Bush vist to the U.K.

[Zorin Industries 0]

With Bush about to arrive into the U.K. today, I thought it would be interesting to hear people's opinions on the trip.

 

It is the 1st offical state visit of a U.S President since Woodrow Wilson in 1918, and already it is looking to be controversial. What impact do you think this will have on Bush, Blair and the attitudes of U.S. and U.K. citizens.

[Firestarter 0]

What impact do you think this will have on Bush

Zero. Zip. Nada. Your mom.

 

Blair

Negative.

 

and the attitudes of U.S.

Why would it have any impact? It's only proper that the President drop by our missile bases from time to time.

 

and U.K. citizens.

Honestly, who cares?

[Firestarter 0]

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

Obviously, my reply was facetious. I'll respond more seriously later; in the meantime, check out British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw's editorial on the subject in today's Wall Street Journal.

[Anorak 0]

What impact do you think this will have on Bush

Zero. Zip. Nada. Your mom.

 

Your mom???? Dear me, you have to toss that old chessnut out with care or you sound silly. 'Ya mam' has so much more character about with a regional accent as well.

 

I want to see Bush get into a fist fight with some egg chucking protestor like John Presscott did that time. Not many politicians can have a better right hook than him.

[Swift Terror 0]

Damn, the WSJ editorial online is only available to subscribers. I don't know what Jack Straw said, but the mayor of London certainly disapproves of Pres. Bush. He referred to him as "greatest threat to life on this planet that we've most probably ever seen". Oooooo--k.

[Anorak 0]

I think he will get a mixed reception but his opponents will make sure they are ten times noisier to make more headlines. Any egg chucking anarchists should be careful, I bet the old guy has a decent swing on him. If he did do a Prescott his popularity over here would probably go through the roof.

[Anorak 0]

the mayor of London certainly disapproves of Pres. Bush. He referred to him as "greatest threat to life on this planet that we've most probably ever seen". Oooooo--k.

Nobody cares what old Ken has to say about anything, probably because of lines like that.

[Swift Terror 0]

Bush in a fist-fight, sweeeeeet.

 

So, honest question: since you are over there, what does the average Brit on the street think of Pres. Bush? By watching cable news in the U.S., one gets the impression that nearly everyone despises him, or at least thinks he's a cretin.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Maybe he can stop and say some rhetoric specifically for the UK-crowd and they'll feel better?

 

"I want to thank you all for coming out here, you're the best crowd I've lied to yet."

"*cheers*"

[Guest Cerebus]

Bush in a fist-fight, sweeeeeet.

Maybe those years defending us against the Mexican Air Force taught him a thing or two about self defense.

[welshjerichomark 0]

Bush in a fist-fight, sweeeeeet.

 

So, honest question: since you are over there, what does the average Brit on the street think of Pres. Bush? By watching cable news in the U.S., one gets the impression that nearly everyone despises him, or at least thinks he's a cretin.

I don't dislike him in the slightest, he's just kinda scary. I'm not a Tony Blair supporter though.

[Guest MikeSC]

I think he will get a mixed reception but his opponents will make sure they are ten times noisier to make more headlines. Any egg chucking anarchists should be careful, I bet the old guy has a decent swing on him. If he did do a Prescott his popularity over here would probably go through the roof.

Actually, I do have something to ponder about the British left:

 

Why does Bush's visit cause SUCH outrage? Why is he called evil and the like? Is SADDAM RUNNING IRAQ preferrable?

 

Putin, who SLAUGHTERED Chechens and allowed those sailors on the sub to simply drown rather than ask for help, didn't get ANY protests during his visit.

 

Nicolae Ceausescu in 1978 got no protests. We won't even go into HIS human rights violations.

 

Interesting what constitutes evil to the European left.

 

As Blair commented, the U.S is in a bizarre situation. The world doesn't want us to act unilaterally, but when we seek allies, nobody wishes to aid anything --- forcing us to act unilaterally.

