When in trouble...

[cawthon777 0]

I suspect any number of us could do a better job.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

I suspect any number of us could do a better job.

That's not saying much really..

[Slayer 0]

Storyline consultants doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be writers. The idea I get from this is that they're people who will tell Vince/Steph whether or not storylines make sense and have the correct continuity [you don't need to be a wrestling fan to understand that]. Two things which this company sorely needs.

Need I bring up the other couple of times in the last few years when external consultants pointed out such errors, and were then promptly shown the door as quickly as they were brought in?

[Guest BionicRedneck]

I suspect any number of us could do a better job.

I dunno. It depends, but generally I would say the WWE would be even worse with the average smark in charge.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Nope, and I expect these fine folks will be shown the door as well.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Whoops...

 

... that's what 2hrs of sleep will do.

[jester 0]

Need I bring up the other couple of times in the last few years when external consultants pointed out such errors, and were then promptly shown the door as quickly as they were brought in?

Yes. This exactly what will happen again.

 

CONSULTANT WHO GETS FIRED: "There are problems with illogical storylines, a focus on people who don't actually wrestle..."

 

CONSULTANT WHO KEEPS GETTING WORK: "Everything in WWE is just fine the way it is. The problem is your audience. They just don't appreciate all the hard work you do, Vince. Bret Hart may also be at fault somehow too."

[Slayer 0]

Whoops...

 

... that's what 2hrs of sleep will do.

What will it do?

[AndrewTS 0]

I suspect any number of us could do a better job.

I dunno. It depends, but generally I would say the WWE would be even worse with the average smark in charge.

The ones who would do exactly what Heymen did, yeah.

 

However, a good number of us understand that feuds can't be driven by matches alone, that getting characters over and giving them the time and ability to get themselves over is very important. Also, a wrestler having great workrate isn't a reason by itself to push that person, and a person with poor workrate who makes up for it in other areas can be extremely valuable and maybe even become a huge draw.

 

I'd personally remove all the non-wrestling talent from major angles.

 

I'd pay special attention to continuity. Two guys had a major feud in WCW? We build on that. Two guys former tag team partners who had a bitter breakup? They just don't team up together in a 6-man tag and act like nothing happened.

 

Fluffers like Dawn and Torrie? NEVER EVER will they be at the center of a feud. Their roles will be valets clapping at ringside or quick Tn'A matches.

 

There would be some goofy characters, but intentionally. Not the supposedly serious angles that end up looking incredibly stupid.

 

Heels would booked stronger overall--except for HHH, who would have to be booked to look more vulnerable.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Wrong thread ASlay.

 

You could take a dozen people from this board, give them a week to think about storylines, and they'd give at least a years worth that would be 100x's better than what the WWE would think of in 52 weeks.

[NoCalMike 0]

Heyman>Cornette

[Slayer 0]

Wrong thread ASlay.

 

You could take a dozen people from this board, give them a week to think about storylines, and they'd give at least a years worth that would be 100x's better than what the WWE would think of in 52 weeks.

Aslay... I like that... sounds pig-latinish

 

How many weeks worth of material did we come up with in the Fertig (cheap plug) thread?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

In one hour we managed to stretch out about 3-4 months worth of material.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Heyman>Cornette

Pfftt.

 

Cornette >>> Heyman. Better manager, better talker, better booker. Corny is a wrestling genius.

Edited November 15, 2003 by BionicRedneck

[deancoles 0]

Ric Flair would be a good choice of booker.His 1989 booking might not have done anything financially but wwe has a lot more money than 1989 nwa did.His 1994 booking would have overtaken wwf sooner or later but Hulk Hogan came in and set wcw back by 2 years until the nWo.

[The Czech Republic 0]

How many weeks worth of material did we come up with in the Fertig (cheap plug) thread?

Oh, we wrote months worth of stuff in the Fertig (cheap plug) thread. Fertig (cheap plug) was a huge success. For those who have yet to read Fertig (cheap plug) , I suggest you find a way to get acquainted with Tomko and Fertig (cheap plug) .

