Rap: Why does it get such a bad "rap " around here

[Slayer 0]

Outkast = exception, not rule

[Guest Boomer Sprinklespax]

I also happen to think that both Nappy Roots and the Roots are pretty good, though they get played more on MTV2. MTV2 rules most of the time, IMO. Subterranean is the shit.

[Guest El Satanico]

Of course there's some good mainstream artists. There's always some good stuff in the mainstream scene, but it's almost always in the minority.

[Guest El Satanico]

I don't really even think current mainstream rap is that bad. Artists like Outkast, Missy Elliot, Timbaland, Jay Z, The Neptunes, and Sean Paul are all doing creative things, and producing a lot of good music. Right now is a pretty damn good time for mainstream music, excluding rock.

Sean Paul? I don't agree with that one. I don't see anything special about him. The only reason he sticks out is the accent, which I have doubts about it being real. Does he have the accent when talking?

 

I personally dislike Missy Elliot and Jay-Z, but I'll give you them.

[razazteca 0]

Shaggy is the fake as for Sean Paul is questionable.

[ant_7000 0]

Rap gets a bad "rap" because of MTV. That's why. The truly good rappers aren't "pushed" (yes, I'm going to use wrestling terms) in the mainstream because their topics are either taboo or too heavy, and the ones with the push are the kind that the least common denominator (read: suburban white girls) will like. Just like how you see the worst rock bands on MTV and hear the worst rock bands on the radio, there are plenty of amazing rock bands that never get MTV or radio exposure.

You hit the nail on the head. The truly good rappers don't get the exposure if their subject matter isn't materialistic or they have anti-establishment messages in their songs. I hate when Nelly's, Chingy's, and the Sambo (Snoop) Dogg's get all the airplay when they don't deserve it, but radio can't give the Little Brother's, The Mos Def's, and Immortal Technique's any airplay because they don't fit the "image" of rap is supposed to be, and the latter I mentioned lyrics might go over the casual rap fans head.

 

Some Mainstream Rappers I do like Outkast, Jay-Z, and DMX. There's a misconception with non rap fans who are Rock fans that argue "Pick u a Guitar" bullshit, some rappers DO PLAY INSTRUMENTS Wyclef plays guitar, Andre 3000 plays bass, Ghostface plays Piano, and The Roots is a rap band, yes a turntable is a instrument. Plus the fact that Rap isn't based on instruments its supposed based on Lyrics thats what seperates its self from Rock. I like to see a Rocker Freestyle without writing one verse.

 

I also believe that Label execs controls a rappers content on subject matter, Label exec might hear Rapper A song and its a hit and then tells Rapper B that he should do a song like Rapper A has. When some rappers say they have to "dumb down" their lyrics so they can appeal to the suburbanites who go out by their albums, thats what they mean by that. Record execs could care less about who can or can't rap they just care about who sells. Also theres some racial undertones that the record labels only promote which some that I blame on rappers too.

[Steviekick 0]

Sure, Agent prefers the grindcore and Thumbtack the black metal and baron the power metal and me the thrash

I call doom metal

Awww, what the fuck do I get now?

 

Fine, I'll take Love Metal.

Hair metal?

Hey..you guys left me out...

 

in the 2003 TSM Metal Draft, Steviekick picks...

 

[The Metal Maniac 0]

Plus the fact that Rap isn't based on instruments its supposed based on Lyrics

 

I think that alone is probably what causes the rift between metal/rock and rap more then anything else.

 

People who listen to metal/rock music generally tend to listen for the music involved in it. The guitars, the riffs, all that jazz.

 

With rap, it's the exact opposite. The music is secondary to the lyrics. So obviously, you're going to have two very different fanbases.

 

That's how I see it, anyway.

[Steviekick 0]

I also believe that Label execs controls a rappers content on subject matter, Label exec might hear Rapper A song and its a hit and then tells Rapper B that he should do a song like Rapper A has. When some rappers say they have to "dumb down" their lyrics so they can appeal to the suburbanites who go out by their albums, thats what they mean by that. Record execs could care less about who can or can't rap they just care about who sells. Also theres some racial undertones that the record labels only promote which some that I blame on rappers too.

Dumbing down your lyrics is something that rappers admit about to make money.

 

Jay Z even admits it in "Moment of Clarity"

Music business hate me cause the industry ain't make me

Hustlers and boosters embrace me and the music I be makin

I dumbed down for my audience to double my dollars

They criticized me for it yet they all yell "HOLLA!"

If skills sold, truth be told, I'd probably be

lyrically, Talib Kweli

[Steviekick 0]

Plus the fact that Rap isn't based on instruments its supposed based on Lyrics

 

I think that alone is probably what causes the rift between metal/rock and rap more then anything else.

 

People who listen to metal/rock music generally tend to listen for the music involved in it. The guitars, the riffs, all that jazz.

 

With rap, it's the exact opposite. The music is secondary to the lyrics. So obviously, you're going to have two very different fanbases.

 

That's how I see it, anyway.

That is a good analysis of the lyrics/music paradox between rap and rock.