-=Mike

...Who thought Bush's "I'm glad to go to a country where people are free to protest" was the PERFECT response to it.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Why does Bush's visit cause SUCH outrage? Why is he called evil and the like? Is SADDAM RUNNING IRAQ preferrable?

Because Bush is like ... HITLER!...

[tommytomlin 0]

I'm going to take a wild swing at it and say because it's much easier to organise a protest against the most visible world leader in the entire world than a guy like Ceausescu, who most of the people who attended the protests would think was that French dude who did lots of deep sea dives. The average Brit wouldn't care about Chechnya, but something like Iraq has been front page news for years. I'm not saying Brits are a bunch of uneducated slobs because it's the same in any country, but the only way you can mobilise public opinion on such a massive scale is by protesting a guy as visible as Bush.

 

I think the people comparing Bush to Hitler are morons, but you seem to be invalidating their protest just because they haven't protested in the past. They still have a valid argument to protest in such large numbers against Bush, whether or not they protested against Putin, or Mugabe, is irrelevant.

 

And what's with the massive generalisations? 'The British Left'. 'The European Left'. The British Conservative Party is about as right-wing as you can get, and many of their MP's opposed the war in Iraq. You don't have to be a left winger to oppose British involvement in the Iraq war. I'm Australian and I didn't have a problem with Australia's involvement in the war because it increased our chance of getting a favourable free trade deal with America. For Britain, the benefits aren't as obvious. British soldiers have died, British money has been spent and the country has been divided for a war that the British people stopped supporting a month before it started. That's why people are protesting.

[Anorak 0]

Why does Bush's visit cause SUCH outrage? Why is he called evil and the like? Is SADDAM RUNNING IRAQ preferrable?

Because Bush is like ... HITLER!...

The lead singer of Primal Scream (British band) angrily declared 'What's the difference between Bush and Hitler'? = Example 11189 of why celebrities should never be allowed to talk about politics. Especially very thick musicians.

 

It surprised me to hear on television last night that even The Guardian had printed a poll which declared pro-Bush sentiment to currently outstrip the hostility. You won't see much of that silent majority on the news though.

 

Due to the long running 'Bush is thick' propoganda which became very widespread when he became President he has the same unflattering image as anywhere else among people with little active interest or knowledge of politics (people who believe everything they read). Stereotypes of Texans have travelled and firmly settled over here it is perhaps worth mentioning, any slurs or 'explanations' for his actions based on behaving like a Texan in America will definately be repeated over here to some degree.

 

Among the rest I would argue many respect his firm and consistant stance on terrorism. His post 9/11 speeches I think won him some of that respect as well as he showed some real character when many observers doubted he could pull through convincingly. The fact he has shown himself to have a sense of humor at certain points (little quips here and there, sometimes to skillfully diffuse hecklers won't have done him any harm either) has shown a more personable side to his character. As far as answering why protestors will focus on Bush so much T. Tomlin nailed it in his first paragraph. Bush's face is just as familiar to everybody as Blair's over here really, a lot of people wouldn't know Putin by sight because he's never been on the front page of The Sun or had a visit that recieved any real in-depth coverage, let alone hype.

[Zorin Industries 0]

The reason I think people have a problem with Bush is the way he can come across on television. I know a lot of people, Tony Blair for example, say in private he comes across as very intelligent, but if you can't get that across on television it is hard for people to believe.

 

Let me put my own example on this: As some of you may know I live in Northern Ireland, back in 1996 or 1997 (I forget the exact date) we had Bill Clinton make an offical visit to support the peace process. It was a very hopeful time for the province back then and Clinton's visit was seen as a momentus and positive event. I have never seen this place that welcoming of any foreign dignitary. Clinton was treated as a hero, he was swamped with well wishers when he took a walk down the Fall's Road, politicans were lining up to meet and talk with him and he addressed the crowd outside Belfast City Hall to a rapturous crowd. The man's personal charisma carried this off perfectly. He made it seem to everyone he met that he was going to make sure that America was behind us and it really seemed like he was going to make a difference for the country, and to this day he is still seen in a very favourable light here.

