Just to let you know

[Guest MikeSC]

The Bush Hitler Thing

t r u t h o u t | Reader Submission

 

Friday 09 January 2004

 

Dear Sir,

 

My family was one of Hitler's victims. We lost a lot under the Nazi occupation, including an uncle who died in the camps and a cousin killed by a booby trap. I was terrified when my father went ballistic after finding my brother and me playing with a hand grenade. (I was only 12 at the time, and my brother insisted the grenade was safe.) I remember the rubble and the hardships of 'austerity' - and the bomb craters from Allied bombs. As late as the 1980s, I had to take detours while bombs were being removed - they litter the countryside, buried under parking lots,buildings, and in the canals and rivers to this day. Believe me, I learned a lot about Hitler while I was growing up, both in Europe and here in the US - both my parents were in the war and talked about it constantly, unlike most American families. I spent my earliest years with the second-hand fear that trickled down from their PTSD - undiagnosed and untreated in those days.

 

I'm no expert on WWII - but I learned a lot about what happened in Germany - and Europe - back in those days. I always wondered how the wonderful German people - so honest, decent, hard-working, friendly, and generous - could ever allow such a thing to happen. (There were camps near my family's home - they still talk about them only in hushed conspiratorial whispers.) I asked a lot of questions - we were only a few kilometers from the German border - and no one ever denied me. My relatives had obviously spent a lot of time thinking about the war - they still haven't forgotten - I don't think anyone can forget such a horrible nightmare. Among the questions I asked:

 

Why didn't you do anything about the people in the camps?

 

Everyone was terrified. People 'disappeared' into those camps. Sometimes the Nazis came and lined everyone up, walking behind them - even school children - with a cocked pistol. You never knew when they would just shoot someone in the back of the head. Everyone was terrified. Everyone was disarmed - guns were registered, so all the Nazis had to do was go from house to house and demand the guns.

 

Didn't you see what was happening?

 

We saw. There was nothing we could do. Our military had no modern weapons. The Nazis had technology and resources - they just invaded and took over - we were overwhelmed by their air power. They had spies everywhere - people spying on each other, just to have an 'ace in the hole' in case they were accused - and anyone who had a grudge against you could accuse you of something - just an accusation meant you'd disappear. Nobody dared ask where you had gone - anyone who returned was considered suspicious - what had they said, and who did they implicate? It was a climate of fear - there's nothing anyone can do when the government uses fear and imprisonment to intimidate people. The government was above the law - even in Germany, it became 'every man for himself'. Advancement was possible by exposing 'traitors' - anyone who questioned the government. It didn't matter if the people you accused were guilty or not - just the accusation was enough.

 

Did anyone know what was going on?

 

We all knew. We imagined the worst because the Nazis made 'examples' of a few people in every town and village. Public torture and execution. The most unspeakable atrocities were committed in full view of everyone. If this is what happened in public, can you imagine what might be going on in the camps? Nobody wanted to know.

 

Why didn't the German people stop the Nazis?

 

Life was better, at first, under the Nazis. The war machine invigorated the economy - men had jobs again, and enough money to take care of their family. New building projects were everywhere. The shops were full again - and people could afford good food, culture, and luxuries. Women could stay home in comfort. Crime was reduced. Health care improved. It was a rosy scenario - Hitler brought order and prosperity. His policies won widespread approval because life was better for most Germans, after the misery of reparations and inflation. The people liked the idea of removing the worst elements of society - the gypsies, the homosexuals, the petty criminals - it was easy to elicit support for prosecuting the corrupt 'evil'people poisoning society. Every family was proud of their hometown heroes - the sharply-dressed soldiers they contributed to his program - they were, after all,defending the Fatherland. Continuing a proud tradition that had been defeated and shamed after WWI, the soldiers gave the feeling of power and success to the proud families that showered them with praise and support. Their early victories were reason to celebrate - in spite of the fact that they faced poorly armed inferior forces - further proof that what they were doing was right, and the best thing for the country. The news was full of stories about their bravery and accomplishments against a vile enemy. They were 'liberating' these countries from their corrupt governments.

 

These are some of the answers I gleaned over the years. As a child, I was fascinated with the Nazis. I thought the German soldiers were really something - that's how strong an impression they made, even after the war. After all, they weren't the ones committing war crimes - they were the pride of their families and communities. It was just the SS and Gestapo that were 'bad'. Now I know better -but that pride in the military was a strong factor for many years, only adding to the mystique of military power - after all, my father had been a soldier too, but in the American army. It took a while to figure out the truth.

