LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 I've been watching Angel reruns, but that's because I haven't seen most of these episodes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 I've only seen the eps.'s once since originally aired That "once" is the reruns. I've seen the originals, then I've seen the reruns. Everything changes and moves on to the next season in Wheadon shows. That's not just season 4. But I think Season 4 stands above every other season (cept, of course, S1) in terms of developing characters. The development is shown in Season 5. The actual transition period isn't so much meant to be enjoyed as it is to be survived... at least, that's how I feel with S4. That's why there were those gimmick episodes (Hush, Superstar, Restless) - to keep people happy while all the changes occur. I don't really care about Willow "becoming" a lesbian or the beginning of her relationship with Tara and the breakdown of her relationship with Oz nearly as much as I do with Tara/Willows fully established relationship in S5. I don't really care about Buffy's tuff time in school and her struggles with "boys" and beer and growing into adulthood as I do with her as an adult. S4 was necessary for these things to be established and there was no way to get around it; all Joss could do was make it as painless as possible so that Season 5 could become the masterpiece it was. What I find funny is that we're talkin bout Angel in the Buffy thread and Buffy in the Angel thread Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mole 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Season 5 is out in two weeks....but I don't have the cash for it. :-( I have to wait till X-Mas to get it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin EC Report post Posted November 30, 2003 (edited) I think liking season four has a lot to do with people favouring the early years of Buffy as opposed to the later years. While characters did develop in S4, for the most part they were still nearer their seasons 1/2/3 incarnations than seasons 5/6/7. While RRR cares more about the relationship of Willow/Tara in S5, personally I cared a whole lot more about Willow/Oz, so when the break-up happened in S4, it probably meant more to me. I guess this is kinda a generalisation but for the most part, it seems to hold true. Edited November 30, 2003 by Vitamin EC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 I would have thought that people who liked the earlier Buffys would have hated Season 4 - considering it was such a departure. Watching it at the time (albiet inconsistently), Xander as the loser-living-in-his-mothers-basement, Willow having her "change", Buffy being more of a clingy slut, Giles having relatively nothing to do - the fellowship was breaking and it was frustrating. The relationships created in the early seasons were coming undone and new ones were being created... I'm one of those folks who generally hate change in a good series (see my Simpsons rants), and I think a lot of people are like that too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 (edited) I would have thought that people who liked the earlier Buffys would have hated Season 4 - considering it was such a departure. Watching it at the time (albiet inconsistently), Xander as the loser-living-in-his-mothers-basement, Willow having her "change", Buffy being more of a clingy slut, Giles having relatively nothing to do - the fellowship was breaking and it was frustrating. The relationships created in the early seasons were coming undone and new ones were being created... I'm one of those folks who generally hate change in a good series (see my Simpsons rants), and I think a lot of people are like that too. See that was touched on perfectly in "The Yoko Factor" Spoiler (Highlight to Read): You're right they were growing apart and the season ended with them coming together....literally with the joining of the scoobies to make Uber Buffy!! That's why I like season 4 because it showed the strengthening of the scoobies that was necessary for Season 5. Edited November 30, 2003 by LaParkaYourCar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin EC Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Things may have changed in S4 but as bad as the groups were broken up, it still doesn't compare to how different the group mechanics were in seasons 5, 6 and 7. Groups may have changed but for the most part, the characters felt like how they did in earlier seasons as opposed to how they grew up later on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cavi 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 I love the scene in "Primeval" when... Spoiler (Highlight to Read): they are infiltrating the Initiative. I mark when Will and Buffy hug Xander. I would have thought that people who liked the earlier Buffys would have hated Season 4 - considering it was such a departure. Yeah, often have I seen straight up S1-3 fans. Four is the second least liked by the majority, after all. Even Tony Head himself once said he thought it just didn't work. I really enjoyed how it was a transition into the latter half of the series, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlackFlagg 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Just watched Passion, still one of my absolute favs...just utterly amazing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Youth N Asia 0 Report post Posted November 30, 2003 Spoiler (Highlight to Read): Giles: "You don't train with me anymore. He's (Adam) gonna kick your ass." Buffy: "Are you drunk?" Giles: "Yes, quite a bit actually." ------------------------------------------- Buffy to Willow: "Tara's your girlfriend?" Giles drunk in background: "Bloody helllll" Yoko Factor owns! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mole 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Spoiler (Highlight to Read): Giles: "You don't train with me anymore. He's (Adam) gonna kick your ass." Buffy: "Are you drunk?" Giles: "Yes, quite a bit actually." ------------------------------------------- Buffy to Willow: "Tara's your girlfriend?" Giles drunk in background: "Bloody helllll" Yoko Factor owns! Spoiler (Highlight to Read): Yes, Giles drunk owns! I like the fact the series changed so much. I think that is why I like season 6 so much, along with the drama, all of the changes that happened. I just didn't like season 4 because it didn't have "it" like the other seasons did. Spoiler (Highlight to Read): Season 2 had Angelus, season 3 had Faith, the Mayor, "The Wish," and nothing but great episodes, season 5 was ONE big storyline with many themes, season 6 had a darkside, and season 7 had Spike at his best, and the whole chosen arc was great to me. Season 4 just didn't have the "it" factor, along with season 