 

However, compare this to Bush's visit earlier this year and the difference is extraordinary. He came to very little fanfare, the only reception he got from the local people were a couple of protesters on the motorway, local politicans were nowhere to be seen with the praise they had for Clinton. There was no meeting the people in the streets which was one of the defining images of Clinton's visit. He went to Hillsborough Castle, conducted his business, made a short statement and left.

 

That is what I feel has lead to a lot of the ill feeling for Bush overseas, the feeling that he dosen't really care about anyone but America. Now, I can understand that, after all he was elected to lead the U.S., not Northern Ireland. However with the U.S. being the Hyperpower of the world, it is up to Bush to be seen to take the views of the rest of the world into account, or else why should the rest of the world listening to the U.S. Failing to sign up to the Kyoto agreement and the I.C.C. was the first step on that road. We have to wait and see what happens with the trade tariffs, if Bush is smart he will drop them to increase goodwill, but I wait with bated breath to see if that happens.

[PLAGIARISM! 0]

Bush is no Hitler, but only because Hitler was smart.

[Guest MikeSC]

Bush is no Hitler, but only because Hitler was smart.

Judging by your comment, you are exceptionally well qualified to discuss stupidity.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

The reason I think people have a problem with Bush is the way he can come across on television. I know a lot of people, Tony Blair for example, say in private he comes across as very intelligent, but if you can't get that across on television it is hard for people to believe.

 

Let me put my own example on this: As some of you may know I live in Northern Ireland, back in 1996 or 1997 (I forget the exact date) we had Bill Clinton make an offical visit to support the peace process. It was a very hopeful time for the province back then and Clinton's visit was seen as a momentus and positive event. I have never seen this place that welcoming of any foreign dignitary. Clinton was treated as a hero, he was swamped with well wishers when he took a walk down the Fall's Road, politicans were lining up to meet and talk with him and he addressed the crowd outside Belfast City Hall to a rapturous crowd. The man's personal charisma carried this off perfectly. He made it seem to everyone he met that he was going to make sure that America was behind us and it really seemed like he was going to make a difference for the country, and to this day he is still seen in a very favourable light here.

 

However, compare this to Bush's visit earlier this year and the difference is extraordinary. He came to very little fanfare, the only reception he got from the local people were a couple of protesters on the motorway, local politicans were nowhere to be seen with the praise they had for Clinton. There was no meeting the people in the streets which was one of the defining images of Clinton's visit. He went to Hillsborough Castle, conducted his business, made a short statement and left.

 

That is what I feel has lead to a lot of the ill feeling for Bush overseas, the feeling that he dosen't really care about anyone but America. Now, I can understand that, after all he was elected to lead the U.S., not Northern Ireland. However with the U.S. being the Hyperpower of the world, it is up to Bush to be seen to take the views of the rest of the world into account, or else why should the rest of the world listening to the U.S. Failing to sign up to the Kyoto agreement and the I.C.C. was the first step on that road. We have to wait and see what happens with the trade tariffs, if Bush is smart he will drop them to increase goodwill, but I wait with bated breath to see if that happens.

The protests is why Bush ISN'T meeting with the people. It'd be a huge security risk. When you have some people comparing you to Hitler, you're not going to meet with people and be a sitting duck.

 

The sad thing is --- Clinton didn't actually DO anything note-worthy and is treated like a hero. Bush saves the lives of Iraqis and is trying to bring something resembling peace and order to a region is desperate need of it and is treated like Satan.

 

Sad thing is, if Bush lowers tariffs, he's going to have riots here. Unions will NOT like it.

 

Then again, they don't vote Republican and the GOP is big on free trade, so Bush won't really be swayed. It all depends on whether Europe will lower their tariffs in kind.

