HTM slams Flair on his website

[Guest JMA]

Dear HTM,

 

Since you are a wrestler, you seem to be a natural choice for me to direct this question to. I have been watching wrestling since I was born, and have seen many great skilled and entertaining athletes. I predominately grew up watching the WWF but I occasionally watched the NWA (and later the WCW). During this time period the Apter mags and later on several internet sources have been screaming how great Flair is and how great a technical wrestler he is.

 

I have seen older Ric Flair matches and was not impressed at all, so I figured I would buy his new three disc DVD to see if I perhaps was missing something. Sadly, I am now out $25 dollars, and my opinion has stayed the same. He is far from a great wrestler. How is he a technical wizard? Through most of his matches he is constantly chopping his opponents, as opposed to punching them. Does this qualify as great technical wrestling? I have seen my baby cousin fall down and take harder bumps than him, and she found no reason to do a blade job.

 

His talked about cage match with Harley Race from Starcade is on the DVD, and I was disappointed with that as well. Many internet sites scream about how great the finish of the match was, when Ric Flair did a flying body press on Harley Race. It looked like he screwed it up since he did not land directly on Race and it looked like he just kind of knocked him over. Vince McMahon would fire or have long talk with one of his wrestlers if a finish like that was botched. His best move on the DVD is when he hip tossed Rick Steamboat in one of their matches, but is was not good because Ric executed it right, rather because Rick Steamboat sold it like he had been shot.

 

I know I am not the only person who feels that Ric Flair is overrated. Bret Hart even said after he beat Flair for his first WWF world title, that he was disappointed with Flair. This is likely because he has had much better matches with true technical wrestlers before this like Shawn Michaels, Mike Rotundo, and Rick Martell. I know I am slamming his legacy with this email, but I will leave you with this question for you to ponder: Since the NWA was nowhere near as popular as the WWF in the 1980's, how many wrestling fans think Ric Flair is a great wrestler because they have witnessed his matches, compared to those that think Ric Flair is a great wrestler because some internet Smark site said he was a great wrestler.

 

Moonbaby

 

Thank you for those fine comments and wise insight. I could not have said it any better than you have just written. Flair has always been able to get the wrestling mags, bookers, and promoters to think he was something special in and out of the ring. All his matches are the same from the walk down the aisle until he leaves the ring.

 

Flair could not carry Harley Race's jock strap nor could he come close to working like the Funks, Jack Brisco, or Nick Bockwinkle. Flair had a free ride from the Crocketts' bookers. Ole Anderson, George Scott, and even the over inflated ego Dusty Rhodes were some of the people who pushed Flair when there was much better talent on hand. Why WWE keeps him around is beyond me. He is dog shit as far as I am concerned.

 

Whooooo where are we partying tonight Arn?

 

Till we meet again,

Adios

[Guest Coffey]

Truthfully, I'm not that impressed with the Ric Flair DVD either.

 

I can, however, see the psychology in the matches.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Flair isn't nearly as bad as that e-mail or HTM would like to say. He isn't the God everyone makes him out to be. Its in the middle.

 

His DVD owned because it was a chance to see guys like Harley Race, Barry Windham, Steamboat and Terry Funk. But something has to be said about how Flair put on magnificent matches with those guys too.

[TheFranchise 0]

The greatest IC Champion of all time < The greatest world champion of all time.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Nothing really new said here in terms of anti-flair sentiment. Though it sorta warms my heart to hear it said as a Hogan mark

[Guest OSIcon]

Calling Shawn Michaels a true technical wrestler doesn't exactly make me think this guy has the best eye for wrestling talent. Making the indirect statement that Rotunda is a better wrestler also doesn't help.

 

When it comes to pure wrestling skills (as in holds and moves) Flair certainly doesn't rank near the top of the list. If you are looking for that in a Flair match, then you definitely are going to be disappointed. However, the work in his matches is still top notch. He is always doing something to fill time (sometimes that filler work is really smart, sometimes it isn't, but it still beats not knowing how to fill up a match at all), his stamina in his prime was nearly unmatchable, he was a fine storyteller, could work with a lot of different wrestlers, brought a lot of character into the ring, and many more positives.

 

His use of holds and different moves were limited, but I hardly think that qualifies him as bad. I think this guy had seen very little Flair and was expecting for him to take it to the mat, trading holds in all of his matches. Flair has never been about that so if that is what he was expecting, I can see his disappointment.

 

As for HTM - - I am a believer that if you aren't recognized as being as good as someone, you just keep your mouth shut in public about how you perceive their skills, because it just makes you look bitter and jealous.

[NoCalMike 0]

Flair has IT. And IT usually carries you a lot farther in the business then wrestling skills. I do agree about Flair being highly overrated as far as overall wrestling skills, since for about the last 15 years, Flair hasn't done one thing different in a match.

[Dr. Zoidberg 0]

who's HTM?

[Golgo 13 0]

...

 

Honky Tonk Man.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

Honkey Tonk Man just needs to shuddap. All he's good for now is going into the RR and getting a guitar over his head.

[Guest Your Olympic Hero]

The greatest IC Champion of all time < The greatest world champion of all time.

Took the words out of my mouth. Fuck HTM... he was given a free ride as IC champ due to Butch Reed no-showing when he was supposed to win the belt. Other than that he would just be another jobber.

[Mole 0]

HTM just rambles his mouth all the time. He is just jealous of Flair.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Honky Tonk Man: I can wrestle circle's around Ric Flair!

 

Random Wrestling Fan: I don't remember you in ONE good match. Care to enlighten us?

