San Francisco Officials Marry Gay Couples

[NoCalMike 0]

I could have sworn I saw a report where a woman married a dead guy. Isn't that breaking down the sanctity of marriage as much as civil unions are/could?

Nah...it was heterosexual. Its all good with the Christian folk so long as the dead guy's still ruling over his wife.

And why did I have any hope that anyone on here would have any kind of actual grasp on Christian views on marriage and women?

 

I don't know.

 

However, if anyone really wants the Christian take (the real evangelical, biblical Christian take, not what the liberals and/or the media would portray it as), I'd be happy to provide.

I don't understand how that matters since marriage is not something exclusive to christians or any religious faith.

Your reply has nothing to do with the quote at hand. The quote displays a clear misconception about what Christians actually believe and what the Bible teaches about both marriage and women. THAT was the point of my reply.

ok but I think the guy was just making a JOKE about the man ruling over the woman, and instead of laughing at the joke like most would, you felt you needed to come to our rescue and show us the way.

[Guest SP-1]

I could have sworn I saw a report where a woman married a dead guy. Isn't that breaking down the sanctity of marriage as much as civil unions are/could?

Nah...it was heterosexual. Its all good with the Christian folk so long as the dead guy's still ruling over his wife.

And why did I have any hope that anyone on here would have any kind of actual grasp on Christian views on marriage and women?

 

I don't know.

 

However, if anyone really wants the Christian take (the real evangelical, biblical Christian take, not what the liberals and/or the media would portray it as), I'd be happy to provide.

I don't understand how that matters since marriage is not something exclusive to christians or any religious faith.

Your reply has nothing to do with the quote at hand. The quote displays a clear misconception about what Christians actually believe and what the Bible teaches about both marriage and women. THAT was the point of my reply.

ok but I think the guy was just making a JOKE about the man ruling over the woman, and instead of laughing at the joke like most would, you felt you needed to come to our rescue and show us the way.

No, but it's interesting that the first thing you attempt to do is paint me in a certain fanatical light.

 

Even if a joke (which it probably was), it's a joke about something close to my heart and that I take seriously. I'm not ENRAGED~! or OFFENDED~! or any other number of fun adjectives (with tildebang) that show up on the board. It's a joke based on a misconception that's perpetuated everytime a joke like it is made or someone goes spouting off blatant untruths about Christian beliefs and biblical teaching. Things which I believe are too important to let get too far out of hand. That's how cultural perceptions are made, and false cultural perceptions are already firmly in place.

 

Nowhere have I ever claimed to be on TSM to be showing people the way. If my comfort and open nature here, and insistence on correcting misconceptions about Christian beliefs contirbutes in some way to someone here digging in and coming to know Christ truly, that's great. That's always a great thing. But it's not my absolute purpose in every single post at TSM. Contrary to what some would like to think or say.

[NoCalMike 0]

Well I also kind of was amused at how you blamed liberals/media, yet happened to leave out guys like Fauwell who are probably doing a lot more harm to christian beliefs and their perception by the masses, then any liberal can do.

[Firestarter 0]

However, if anyone really wants the Christian take (the real evangelical, biblical Christian take, not what the liberals and/or the media would portray it as), I'd be happy to provide.

Huh boy.

 

If my comfort and open nature here, and insistence on correcting misconceptions about Christian beliefs contirbutes in some way to someone here digging in and coming to know Christ truly, that's great. That's always a great thing. But it's not my absolute purpose in every single post at TSM.

Y'all sure could've fooled li'l ol' me.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

Homosexuals in San Fransisco(?), surely you jest!

[Vern Gagne 0]

I could have sworn I saw a report where a woman married a dead guy. Isn't that breaking down the sanctity of marriage as much as civil unions are/could?

That happened in France. They allow people to marry someone who dies, if they have proof they planned on getting married. The President is also the only person who can ok the marriage.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

So, basically, Cerebus is correct and this is, for all intents and purposes, the same thing Moore did in AL?

