of the wrestler's career. And if it was something big follow it with a Confidential report. They had all weekend to past a picture with an "In Memory of" and chose not to. The guy was with the company earlier this year. They can show a little respect, no? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BifEverchad 0 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 ... Yeah, what he said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PowerPB13 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 (edited) I've known you for a while now, PB (I remember you from AOL) and I never thought you were this thoroughly out of touch with reality. Well, reality bites and so does WWE. Occasionally there's a good show, which is a testament to the talent on the roster putting on great matches in spite of the booking. That's about the only reason to watch WWE nowadays: To see the people who are entertaining to me, even though I know they'll never be used right. -Patrick Edited November 11, 2003 by PowerPB13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 And what if Owen said no? "He's not a team player" "Let's give his push to someone else" Vince and the WWE has created an atmosphere in the locker room where you have to (1)Take drugs (painkillers, steroids), (2)Take physical risks to succeed, (3)Go along with Vince's whacked-ass ideas. Vince pushes the roided up guys, that's clear. Look at Hunter when he got his first big push - this doesn't directly say "Take roids now", but it does strongly suggest that. Vince knows this and doesn't do a thing to stop it (cause he does it too). They promote a schedule that is simply unreasonable, which leads to the use of painkillers. Vince knows about this too. He does nothing to prevent this. They just wait until someone gets fucked up and send them to Rehab. IT IS THE EMPLOYERS RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE PREVENTATIVE MEASURES... oh wait... the WWE aren't employers and the Wrestlers aren't employees. All independent contractors... no health care plan, no retirement packages, no union, no responsibility, no one to stop it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rob Edwards Report post Posted November 11, 2003 And what if Owen said no? "He's not a team player" "Let's give his push to someone else" Reverting to the Blue Blazer gimmick was a push? and it wasn't as if Owen was ever going to have a problem feeding his family, he had a decent guaranteed contract and was never colourful enough to ship a lot of merchandise or warrant a long term high card position to top it up anyway and if he did lose his job WCW would have employed him almost instantly It was his choice, he thought it was safe, Vince thought it was safe, everyone thought it was safe Just a dodgy harness, Vince is no more responsible than he would be if he had asked Owen to do a charity parachute jump and the chute failed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J. Hungerford Smith 0 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 I don't understand why McMahon is blamed for that. Owen had successfully come down from the ceiling before, so it's not like it was a new stunt or anything. Unfortunately, it screwed up once and cost him his life. I remember being in attendance once when he did it, at Survivor Series: Deadly Game, he tried to come from the ceiling on Heat to get Steve Blackman, but they gimmicked it so he would get stuck and thus Blackman could attack him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
welshjerichomark 0 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 I can actually feel my brain cells dying as i read some the shite in this thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PowerPB13 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 I guess this is what happens to the long-time WWF lemmings like myself. I was like that once, always believing that things would turn out all right when something happened in the WWF that I didn't immediately understand, always believing that my favorites would eventually get their due. I guess a part of me knows that Owen's death wasn't truly Vince McMahon's fault...but it still hurts that Owen, one of my all-time favorites, never got to be WWF Champion. Part of me knows that the belts are just props, but part of me still enjoys seeing a favorite get some kind of tangible "reward" for what they do. -Patrick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 Reverting to the Blue Blazer gimmick was a push? He was going to win the IC title. and it wasn't as if Owen was ever going to have a problem feeding his family, he had a decent guaranteed contract and was never colourful enough to ship a lot of merchandise or warrant a long term high card position to top it up anyway But he still had a "spot", and could have easily lost that spot. There's also PPV money - kinda like the PPV he did the stunt on. He could have been sent to just doing house shows and being squash material for lesser guys. Owen just had a home built and was in the process of moving into it. With the way WWE contracts are made it's mainly on a performance basis. There were all sorts of pressure put on him to perform that needless stunt. and if he did lose his job WCW would have employed him almost instantly And who is to say the WWE would fire him? He probably would have been driven into the ground before the WWE would "let him go" to WCW. It was his choice, he thought it was safe, Vince thought it was safe, everyone thought it was safe So it was a choice completely uneffected by Vince McMahon or the WWE? No pressure at all? Come on! Owen didn't think it was safe either and had to be "convinced" into doing it. Just a dodgy harness, Vince is no more responsible than he would be if he had asked Owen to do a charity parachute jump and the chute failed And Vince would be responsible for sending up an inexperienced parachuter up to do a STUNT like that. There's a reason why beginner skydivers don't go on their own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rob Edwards Report post Posted November 11, 2003 He was going to win the IC title. Didn't really mean anything in '99 But he still had a "spot", and could have easily lost that spot. There's also PPV money - kinda like the PPV he did the stunt on. He could have been sent to just doing house shows and being