 

Every time I've gone back to Europe, someone has taken me to the 'gardens of stone' - the Allied cemeteries that dot the countryside. With great sadness, my relatives would stand in abject misery, remembering the nightmare, and asking 'Why?'. Maybe that's why they wouldn't support the US invasion of Iraq. They knew war. They knew occupation. And they knew resistance. I saw the building where British flyers hid on their way back to England - smuggled out by brave families that risked the lives of everyone to help the Allies. As a child, I had played in a basement, where the cow lived under the house, as is common there. The same place those flyers hid.

 

So why, now, when I hear GWB's speeches, do I think of Hitler? Why have I drawn a parallel between the Nazis and the present administration? Just one small reason -the phrase 'Never forget'. Never let this happen again. It is better to question our government - because it really can happen here - than to ignore the possibility.

 

So far, I've seen nothing to eliminate the possibility that Bush is on the same course as Hitler. And I've seen far too many analogies to dismiss the possibility. The propaganda. The lies. The rhetoric. The nationalism. The flag waving. The pretext of 'preventive war'. The flaunting of international law and international standards of justice. The disappearances of 'undesirable' aliens. The threats against protesters. The invasion of a non-threatening sovereign nation. The occupation of a hostile country. The promises of prosperity and security. The spying on ordinary citizens. The incitement to spy on one's neighbors - and report them to the government. The arrogant triumphant pride in military conquest. The honoring of soldiers. The tributes to 'fallen warriors. The diversion of money to the military. The demonization of government appointed 'enemies'. The establishment of 'Homeland Security'. The dehumanization of 'foreigners'. The total lack of interest in the victims of government policy. The incarceration of the poor and mentally ill. The growing prosperity from military ventures. The illusion of 'goodness' and primacy. The new einsatzgrupen forces. Assassination teams. Closed extralegal internment camps. The militarization of domestic police. Media blackout of non-approved issues. Blacklisting of protesters - including the no-fly lists and photographing dissenters at rallies.

 

There isn't much doubt in my mind - anyone who compares the history of Hitler's rise to power and the progression of recent events in the US cannot avoid the parallels. It's incontrovertible. Is Bush another Hitler? Maybe not, but with each incriminating event, the parallel grows -it certainly cannot be dismissed. There's too much evidence already. Just as Hitler used American tactics to plan and execute his reign, it looks as if Karl Rove is reading Hitler's playbook to plan world domination - and that is the stated intent of both. From the Reichstag fire to the landing at Nuremberg to the motto of "Gott Mit Uns" to the unprovoked invasion and occupation of Iraq to the insistence that peace was the ultimate goal, the line is unbroken and unwavering.

 

I'm afraid now, that what may still come to pass is a reign far more savage and barbaric than that of the Nazis. Already, appeasement has been fruitless - it only encourages the brazen to escalate their arrogance and braggadocio. Americans support Bush - by a generous majority - and mass media sings his praises while indicting his detractors - or silencing their opinions completely. The American people seem to care only about the domestic economic situation - and even in that, they are in complete denial. They don't want to hear about Iraq, and Afghanistan is already forgotten. Even the Democratic opposition supports the occupation of Iraq. Everyone seems to agree that Saddam Hussein deserves to be executed -with or without a trial. 'Visitors' are fingerprinted. Guilty until proven innocent. Snipers are on New York City rooftops. When do the Stryker teams start appearing on American streets? They're perfectly suited for 'Homeland Security' - and they've had a trial run in Iraq. The Constitution has been suspended - until further notice. Dick Cheney just mentioned it may be for decades - even a generation, as Rice asserts as well. Is this the start of the 1000 year reign of this new collection of thugs? So it would seem.

 

I can only hope that in the coming year there will be some sign - some hint - that we are not becoming that which we abhor. The Theory of the Grotesque fares all too well these days. It may not be Nazi Germany - it might be a lot worse.

 

SL | Wisconsin

 

AND

 

The customers always write. I get about 400 e-mails in response to my columns every week, which might explain why I didn't answer yours. Here, slightly edited, is one of the more interesting ones from last week. It's from Herr Moellers in Germany:

"Dear Mr. Sorensen,

 

"I have many American friends and used to go on business travel to the U.S. a lot (I stopped doing that after even our European governments have given in to Uncle Sam's appetite for information about individuals traveling to God's Own Country), and I am shocked by the deterioration of democracy in a country that I used to love. This administration is a shame and the destabilization they have brought to the world is scaring the s** out of me.

