From RandyOrton.net about Raw match....

[Guest Ghettoman]

I checked my e-mail like I do every tuesday when i get home off the road, and saw how many of my friends and relatives were questioning whether or not i was legitimatly hurt during my match with Rob last night (1/12/04) on RAW.well, for those who are interested here is what occured. Within 3 mintes into the match RVD threw me into the ring post while on the floor, normally I would get my hands up in time to soften the impact, but if you watch it in slow motion, youll see one hand was too low and one to high. I cracked the top of my forehead on the post, leaving a cut that needed 10 stitches, and lots of sweeling. I have been knocked out before, and I was definitly knocked goofy, but not unconcious. I was however disoriented enough were I had trouble with balance and vision. During the commercial break I was pretty much inoperable but with about 30 seconds before the break was up, I had this sudden adrenaline rush, and with a few deep breaths I started to gain some perception back. Now I would like to comment on RVDs performance . He is the reason that match was able to go on. We had 20 minutes for that match. 3 minutes after the bell rang, I was in a state were I didnt quite know what was going on. Rob showed what a Ring General he was, by talking me threw the rest of the 17 minutes of that match.I hate "exposing" the buisness like this, but I feel that as fans, you should hear this so that you can see how difficult our trade can be, and possibly enjoy and respect it more then you do already.

 

I was down on RVD for his shitty selling and typical akward miscommunications, not for busting him open, but I figure some would be interested.

[Guest Anglesault]

Looks like Randy is passing the blame for that boring match.

 

Can't say that I blame him

[Guest Ghettoman]

Passing the blame for a boring match!? :/

 

Does anyone watch the matches anymore, or just see a spot they don't like and write the rest off as crap by default?

[AndrewTS 0]

I thought this was interesting as well:

 

Rob showed what a Ring General he was, by talking me threw the rest of the 17 minutes of that match.

 

Rob called the match?!

[OldSchoolWrestling 0]

Looks like Randy has a bit of a spelling problem. He'd fit in great here.

[Guest Boomer Sprinklespax]

I thought the match was pretty good, considering the participants.

[Guest Monday Night Jericho]

Rob showed what a Ring General he was

 

So, I take it Randy has a concussion.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Looks like AS is in denial.

 

I watched that match twice and both times thought Randy carried it. I guess this is just Randy being generous towards Rob.

[Guest Ghettoman]

Maybe we're just somehow confused considering the only time the match was good or interesting Orton was in control, and everytime RVD was pushing things a long the match became bland and nothing irregular?

 

Is that possible?

[2GOLD 0]

Rob is the most experienced wrestler of the two, of course he was the freakin ring general.

 

And if I'm reading this right, RVD literally had a match with a blind man and managed to make it a damn good match.

 

Both of them deserve props and I'd like to see these two work together again. They have had two good matches with each other and a feud for the IC title with the face (RVD) winning and it would allow Randy to show off his ability in the ring would set him up for a run at the RAW title.

 

I still think Randy is a piece of crap and I don't like him, but I give him and RVD props for that.

[Guest Anglesault]

Looks like AS is in denial.

 

I deny that the match entertained me

 

I maintain that there was no reason for that extremely loose leg scissors to be applied three or four times with no pay off.

 

I don't think it's entirely Orton's fault. Rob isn't that good either.

 

The match was **, IMO

[NYU 0]

Looks like AS is in denial.

 

I watched that match twice and both times thought Randy carried it. I guess this is just Randy being generous towards Rob.

......

 

.....the man says it himself that RVD carried the match. Just because Van Dam might have told Randy when to start on his offense doesn't mean Orton carried it. He just said he had a concussion, and needed RVD to guide him!! If you liked the match, give Van Dam his props. If you didn't, don't. But don't say that Orton is wrong and he must have carried the match even though he was legitimately dizzy! Keep in mind that Van Dam has been in this business for YEARS. I think at this point he KNOWS how to wrestle a match, and can carry it if asked to. However I'm not shocked....the RVD-hate continues among certain posters around here.

[Guest Ghettoman]

Because the hold wasn't rock solid your down on the whole match? How about just how the leg scissors played into the match? Does that not matter? I mean you say no pay off, yet your ignoring 2 things, for anyone looking for payoff, 5-star becomes imobile. For anyone realizing a payoff wasn't neccesary for a hold used during a sequence focused on nothing but wearing RVD down as quickly and as feircly as possible, it was great, because it was well worked and there was actually a progression with what he worked into the hold itself, something I can't even remember seeing in the WWE.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Rob showed what a Ring General he was, by talking me threw the rest of the 17 minutes of that match

 

That may explain why it was so bad. What it doesn't explain is why Orton was seemingly outperforming RVD.

[Guest Ghettoman]

Carrying a match suggests one man through otherwise match hurting conditions(bad opponent, opponent with injury) pushed it along to something good.

 

RVD probably did a lot of the communicating, but the only time the match was noteworthy was when Orton was in control, pacing it himself.

 

To say RVD carried the match is silly, because it would really have to be something good for that. And if your saying he did carry it, thats not really a compliment considering he only carried it to a little under *** and his opponent was fantastic.

