Rap: Why does it get such a bad "rap " around here

[razazteca 0]

Sean Paul maybe Dancehall but he talks really fast so he must be rap

 

Outkast is the love children of Prince & P-Funk.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

See, now it's breaking down into sub-genres, and really, I doubt anybody here could truthfully point out the differences in the sub-genres of hip-hop (just like I can't tell the difference between "house" and "techno" or whatever).

 

And we're not saying it doesn't take talent to rap. Hell, even AGENT said flowing and freestyling are some of the hardest things to do in music. But due to the nature of rap, where it's based more on lyrics than the music itself, it's an overall inferior form of music than many others. Everybody can rap, but not everybody can do it very good, and the vast minority are great. Everybody can play guitar (well, that has two fully functioning hands), but not everybody can do it very good, and the vast minority are great. I just happen to think rock is a superior MUSIC genre because it's the MUSIC that is focused on.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Overall I don't think I'd fight you on that, but there really are some incredible producers out there who make music out of nothing, or out of the most obscure and wonderful sources. Timbaland, for example, doesn't really use samples - he makes all the sounds himself, be they keyboards, beatbox, or whatever. Then you've got people like DJ Shadow, Rjd2, and the Dust Brothers (the guys behind the Beastie Boys' Paul's Boutique) who created nutball sound collages from literally hundreds of sources apiece.

 

You're right, though - rock is more "musical" in most cases. The most important thing about music in rap is how it complements the lyrics. In the best efforts, I really appreciate the balance it creates in the overall song.

Edited January 24, 2004 by Edwin MacPhisto

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

I think, and it's been stated before, that the rap that gets pushed is the gangsta style that I cannot stand. Gangsta also has some bad stereotypes that emerge and whatnot because they say things that few, if any other types of music express. I mean, the first tape I had that I can say I really liked and still like today is Still Crusin' by the Beach Boys. Let's face it, going from the Beach Boys to Eminem is a huge jump, and what he sings about(or supposedly does) ain't what I listen to music to hear.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Now, I didn't say that, I just said I couldn't do it, as opposed to playing other instruments. I can't rap because I'm a cornfed whiteboy who grew up an hour's drive from the nearest black person, who was a 46 year old short order cook named Wilma. I have absolutely no concept of growing up on the streets, or in the ghetto, and basically I don't have anything to rap about. I can make words rhyme pretty easily, but to transcend it out of comedy for me, is completely impossible. There's plenty of stuff out there that's harder. Like playing a harp, I'd figure. I've never tried it, but from what I've learned from Marx Bros. movies, it looks complicated.

 

Bottomline, it takes massive skill to make your vocals sound good, and even more (at least in my opinion) to be a masterful producer.

 

Also, good call by Corey for indirectly mentioning the myriad sub genres of techno. Talk about some picky nomenclature.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Someone who plays bass is a bassist. Someone who raps is a RAPPER. Saying that it's easier to do what a rapper does than it is to do what someone else does is ignorant.

 

Especially playing bass. It's easy, but it's my favorite.

[razazteca 0]

Now, I didn't say that, I just said I couldn't do it, as opposed to playing other instruments. I can't rap because I'm a cornfed whiteboy who grew up an hour's drive from the nearest black person, who was a 46 year old short order cook named Wilma. I have absolutely no concept of growing up on the streets, or in the ghetto, and basically I don't have anything to rap about. I can make words rhyme pretty easily, but to transcend it out of comedy for me, is completely impossible. There's plenty of stuff out there that's harder. Like playing a harp, I'd figure. I've never tried it, but from what I've learned from Marx Bros. movies, it looks complicated.

 

Bottomline, it takes massive skill to make your vocals sound good, and even more (at least in my opinion) to be a masterful producer.

 

Also, good call by Corey for indirectly mentioning the myriad sub genres of techno. Talk about some picky nomenclature.

You could be the next Bubba Sparxx. As for techno I enjoy some jungle, drum & bass, ambient, house, happy hardcore, rave, what was big in the 90's.

[Steviekick 0]

See, now it's breaking down into sub-genres, and really, I doubt anybody here could truthfully point out the differences in the sub-genres of hip-hop (just like I can't tell the difference between "house" and "techno" or whatever).

Here's the difference between techno and house music:

 

The name "House" comes from a club in Chicago called Warehouse. Musically, it is more related to disco music. The best example I can think of is Daft Punk.