 

"My father was a Nazi soldier and he realized during the war what he and most of his generation was led into. I have learned from him that a nation can be guilty and that we must stop the arrogance of the powers at the very beginning. To me, America is becoming truly scary and the parallels to the development in Germany of the thirties (although the reason behind it are totally different) are sickening.

 

"Thank you for writing about this development. The world is waiting for signs of opposition in the Unilateral States of America!"

 

Herr Moellers' e-mail is typical of a half dozen or so I've received over the past year from people with intimate knowledge of Nazi Germany.

 

I respect experience, so I'm inclined to believe what these people are telling me. Perhaps their memories help explain the attitude of Germans toward the Bush administration these days.

 

They've been there, they've done that. They know what a corrupt government smells like.

 

But are they "over the top"? Are they overreacting to a normal swing of the pendulum in American politics?

 

To make a comparison between Germany in the 1930s and America now, I relied on a Web site called "A Teacher's Guide to the Holocaust." The passages in quotations below are taken from the site.

 

"With Adolf Hitler's ascendancy to the chancellorship, the Nazi Party quickly consolidated its power. Hitler managed to maintain a posture of legality throughout the Nazification process."

 

Whether by chance or design, George W. Bush is the most powerful American president in modern history. Not only does he have both houses of Congress beholden to him, but the majority of the Supreme Court is acting like a quintet of Bush lapdogs. And it all appears legal.

 

"Domestically, during the next six years, Hitler completely transformed Germany into a police state."

 

Civil libertarians insist that this is happening here now, with the USA Patriot Act in force and Patriot II on the table.

 

"Hitler engaged in a 'diplomatic revolution' by negotiating with other European countries and publicly expressing his strong desire for peace."

 

Nobody can accuse Bush of being overly diplomatic, but, like all political leaders, he is an apostle for peace, even while starting two wars during his brief tenure.

 

In 1933, the Reichstag, Germany's parliament building, was burned to the ground. Nobody knows for sure who set the fire. The Nazis blamed communists. "This incident prompted Hitler[,then Germany's chancellor,] to convince [German President Paul von] Hindenburg to issue a Decree for the Protection of People and State that granted Nazis sweeping power to deal with the so-called emergency."

 

The Reichstag fire parallels the Sept. 11 attacks here, and Hindenburg's decree parallels our USA Patriot Act.

 

Soon after Hitler took power, the concentration camp at Dachau was created and "the Nazis began arresting Communists, Socialists and labor leaders ... . Parliamentary democracy ended with the Reichstag passage of the Enabling Act, which allowed the government to issue laws without the Reichstag."

 

With Bush leading all branches of government around by the nose, there's a question whether parliamentary democracy still exists here. Certainly, concentration camps exist, if we're willing to call the lockup at Guanténamo Bay what it really is. And the USA Patriot Act allows the president to effectively take citizenship rights from any American-born criminal suspect.

 

"Nazi anti-Semitic legislation and propaganda against 'Non-Aryans' was a thinly disguised attack against anyone who had Jewish parents or grandparents. Jews felt increasingly isolated from the rest of German society."

 

How comfortable do American-born Arabs feel in the United States today?

 

While the German concentration camps were being built and Jews were being persecuted, in 1936 Nazi Germany hosted the Olympic Games and put its best face forward to the world. We have the Super Bowl.

 

In the mid- to late 1930s, Germany was able to annex nearby territories without firing a shot. That was because of the threat of the German military, the strongest in the world at the time. That might be compared with the sudden flexibility of Iran, Pakistan, Syria and Libya, all of whom are aware that Bush will do more than just threaten; he'll do it.

 

When one is comparing then and now, I think the most interesting factor is that most German Jews remained in Germany until it was too late. They just couldn't believe Hitler was as dangerous as some people said he was. The more prescient Jews (most often those who could afford to do so) got out, however.

 

Hitler came to power in 1933, but the killing of Jews (and others) didn't begin until five years later, in 1938, with the historic Kristallnacht ("Night of Broken Glass") on Nov. 9. On that day, "nearly 1,000 synagogues were set on fire and 76 were destroyed. More than 7,000 Jewish businesses and homes were looted, about 100 Jews were killed, and as many as 30,000 Jews were arrested and sent to concentration camps to be tormented ... ."

