JHawk 0 Report post Posted February 24, 2004 Raw from JHawk's Beak (2/23/2004) You know the drill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Highland 0 Report post Posted February 24, 2004 I turned it off before the last segment, because I knew it would suck, but the downside is I missed an F5 on Austin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Open the Muggy Gate 0 Report post Posted February 24, 2004 I was kinda shocked actually when Christian nailed Trish. I thought Trish was going to betray Jericho down the road and side with Christian. Guess not. I also liked how Christian got on his knees to put more pressure on it. That turns it into... wait for it... LIONTAMER~! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haVoc 0 Report post Posted February 24, 2004 Would it really have killed them to just build the Molly-Victoria one-on-one match for WrestleMania and have Victoria win it there? I mean, she's been number one contender forever, and when she finally gets her shot, she ends up beating Lita for the title, who hadn't been anywhere near the championship in over a month. I guess we could still get Victoria vs. Molly, but it's not going to mean the same now. At least this was an elimination match though, because the champion had to get pinned to lose the title, unlike the WrestleMania triple threat match. You silly bastard. You can't have a womens championship match at WM when they already have Stacy/Jackie Vs Sable/Torrie. One womens match a night. It's only a 5 hour show, ya know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ghettoman Report post Posted February 24, 2004 The bit with Orton not getting a reaction after you aleady said he got his 'first true heel heat' is just bullshit contradicting bullshit. I highly doubt the crowd standing on there feet when it was over was a sign of there massive disinterest in what was happening. Oh but of course they were expecting Foley, which is why they weren't focused on the ramp. Please let the trend die, if you don't like him, ok, but this fabricated crap about how much heat he gets is really wearing thin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ghettoman Report post Posted February 24, 2004 And no realism in shoot punches? Come on.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHawk 0 Report post Posted February 24, 2004 The bit with Orton not getting a reaction after you aleady said he got his 'first true heel heat' is just bullshit contradicting bullshit. I highly doubt the crowd standing on there feet when it was over was a sign of there massive disinterest in what was happening. Oh but of course they were expecting Foley, which is why they weren't focused on the ramp. Please let the trend die, if you don't like him, ok, but this fabricated crap about how much heat he gets is really wearing thin. Allow me to quote a couple of things to make my point. "Bang bang" from Orton for his first true heel reaction in weeks. And... Mick Foley had more heat than either of the two men in the match, and considering he didn't make any sort of in-ring appearance in the entire segment, that is pretty sad. Listen to the tape. Outside of Orton's "bang bang" and a couple of "Foley" chants, the crowd is dead for that match. Therefore, there was no reaction for the match, only for Foley. That's not "contradicting bullshit", that's paying attention. Hell, I like Randy Orton more than most here, but if the only way he can get a reaction is by mocking Foley, it's stupid to say anything else. That's not fabricated, that's the truth. Unless you consider dead silence to be "heat". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted February 24, 2004 Face it, Orton can't win. No matter what happens, people are going to go out of their way to find reason to discount any heat the kid might draw. This is NOT to say that Orton draws super huge 'OMG my face is on fire' heat. But people totally discount whatever Orton does draw in order to keep their little gag running for the rest of human history. Chanting 'Foley' at Orton is heat folks. Especially since Orton doesn't have a 'You suck' chant to use against him, fans are going to chant the name of the guy that Orton is feuding with if they are going to chant anything. That was the whole point of getting Mick to come back in the first place. It doesn;t matter anyway... we all know if Orton got thunderous boos, it would be 'X-Pac heat' regardless aroung here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ghettoman Report post Posted February 24, 2004 How do you describe dead? I mean if there dead for that match then they were dead for every match on the card. They were into what was happening, they were getting on Orton, they weren't just chanting Foley looking at the entrance way, there were yelling it at him to get a reaction and he gave it which worked well into a transition of offense for Val. There wasn't dead silence, the majority of the crowd on there feet clapping, giving thumbs down booing and some cheering. It was a good end of a match reaction, it shows the crowd was intent on what happened and could happen. I'd say "dead silence" is pretty much bullshit when your not even using it as an exaggeration. I think you should watch the tape. This whole "Orton gets no heat" thing is getting really tired when it's implied everytime he's used, because then it just becomes mostly bullshit. The way the hate bandwagon jumps on certain guys and just continues without merit until eventually they jump on to another one is annoying, seeing it in reports when I'm trying to get filled in on parts I missed and realize I may be getting fabrications elsewhere is beyond irritating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest THE MIGHTY THOR Report post Posted February 24, 2004 Orton doesn't have any heel heat and he hits like a bitch, too bad Vader wasn't there to teach him how. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