[Guest MikeSC]

This baffles my mind. They know they're in trouble and need someone to lead them and they have both Paul Heyman and Jim Cornette on the payroll, one doing nothing besides on screen and the other being wasted in the minor leagues. I mean, for goodness sake, they are like poler opposites in booking but both are considered the best minds in wrestling, why the hell doesn't WWE turn to THEM instead of Hollywood writers who don't know a wristlock from a wristwatch!? Is it pride? Vince can't admit that anyone else can do wrestling better than him? Thats kind of what he's doing by hiring more consultants anyway, that are just going to make things worse! I mean, Jesus, even Eric Bischoff is on the payroll. For all his past mistakes, the man was in charge of the most succesfull wrestling company in history for 2 years! It's like between Heyman, Cornette and Bischoff, all of whom you're paying anyway mostly just so other promotions like TNA can't take them and you can't add even use one of them to make your own shows better?! 3 people who have spent their very life in wrestling... I just don't get it...

Well, if you listen to his shoot, Cornette DOESN'T want to be involved in the WWE. He LIKES being with OVW and working near his home. If that is what he wants, I say let him do that.

 

Heyman is iffy. He is a decent booker --- but he doesn't know how to deliver something "special" for a PPV. That was his problem. His SD shows were terrific --- but it QUICKLY became recycling the same match-ups over and over.

 

I say let Dreamer do some work. Let Matt Hardy do some (OMEGA was a fun little promotion). Bring back Foley and let HIM do some.

-=Mike

[Guest Dids]

Keep in mind that we keep hearing that non-wrestling angles keep getting better ratings.

 

Wrestling fans hate stupid McMahon angles.

 

TV fans seem to like them.

 

The WWE is not trying to fashion a product that wrestling fans enjoy. They're trying to capture fans that they don't have- and the best way to do that is probably not with 30 minute techinical masterpieces.

 

It's with the stupid father/daughter angles that we all hate.

 

I think the best of both worlds are angles like the NWO- where it's both wrestling and Sports Entertainment- and that's what the WWE has been lacking as of late. If somebody can find that for them- they should be all for it.

[AndrewTS 0]

The WWE is not trying to fashion a product that wrestling fans enjoy. They're trying to capture fans that they don't have- and the best way to do that is probably not with 30 minute techinical masterpieces.

No one said that would be.

 

It's with the stupid father/daughter angles that we all hate. 

 

Is it really? Assuming that's what has been doing it, and not Cena, Eddy, actually building to a wrestling match on a PPV seriously, etc.; WWE's been basically doing variations of the various McMahon bullshit for 3 years now, trying to recapture that hot period, but the decline continued. Just now it seems to be producing results in TV ratings, so why didn't it sooner?

 

I think the best of both worlds are angles like the NWO- where it's both wrestling and Sports Entertainment- and that's what the WWE has been lacking as of late.  If somebody can find that for them- they should be all for it.

 

Which is basically what I said in my previous post. The current McMahonamania angles may be drawing ratings, but its doing dick for buyrates and attendance. The NWO angle ushered in increases in ratings, buyrates, and attendance.

 

Of course, we're assuming the aim is to actually use the talent that WWE has to draw money, when it's really just the McMahons' personal playground. Whatever the ratings may be is of little consequence, because either way we won't be seeing anything let up in that regard.

 

They figure they've got a core audience that can't be driven away no matter what, so they'll just book for their own amusement.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

The WWE is not trying to fashion a product that wrestling fans enjoy.  They're trying to capture fans that they don't have- and the best way to do that is probably not with 30 minute techinical masterpieces. 

 

It's with the stupid father/daughter angles that we all hate.

Then they should be drawing in new fans in droves, because that's exactly what they're doing. So what's the problem? Why hasn't it happened yet? Answer: the bumps in ratings are absolutely tiny in the grand scheme of things, and there is still the inherent problem that no one wants to buy the PPVs aside from the loyal fanbase (reason enough to dispute that Heyman is the Almighty Solution), a group that WWE doesn't want to market to, according to you. EVEN WHEN the PPVs are centered around the McMahons, which has been the case for several months now, no one wants to buy them. In terms of revenue, buyrates are at such a higher priority than a 0.3 rating increase, it's mind-boggling how anyone could try and dispute that.

Edited November 15, 2003 by Mulatto Heat

[Slayer 0]

How many weeks worth of material did we come up with in the Fertig (cheap plug) thread?

Oh, we wrote months worth of stuff in the Fertig (cheap plug) thread. Fertig (cheap plug) was a huge success. For those who have yet to read Fertig (cheap plug) , I suggest you find a way to get acquainted with Tomko and Fertig (cheap plug) .