 

We haven't seen anything like that here, nor does it appear to be one the horizon, yet one must wonder about the hundreds shut away in Guanténamo Bay and in other lockups in the United States and throughout the world.

 

I haven't space here to list all of the apparent comparisons between then and now, but you can see them for yourself by reading the teacher's guide mentioned earlier.

 

My conclusion is that some comparisons between modern times and Nazi Germany are valid, and some are not. Enough are valid, in my opinion, however, for us to be wary, and as vigilant as humanly possible.

 

Whatever happens in this year's election, I would hope that Congress, the Supreme Court and the president himself start reeling in the power of the presidency. It has been expanding ever since Franklin D. Roosevelt, if not before, and now it is way out of proportion to what the Founding Fathers had in mind for our system of checks and balances.

 

Our current president has the power to turn the world into turmoil with a mere stroke of the pen. No man should have that much power, no matter who he is.

 

Harley Sorensen

 

This is from the 411mania forums and the libs there AGREE with this drivel.

-=Mike

[Guest Ghettoman]

Oh those zany lib's, when will they ever learn.....

[Firestarter 0]

Oh those zany lib's, when will they ever learn.....

November 2nd 2004.

[C Dubya 04 0]

Let me just say that although I did not favor the war in Iraq, I think that it is ridiculus and insulting to all the people tortured and murdered during the Halocaust to compare Bush to Hitler. I'm tired of hearing about and I'm tired of the idiots who do it. This is not the Liberal position that I chose to defend.

[justsoyouknow 0]

I really liked how he made sure to lay the exposition and the sob stories on thickly before saying "Why do I think Bush is Hitler?". Kinda sneaky.

[Vyce 0]

Gotta love some of them libs.

 

It's not enough to merely disagree with the other side's politics & beliefs - you have to equate them with the worst human being of the past 100 years.

 

I'd find their tactics particularly vile if I wasn't already numb from their constant use.

[Guest Wildbomb 4:20]

How nice for you, Mike, to say that this qualifies under the liberal banner. I'm one, and the whole Hitler-Bush thing is absolutely ridiculous. Bush, unless he decides to nuke the Middle East, or any human, for that matter, would ever come close to Hitler.

 

Then again, it is typical of one with a conservative view to generalize. The liberal view is one that speaks for the individual. Hence why Michael Moore is a complete idiot...

[Guest Olympic Slam]

While the German concentration camps were being built and Jews were being persecuted, in 1936 Nazi Germany hosted the Olympic Games and put its best face forward to the world. We have the Super Bowl.

Well then. Case closed. By virtue of the United States hosting the Super Bowl; Bush does in fact = Hitler. Also, Hitler stood up with two legs and.......Bush ALSO stands up with TWO legs. Clearly they are one in the same.

[tommytomlin 0]

Nothing like copy-pasting an extreme viewpoint from a complete nutbar to make a flawed, ignorant and generalising statement about an entire group of people, eh?

[Guest Olympic Slam]

Nothing like copy-pasting an extreme viewpoint from a complete nutbar to make a flawed, ignorant and generalising statement about an entire group of people, eh?

How nice for you, Mike, to say that this qualifies under the liberal banner. I'm one, and the whole Hitler-Bush thing is absolutely ridiculous. Bush, unless he decides to nuke the Middle East, or any human, for that matter, would ever come close to Hitler.

 

Then again, it is typical of one with a conservative view to generalize. The liberal view is one that speaks for the individual. Hence why Michael Moore is a complete idiot...

 

This guy above nailed it. The term "liberal" has been abused far too long by left-wing nuts like Michael Moore and other big government types that care not for individual rights, but for herding us from one system of bondage into another. These days, "liberal" is mostly used to describe Democrats and other lefties when in fact, there is very little classical liberalism left in BOTH parties.