[razazteca 0]

HHH had a ************ match with a 2x4 pallet splinter in his leg. Randy Orton is no HHH.

[NYU 0]

Rob showed what a Ring General he was, by talking me threw the rest of the 17 minutes of that match

 

That may explain why it was so bad. What it doesn't explain is why Orton was seemingly outperforming RVD.

Nearly anytime, the person that gets the majority of the offense in a match looks the best.

 

But then again, you're Van Dam-Hater #1, so I'm not expecting you to be too objective.

[Guest Ghettoman]

No, it's when there good on offense, which Randy was. If you split the match and compare both men on offense, Orton was by far the better of the two.

[Guest Anglesault]

Because the hold wasn't rock solid your down on the whole match?

I really didn't enjoy seeing a hold that Rob CLEARLY could have wiggled out of being employed multiple times for good chunks of time so the match could end with a DDT.

 

 

That's one of

the reasons I hate that disaster of a first Brock/Cena match in 02.

 

Brock just kept a move that was SO loose on for SO long and finished it with a move that never required 8 minutes of rib work.

[NYU 0]

No, it's when there good on offense, which Randy was. If you split the match and compare both men on offense, Orton was by far the better of the two.

But you're forgetting about everything else. You're forgetting that Orton was probably told to center many of his moves on the ribs and add these submissions to the match. You're forgetting that Orton says HIMSELF that Van Dam had to help him through it, which means telling him when to do certain spots, when to grab offense back, etc. If Orton was as knocked dizzy as he says he was, Van Dam had a HUGE part in that match. But people look past that.

 

Orton's moves looked good...? If we're to understand what he wrote, RVD told him when to execute the moves. And the leg scissors looked good? Personally, I thought it exposed that nothing was actually HAPPENING in the match, but to each their own.

 

What exactly did Orton add to the match? That psycho look at the end? Yeah, he was fine that night. He's an okay worker. RVD brought him to an okay match. Orton ADMITS RVD brought him to an okay match. But let's continue to bash RVD anyway. I fail to see the logic in this.

[Jack_Bauer 0]

The match was arguably one of Randy Orton's best singles matches with WWE, and it was Rob Van Dam that carried him to it. Interesting really, and goes to show that maybe Orton isn't as good as I thought he was.

[2GOLD 0]

I think Rob needed to hit the 5 star to make the rib work really show any impact but maybe the injury to Randy forced them to switch up the plan.

 

I'm praising both of them and I really do not like Orton at all.

 

But with the additional knowledge, people are saying RVD must really suck if he only could carry a dizzy man to a *** match???

[Guest Anglesault]

The match was arguably one of Randy Orton's best singles matches with WWE,

I would have to agree.

 

Still a ** match.

[Guest Ray]

HHH had a ************ match with a 2x4 pallet splinter in his leg.

[CanadianChick 0]

Weird. I could of swore I saw Randy blade. Ah, well.

 

Regarding the match, I thought it was pretty good (probably Orton's best match), but the restholds were a little too long. Now I guess I can see why they were so long. Strange how argueably Orton's best match is one where is wasn't exactly fully there.

[NoCalMike 0]

Orton was basically out on his feet for 90% of the match. Then he goes and ADMITS that RVD was feeding him everything to do in the match including his own offense, yet somehow, "Orton carried the match"?? Come on you guys are stretching a lot here. Orton has had 2 good matches since he has been in WWE, and they were both with RVD. So RVD must be doing SOMETHING right in these matches, hell just ask Orton......

 

If you watch the match again, it is not that hard to see RVD walking Orton through the match once he gets hurt. RVD is basically telling Orton what to do every two minutes or so. RVD had to pick up the slack and he did. I could only imagine if this match would have been with some of the assholes in that lockerroom that would have given up and just settled for a shit match. Or how about had this match been Orton/HBK and the same thing happens and Orton wrote the same thing about HBK and everyone snowed in their shorts over how GREAT HBK was for getting Orton through the match and actually getting a good match out of it.

[AndrewTS 0]

I'm surprised they would have the match go the full length with that happening. I'd expect them to cut it short, or make it an impromptu tag match.

 

I haven't exactly seen the match in question, but opinions are varying wildly on it. Although maybe my belief that Orton and RVD both really suck is somewhat inaccurate.

 

Still, if AS isn't exaggerating about the rest holds, maybe not. I don't really mind some rest holds in a 20 minute match though.

It's matches that are 5 minutes and full of resting that I have a problem with.

 

Oh, Happy Birthday, CanadianChick.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Orton has had 2 good matches since he has been in WWE, and they were both with RVD.

His matches with HBK were better than his matches with RVD, IMO.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Strange how argueably Orton's best match is one where is wasn't exactly fully there.

That's what I thought, myself.

 

Anyway, how is AS in denial when Ghettoman is stating that Orton carried the match when Orton freely says that RVD led him along, even calling him a ring general?

[2GOLD 0]

You have to ask yourself what is worst then

 

Having one of, if not you best match when you were knocked so far out of it you weren't really aware what you were doing. Or admitting that you were carried by RVD.

 

That's the other big question.