                              -=Mike

...Again, I don't care if gays get married --- I have a problem with courts (or, in this case, nutbars in SF) overstepping their bounds and swamping over the whole "Checks and Balances"

I consider it civil lawbreaking, and I am sure it will not stand. But, no, I personally don't think it's the same as Moore's thing. To explain why would be too complex than I feel like going over. But, to start, this isn't costing taxpayers money like Moore did trying to fight over that stupid rock. It's similar because it's the case of someone legally flexing their position to accomplish illegal means. But really, that's not exactly a rare thing in San Francisco (again, see the feds busting up the medicinal pot clubs.)

 

This is illegal, but is intended to initiate a review of the state constitution as to whether Prop 22 is unconstitional to add in the very same document that outlaws government discrimination. I am lax in condemning it because it's not hurting or costing or cheating anybody.

 

Also, since you really want to corner me regarding the comparisons of this and Moore, and I'm going to admit that I'm completely biased in this arguement, since I'm biased against people tying religion into our government, and biased towards gay marriage. So you can hold the breaking news alert, because I never claimed to be a pillar of balanced judgment in this issue, or the Moore issue, in the first place.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Your reply has nothing to do with the quote at hand. The quote displays a clear misconception about what Christians actually believe and what the Bible teaches about both marriage and women. THAT was the point of my reply.

There seems to be a lot of leeway in "what Christians actually believe."

 

I mean, if you want to go on about what Christians as a whole believe and then say it's this way or that, I could play the same game and say that, as a Christian, you must believe in something stupid like, say, the Rapture.

[2GOLD 0]

Insane Christians (you know the ones) and anyone else who has a problem needs to step off. And the Bible should have NOTHING to do with this at all. Does this mean Jewish couples aren't really married? Are they pretending? What about Muslims and Hindus? They just faking it?

 

I'm sick and tired of that "The bible says" like the bible is the end all of discussion. Not that anyone on the board says that but I'm talking in general. I don't care what the bible says about it cause the bible isn't the only thing on the planet used for marriage.

 

Gays should be allowed to get married. If they want to screw up their lives by getting married then have a ball. I'd like to hear arguments against gay marriage that doesn't include the words god, christ, my religion or the bible. If I hear any of those words not used in a swearing sense then I tune out the discussion.

 

As for this, yeah it's illegal but it's California so I'm not going to pay much attention. California and Florida have become the "LOOK AT ME" states of the US and I'm tired of them.

[Guest SP-1]

Your reply has nothing to do with the quote at hand.  The quote displays a clear misconception about what Christians actually believe and what the Bible teaches about both marriage and women.  THAT was the point of my reply.

There seems to be a lot of leeway in "what Christians actually believe."

 

I mean, if you want to go on about what Christians as a whole believe and then say it's this way or that, I could play the same game and say that, as a Christian, you must believe in something stupid like, say, the Rapture.

The theological and biblical teachings on the rapture aren't the subject of discussion here so I fail to understand any logical point you're making. Nor MUST I believe in it. Some of us do, some of us don't, or at least not in the same exact way that others do. It's left pretty vague biblically. Whether or not it happens as some suspect has no bearing on the central, core issues of salvation and lifestyle. Your attack is useless: it's NOT a universally agreed upon concept within the church, nor is it important enough, in my opinion, to be so. It's part of the end, after the important work has been completed. Try again.

 

There are Christian extremists out there that don't help the situation. But a predominantly liberal media takes every opportunity to take a shot at anyone with any sort of moral conviction. Which, really, isn't neccesarily a bad thing for the church itself. Or at least the Western church. It needs a good kick in the pants right now, in my opinion.

 

On the issue at hand, marriage is much deeper than a physical or emotional or legal living situation. So much more deeper. It was instituted in the very beginning as a holy union, binding man and woman together as one under God. It's so amazingly more beautiful and important than what our society has managed to boil it down to: sex, emotion, and paperwork.