 

Everyone needs to stop getting so wrapped up with labels. You know what a label is? It's NOTHING. It says nothing and it accomplishes NOTHING. It's a tool that is used by those with weak debating skills to INSTANTLTY nullify the opposing argument with loaded language. This "Bush is a Nazi" thing is a classic example of getting people to identify with negative language instead of persuasive facts or opinions. I feel like I'm in 10th grade debate club all over again, where every "debate" would degenerate into nothing but labeling and name-calling. Facts and ideaology were thrown out the window to see who could call one side a "homophobe, racist, extremist, liberal, god lover, idiot" the most. I wish more people on this board would discuss what they actually believe rather than waste time with "OMG you're mischaracterizing my political ideology." If we spent more talking about what we BELIEVE in rather than crying about partisan labeling; we might actually find out that the majority of us agree with each other 70% of the time.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

I didn't read the whole thing but I don't have to for what I am about to say. Now I might get flamed for it but here goes.

 

Bush can never do what Hitler did because he isn't as intelligent. This isn't some dumb joke towards Bush but I've always said, regardless of the fact Hitler was an evil man I do believe he and Stalin were two of the most intelligent dictators ever. Their methods were wrong but they got people to believe in what they stood for long before instilling fear in them...and I do mean a good majority. Also Hitler's Generals were intelligent men but they were always kept in line by Hitler where-as behind the scenes alot of what has gone on in the Bush administration has been done by Rumsfield, Powell, and Chaney.

 

Thus why Bush can never be considered a threat as Hitler was.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Just to let you know, THIS qualifies as thought in the left

 

Damn. I don't remember voting on that. I should go call my Leftist Indoctrination Camp immediately and inform them. Come on, people, let's get on the ball! They don't call it a DEMOCRATIC process for nothing now, do they?

 

Ah, good, after 10 minutes of listening to hold music by Barbara Streisand and Moby, I'm talking to a very liberally-slanted political sciences teacher right now. He says he'll toss a ballot down from the ivory tower immediately.

 

First letter kind of exemplifies why I'm not afraid of the Bush/Hitler comparison (although it's poor form when used, say, for a TV ad) but a lot of things the writer complains of is done by many leaders and countries. Namely,

The promises of prosperity and security. The spying on ordinary citizens. The incitement to spy on one's neighbors - and report them to the government. The arrogant triumphant pride in military conquest. The honoring of soldiers. The tributes to 'fallen warriors. The diversion of money to the military

 

This stuff is nothing new. I see nothing wrong with honoring military service, myself. At the very least, it encourages enough people to volunteer that I don't have to worry about drafted. But more importantly it's the least to do for those who protect your way of life.

 

People who complain about "the honoring of soldiers" are like the polar opposite of those who complain that if you don't agree with the President, you don't support the troops. These people believe, because they don't like the President, they shouldn't support the troops, and they shouldn't support the country.

 

That's, well, just as stupid.

 

The first and most prominent problem with the Bush/Hitler analogy is, of course, that Bush isn't cooking any Jews. The second is that while things like "free speech zones" and parts of the Patriot Act should be unconstitutional, they're not the most drastic violation of the Constitution we've seen. I mean, in an ideal America, it's a bad thing. But we're not talking Japanese-American internment camps. The biggest rights violations are going on at Gitmo, and it's pretty hard for most Americans to feel sorry for people who plotted to kill them.

 

Which is why I don't really care for the Bush/Hitler equation. While some of the movements and rhetoric of Bush and the GOP bear a faint resemblance, to draw comparisons is like comparing the flame from a pocket lighter to last year's L.A. inferno.

 

I more like the comparison to the red scare. Potential communists, like potential terrorists, could look like you, speak your langaugae, live next door. Like then, the government tells people to be on alert while remaining very secretive at the same time. Like then, there's a lot of namecalling and baseless accusations being flung around, but since we've learned to not accept that from our government, it's done by radio and TV personalities.

 

The only difference was, there were a few Communists in the US, here and there (and, like now, the tactics used to discover them was quite suspect.) There's also some terrorists in the US right now, but Sean Hannity equating liberals with terrorists is not going to capture a single damn one of them.

 

 

 

 

So no, I don't necessarily approve of the whole "Modern America = Nazi Germany" thing, but I see no reason why some won't say this thinking is shared by everyone left of center, the candidates, and others.

