When did Soviet Culture Become so Chic?

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

You don't see people wearing Swastika patches on their backpacks, but why is the Soviet symbol everywhere? Why do people were CCCP shirts? Why is Joseph Stalin in my avatar?

 

So really, this is a serious question, why is Russia joked about and turned into a fashion accessory while the Nazi's are considered taboo?

 

Keep in mind that the Soviets killed even more people during their time than the Nazis. They had their own holocaust of sorts.

[Nighthawk 0]

Keep in mind that the Soviets killed even more people during their time than the Nazis. They had their own holocaust of sorts.

The fact that you have to point this out is a lot of what it comes down to. People ignore that shit, maybe because we didn't fight them in a war like that.

People do love the Nazis too, they just can't be as open about it.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Keep in mind that the Soviets killed even more people during their time than the Nazis.  They had their own holocaust of sorts.

The fact that you have to point this out is a lot of what it comes down to. People ignore that shit, maybe because we didn't fight them in a war like that.

People do love the Nazis too, they just can't be as open about it.

Exactly, so why is the Soviet culture seemingly "socially acceptable"?

[Guest FrigidSoul]

Maybe because Stalin didn't try to commit genocide while creating a super army composed of people that fit a certain mold?

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Maybe because Stalin didn't try to commit genocide while creating a super army composed of people that fit a certain mold?

He killed more Ukrainians through starvation than Hitler (Himmler) did throughout the entire Holocaust. Stalin was willing to kill off the peasants for the benefit of the urbanized centres. Also, did Hitler ever purge the majority of his Army? Or have about his close confidants? Or did Hitler leave his kid for dead after he was captured by the enemies? Stalin killed his best friends. He killed his best friends wives and kids.

 

There is more blood on Stalin's hands than Hitlers.

 

Any other reasoning for me?

[Guest FrigidSoul]

Did Stalin ever plan world domination? I know Hitler did and that's what got him fucked.

 

If he didn't then that may be why he gets off easy

[justsoyouknow 0]

Maybe because Stalin didn't try to commit genocide while creating a super army composed of people that fit a certain mold?

......The Soviets killed more people than the Nazis. Read a history book or something.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Did Stalin ever plan world domination? I know Hitler did and that's what got him fucked.

 

If he didn't then that may be why he gets off easy

Have you heard of the Iron Curtain you fucking dweeb. What do you think Communism was? It was some rare lollypop game on candyland lane that was ONLY Russia? Why did the Cold War happen? So Stalin could contain Communism in Russia because the Western countries were chomping on the bit to steal it from him?

 

Nope, Russia did NOT want World Domination...not at all.

 

Fool

[justsoyouknow 0]

Maybe because Stalin didn't try to commit genocide while creating a super army composed of people that fit a certain mold?

He killed more Ukrainians through starvation than Hitler (Himmler) did throughout the entire Holocaust. Stalin was willing to kill off the peasants for the benefit of the urbanized centres. Also, did Hitler ever purge the majority of his Army? Or have about his close confidants? Or did Hitler leave his kid for dead after he was captured by the enemies? Stalin killed his best friends. He killed his best friends wives and kids.

 

There is more blood on Stalin's hands than Hitlers.

 

Any other reasoning for me?

Alright, Banky, you could probably clarify this for me: I've heard that Hitler wasn't even the decision-maker behind the Holocaust. As I remember it, all he said to Himmler was that they needed a solution for the "storage problem" with the Jews. Himmler and his secretary (Heidenreich?) then worked out the details of what would eventually be known as the Holocaust. I tried saying something along those lines in the Current Events folder, then everyone just jumped all over me, calling me a Hitler apologist. Could you shed some light?

[Nighthawk 0]

Well, let me brainstorm a bit... when the we were fighting Nazis, everybody was on the same page. Hitler was the devil (and maybe it does bear noting that the soviets don't have a single figurehead like him, they have a few) and nobody argued.

The 50s brought a lot of paranoia about communism. We can look back and see a lot of that as unnecesary, which can't be said as such about our Nazi fight. Not to mention all the blacklisting and witchhunts, not so far removed from Nazis in itself.

In the 60s and into the 70s, we developed a pronounced "Fuck the establishment." thing. People's parents hated communism, so there was that. You had your whitebread bigoted Archie Bunker types calling everyone pinko, and instead of the "hooray for America" attitude of the 40s, it was "shut up and love it". So they said "I'm not feeling it, what else is there?" And there was the USSR doing pretty well, and they said maybe that's ok.

This was going on in people's minds when the sociopolitical climate shifted, there was no definitive conclusion to the issue, and didn't leave anyone with a lasting image of the soviets broken and defeated like we had of the Nazis. By the time the iron curtain fell, our idea of the soviets was already in place, and because it was a cold war, none of that served to make much of a difference. People got tired of Ronald Reagan and George Bush.