squash material for lesser guys. Owen just had a home built and was in the process of moving into it. With the way WWE contracts are made it's mainly on a performance basis. There were all sorts of pressure put on him to perform that needless stunt. If he really didn't want to do it he didn't have to go through with it, I've not read any reports that Owen was anywhere near as financially useless as most wrestlers seem to be so I don't see that there was any real need to do it unless he was easily persuaded And who is to say the WWE would fire him? He probably would have been driven into the ground before the WWE would "let him go" to WCW. and he'd have got a decent amount of money for doing less, besides I think you're being a bit OTT here John, just because Owen refused to do a stunt I can't see that Vince would depush him, he knew he had value for getting people over So it was a choice completely uneffected by Vince McMahon or the WWE? No pressure at all? Come on! Owen didn't think it was safe either and had to be "convinced" into doing it. If Owen being a family man thought there was anything more than a minute danger he wouldn't have done it, I'm sure he'd have placed being there to bring his son up over money And Vince would be responsible for sending up an inexperienced parachuter up to do a STUNT like that. There's a reason why beginner skydivers don't go on their own. Nah Owen would still be the master of his own destiny by weighing the situation up and taking the risk, tragically he paid for it while guys who take bigger risks every day (Yes Jake Roberts I'm looking at YOU) are still alive Unless we're going to blame Vince for Droz too because he booked him in a match with D-lo it's a bit ridiculous, hell I hate Vince as much as the next man but I can't honestly say he's responsible for Owen, as I say the harness manufacturer is the one we want to direct our hatred at and Owen had done it before and assuming he had sense he'd have practiced, how would training have helped Owen in the situation that occured? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 Everyone, just fucking move on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted November 11, 2003 Shut the Fuck Up. Owen Died 4 Years ago. Casting blame now is uttering stupid and offensive to his memory. This thread was supposed to talk about the absence of a Crash Holly mention on Raw and because an idiot here actually tried to blame Vince McMahon for the death of Lockwood, this whole thing began. Owen died of a Mistake that all parties were responsible for and Lockwood died because he succumbed to pressures that WEREN'T McMahon's fault. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PowerPB13 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 Choken's right, I'm the one who started this. I apologize for saying what I did, it was stupid to even suggest that. WWE is such a sore spot with me nowadays that it doesn't take a whole hell of a lot to piss me off with regards to them. Didn't give me the right to throw baseless accusations around. -Patrick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haVoc 0 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 I just don't get why they couldn't have mentioned Crash's passing. It would take 10-20 seconds. Scumbags. It was nice they let Stevie Richards do a little tribute to Crash on Heat, but it sucks we'll never get to see it since there is a PPV this Sunday. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChick 0 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 I think they'll probably do a "In Memory Of" on Smackdown. Not sure if they'll do anything on Confidential though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Corino 1000 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 I don't like Vince but it wasn't really his fault for the death of Owen Hart....Accidents happen. But still I don't think they should of continued the night when Owen fell from the roof. And I think they should of at least had a memory on Raw of Crash. He's was part of WWE. So the roster split should'nt matter they still should of done a little clip thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted November 11, 2003 Rico cut a most bizzare promo beforehand. I'm guessing it was homosexual-like 'ala Goldust's promos back in 95 - 96? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 12, 2003 Vince McMahon controls the wrestling environment. He could make an easier schedule, he could have scrict drug regulating policies, and he could set an example of a *high ranking* superstar who takes steroids or drugs and fire them. Of course, Vince won't do that. To say he is free from responsibility when he *had the power to stop it, or at least try*, is ridiculous. Vince benefits from drugs-in-pro wrestling, so why would he stop it? Martha Hart said that Owen was worried about the stunt. Vince McMahon thought of it, Vince told Owen to do it, Vince hired the crew to set it up, Vince is responsible and he said so himself. Owen was put under pressure to do it, and that's a fact. People here have a "pulling the trigger" mentality where if someone didn't outright pull the trigger, they didn't have anything to do with a death at all; but in reality, handing someone a gun is just as bad. And so is putting someone in the position where that's the only option they feel is left. Vince would completely depush Owen if he didn't see him as a team player anymore. I mean, look at Vince's mentality at that time - he did that blue blazer thing to *make fun of WCW*, and someone died because of it. He was completely paranoid over the WWE/WCW feud and wouldn't want to give them any leg up at the time (he did it to Jeff Jarrett by having him job to Chyna). And the Droz/Dlo incident is way fucking off base. Don't compare a powerbomb to jumping off the roof of an arena. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detective Comics 0 Report post Posted November 12, 2003 Rico cut a most bizzare promo beforehand. I'm guessing it was homosexual-like 'ala Goldust's promos back in 95 - 96? No! He was like "oh, you want to dedicate your match to Crash, well isn't that nice. Too bad things are going to go tragicly wrong..." His wording was much more to the effect of "Crash is dead and I will piss on his death." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