King Cucaracha 0 Report post Posted February 24, 2004 Well, exactly what Goodear said. Chanting Foley at Orton is designed to rile up Orton. I know bashing Orton is the 'in' thing to do, but if you're going to mention that why not mention all the other times it happens. It happens whenever Chavo's around, only with 'Eddie' instead of 'Foley'. It happened with Brock, on Smackdown with the 'Goldberg' chants. It's not like it's the first time a heel has had the face he's feuding with's name chanted at him. But, it's Orton, so let's bash him. He gets heat...but it's for imitating someone he's feuding with, so really, it's Foley's heat. So let's bash Orton. I realise he's not anywhere near upper midcard overness to match his upper midcard push, but still...the fact this hate is still going on is bad enough. The fact that it's obviously coming as second nature to people is sad...because whatever Orton does from now, he'll never get credit for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHawk 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2004 I've seen the tape twice now, and all I heard were two "Foley" chants and a rash of boos when Orton did the "bang bang" to mock Foley. The only one of those three instances that I can definitely give Orton credit for is when he did the bang bang, and I acknowledged that. I can see where you'd argue the point that the Foley chants were designed to get under Orton's skin, but considering they were kind of random I saw them more as "Where the hell is Foley to save us?" If Orton's as over as some people claim, then why the crowd dead silent when they weren't chanting "Foley"? It sure as hell wasn't because the match was bad, because it wasn't. And even if we consider that to be "over", it certainly doesn't make him over enough to warrant getting as much TV time as he does and holding the Intercontinental Title. we all know if Orton got thunderous boos, it would be 'X-Pac heat' regardless around here. At least the reaction would definitely be based on him, even if other people around here didn't think so. It happens whenever Chavo's around, only with 'Eddie' instead of 'Foley'. It happened with Brock, on Smackdown with the 'Goldberg' chants. Except Brock throws a fit whenever they chant 'Goldberg'. Chavo throws a fit whenever they chant 'Eddy'. Orton doesn't really react to it much. It's as if he doesn't even realize that's what it's for. Christ, I've never even said I hate Orton. In fact, I'm one of the ones who doesn't always say he sucks. But it sure as hell sounded like that crowd was into Foley and not Orton. I could have gotten the same reaction by saying Foley's a coward and going "bang bang", but that doesn't mean I'd be considered a good heel because of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chuck Woolery 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2004 Um, I don't think the crowd is supposed to be 'into' Orton, being as he's heel and all. Not saying that he's a good heel as JHawk is absolutely right -- any idiot can say Foley's a coward and go 'bang bang' and draw heat for it. It simply means that Orton can draw heat; granted, it's the most basic heel heat possible, but if it works then you can't really consider it a failure. Just, bland and vanilla. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHawk 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2004 Maybe saying they weren't into Orton was a poor choice of words, but it certainly didn't matter that he was out there. They weren't into Val Venis either, but they also weren't trying to shove Val Venis down our throats like he was the second coming of Lou Thesz or something either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chuck Woolery 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2004 I think it'd work if you said that anybody could garner the kind of heat Orton is getting. He's definitely not doing anything revolutionary, and any midcard indy heel worth his salt could garner the same type of heat, maybe more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted February 25, 2004 I watched Raw with two friends over at my house, and we all pretty much agreed that people claming Randy Orton has no heat was a myth. When people used to chant "Goldberg" or "Sting" when the nWo (Hogan) was in the ring, it wasn't 100% because they liked Goldberg & Sting. It had to do with them wanting to see Goldberg & Sting kick Hogan's ass. That means Hogan has heel heat. Same thing with Randy Orton. Sure, it's partially because the fans just admire Foley, but it's because they want to see Foley kick Randy Orton's ass too. That's heel heat. You can't deny that. You can try to make up stuff all day about not caring about Val or Randy so they had to make themselves entertained or blah blah blah. It's heel heat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JHawk 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2004 I'd still feel more confident if Orton was getting a reaction more like "I hope somebody kicks his ass" a la old school Roddy Piper or The Honky Tonk Man. You know, where all that matters is someone beats him and you're happy. That being said, Orton should probably go over at WrestleMania should the one-on-one match go down. If a win over Foley doesn't get him the kind of reaction they want, nothing will. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scroby 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2004 I don't think Orton will be going over at WM 20 just because its Foley and Rock returning to the WWE at that time. So most likely Orton and Batista will loose most likely. Oh I just gotta throw this in.... Way to no sell Vince for Bischoff but when it comes to Austin, his fist=death!...and you all hate RVD. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted February 25, 2004 Well, ignoring most of Scroby's post because I couldn't read it.... I think if The Rock comes back and it's Rock N' Sock Vs. Batista/Orton, then yeah, Rock N' Sock will probably win. Of course, Randy Orton will win the singles match against Foley at Backlash if that happens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scroby 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2004 Well, ignoring most of Scroby's post because I couldn't read it.... Ouch...I'm a sad Scroby. j/k, its just my thoughts or the way I see it rather. Sorry if you disapprove. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted February 25, 2004 No, I seriously don't understand what you were trying to say. I can't read it. It's broken English. Go back and fix your typing/spelling/grammar errors. Oh I just gotta throw this in.... Way to no sell Vince for Bischoff but when it comes to Austin, his fist=death!...and you all hate RVD That doesn't make sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scroby 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2004 Here I'll break it down for you to understand....sorry if you can't understand to well. "Way to no sell Vince for Bischoff" Mean thats Vince was no selling for Eric..so as in way to go vince for NOT selling for Eric. "But when it comes to Austin, His fist=death!" As in when Vince got hit by Austin, he flopped down and didn't start to move till Eric started kicking him. Then Vince took a few second to sell Austin's punch, then stood right up while Bischoff was kicking him. "And you all hate RVD." As in a lot of the people on these boards give RVD hell when he no sells something, but to be honest he really does sell a bit more than Vince did on Monday night. Go ahead and bash me for that one because people most likely will. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