So maybe that's why people don't mind so much if you say you're down with that scene.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

There wasn't ever any 'official documents' of Hitler saying "Lets kill all of these Jews. Hitler did NOT have any hands on dealings with the Holocaust, Henry Himmler did. It would be foolish to say that Hitler didn't know about the Holocaust, as he had certainly showed his ant-semetic views on numerous occasions. Throughout the 30's, there were several big attacks on the Jewish people that was lead by Hitler. But the Holocaust itself was lead by Himmler. Hitler just knew better than to directly associate himself with it, or sign any papers to signal the beginning of it. I'd definately venture to say that the Final Solution was his decision.

[justsoyouknow 0]

Gotcha. Also, there was both a German army and a Nazi army during WWII, correct?

[Steviekick 0]

Well, let me brainstorm a bit... when the we were fighting Nazis, everybody was on the same page. Hitler was the devil (and maybe it does bear noting that the soviets don't have a single figurehead like him, they have a few) and nobody argued.

The 50s brought a lot of paranoia about communism. We can look back and see a lot of that as unnecesary, which can't be said as such about our Nazi fight. Not to mention all the blacklisting and witchhunts, not so far removed from Nazis in itself.

In the 60s and into the 70s, we developed a pronounced "Fuck the establishment." thing. People's parents hated communism, so there was that. You had your whitebread bigoted Archie Bunker types calling everyone pinko, and instead of the "hooray for America" attitude of the 40s, it was "shut up and love it". So they said "I'm not feeling it, what else is there?" And there was the USSR doing pretty well, and they said maybe that's ok.

This was going on in people's minds when the sociopolitical climate shifted, there was no definitive conclusion to the issue, and didn't leave anyone with a lasting image of the soviets broken and defeated like we had of the Nazis. By the time the iron curtain fell, our idea of the soviets was already in place, and because it was a cold war, none of that served to make much of a difference. People got tired of Ronald Reagan and George Bush.

So maybe that's why people don't mind so much if you say you're down with that scene.

That's a pretty good evaluation.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

Did Stalin ever plan world domination? I know Hitler did and that's what got him fucked.

 

If he didn't then that may be why he gets off easy

Have you heard of the Iron Curtain you fucking dweeb. What do you think Communism was? It was some rare lollypop game on candyland lane that was ONLY Russia? Why did the Cold War happen? So Stalin could contain Communism in Russia because the Western countries were chomping on the bit to steal it from him?

 

Nope, Russia did NOT want World Domination...not at all.

 

Fool

I'm asking questions here, this stuff interests me. You can just give answers rather than insult me since they are honest question

 

I thought communism was a way for them to just become economically stronger rather than dominate the world. Like make things better for Russia and watch the rest of the world shit the bed.

[justsoyouknow 0]

I thought communism was a way for them to just become economically stronger rather than dominate the world. Like make things better for Russia and watch the rest of the world shit the bed.

Removal of all organized religion is a means of being more economically strong?

[Guest FrigidSoul]

I thought communism was a way for them to just become economically stronger rather than dominate the world. Like make things better for Russia and watch the rest of the world shit the bed.

Removal of all organized religion is a means of being more economically strong?

Yes, because by taking their focuses off of religion and placing it more into their work they were able to produce more shit and what not.

 

Basically they didn't observe Sunday as a day of rest and took an extra day to work more. I think in the end they got screwed because it left most people feeling pretty empty with themselves having nothing to truly believe in.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Well, let me brainstorm a bit... when the we were fighting Nazis, everybody was on the same page. Hitler was the devil (and maybe it does bear noting that the soviets don't have a single figurehead like him, they have a few) and nobody argued.

The 50s brought a lot of paranoia about communism. We can look back and see a lot of that as unnecesary, which can't be said as such about our Nazi fight. Not to mention all the blacklisting and witchhunts, not so far removed from Nazis in itself.

In the 60s and into the 70s, we developed a pronounced "Fuck the establishment." thing. People's parents hated communism, so there was that. You had your whitebread bigoted Archie Bunker types calling everyone pinko, and instead of the "hooray for America" attitude of the 40s, it was "shut up and love it". So they said "I'm not feeling it, what else is there?" And there was the USSR doing pretty well, and they said maybe that's ok.

This was going on in people's minds when the sociopolitical climate shifted, there was no definitive conclusion to the issue, and didn't leave anyone with a lasting image of the soviets broken and defeated like we had of the Nazis. By the time the iron curtain fell, our idea of the soviets was already in place, and because it was a cold war, none of that served to make much of a difference. People got tired of Ronald Reagan and George Bush.