-=Mike

...Sadly, trying to do the right thing will get you slammed and hated while doing nothing will make you beloved.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

Zorin, other being charismatic and making you feel good, what actual lasting impact did Clinton have on the peace process?

[Zorin Industries 0]

Zorin, other being charismatic and making you feel good, what actual lasting impact did Clinton have on the peace process?

Oh nothing, not really. He may have added an extra stamp of legitamacy to the process but that was about it.

 

That really wasn't the point though, I was trying to say that presentation is the key, you can do very little but still make yourself look could if you can present it correctly. I think that has been Bush's fatal flaw in foreign relations.

[Firestarter 0]

I was trying to say that presentation is the key, you can do very little but still make yourself look could if you can present it correctly. I think that has been Bush's fatal flaw in foreign relations.

From what twisted perspective is placing achievement above appearances a "fatal flaw?"

[Jobber of the Week 0]

It was well reported in the UK press that the UK government turned down a lot of requests from the Secret Service, ranging from giving Secret Service immunity in the case of an "accidental" shooting of a protester (note that even without this immunity, they were still allowed to shoot someone who was a clear and present threat to the President), shutting down the underground train system, and even reinforcing Buckingham Palace with blast windows and the like. They also requested the presence of a US-manned gatling gun in the motorcade. All denied.

 

Either the Secret Service is supposed to ask for everything and the kitchen sink and the British were right in denying the more crazy requests, or he thinks he's so hated over there that people will destroy B.Palace to get to him, in which case maybe it's better to simply stay here.

 

Still, I just think of Tony Blair driving through Times Square with a gatling gun. I'm sure quite a few people here would have taken issue with that.

[Firestarter 0]

I think a lot of public relations problems could be solved with the judicious use of Gatling guns.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I was trying to say that presentation is the key, you can do very little but still make yourself look could if you can present it correctly. I think that has been Bush's fatal flaw in foreign relations.

From what twisted perspective is placing achievement above appearances a "fatal flaw?"

Fox News?

 

Hi-yooooo

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I think a lot of public relations problems could be solved with the judicious use of Gatling guns.

That one just blows me away though. You're more familiar with this kind of thing than I am. Is it normal for the Secret Service to request everything they possibly can and then mark off the more extreme measures when they get rejected?

 

 

Half of me believes this is their job and this usual protocol is being blown out of proportion by the LIBERAL TABLOID MEDIA OF DEATH, and my other half thinks they actually see hostility being high enough that a situation could pop up where they suddently need a chaingun.

[Swift Terror 0]

The Secret Service must be clinically insane to actually have the audacity to make such requests. Who do they think they are, what with wanting to shoot someone who is posing a threat to the President?

 

And there are certainly NO Islamic terrorists among the approximately (reportedly) 70,000 protestors.

 

Tony Blair, if you want to visit the U.S. and there are nutjobs from radical groups making hay about protesting, you go ahead and arrive armed to the teeth. More power to you.

[Zorin Industries 0]

I was trying to say that presentation is the key, you can do very little but still make yourself look could if you can present it correctly. I think that has been Bush's fatal flaw in foreign relations.

From what twisted perspective is placing achievement above appearances a "fatal flaw?"

I would wager it would matter a great deal to the general public, not placing it above achievement but making sure that they actually understand there has been an achievement. Where in the age of the soundbite now and for better or worse (I think worse) apperance is key to success

[Zorin Industries 0]

Have just been watching news of the protests in London and I have to say I have never seen so much hate for one man in all my life. You would think London was in the heart of the Gaza Strip what with all the U.S. flags being burnt. I knew that Bush was disliked but the size and intensity of these protests have surprised me

[Zorin Industries 0]

The protests is why Bush ISN'T meeting with the people. It'd be a huge security risk. When you have some people comparing you to Hitler, you're not going to meet with people and be a sitting duck.

Sorry, should have made this clearer, as far as I remember there wasn't even an offical meet and great with a selected audience, it was just in and out.