UBL must have jury trial

[Guest JMA]

Personally, I'd like to see him rot in a NYC prison. He'd get his ass beat EVERY SINGLE DAY by prisoners. I doubt the guards would stop them, either. Of course, this could potentially incite attacks on the prison itself but...

[bobobrazil1984 0]

He's obviously guilty, so where's the harm in having a public trial? Frankly, I'd love to be a part of that jury, to vote him guilty. The fact that we actually have trials is one of the things that makes american much better than those other countries. The trial would be over in five minutes anyways... drag in his LT that they caught in Pakistan... show the video(s) from al jazeera and that other video of him bragging about it... some of the other supposedly secret stuff that we have... wham, bam thank you maam. Done and guilty.

 

I mean jesus people, overreact much?

[Justice 0]

Everyone deserves a trial by jury. Everyone.

 

According to the UN it's a basic human right (see: United Nations' Declaration of Human Rights), and it only makes the United States of America look BETTER to put him to death after a fair trial. I don't understand why anyone would be AGAINST this, it's not like there's some legal loophole that F. Lee Bailey's gonna find to keep his ass from hanging.

See, I think it's stupid to suggest this because there is no possible way you could find an unbiased jury. Seriously, Joe off the street already knows Osama is guilty (And rightly so) and you'd have to absolutely scour the depths of Dearborn to find 12 people who actually liked him. You absolutely adore him or you want to crucify him. There's no point to a jury trial here. In all honesty, either give him a bench trial infront of the SCOTUS (Just forgo the months of appeallate courts dealing with him) or put him infront of a Military Tribunal (If it is good enough for our soldiers to be tried by it definitely should be good enough for Osama. I really never understood all the hub-bub and fear of these things...).

 

Personally, I'd like to see him rot in a NYC prison. He'd get his ass beat EVERY SINGLE DAY by prisoners. I doubt the guards would stop them, either. Of course, this could potentially incite attacks on the prison itself but...

 

In all likelihood he'd be put in a completely seperate block from the other inmates because of the violence that would occur. There's no way he'd be put with regular criminals, that's for sure. Personally I'd like to see a military prison built for the sheer purpose of holding these scumbags.

[Vern Gagne 0]

There is far too many risks to national security if Bin Laden is put on trial in public. Put him along with his cronies in front of a military tribunal.

[Vern Gagne 0]

Amazing.  A jury trial for Usama bin Laden indeed.  A terrorist piece of shit like him doesn't deserve any kind of a trial: he deserves to be executed at halftime of the Super Bowl and have his head mounted on a pike and paraded up and down the streets of NYC and DC.  At this point, I don't know if Dean will even get his party's nomination, and I would have considered him a lock a few weeks ago.

I hope Usama gets brought to justice as much as the next guy but killing him would only make him a Marytr.

Everyone in America is a target for terrorists, reguardless of what happens to Bin Laden. So if he's wiped out by a daisy cutter, hung from the gallows, or locked away in a dungeon for the rest of his life. We'll still be targets off the terrorists.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

See, I think it's stupid to suggest this because there is no possible way you could find an unbiased jury.

But that's what we're doing for Saddam! You do realize that's what Dean is talking about here, right? Taking him back to Afghanistan and getting a public trial there. Sure, he'll be found guilty, but it's the message that counts.

[Guest Breetai]

Refresh my memory, but exactly what proof do we have the OBL ACTUALLY masterminded the 9/11 attacks? I mean apart from public opinion and Bush's rhetoric.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Refresh my memory, but exactly what proof do we have the OBL ACTUALLY masterminded the 9/11 attacks? I mean apart from public opinion and Bush's rhetoric.

How about his own admission and video tapes?

[Guest SP-1]

Refresh my memory, but exactly what proof do we have the OBL ACTUALLY masterminded the 9/11 attacks? I mean apart from public opinion and Bush's rhetoric.

How about his own admission and video tapes?

No, silly! Everyone knows that those tapes are government generated tools of propaganda utilizing the superb acting talents of Brad Pitt and modern computer graphics technology. Osama's admissions are an American lie. He's a simple dirt farmer selected randomly to be the scapegoat for President Bush's cinema-like efforts to win the re-election.