 

Which is sad.

 

Legal Homosexual marriage is probably going to happen here very soon. It's simply the direction that things are going in. And for all we disagree with it, Christians shouldn't be persecuting anyone. It's not our call, it's not our way, and it never has been. Not for any Christian that's paid any real attention to their Bible and what it teaches. Not any Christian that paid any attention to Jesus Christ. We are called to be an example of the marriage that we anticipate, between Christ and the Church. Where we truly love one another and others. Persecution I do NOT agree with. Neither do the Christians that I live with, neither do my professors, nor the leadership and teaching of my home church. Those of us who have devoted our lives to the academic and true theological study of the Bible which, as I said, is our final authority and guide.

[Firestarter 0]

Wow... I pretty much agreed with almost all of SP's last post. Shit! I'm breaking out in hives!

[Guest The Satanic Angel]

On the issue at hand, marriage is much deeper than a physical or emotional or legal living situation.  So much more deeper.  It was instituted in the very beginning as a holy union, binding man and woman together as one under God.  It's so amazingly more beautiful and important than what our society has managed to boil it down to: sex, emotion, and paperwork.

In your opinion, okay.

 

In my opinion, marriage is the bonding of two people who love one another and anticipate spending the rest of their lives with one another. They are dedicated and devoted to each other.

 

It can be beautiful and important without needing God.

 

I (along with 2Gold) anxiously await someone who can give clear reason why legal marriage between homosexuals should not be allowed without using any reference to how God wanted it to be.

 

The sanctity of marriage? The only thing destroying that is divorce.

 

In my opinion.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

I mean, if you want to go on about what Christians as a whole believe and then say it's this way or that, I could play the same game and say that, as a Christian, you must believe in something stupid like, say, the Rapture.

Yes, because a man, both fully human and fully divine, dying for our sins isn't a conceivably stupid thing to believe in......

[Jobber of the Week 0]

The theological and biblical teachings on the rapture aren't the subject of discussion here so I fail to understand any logical point you're making.  Nor MUST I believe in it.  Some of us do, some of us don't, or at least not in the same exact way that others do.  It's left pretty vague biblically.  Whether or not it happens as some suspect has no bearing on the central, core issues of salvation and lifestyle.  Your attack is useless: it's NOT a universally agreed upon concept within the church, nor is it important enough, in my opinion, to be so.  It's part of the end, after the important work has been completed.  Try again.

You missed the point, which is that it's nigh-impossible to talk to us about "what Christians believe" since there's so many varying Christian opinions, especially on this thread's issue.

 

If you want to break down all the issues that Christians universally agree upon, there's not a whole lot. Maybe something about the Bible, Jesus, and a shared belief in one God. But that's it.

 

Otherwise, good post.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Yes, because a man, both fully human and fully divine, dying for our sins isn't a conceivably stupid thing to believe in......

Hi there.

 

Believing that God takes all the good people and places them in Heaven, leaving their Earthly stuff on Earth (i.e. everyone in Heaven has no clothes), while he and everyone else watches as the rest of us all sit and boil in agony as hell breaks out on Earth?

 

 

 

 

Stupid.

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

Yes, because a man, both fully human and fully divine, dying for our sins isn't a conceivably stupid thing to believe in......

Hi there.

 

Believing that God takes all the good people and places them in Heaven, leaving their Earthly stuff on Earth (i.e. everyone in Heaven has no clothes), while he and everyone else watches as the rest of us all sit and boil in agony as hell breaks out on Earth?

 

 

 

 

Stupid.

If you think free will = agony...

 

Sure.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

If you think free will = agony...

 

Sure.

"Hi, I'd love to go out and have a drink with you, but you're going to be boiled alive at the upcoming aramageddon, so I'm just going to leave you alone now. Thanks for asking."

 

I mean, it's almost as bad as the Jehova's Witnesses and the "everyone who doesn't join us is unpure" thing.