The Czeap-plug Republic

[Highland 0]

I can see one reason why Vince does not want fans as writers. Think of it: If you were a writer and a fan, wouldn't you be tempted to write good stories for the wrestlers you like and shitty ones for those you don't care much about or even dislike?

I think Vince has a valid point, if indeed that is one of his reasons for not hiring fans.

[Fökai 0]

Think of what this guy on creative [Heyman]could do with a roster like Angle, Benoit, Cena, Lesnar, Paul London, Spanky, World's Greatest Tag Team, Eddie Guerrerro, etc?

 

Book the same matches month after month, with no proper storyline or buildup?

[justcoz 0]

Think of what this guy on creative [Heyman]could do with a roster like Angle, Benoit, Cena, Lesnar, Paul London, Spanky, World's Greatest Tag Team, Eddie Guerrerro, etc?

 

Book the same matches month after month, with no proper storyline or buildup?

 

LOL, perhaps... Or he could create tomorrow's stars and make a contribution to taking the business to it's much needed next phase. I'm not saying Heyman doesn't have creative faults but it's nothing worse than what we have right now and nothing where you couldn't have another's input to pick up the slack for his weakness.

 

If you give Heyman guys with the workrate that the Smackdown roster has and free reign - the product will change.

 

Heyman is good at developing characters and picking out the strengths of someone and running with them. That's why ECW Taz was better than WWE Tazz. That's why ECW Rob Van Dam was better than Raw's RVD. Heyman was also not bad at delivering controversy and much of the attitude that later made WWF.

 

You can pick on us Heyman supporters but all you have to do is read about the Smackdown roster's reaction to his arrival and hopes that he would be returning to creative. All you have to do is listen to the credit he is given for what he did for the careers of Steve Austin and Mick Foley.

 

I guarantee you that Eddie and Cena would have been Rock and STone Cold by now under Heyman's reign. We'd be getting **** matches on Smackdown between Spanky/London and WGTT or at least Spanky/London vs. Mysterio/Kidman, etc. Ultimo Dragon would be used better. Jamie Noble would be used better. Brock Lesnar would be a monster. Pretty much I think the entire roster, even the hosses would be better off. I can picture A Train getting over in a 911 kind of way rather than this force feeding that they are giving us with him that nobody is buying.

 

And apparently according to 1Bob, the consultants found a lot of faults in Stephanie's work. My guess is they won't be back at next week's tapings...

[Fökai 0]

Heyman is good at developing characters and picking out the strengths of someone and running with them. That's why ECW Taz was better than WWE Tazz. That's why ECW Rob Van Dam was better than Raw's RVD.

The WWE version of RVD is LOADS better than any thirty-minute stall and no-sell session by Van Dam. His offense is MUCH more believable this time around.

 

Tazz becoming a color commentator for the WWE was the best decision he made - he was an average wrestler at best, with great charisma.

 

Heyman was also not bad at delivering controversy and much of the attitude that later made WWF.

The WWF succeeded, because at KOTR 1996, they sowed the seeds of a badass heel working as a face - he was advertised as the "best wrestler in the WWF" (during Bret's hiatus after XII ) and would continue developing his gimmick, until he exploded in late 1997.

 

Heyman didn't "make" WWF what it was in the late 90's. It was proper character development, good pacing, and arguably the best storyline of the 1990's.

 

You can pick on us Heyman supporters but all you have to do is read about the Smackdown roster's reaction to his arrival and hopes that he would be returning to creative. All you have to do is listen to the credit he is given for what he did for the careers of Steve Austin and Mick Foley.

He isn't responsible for their success. That's like saying the Chicago Cubs are responsible for the success of Greg Maddux. They were both there for VERY short stints.

 

I guarantee you that Eddie and Cena would have been Rock and STone Cold by now under Heyman's reign.

Heyman never made a "Rock" or a "Stone Cold". Heyman is great for morale and putting together great matches, but little else. He's the "fantasy booker" that we all were at the age of ten, putting together matches with our WWF/WCW figurines.

 

We'd be getting **** matches on Smackdown between Spanky/London and WGTT or at least Spanky/London vs. Mysterio/Kidman, etc.

 

We got that last year with the Smackdown Six. What ultimate good did it do? MOTY candidates?