 

CASE CLOZED LOL2004ELECTANYONEBUTBUSH!

 

. . .

[2GOLD 0]

Confession

Motive

Oppurtunity

 

....God, Sam Waterston And Elisabeth Rohm could slam dunk this case.

 

Which is why it'll be held in Afghanistan or Florida so they can screw it up and he'll be found not guilty and laugh his way all the way home while America gets pissed and blows up the UN.

 

The more I think about, the more I hope we don't catch him or shoot him. I'm starting to hope he hangs himself and makes himself out to be a coward.

[Styles 0]

The more I think about, the more I hope we don't catch him or shoot him. I'm starting to hope he hangs himself and makes himself out to be a coward.

Yeah, but capturing him alive could be essential for our intelligence, just like the interogations of Saddam have apparently led to more arrests...

[2GOLD 0]

The more I think about, the more I hope we don't catch him or shoot him. I'm starting to hope he hangs himself and makes himself out to be a coward.

Yeah, but capturing him alive could be essential for our intelligence, just like the interogations of Saddam have apparently led to more arrests...

 

Ok, we capture him and then he hangs himself in prison after we "talk" with him....without our knowledge...and we try hard to 'save his life' but he dies....by his own hand.

 

Yeah, yeah that's the ticket.

[teke184 0]

The more I think about, the more I hope we don't catch him or shoot him. I'm starting to hope he hangs himself and makes himself out to be a coward.

Yeah, but capturing him alive could be essential for our intelligence, just like the interogations of Saddam have apparently led to more arrests...

 

Ok, we capture him and then he hangs himself in prison after we "talk" with him....without our knowledge...and we try hard to 'save his life' but he dies....by his own hand.

 

Yeah, yeah that's the ticket.

I'm thinking he'll get the Dahmer treatment... which means he'll get life until someone beats him to death in the shower.

[Downhome 0]

Refresh my memory, but exactly what proof do we have the OBL ACTUALLY masterminded the 9/11 attacks? I mean apart from public opinion and Bush's rhetoric.

My God, just...I don't know how to respond to that.

[Guest BDC]

He's got to be taken alive to keep Al Qaeda from having a beloved-leader-turned-martyr figure. Take him before a military tribunal or something, convict him and if he commits suicide, he's not a martyr.

[Zorin Industries 0]

It is important, I think, to have a definite sense of justice being done. Everyone and their mother knows he is guilty, but if he is just taken out and hung then it can only inflame fanatics in the Middle East. I'd say he is far more useful dead than alive at the moment, in the sense that he could be used as a matyr.

 

I even wonder if a U.S. court would be the best way, as that could be seen by fanatics as the "Great Satan" butchering a heroic Muslim warrior, would some sort of internatinal court be better? I can understand how Americans would want it to be their right to dispense justice upon Osama, but in the long run, would a sense of international legitimacy be better?

[Firestarter 0]

This discussion is ridiculous.

 

1. The Moslem fanatics cannot hate us more than they do already. No measure you can propose will pacify them. None. You are a fool if you think otherwise.

 

2. The hatred of evil people isn't something to be avoided. It's something to be sought out, savored, and cherished.

 

3. UBL dead is far, far better than UBL alive. His "war" is a religious movement but there is also a cult of personality element to it. Shoot him in the head and he'll lose a lot of mystique as well as a lot of blood.

 

To hell with "international law," to hell with criminal justice, and to hell with all you bleating, ignorant, self-righteous Europeans. Criminal justice is for criminals. UBL is a declared enemy of the United States. We don't give such people show-trials and we don't lock them up. We kill them.

 

Remember Pearl Harbor? When the Japanese declared war on us, FDR didn't promise to bring the Emperor to justice. He promised to crush Japan.

 

Does that make you limp-wristed sissies feel all queasy? Are the French upset again by our unilateralisme? Are "progressives" across the continent appalled by the "barbarity" of our oh so terribly dreadful death penalties? Too goddamn bad. You don't have a say in what we do.

 

Now shut up and piss off.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

This discussion is ridiculous.

 

1. The Moslem fanatics cannot hate us more than they do already. No measure you can propose will pacify them. None. You are a fool if you think otherwise.