[NoCalMike 0]

I don't see how marriage "originally being intended to be a holy union" has anything to do with modern times. The fact of the matter is, religion has little to do with a lot of marriages these days other then people doing it "in a chapel" for the show of it. Plus you can get married by a judge, or a damn Elvis Impersonator if you want, so this issue is bigger then, "my book says marriage means this" To me, this comes down to a basic civil rights issue in our constitution which states no one can be discriminated against, if you are denied something like marriage based on the grounds of being homosexual then that surely is discrimination, thus unconstitutional.

[Guest The Satanic Angel]

Yes, because a man, both fully human and fully divine, dying for our sins isn't a conceivably stupid thing to believe in......

Yet, it isn't entirely logical for those of us who have a scientific mind..

[2GOLD 0]

I don't see how marriage "originally being intended to be a holy union" has anything to do with modern times. The fact of the matter is, religion has little to do with a lot of marriages these days other then people doing it "in a chapel" for the show of it. Plus you can get married by a judge, or a damn Elvis Impersonator if you want, so this issue is bigger then, "my book says marriage means this" To me, this comes down to a basic civil rights issue in our constitution which states no one can be discriminated against, if you are denied something like marriage based on the grounds of being homosexual then that surely is discrimination, thus unconstitutional.

 

Basically.

 

But since THE BIBLE is the last word in EVERYTHING, he must follow it's rules.

 

The Bible is a book, it shouldn't tell ALL RELIGIONS how to live. If you want to live by it, I think that's fantastic and enjoy it for all the glory or whatever you desire.

 

But this "you can't do this CAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS" crap is getting on my nerves. And if we add into the constitution that "marriage is only allowed between a man and a woman" then we might as well cut out the first amendment cause a religion has just decided something it has no right deciding.

[NoCalMike 0]

I don't see how marriage "originally being intended to be a holy union" has anything to do with modern times.  The fact of the matter is, religion has little to do with a lot of marriages these days other then people doing it "in a chapel" for the show of it.  Plus you can get married by a judge, or a damn Elvis Impersonator if you want, so this issue is bigger then, "my book says marriage means this"  To me, this comes down to a basic civil rights issue in our constitution which states no one can be discriminated against, if you are denied something like marriage based on the grounds of being homosexual then that surely is discrimination, thus unconstitutional.

 

Basically.

 

But since THE BIBLE is the last word in EVERYTHING, he must follow it's rules.

 

The Bible is a book, it shouldn't tell ALL RELIGIONS how to live. If you want to live by it, I think that's fantastic and enjoy it for all the glory or whatever you desire.

 

But this "you can't do this CAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS" crap is getting on my nerves. And if we add into the constitution that "marriage is only allowed between a man and a woman" then we might as well cut out the first amendment cause a religion has just decided something it has no right deciding.

correct. religion can decide what it's own followers would like to do in THEIR OWN life, but it shouldn't be a guideline for everyone.

[Guest The Satanic Angel]

but it shouldn't be a guideline for everyone.

I think this is what you meant.

 

And I agree wholeheartedly.

[Skywarp! 0]

Yeah.....

 

this is a great way to win over public opinion. The more they piss everyone off the harder in the long run it'll be to get what they want.

History has taught us repeatedly that sometimes that's what you have to do to be given the same human dignities as everyone else.

[C Dubya 04 0]

Yeah.....

 

this is a great way to win over public opinion.  The more they piss everyone off the harder in the long run it'll be to get what they want.

History has taught us repeatedly that sometimes that's what you have to do to be given the same human dignities as everyone else.

Ask Rosa Parks about this. I think that she'll agree with you.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I mean, if you want to go on about what Christians as a whole believe and then say it's this way or that, I could play the same game and say that, as a Christian, you must believe in something stupid like, say, the Rapture.

Yes, because a man, both fully human and fully divine, dying for our sins isn't a conceivably stupid thing to believe in......

If I didn't read anything else that you've posted, I would've guessed that you were an atheist.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

By the way, this is the face of what will DESTROY THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE!!!