[Guest Cerebus]

There are SOME similarities to the Red Scare but not quite. Remember there wasn't a "race" of communists it was just an intellectual belief. One could argue that there is something similar to Islamic Fundamentalism, but let's face facts, the big difference between the Red Scare and now is RACE. Brown-skinned guys wearing turbans and skullcaps with beards and brown-skinned women in shawls. Let's not kid ourselves, this is what first pops into our head when we think of "muslims." The problem is, of course, just like there are many overlapping ideas of what a "communist" is there are a lot of overlapping ideas of what a "muslim" or "arab" is supposed to look like, this is especially acute since people know very little about the Middle East and India...and the fact that it is easy for ANYONE to confuse people, even people who have lived there. I mean, look at how many people attacked Sikhs after 9/11 thinking they were Muslims when they are a religious minority of India that are an offshoot of Hinduism and have very little connection to Islam at all. They were attacked because they had brown skin, turbans, and beards. Of course the line FURTHER blurs since race and skin color sometimes have nothing to do with each other. Some Arabs (usually from the Meditteranean area) can have fair skin, blonde hair, and blue eyes and look like someone from Califronia rather than from Syria or Palestine. My mother, a full blooded Palestinian, is fair skinned with blue eyes hardly anyone would give her a second glance thinking she's Arab. So if I, who is half-Palestinian with the same fair skin and blue eyes, walk down the airport with my brown-skinned, bearded Hindu Indian friend who is looked at more carefully? Is that bad? Is it neccessary? Bah, I've talked too much about this...

[Firestarter 0]

look at how many people attacked Sikhs after 9/11 thinking they were Muslims

Like, one?

[Guest Cerebus]

One killing several attacks. Look, I'm just saying that, amazingly enough, poor education on the subject coupled with horribly stupid media images and pleanty of fury after 9/11 led to a lot of unnecessary and stupid attacks against people that had absolutely nothing to do with it. Don't mistake me for some bleeding heart either, I think some profiling is badly needed at airports instead of just relying on patting down 4-year olds and grandmas as well as confescating nailfiles.

[Firestarter 0]

Oh, I agree; I'm just saying that the numbers don't bear out anything like the massive backlash Moslems and liberals shrieked about and marched against and sued for. It was a deliberately deceitful exaggeration from beginning to end. Frankly, if after something like 9/11 that's the worst foreign-looking folks have to endure, Americans as a whole are far more moral, upstanding, fair-minded, level-headed, and downright noble than anyone's ever given us credit for.

[Guest MikeSC]

How nice for you, Mike, to say that this qualifies under the liberal banner. I'm one, and the whole Hitler-Bush thing is absolutely ridiculous. Bush, unless he decides to nuke the Middle East, or any human, for that matter, would ever come close to Hitler.

 

Then again, it is typical of one with a conservative view to generalize. The liberal view is one that speaks for the individual. Hence why Michael Moore is a complete idiot...

I can say, without ANY questioning here, that several liberal sites have NUMEROUS members who hail this as virtually holy writ. This isn't exactly rare thought.

I didn't read the whole thing but I don't have to for what I am about to say. Now I might get flamed for it but here goes.

 

Bush can never do what Hitler did because he isn't as intelligent. This isn't some dumb joke towards Bush but I've always said, regardless of the fact Hitler was an evil man I do believe he and Stalin were two of the most intelligent dictators ever. Their methods were wrong but they got people to believe in what they stood for long before instilling fear in them...and I do mean a good majority. Also Hitler's Generals were intelligent men but they were always kept in line by Hitler where-as behind the scenes alot of what has gone on in the Bush administration has been done by Rumsfield, Powell, and Chaney.

 

Thus why Bush can never be considered a threat as Hitler was.

Seeing as how I studied Hitler rather extensively in college, I can say that Adolf was NOT a terribly bright individual and was surrounded by people of even LESS intellectual capacity.

 

Hitler's idiocy would amaze people. Dumb as a rock.

-=Mike

-=Mike

[Guest JMA]

I can say, without ANY questioning here, that several liberal sites have NUMEROUS members who hail this as virtually holy writ. This isn't exactly rare thought.

I could easily find as many extremist conservative sites. Very easily.

 

Of course, finding extremists on the internet isn't exactly hard...

 

As for Hitler, didn't he get most of his power through charisma rather than actual intelligence?

[Firestarter 0]

As for Hitler, didn't he get most of his power through charisma rather than actual intelligence?

Neither. It was political cunning and luck. To quote Methos, the times were right for a Führer.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

As for Hitler, didn't he get most of his power through charisma rather than actual intelligence?

Neither. It was political cunning and luck. To quote Methos, the times were right for a Führer.

Hitler came into power by 1 vote I believe.

 

He was also in the right place at the right time. People were willing to give up their rights in order to get the economy back on track.