 

Honky Tonk Man: Fuck the internet! They don't know wrestling....Jerry Lawler sucks! HAHAHA! Praise Hogan for getting me jobs I don't disserve.

[KTID 0]

Honky's absolutely spot on with this one.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Honky's absolutely spot on with this one.

You bash Flair, yet you quote Bret Hart. I like Bret Hart too but he's even more predictable with his FIVE MOVES OF DOOM and wrestles the same match all the time unless his opponent sucks that bad.

[Highland 0]

Is Flair overrated? Yes.

Does he suck? No.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

The greatest IC Champion of all time

 

It kinda sickens me how HTM likes to call himself that since he basically got a free ride with the title for that long. I can name a dozen former IC champions that would be better nominees for the label.

 

*goes to watch SS '88

 

It saddens me how Bret, one of my all-time favorites, belittled his match against Flair. They went 26 minutes and I thought it was a great match. I never saw the Souled Out bout so I don't know if that was any better or not.

[TheFranchise 0]

I never saw the Souled Out bout so I don't know if that was any better or not.

Me neither, but if it was worse, than you can wait for the Rise and Fall of WCW/Monday Night Wars to come out, as it'd be one of multiple matches showing how Bret Hart killed WCW.

[Mole 0]

Is Flair overrated? Yes.

Does he suck? No.

It seems every good wrestler is overrated.

[Guest Anglesault]

The greatest IC Champion of all time

 

It kinda sickens me how HTM likes to call himself that since he basically got a free ride with the title for that long. I can name a dozen former IC champions that would be better nominees for the label.

Who?

 

I'd say that Honky brought a secondary belt to as much importance as it possibly can get.

[Mole 0]

Bret Hart gave the belt some importance.

[Guest Anglesault]

Bret Hart gave the belt some importance.

Not at the level of HTM.

 

When you're at the point that an arena would take the popcorn vendor as champion just to take the belt away from the guy-when it's not even the major belt- you have gold.

 

Like, for instance, no one cares right now about the IC champ, so no one will care when he finally loses it.

 

When you can get people to care that much about who the IC champ is, you've done your job.

[Slayer 0]

Bret Hart gave the belt some importance.

Not at the level of HTM.

 

When you're at the point that an arena would take the popcorn vendor as champion just to take the belt away from the guy-when it's not even the major belt- you have gold.

 

Like, for instance, no one cares right now about the IC champ, so no one will care when he finally loses it.

 

When you can get people to care that much about who the IC champ is, you've done your job.

Unfortunately, it proved HTM to be a one-trick-pony, since as soon as the belt came off his waist, his commodity dropped into the outhouse

[Guest Ray]

true technical wrestlers .........Shawn Michaels

 

 

 

Holy shit, this guy's fucking stupid.

 

Judging wrestlers by the number of "technical" moves they do is pure idiocy.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

true technical wrestlers .........Shawn Michaels

 

 

 

Holy shit, this guy's fucking stupid.

 

Judging wrestlers by the number of "technical" moves they do is pure idiocy.

I guess that can make any Indy guy a ***** wrestler. Note to Honky Tonk Man: Talent, which is what he's lacked his entire career, doesn't make someone great. It's how to work a match, wrestling & emotion wise, by telling a story. Ric Flair excells at that.

 

And yes, my grammer lacks now and then.

[Guest JMA]

Bret Hart gave the belt some importance.

Not at the level of HTM.

 

When you're at the point that an arena would take the popcorn vendor as champion just to take the belt away from the guy-when it's not even the major belt- you have gold.

 

Like, for instance, no one cares right now about the IC champ, so no one will care when he finally loses it.

 

When you can get people to care that much about who the IC champ is, you've done your job.

Unfortunately, it proved HTM to be a one-trick-pony, since as soon as the belt came off his waist, his commodity dropped into the outhouse

Indeed. The cowardly heel schtick can only go so far.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Who?

 

Pat Patterson

Randy Savage

Ricky Steamboat

Bret Hart

Shawn Michaels

The British Bulldog

Mr. Perfect

Chris Jericho

Chris Benoit

The Rock

Razor Ramon

and even Jeff Jarrett

 

All > HTM

[Guest JMA]

Who?

 

Pat Patterson

Randy Savage

Ricky Steamboat

Bret Hart

Shawn Michaels

The British Bulldog

Mr. Perfect

Chris Jericho

Chris Benoit

The Rock

Razor Ramon

and even Jeff Jarrett

 

All > HTM

The man has a point.

 

I enjoyed Honky's schtick, but he has no right to call Flair "dog shit." That's crossing the line.

[cynicalprofit 0]

I find it funny how HTM says something nice about Harely after what Dynamite Kid said he said about Harely in his book....but then again if Dynamite wanted to kill me, I'd probably go along with anything he asked.

[godthedog 0]

Honky's absolutely spot on with this one.

You bash Flair, yet you quote Bret Hart. I like Bret Hart too but he's even more predictable with his FIVE MOVES OF DOOM and wrestles the same match all the time unless his opponent sucks that bad.

okay, THIS is sheer stupidity. i assume you've seen the following matches:

 

bret v. bulldog, summerslam 92

bret v. mr perfect, KOR 93

bret v. owen, summerslam 94

bret v. diesel, survivor series 95

bret v. austin, WM 13

 

take in that list for a second.

 

...

 

good. hopefully, you've reached the conclusion that these matches essentially ARE NOTHING ALIKE. there is quite a bit more variety in bret's body of work than there is in flair's.