[ant_7000 0]

I also believe that Label execs controls a rappers content on subject matter, Label exec might hear Rapper A song and its a hit and then tells Rapper B that he should do a song like Rapper A has. When some rappers say they have to "dumb down" their lyrics so they can appeal to the suburbanites who go out by their albums, thats what they mean by that. Record execs could care less about who can or can't rap they just care about who sells. Also theres some racial undertones that the record labels only promote which some that I blame on rappers too.

Dumbing down your lyrics is something that rappers admit about to make money.

 

Jay Z even admits it in "Moment of Clarity"

Music business hate me cause the industry ain't make me

Hustlers and boosters embrace me and the music I be makin

I dumbed down for my audience to double my dollars

They criticized me for it yet they all yell "HOLLA!"

If skills sold, truth be told, I'd probably be

lyrically, Talib Kweli

Jay-z also said after the Talib Kweli line. Jay-z: Truthfully I want to rhyme like Common Sense/but I did 5 mil/So I aint been rapping like Common Sense/If you have that in common in sense/you say fuck perception and go with what makes sense. And what he meant about it he just going with what works so if it aint broken don't fix it.

[ant_7000 0]

Plus the fact that Rap isn't based on instruments its supposed based on Lyrics

 

I think that alone is probably what causes the rift between metal/rock and rap more then anything else.

 

People who listen to metal/rock music generally tend to listen for the music involved in it. The guitars, the riffs, all that jazz.

 

With rap, it's the exact opposite. The music is secondary to the lyrics. So obviously, you're going to have two very different fanbases.

 

That's how I see it, anyway.

True. There's a rift between fans who some just make blanket statements on what they see on tv, instead of doing research on the genres artists.

[DangerousDamon 0]

Plus the fact that Rap isn't based on instruments its supposed based on Lyrics

 

I think that alone is probably what causes the rift between metal/rock and rap more then anything else.

 

People who listen to metal/rock music generally tend to listen for the music involved in it. The guitars, the riffs, all that jazz.

 

With rap, it's the exact opposite. The music is secondary to the lyrics. So obviously, you're going to have two very different fanbases.

 

That's how I see it, anyway.

True. There's a rift between fans who some just make blanket statements on what they see on tv, instead of doing research on the genres artists.

I agree with you on that

[Henry Spencer 0]

Sean Paul? I don't agree with that one. I don't see anything special about him. The only reason he sticks out is the accent, which I have doubts about it being real. Does he have the accent when talking?

 

Sean Paul is more of a guilty pleasure of mine than someone who actually has much talent. I just think his accent, which is real as far as I can tell, works perfectly with his style of music.

[Henry Spencer 0]

And also, I absolutely cannot stand DMX. He used to be decent, but now he's terrible.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I tend to stay out of rap discussions because I don't listen to it or know anything about it. It's not so much that I'm particularly biased against the genre itself, it's just a matter of taste with me. I try not to piss in anyone's cheerios about it though, because the arguments thrown against rap are even more annoying than "You can't understand what metal singers are saying."

 

Rapping well is harder than hell, though. I can't do it, and I can play most any musical instrument I've ever picked up to some degree.

[Guest Ghettoman]

First off half of america has yet to realize music will ultimately come down to preference, not a level of quality.

 

Secondly, the most prominent rappers do all they can to further every stereotype attached, so now that it's a trend you get so much repetition and not enough diversity. There's only so many times people can here about "the thug life" and "bitches and hoes" before they want to vomit, and the rap world hit that mark years ago.

 

So it's not entirely right to generalize by what you see, but you can't take all the blame considering the ratio of rap acts furthering the stereotype to those trying to counter it is about 10:1.

[ant_7000 0]

First off half of america has yet to realize music will ultimately come down to preference, not a level of quality.

 

Secondly, the most prominent rappers do all they can to further every stereotype attached, so now that it's a trend you get so much repetition and not enough diversity. There's only so many times people can here about "the thug life" and "bitches and hoes" before they want to vomit, and the rap world hit that mark years ago.

 

So it's not entirely right to generalize by what you see, but you can't take all the blame considering the ratio of rap acts furthering the stereotype to those trying to counter it is about 10:1.

I blame the Record labels and the rappers for promoting stereotypical music, Record companies are going promote stereotypes and gimmicks and if you don't fall under those catergeories you won't get no kind of promotion. Its like you have to get shot, sold drugs, and serve time in jail as part of your bio to get put on in the industry. I think black rappers only live up to stereotypes because they're getting paid more money to do so and they are getting controlled by execs, White Rappers seemed to have more leeway when it comes to creative control and subject matter.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

That's the same kind of lament with nu metal. Only angsty pop vocals, distorted drop d chugs, a radio hook, and substance abuse references. The latter two are forever a part of music, but the first two are pretty annoying when presented the way they are.

[Perfxion 0]

I think the biggest problem people on this board have with rap is the fact that all they hear is these words in every song MTV plays:

 

Ice, Bling, guns, money, drugs, rims, dubs, "High priced drinks, cars, clothes".