[Guest MikeSC]

As for Hitler, didn't he get most of his power through charisma rather than actual intelligence?

Neither. It was political cunning and luck. To quote Methos, the times were right for a Führer.

You know what's funny? I'm getting FLAMED for not taking the thoughts seriously.

 

AS they say, "We weren't implying that Bush was evil or going to have a Holocaust."

-=Mike

[Vern Gagne 0]

Also Hitler's Generals were intelligent men but they were always kept in line by Hitler where-as behind the scenes alot of what has gone on in the Bush administration has been done by Rumsfield, Powell, and Chaney.

Thank god for that. Hitler's ego and notion he was some military mastermind, played a large role in why the Nazi's lost the war.

[snuffbox 0]

I could easily find as many extremist conservative sites. Very easily.

 

Of course, finding extremists on the internet isn't exactly hard...

you dont even need the web...just check out our attorney general...you know, the guy so trusted in his state that they felt a corpse would make a better senator.

[MrRant 0]

Seeing as how I studied Hitler rather extensively in college, I can say that Adolf was NOT a terribly bright individual and was surrounded by people of even LESS intellectual capacity.

 

Hitler's idiocy would amaze people. Dumb as a rock.

-=Mike

The problem was he also killed off the smart ones like Rommell. Of course he also plotted against Hitler... but if Rommell were in charge of the military aspects. Shit would be different.

 

Hitler was stupid in that he didn't get started on getting all the weapons into production that could have won/saved the war until it was too far gone.

 

*Goes off to watch Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe"

[Guest jpclemmons]

As a lib. I think the Bush-Hitler anology is rediculous as well.

[Guest jpclemmons]

November 2nd 2004.

The day Bush Will be gone from the white house.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

the big difference between the Red Scare and now is RACE. Brown-skinned guys wearing turbans and skullcaps with beards and brown-skinned women in shawls. Let's not kid ourselves, this is what first pops into our head when we think of "muslims."

Yes, but we're not fighting Muslims. We're fighting Terrorism. Terrorism comes in many forms, both Mohammed Atta and Timothy McVeigh.

 

The arab stereotype is an important issue, but another one entirely. That problem stems from fear and immaturity. Again, the government isn't establishing Arab-American Internment Camps. It's purely a social thing.

[Guest Olympic Slam]

the big difference between the Red Scare and now is RACE. Brown-skinned guys wearing turbans and skullcaps with beards and brown-skinned women in shawls. Let's not kid ourselves, this is what first pops into our head when we think of "muslims."

Yes, but we're not fighting Muslims. We're fighting Terrorism. Terrorism comes in many forms, both Mohammed Atta and Timothy McVeigh.

 

The arab stereotype is an important issue, but another one entirely. That problem stems from fear and immaturity. Again, the government isn't establishing Arab-American Internment Camps. It's purely a social thing.

Nah, we're at war with Islamic Fundamentalism. "Terrorism", "Evil-Doers" and "WMD's" are all words used to soften what we're really dealing with. I wish our government would come out and say who the terrorists are and what they believe in. This whole "terrorism" thing is too broad and too vague. That's why the Patriot Act bothers me. Just what IS a terrorist? Will it always be a guy like Bin-Laden? Or can it be broadend to anyone who dares speak out against the United States governemt and or its government programs? Sigh, just another thing for me to lose sleep over.....

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Nah, we're at war with Islamic Fundamentalism. "Terrorism", "Evil-Doers" and "WMD's" are all words used to soften what we're really dealing with.

Then we're opening ourselves up to more violence and more death. Crazies with explosives are already here.

 

I wish our government would come out and say who the terrorists are and what they believe in.

 

The problem is how you do that without threatening the typically peaceful Muslims who just want to live life without blowing themselves up or being blown up by someone else.

[Guest Cerebus]

Oh, I agree; I'm just saying that the numbers don't bear out anything like the massive backlash Moslems and liberals shrieked about and marched against and sued for. It was a deliberately deceitful exaggeration from beginning to end. Frankly, if after something like 9/11 that's the worst foreign-looking folks have to endure, Americans as a whole are far more moral, upstanding, fair-minded, level-headed, and downright noble than anyone's ever given us credit for.

And I agree with you Marney, but one attack or one killing is one too many for me. The good thing is that, unlike France, Americans, for the most part, try to learn from other people about their backgrounds, religion, motivation etc.