 

Techno on the other hand is much harder sounding. An example is Prodigy.

 

The difference between House and Techno is how it is listened to. House is definitely the more dance music related genre. Techno is more listening related, like how you'd listen to chill out techno like the Orb or Aphex Twin or to raverbashing fun to Atari Teenage Riot.

[razazteca 0]

The German Industrial sound is/was great.

[ant_7000 0]

House has more bass sounds and chants than techno. House example: The Perculator song, Techno: Prodigy's stuff. Agent, Rap doesn't have to be about hardships all time. Shit, Bubba Sparxxx raps about how country he is. You could rap about anything like state current affairs to going to the laundry mat.

[razazteca 0]

Don't forget about Will Smith rapping about how he could fight Mike Tyson and parents don't understand.

[Slayer 0]

Yeah, speaking of which, what happened to a lot of the light-heartedness of rap and hip-hop from the 80's (rhetorical, since we know the answer anyway)...

 

I miss that

[razazteca 0]

They all became actors

 

Will Smith went to Belair

Kid & Play had a House Party

LL Cool J decided to rent a room from Debbie Allen

Who's the Man featured everybody from Tommy Boy or Jive records

Heavy D got an office job and did acting on the side

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

Yah and out of those actors only Will & LL becamse successful.

 

Meh I still like Will Smith's rap, I don't care what anyone says.

[razazteca 0]

Yah and out of those actors only Will & LL becamse successful.

 

Meh I still like Will Smith's rap, I don't care what anyone says.

Don't forget the "gansters" who became successful actors such as members of ONYX and NWA. Or Ice-T who 1st appeared in Breakin 2: Electric Bugaloo.

[Guest El Satanico]

Onyx? Who's the succesful actor from them?

[razazteca 0]

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0277727/bio Sticky Fingers/Fredro Starr

[Guest El Satanico]

That's actually who I was thinking.

[The Amazing Rando 0]

I call Neo-Classical Metal. That shit rules.

[razazteca 0]

I call electro funk acid fusion booty bass.

[Guest Ronixis]

I mostly read on this board, but ALMOST never respond. I have heard both Rock/Metal (Power, Thrash, a Little death...but thats it.) and Rap, and belive me when I say this, Rap is at a crossroads, heading downwords. I think Rock/Metal has a bit more passion now than Rap had since the old days.

 

I think that the one other reason Rap is heading to the abyss? The world that Tupac talked about really does not exist anymore. For many artists that want to do newer shit, its hard to become your own, because Tupac (who was schooled in the classcal style of music) even though he had a chance to get away from it, stuck with the Thuglife Mentality...it worked for few years, but it should have ended a along time ago...and yet it has not.

 

Outkast has been doing well ever since there inseption back in 1992, and they have shown that R&B can go newer directions, its just that they dont want to get away from the bling bling, the ladies are "whores" mentality...whereas Rock keeps it real with Me (IMO). Its the Videos too, too many times I see contractions. IMHO R&B should bring some of funk-gothic beats into there sound (Note the final part of Ailleahs(sp) "Four Page Letter" with the ghostly chorus, Timberland could be the guy that can do it...) and do more videos, while alibit dark, should be at least have some logical reason for the dark mood (Ashanti's Rain On Me is a good example, but they MUST get rid of that old 70's beats if R&B gonna get some ground)

 

Its not that I like party music- and I like party music, they just do TOO DAMN MUCH of it. and yes I know 50 has some talent, but its not all about cash, bangers, foshissle my nissale in real life...thats whats killing Rap. Its not fun when it needs to be, its not talking about life when it needs to be talking about it, and its not surrealist when it needs to be...Outkast has been doing all of this and thats why I respect them, even the hardest of of hardest Metal heads (that I know of) give them there chops... Thats saying something.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

See, now you're talking passion in the music, and this brings up something I've been thinking for a VERY long time: rap and metal are the same, but only have different backgrounds. Think about it.

 

Metal started off as a lower-class form of music that emphasized apocalyptic themes and murderous, depressed moods as a way of describing what it was like to live in a factory town with very little money. Ozzy Osbourne (the Godfather of Metal) had no running water when growing up. NONE. Rob Halford also lived in environments that would make even the harshest ghetto rapper go "DAMN, I feel bad for them" at. Metal started as a way for the lower-class, industrialized white world to rebel. Distortion, speed, technical procision, and vocals that didn't fit the mold. Punk started much the same way, but was VERY lighter at heart.