 

2. The hatred of evil people isn't something to be avoided. It's something to be sought out, savored, and cherished.

 

3. UBL dead is far, far better than UBL alive. His "war" is a religious movement but there is also a cult of personality element to it. Shoot him in the head and he'll lose a lot of mystique as well as a lot of blood.

 

To hell with "international law," to hell with criminal justice, and to hell with all you bleating, ignorant, self-righteous Europeans. Criminal justice is for criminals. UBL is a declared enemy of the United States. We don't give such people show-trials and we don't lock them up. We kill them.

 

Remember Pearl Harbor? When the Japanese declared war on us, FDR didn't promise to bring the Emperor to justice. He promised to crush Japan.

 

Does that make you limp-wristed sissies feel all queasy? Are the French upset again by our unilateralisme? Are "progressives" across the continent appalled by the "barbarity" of our oh so terribly dreadful death penalties? Too goddamn bad. You don't have a say in what we do.

 

Now shut up and piss off.

There's no justice in what you suggest- there never has been. It's all just a cry for revenge, made by someone far too emotionl about the subject for their opinion to mean much to me. You seem to be totally apathetic to the moral virtue of the actions of those fighting the War on Terror. Hell, if we implemented HALF of some of the more ridiculous suggestions you've spewed over the last two years then I'd actually see justification in another 9/11. You don't want the right thing done- you just want to see blood and it sickens my stomach to read more and more of your infantile coyboy bullshit.

 

Let justice be done, though the heavens may fall... and vengeance is NOT justice. Period. We would become no better than those who purpetrated the 9/11 attacks. We would become that which we fought against: terrorists and bullies who use our might to enforce our will without thought to the consequences that it would cause.

[Firestarter 0]

There's no justice in what you suggest- there never has been.

Nope. And there never was meant to be. This isn't about justice. This is about punishment for a terrible act which killed 3000 innocent people. Criminal justice procedures establish guilt, which is unnecessary. He's guilty. He's admitted it. He's gloried in it. Now he will suffer the ultimate punishment for his actions.

 

It's all just a cry for revenge

Nope. It's about punishment.

 

You seem to be totally apathetic to the moral virtue of the actions of those fighting the War on Terror.

And how do you reach this conclusion?

 

Hell, if we implemented HALF of some of the more ridiculous suggestions you've spewed over the last two years then I'd actually see justification in another 9/11.

Leaving aside the question of which of my "suggestions" you claim are "ridiculous," the fact that you believe anything could ever justify another 9/11 is adequate proof of your moral degeneracy.

 

You don't want the right thing done-

I certainly do. And the right thing will be done when UBL is shot in the head, repeatedly, with high-explosive rounds.

 

you just want to see blood and it sickens my stomach

Oh good. Have a lie down right next to little Jacques over there.

 

We would become no better than those who purpetrated the 9/11 attacks.

By killing terrorists? Laughable.

 

We would become that which we fought against: terrorists and bullies who use our might to enforce our will without thought to the consequences that it would cause.

Only, we're not attempting to enslave the world under the banner of Islam. We're killing evil people who want to enslave the world under the banner of Islam, we're freeing people from tyrants across the globe, and we're preventing other people from being murdered. And because we kill evil people in order to do this, you say we're the same as UBL. Lovely. Howard Dean should take lessons in moral blindness from you.

[Justice 0]

See, I think it's stupid to suggest this because there is no possible way you could find an unbiased jury.

But that's what we're doing for Saddam! You do realize that's what Dean is talking about here, right? Taking him back to Afghanistan and getting a public trial there. Sure, he'll be found guilty, but it's the message that counts.

But, you see, Osama didn't commit any crimes in Afganistan. What would you try him for there? This was a crime committed against the US, not Afganistan. Now the Taliban elite, okay. But Osama? Nuh-uh. He's our man. Otherwise you are just giving a flip at all the people who had family who died in 9/11 for a publicity stunt. Saddam committed his crimes against Iraqi citizens. He should be tried there. Osama committed crimes against the US. He should be tried here.