1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mole 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 I just watched "Once More, With Feeling" again because I was bored, and I must say how amazing the episode is. Spoiler (Highlight to Read): Everything in this episode set up the season and somewhat for next season. Giles leaving. Buffy and Spike getting together. Xander and Anya not getting married. Tara and Willow breaking up, which leads to Willow going all dark. Dawn stealing stuff. The Scoobies finding out about Buffy being in heaven. Amazing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Youth N Asia 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Yeah..just write Dawn out completly and it would have been a flawless episode Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HarleyQuinn 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Hey now...Dawn danced pretty damn well so give her that much credit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlackFlagg 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Yeah, OMWF is an amazing episode....I know so many expected it to be just a filler piece with some singing and stuff but in typical Joss greatness it managed to take care of many plot points that would have been tough to do otherwise. Spoiler (Highlight to Read): especially Buffy having been in heaven, would have been tough to get that out in another way...they would have been able to of course but I don't think it would have been as big an impact. Only other ways I could really see it coming out would have been one of the scoobies overhearing Buffy talking to Spike or Spike just getting pissed and blurting it out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cavi 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 OMWF does indeed rule. One little bit that I always catch is during Dawn and Sweet's number, you can see Michelle not moving her lips at times whilst her vocal singing track is playing. And then during Buffy's number when Anya and Tara back her up, you can see Amber mess up in the background. Joss probably knew of that stuff though, as he has mentioned how they were extremely short on time when shooting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mole 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Plus the fact that the episode is 10 minutes longer than every other episode. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cavi 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Indeed. UPN got its props for allowing that to air in full. Recently, Marti said "Chosen" ran quite a bit longer than expected, so they ended up doing a decent amount of editing. I'd like to see, or at least read about the stuff that was cut from that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mole 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Maybe they'll put the full one on the DVD. I hope... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hank Kingsley 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 I think "Chosen" should've been a two-hour event in the first place. I mean, you're ending a series that's been running for seven years, you'd need at least that much time to tie up every single loose end. It'd also make the battle longer and more epic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mole 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Yes, they should of gotten rid of "Him" one of the worst episodes ever!!!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anakin Flair 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Spoiler (Highlight to Read): Buffy to Willow: "Tara's your girlfriend?" Giles drunk in background: "Bloody helllll" Yoko Factor owns! Xander said that line, not Buffy. Suprised nobody else caught that And I think you could consider "End of Days" and "Chosen" to be the big two-hour finale. It's just taht it was aired seperately, instead of back-to-back. And I LONG for season 7 on dvd. The commentaries and possible deleted scenes will be well worth the price. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anakin Flair 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Yes, they should of gotten rid of "Him" one of the worst episodes ever!!!!!!!! It was better than "Beer bad". Plus, Dawn as a cheerleader. Oh, and Buffy busts out the bazooka one more time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlackFlagg 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Just finished season 2, still get a bit misty at the end everytime Time to start on season 3...I'm preparing for the release of season 5 next week Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cavi 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 I think "Chosen" should've been a two-hour event in the first place. I mean, you're ending a series that's been running for seven years, you'd need at least that much time to tie up every single loose end. It'd also make the battle longer and more epic. I agree. I definitely would have liked a two hour event, similar to the premiere and finale of Season Six. I thought Caleb should have been in the final battle. He and Buffy should have had a big showdown. Instead, he jobbed out early on which I thought was fairly weaksauce. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlackFlagg 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 I agree. I definitely would have liked a two hour event, similar to the premiere and finale of Season Six. I thought Caleb should have been in the final battle. He and Buffy should have had a big showdown. Instead, he jobbed out early on which I thought was fairly weaksauce. I loved Caleb but I think it was a good way to show just how powerful the Scythe<sp?> was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mole 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 Yes, they should of gotten rid of "Him" one of the worst episodes ever!!!!!!!! It was better than "Beer bad". Plus, Dawn as a cheerleader. Oh, and Buffy busts out the bazooka one more time. Nope, "Him" was worse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HarleyQuinn 0 Report post Posted December 1, 2003 I'm agreeing with Mole... Spoiler (Highlight to Read): Buffy KOing Parker twice(IIRC) made Beer Bad even better Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted December 2, 2003 I don't get all the hate for "Him" I thought it was a funny episode and I marked out for the return of the Rocket Launcher...even though it was a one time use launcher and technically wouldn't work again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mole 0 Report post Posted December 2, 2003 It did nothing for the season, and was a waste of time. They could of used the episode to build up the storyarc even more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