 

Rap started off as a lower-class form of music that emphasized the lyrical value of every day ghetto life. The first rappers were DJs in clubs that would read rhyming poems over background music in between records. It caught on, and soon rappers were rapping about getting out of the ghetto and partying, the rap music itself, and politics. It wasn't until the gangsta rap of the late 80's where the "this is how ghetto life really is" theme became dominant, although rap artists were doing that theme since day one.

 

Both have come under quite a bit of scrutiny from the conservative right and the liberal left. Both have been cited as being leading contributors in the decay of society. Both have been bastardized by the mainstream to sell records when the message is lost, and the idea an institution. But what was the common idea shared? Rebellion. The lower-class, blue collar whites from Britain rebelled against the order they lived in. The lower-class, "forced into poverty" blacks from America rebelled against the system that they believe caused it. The two genres are extremely similar, really, and I'm still having trouble seeing why they can't get along.

[The Metal Maniac 0]

The two genres are extremely similar, really, and I'm still having trouble seeing why they can't get along.

 

I think it's because they're based on two totally different things; Metal music focuses primarially on the music, while rap focuses primarilly on the rap itself. This became extremely evident to me the other day when, while watching a rap video (I wasn't in control of the remote) I realized that the beat the rapper had going wasn't even needed in the song. It was just the same beat, over and over and over. The only reason it seemed to be there was to make the rap sound like more then just him rhyming quickly.

 

So you're always going to get this split between people who value the use of musical instruments in music (obviously those who favour metal) and those who feel that lyrics are more important then all that jazz. They're at opposite ends of the musical spectrum just about, so even if they're somewhat connected as far as their roots & creation goes, the end results are just too different.

 

Also, I don't think the fact that both genres shared an idea of rebellion is very significant. Music has been all about rebellion for quite some time, going back to the 1950's when Rock and Roll was going to poison our youth, rape our daughters and eat our babies. I can agree with the rest of what you're saying Laz, but I think rebellion is so often critical to music that it's kinda pointless to say that genre A and genre B are connected because they're both rebellious.

[razazteca 0]

The two genres are extremely similar, really, and I'm still having trouble seeing why they can't get along.

People are afraid of progress and change. Its that simple. In the past several big groups of the time colabated together to make music and stop the hate. Anthrax & Public Enemy, RUN DMC & Aerosmith, Ice-T in Body Count, countless soundtracks and concept albums.

 

When a new group which is clearly influenced by both genres gets big, it gets hated on for doing so or gets a demeaning label such Nu-Metal. Lately it has become fashionable to hate so called boyband groups like Linkin Park which may or may not be a studio exec's creation.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Actually, they get hated on because they suck. Notice how 311 and Stuck Mojo are (in general) well-liked by rock fans, despite the rapped vocals (and in Mojo's case, an ACTUAL BLACK MAN to rap, OH MY)? Ditto for RATM and the Beasties.

 

The problem with rap/rock acts is that so few can do them well, mostly because they get people with little-to-no flow as frontmen. Bonz (Mojo) had decent flow, and that's being generous, but it fit the music.

[Slayer 0]

The problem with rap/rock acts is that so few can do them well, mostly because they get people with little-to-no flow as frontmen.

Pretty much, yes. I can't even find a hanfdul of people who think Mr. Backwards Cap is a good frontman/representative of the genre as a whole, but MTV puts him forth as the big shit right now

[razazteca 0]

The problem with rap/rock acts is that so few can do them well, mostly because they get people with little-to-no flow as frontmen.

Pretty much, yes. I can't even find a hanfdul of people who think Mr. Backwards Cap is a good frontman/representative of the genre as a whole, but MTV puts him forth as the big shit right now

Yup Fred Durst sucks also.

[Guest El Satanico]

During the mainstream popularity of rock/rap(it's dying off) I'm surprised more bands didn't take the easiest approach and mix an actual rapper or rap group with metal guitars and drums. It worked for Public Enemy and Onyx, yet you didn't see when rap/rock was popular.

 

That's the perfect combo of rap and rock, not the shit we got. Sure that's what they were attempting to do, but none of the guys attempting it could pull it off.

[razazteca 0]

Ice-T and Body Count needs to make a comeback. Or Anthrax & Beastie Boys should from a supergroup like they tried to do with the "I'm the Man" song.

[Guest El Satanico]

Body Count missed the perfect time to make a comeback.