[Downhome 0]

Very few times have I read a post on a message board by someone that made me just want to go "Hell yeah, right fucking on.", but Cancer Marney just added to that short list.

[Justice 0]

You know, the more I think about it, I kinda wish Bush would do a speech, and at the end leave a little non-chalant footnote like "Oh yes, and we captured Osama Bin Laden yesterday in a cave on the Afganistan-Pakistan border. The Marine Captain who was in charge of the operation promptly took out his sidearm and put a bullet straight through his head. We'll be sending pictures out tomorrow. God bless America."

[sfaJack 0]

There's no justice in what you suggest- there never has been. It's all just a cry for revenge, made by someone far too emotionl about the subject for their opinion to mean much to me. You seem to be totally apathetic to the moral virtue of the actions of those fighting the War on Terror. Hell, if we implemented HALF of some of the more ridiculous suggestions you've spewed over the last two years then I'd actually see justification in another 9/11. You don't want the right thing done- you just want to see blood and it sickens my stomach to read more and more of your infantile coyboy bullshit.

 

Let justice be done, though the heavens may fall... and vengeance is NOT justice. Period. We would become no better than those who purpetrated the 9/11 attacks. We would become that which we fought against: terrorists and bullies who use our might to enforce our will without thought to the consequences that it would cause.

Whoa. You're delusional. You should head back to the Comics forum or something.

 

Marney is absolutely correct with her "sickening" rant.

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

You know, the more I think about it, I kinda wish Bush would do a speech, and at the end leave a little non-chalant footnote like "Oh yes, and we captured Osama Bin Laden yesterday in a cave on the Afganistan-Pakistan border. The Marine Captain who was in charge of the operation promptly took out his sidearm and put a bullet straight through his head. We'll be sending pictures out tomorrow. God bless America."

If he ever does that, I'd give him a standing ovation no matter where I was.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

You know, the more I think about it, I kinda wish Bush would do a speech, and at the end leave a little non-chalant footnote like "Oh yes, and we captured Osama Bin Laden yesterday in a cave on the Afganistan-Pakistan border. The Marine Captain who was in charge of the operation promptly took out his sidearm and put a bullet straight through his head. We'll be sending pictures out tomorrow. God bless America."

 

It would be, without a doubt, one of the greatest speeches ever.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

1. The Moslem fanatics cannot hate us more than they do already. No measure you can propose will pacify them. None. You are a fool if you think otherwise.

Which is why I've thought defense, not offense, it incredibly vital. Aside from slaughtering millions of Arabs and Muslims and wiping their civilization off the Earth (hello WW3,) there's no way to stop religious extremists. Whether they be Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Jewish, or Other.

 

3. UBL dead is far, far better than UBL alive. His "war" is a religious movement but there is also a cult of personality element to it. Shoot him in the head and he'll lose a lot of mystique as well as a lot of blood.

 

Name me a world tyrant who's death stopped the cycle of violence he was pitching. Hitler? Nazis still do exist in the world and anti-Semitism is much more evident. Saddam's capture hasn't shattered the resistance, and I can't imagine Al-Qaeda being unable to operate without Osama.

 

Criminal justice is for criminals. UBL is a declared enemy of the United States. We don't give such people show-trials and we don't lock them up. We kill them.

 

Unless they surrender, we do. And I thought a trial was the right idea here, as evidenced by Saddam?

 

Remember Pearl Harbor? When the Japanese declared war on us, FDR didn't promise to bring the Emperor to justice. He promised to crush Japan.

 

So, we need to kill lots of innocents and turn the Middle East into an isolated society (or one more isolated than it already is)? Wonderful.

 

(BTW, I'm not saying through this comment that the Japan bombing was a bad thing. In fact, I feel it was a necessary move. I'm saying, this is the aftereffects of it.)

 

Too goddamn bad. You don't have a say in what we do.

 

Now shut up and piss off.

 

K. Thanks for encouraging me to support somebody, ANYBODY else.

[teke184 0]

1. The Moslem fanatics cannot hate us more than they do already. No measure you can propose will pacify them. None. You are a fool if you think otherwise.