 

I don't know about marriage, but it just ruined any chance of a hard-on I was going to get.

 

Thanks for ruining my V-Day...

[Spicy McHaggis 0]

I mean, if you want to go on about what Christians as a whole believe and then say it's this way or that, I could play the same game and say that, as a Christian, you must believe in something stupid like, say, the Rapture.

Yes, because a man, both fully human and fully divine, dying for our sins isn't a conceivably stupid thing to believe in......

If I didn't read anything else that you've posted, I would've guessed that you were an atheist.

Well, the point was to show how moronic it is to criticize one particular part of Christianity because it's "stupid". From a purely scientific standpoint, the whole thing is "stupid". Once a week, I'm eating and drinking the Body and Blood of the Son of God who died for my salvation. Everything about my faith should be called stupid from JotW's perspective, not just one, non-central belief.

[Guest SP-1]

The theological and biblical teachings on the rapture aren't the subject of discussion here so I fail to understand any logical point you're making.  Nor MUST I believe in it.  Some of us do, some of us don't, or at least not in the same exact way that others do.  It's left pretty vague biblically.  Whether or not it happens as some suspect has no bearing on the central, core issues of salvation and lifestyle.  Your attack is useless: it's NOT a universally agreed upon concept within the church, nor is it important enough, in my opinion, to be so.  It's part of the end, after the important work has been completed.  Try again.

You missed the point, which is that it's nigh-impossible to talk to us about "what Christians believe" since there's so many varying Christian opinions, especially on this thread's issue.

 

If you want to break down all the issues that Christians universally agree upon, there's not a whole lot. Maybe something about the Bible, Jesus, and a shared belief in one God. But that's it.

 

Otherwise, good post.

This alone shows that your knowledge of Christian beliefs is, at best, severely limited. I can no longer take your criticisms seriously.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Everything about my faith should be called stupid from JotW's perspective, not just one, non-central belief.

I was taught Christianity from age 4 through 11, so it's kind of hard for me to condemn all of Christianity as stupid. If nothing else, I'd be calling myself stupid.

 

I was never exposed to this Rapture or Left Behind stuff though, and if I was, I'd doubt it in an instant.

 

This alone shows that your knowledge of Christian beliefs is, at best, severely limited.  I can no longer take your criticisms seriously.

Well, as I just said, I haven't been doing philanthropy on this stuff for very long, or with a great amount of knowledge. My knowledge of Christianity, aside from analyzing various lines of the Bible, was more of the "Jesus loves everyone" variety. Stuff like abortion and gay marriage was never discussed. Of course, look at the ages I mentioned and you can imagine why.

 

So you can imagine how shocked I was when I got older I found out how so many Christians reacted as a majority to various things (not really abortion, but gay people was one of them) and how I wanted to distance myself from it.

 

That's my own credentials. I give you full credit to knowing more about Christianity than I do. But I also know that there's been some Christians much more accepting when I tell them I'm interesting in other men than some of the other ones I've met, so I know they can't ALL think alike.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I mean, if you want to go on about what Christians as a whole believe and then say it's this way or that, I could play the same game and say that, as a Christian, you must believe in something stupid like, say, the Rapture.

Yes, because a man, both fully human and fully divine, dying for our sins isn't a conceivably stupid thing to believe in......

If I didn't read anything else that you've posted, I would've guessed that you were an atheist.

Well, the point was to show how moronic it is to criticize one particular part of Christianity because it's "stupid". From a purely scientific standpoint, the whole thing is "stupid". Once a week, I'm eating and drinking the Body and Blood of the Son of God who died for my salvation. Everything about my faith should be called stupid from JotW's perspective, not just one, non-central belief.

I figured as much, but I guess it was too subtle for me to grasp.

 

It's also the fact that even to prove a point, most Christians would not admit to it being "stupid". Go to church every Sunday eh? That's odd for anyone on this forum not named "Spiderpoet".