 

The next problem is that songs like "One Mic" get ignored in the mainstream but everyone is ready to bash rap for shit like Nelly. But complain about rap being too "Thugish" yet ignore Nelly for making party songs. Another problem is that people who are the loudest about hating rap also are the dumbest. I read atleast two people state that they were HAPPY that Jam Master Jay was killed.

 

Third major problem is rap's fault. Mainsteam music changes often, but then everything sounds like it. IE: Boy bands were different in late 97 early 98, then a flood of them are out. Plus the lyrics could sound the same if you heard a few songs once. Sampling doesn't help matters. I swear that "Lodi Dodi" by The Get Fresh Crew is the most sampled song of all time. Hearing major hooks from songs being songs from 70s and 80s could make people upset a little.

 

If people says all rap is the same. Then listen to stuff like Tupac, Outkast, Wu-Tang, Wyclef, Jay-Z(non released singles) and Missy. They don't do the normal rap that most hate. It isn't the normal shit. Good talent that most might hate goes to D-Block and G-Unit.

[Mole 0]

Mole, I don't hate you, and I also don't feel like having another Metal Crusade like I used to have to do constantly at WrestlingTalks and Mcrook and Wrestling-Titans, so I'll say this once: KoRn and Slipknot and Linkin Park and almost any other band you'll hear Rolling Stone call "metal" are NOT metal. The obvious exceptions to this rule are the big ACTUAL metal acts, such as Slayer and Iron Maiden and Black Label Society.

I don't really know metal, so I see Korn and Slipknot as metal. Actually, would hard rock fit them better?

 

And I know Linkin Park isn't metal, but I also like them.

[Red Baron 0]

Mole, I don't hate you, and I also don't feel like having another Metal Crusade like I used to have to do constantly at WrestlingTalks and Mcrook and Wrestling-Titans, so I'll say this once: KoRn and Slipknot and Linkin Park and almost any other band you'll hear Rolling Stone call "metal" are NOT metal. The obvious exceptions to this rule are the big ACTUAL metal acts, such as Slayer and Iron Maiden and Black Label Society.

I don't really know metal, so I see Korn and Slipknot as metal. Actually, would hard rock fit them better?

 

And I know Linkin Park isn't metal, but I also like them.

its labelled as Shit.

[Guest Coffey]

Well, this is just my opinion, so don't think that I'm speaking for everyone, however I would assume it's because a lot of rappers don't possess a ton of musical talent. Sure, some of them write their own lyrics and can rhyme to a beat...however how many of them can sing or play an instrument? How many of them make their own beats to rhyme to?

 

It's just a different style of music and some people refuse to acknowledge it as talent. Just like some people refuse to call Nascar, Golf or Bowling a sport.

[Slayer 0]

Let us all agree then at least that very little good music (if any music, at that) of ANY genre comes from MTV, period

[Guest Coffey]

Oh, there's not doubt. MTV hasn't been about actual musical talent in years. I think that's part of the problem. The youth of America today watches MTV, and they just assume that what they see is good because it's on MTV. That's why music today sucks.

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

Let us all agree then at least that very little good music (if any music, at that) of ANY genre comes from MTV, period

Absolutely; anybody who watches MTV deserves what they get.

 

 

And "The Humpty Dance" is the most sampled song of all time...

[razazteca 0]

Most sampled song of all time is George Clinton "Atomic Dog" or Zapp "Bounce" or anything James Brown did.

[Slayer 0]

what about "The Message" by Grandmaster Flash?

[OldSchoolWrestling 0]

Most sampled song of all time is George Clinton "Atomic Dog" or Zapp "Bounce" or anything James Brown did.

Found this somewhere:

 

So, which artist is the most sampled of all time? Unsurprisingly, James Brown, with over 100 of his songs having been utilized for sampling (not including JBs recordings). Polygram Records have set up a department solely for the purpose of listening to records to check for unlicensed use of James Brown samples. The most sampled song? That accolade goes to James Brown’s 'Funky Drummer' with over 170 tracks having sampled it. Nine Inch Nails to New Order, Public Enemy to Prince, Queen to George Michael, and countless hip-hoppers and rappers in between, have all sampled it in one way or another.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

I like rap music but I choose not to discuss it on this board because it's like talking about wrestling to a non-wrestling fan. Furthermore, most of the people who are on this board don't seem to know what they're talking about.

 

I fail to see how you can say rap is inferior because nobody is singing or playing a guitar. Someone who plays bass is a bassist. Someone who raps is a RAPPER. Saying that it's easier to do what a rapper does than it is to do what someone else does is ignorant. People play other people's songs in rock all the time. How many times have you heard a rapper perform someone else's song word for word? You don't hear it because rap doesn't work that way.

 

Sean Paul sticks out because he is not a RAPPER. His music might be played when rap music is played, but it's not rap music.

 

I hear people talk about how much they love Outkast, but some of the stuff they do isn't rap. "Hey ya" is not a rap song. A rapper is performing it, but it's not a rap song.

 

The people that don't like rap are never going to like it, so why bother arguing about it?