 

Brock Lesnar would be a monster.

He isn't?

 

And apparently according to 1Bob, the consultants found a lot of faults in Stephanie's work. My guess is they won't be back at next week's tapings...

Vince already HAS a bunch of yes-men - if he needed his ass kissed, he'd look to Patterson, Brisco, Garea, any of the road agents without any balls, and anyone from the entire roster of wrestlers. They actually brought in consultants to CRITIQUE the product.

[Guest Super Pissed Smark]

I'd personally remove all the non-wrestling talent from major angles.

 

Vince: You're fired!

 

I'd pay special attention to continuity. Two guys had a major feud in WCW? We build on that. Two guys former tag team partners who had a bitter breakup? They just don't team up together in a 6-man tag and act like nothing happened.

 

Vince: WCW? What's that?

 

Fluffers like Dawn and Torrie? NEVER EVER will they be at the center of a feud. Their roles will be valets clapping at ringside or quick Tn'A matches.

 

Vince: You're fired again!

 

There would be some goofy characters, but intentionally. Not the supposedly serious angles that end up looking incredibly stupid.

 

Vince: I don't recall that ever happening. Are you sure you're familiar with the product?

 

Heels would booked stronger overall--except for HHH, who would have to be booked to look more vulnerable.

 

Triple-H: You clearly don't understand the wrestling business-uh!

Steph: AAAaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh! Daaaaaaaad-deeeeeeeee! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Triple-H: I'm the only real draw this company has ever had-uh!

Steph: WWWWaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh! Daaaad-deeee, make it stop! Aaarrrrrrrrggghhhhhhhh!

Triple-H: I'd job you to Funaki if you wrestled you bastard! Uh!

Steph: Dad--(head spins 360, vomits, passes out)

Vince: Are you still here?

 

And apparently according to 1Bob, the consultants found a lot of faults in Stephanie's work. My guess is they won't be back at next week's tapings...

 

Seriously, how is it that Vince can't find a single yes-man in Hollywood? McMahon incompetence is truly off the scale.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

You all really need to put more time and effort into the HHH/Steph skits.

[AndrewTS 0]

I can see one reason why Vince does not want fans as writers. Think of it: If you were a writer and a fan, wouldn't you be tempted to write good stories for the wrestlers you like and shitty ones for those you don't care much about or even dislike?

I think Vince has a valid point, if indeed that is one of his reasons for not hiring fans.

You're assuming that anything Vince does has a point.

 

And I'd be trying to give something decent for each "superstar" (can't call them wrestlers, you know). Lord knows that's better than putting basically every one of them in shitty storylines.

 

Besides, Gerwitz WAS going to be showing favoritism to Hurricane, which was punished by--jobbing out Hurricane. So, no matter what there's going to be favoritism.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

So it's better to have people whom know nothing about wrestling, than have people whom know something about wrestling??

 

Oook.

 

The only reason Vince hires "hollywood" writers is because he needs someone with proven durability. He needs someone who can write for 52 shows a year straight and be given instructions. That, and he's a fucking moron.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I guarantee you that Eddie and Cena would have been Rock and STone Cold by now under Heyman's reign.  We'd be getting **** matches on Smackdown between Spanky/London and WGTT or at least Spanky/London vs. Mysterio/Kidman, etc.  Ultimo Dragon would be used better.  Jamie Noble would be used better.  Brock Lesnar would be a monster.  Pretty much I think the entire roster, even the hosses would be better off.  I can picture A Train getting over in a 911 kind of way rather than this force feeding that they are giving us with him that nobody is buying.

That first sentence is pure conjecture especially since Heyman has no track record of producing a Rock or a Stone Cold. In fact, all the rest of it is mere speculation as well. Yes, I would like A-Train to merely do random run-ins. We don't have enough of those.

 

I also have to wonder where this "Heyman would utilize the cruiserweights more" thing came from. Does no one else remember how the "Bill DeMott bullies and squashes cruiserweights" angle was under Heyman's regime? How about A-Train squashing Rey Mysterio?

 

Anyway, one of WWE's huge problems is that while they have decent TV viewership, the PPV audience is the pits, and Heyman's booking would do absolutely nothing to change that, because that is exactly what his style produces. Also, he has his favorites that get screwed over in the end because of Heyman's abrasiveness.