Which is why I've thought defense, not offense, it incredibly vital. Aside from slaughtering millions of Arabs and Muslims and wiping their civilization off the Earth (hello WW3,) there's no way to stop religious extremists. Whether they be Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Jewish, or Other.

 

3. UBL dead is far, far better than UBL alive. His "war" is a religious movement but there is also a cult of personality element to it. Shoot him in the head and he'll lose a lot of mystique as well as a lot of blood.

 

Name me a world tyrant who's death stopped the cycle of violence he was pitching. Hitler? Nazis still do exist in the world and anti-Semitism is much more evident. Saddam's capture hasn't shattered the resistance, and I can't imagine Al-Qaeda being unable to operate without Osama.

 

Saddam gets the privelage of a trial because he was the leader of a sovereign nation instead of a common terrorist.

 

Bin Laden is an admitted head of a multi-national terrorist organization and has taken credit for many actions against the US and its people including 9/11. If we find him, he'll be lucky to still be living after we "debrief" him and get as much info as possible out of him. He's already a martyr in some ways to his people, so his death won't really polarize his followers THAT much more.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

But, you see, Osama didn't commit any crimes in Afganistan.

He ran an international terror organization and had terrorist training camps. What's more illegal than that?

 

This was a crime committed against the US, not Afganistan.

 

Try to remember that Osama has actually done more in his life than 9/11. This is part of the problem in these debates: People who are so full of self-pity they can't see the forest for the trees and concentrate the big picture.

 

Saddam committed his crimes against Iraqi citizens.

 

Saddam (or his regime, at least) killed Americans, too.

[teke184 0]

But, you see, Osama didn't commit any crimes in Afganistan.

He ran an international terror organization and had terrorist training camps. What's more illegal than that?

 

This was a crime committed against the US, not Afganistan.

 

Try to remember that Osama has actually done more in his life than 9/11. This is part of the problem in these debates: People who are so full of self-pity they can't see the forest for the trees and concentrate the big picture.

OK... after we get Bin Laden, we'll let the Aussies have a shot at him too. I think they're still a little pissed about Bali.

 

As for Afghanistan and Bin Laden, what he did was APPROVED by the Taliban, who were the legal rulers of the country at the time, so he technically didn't commit crimes against Afghanistan.

[Firestarter 0]

I've thought defense, not offense, it incredibly vital.

Neither will work without the other.

 

Aside from slaughtering millions of Arabs and Muslims and wiping their civilization off the Earth (hello WW3,) there's no way to stop religious extremists

There certainly is: exactly what we're doing now. Making it self-destructive for foreign governments to support, sanction, or hide the extremists, and making it beneficial for them to cooperate with us.

 

Name me a world tyrant who's death stopped the cycle of violence he was pitching. Hitler? Nazis still do exist in the world and anti-Semitism is much more evident

Are you seriously trying to claim that anti-Semitism today has WORSE effects than Auschwitz and Treblinka? However bad it is now (and it is pretty bad) it's at least 6 million times better than it was in 1945.

 

Saddam's capture hasn't shattered the resistance, and I can't imagine Al-Qaeda being unable to operate without Osama.

No one is saying that killing or capturing one evil individual is the ace of trumps. I'm saying that it HELPS.

 

I thought a trial was the right idea here, as evidenced by Saddam?

Different people, different victims, different decisions.

 

So, we need to kill lots of innocents and turn the Middle East into an isolated society

And you read this where?

 

(BTW, I'm not saying through this comment that the Japan bombing was a bad thing. In fact, I feel it was a necessary move. I'm saying, this is the aftereffects of it.)

Some more of the "aftereffects" are that Japan is a peaceful democracy with a sound economy and an educated people, their neighbours don't have to worry about their militaristic adventures, they don't treat their women quite as badly anymore, and they willingly help us stabilise the region rather than trying to tyrannise it and butcher civilians just for fun.

 

K. Thanks for encouraging me to support somebody, ANYBODY else.

I'm not running for any office. If you were referring to the President ("ANYBODY else") I don't think you were too likely to vote for him in the first place, but you should read the disclaimer in my profile anyway. It's reproduced below for your convenience.

 

"I am an employee of the United States government. However, all views I express in this forum are solely my own, and should not be construed as an official position in any context."