So maybe that's why people don't mind so much if you say you're down with that scene.

1939: Stalin and Hitler alligned against the Allies at the beginning of WW2. It was an understanding but both sides knew they would ultimately clash as Hitler DESPISED Communism. Nazism is the anti-thesis of Communism.

 

1941: Hitler attacks Russia. Stalin is in trouble. The Allies allign with Stalin to fight the common enemy.

 

1942-1945: Russia and their Allies (primarily Britain and colonies, and America) have an understanding with each other. But both are certainly not on the same page and there is suspicion with one another.

 

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I think it is at this time that our lines are drawn that the Soviets are not as bad as the German's. During the early part of WW2, especially after Japan destroyed America and everyone else in the Pacific, there was a definate fear that the Axis Powers could win it all. But once Hitler did his ill-advised attack on Russia and pushing the world's largest army into the arms of the Allies. Russia HELPED America return into a significant position of power.

 

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after 1945 until 1991: Russia and America are the two greatest world powers. America doesn't want war, Russia wants WORLD DOMINATION for their communist empire. They wanted Moscow to be center of the world. But this is when Stalin threw down the Iron Curtain - this beginning the half century long Cold War. Russia was the EVIL ENEMY; they were the "Evil Empire". America was the ideal and just democratic society. AS IDRM said, in the 50's there was a witch hunt searching throughout America looking for Reds. There was Korea, Vietnam, and Cuban crisis. All of that was precipitated by the Russians. So again Iask, why are they the lesser of all evils than the Nazis?

 

Its weird though, Russia was an enemy of the United States for longer than the Nazis. The Soviets killed more people. So why are we so petrified to wear a swastika on our t-shirts?

[MrRant 0]

Because no one takes time to find out where the Swastika actually comes from and think Hitler created it when all he did was tip it.

[justsoyouknow 0]

Its weird though, Russia was an enemy of the United States for longer than the Nazis. The Soviets killed more people. So why are we so petrified to wear a swastika on our t-shirts?

I think it has more to do with that the swastika has come to be a symbol of pure and utter hatred, whereas the sickle and hammer just symbolizes a form of government. The swastika is apparently the equivalent of wearing a shirt that says, "Nigger" on it...people get offended rather easily, conjuring up all of these images of unbridled evil.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Did Stalin ever plan world domination? I know Hitler did and that's what got him fucked.

 

If he didn't then that may be why he gets off easy

Have you heard of the Iron Curtain you fucking dweeb. What do you think Communism was? It was some rare lollypop game on candyland lane that was ONLY Russia? Why did the Cold War happen? So Stalin could contain Communism in Russia because the Western countries were chomping on the bit to steal it from him?

 

Nope, Russia did NOT want World Domination...not at all.

 

Fool

I'm asking questions here, this stuff interests me. You can just give answers rather than insult me since they are honest question

 

I thought communism was a way for them to just become economically stronger rather than dominate the world. Like make things better for Russia and watch the rest of the world shit the bed.

Stalin didn't follow the original Marxist beliefs of a Socialist Utopia that was original sketched during the 19th century. Stalin followed his own rules - which was Stalinism. Communism was a bastardization of the original socialist ideals.

 

Stalin wanted to make their economy stronger, but he did it on the lives of all fo the peasants. From 928-1932 - Stalin starved all fo the peasants by stealing their grain to make them economically stronger. They traded for better equipment and for increased industry.

 

But Stalin did all of this to make Russia look appealing to everyone else. There certainly were times when Stalin was more content with puttin ghr country's economy ahead of everythign else. But there was another side of Stalin where he wanted to conquer the world. He would strip Russia of any of their outside influences to formulate a dominant Russian culture. Stalin knew what he was doing in WW2. He was defeating Germany, then was prepared to go into war with their war-torn Allies. They had the largest army in the world and immidietly after the war they wanted to conquer all of Europe - which certainly would ahve bled into North America - if they had the chance.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Its weird though, Russia was an enemy of the United States for longer than the Nazis.  The Soviets killed more people.  So why are we so petrified to wear a swastika on our t-shirts?

I think it has more to do with that the swastika has come to be a symbol of pure and utter hatred, whereas the sickle and hammer just symbolizes a form of government. The swastika is apparently the equivalent of wearing a shirt that says, "Nigger" on it...people get offended rather easily, conjuring up all of these images of unbridled evil.

See, I think you're onto something. Stalin crached millions of eggs in an attempt to make his country better. He had an honest appeal to make Russia better by any means necessary while Hitler killed for the sake of being a completely heartless sonuvabitch.

 

Thats makes sense.

 

But does the regular person know this? Its not like many would get technical and think about what the sickle and hammer symbolyzes? For some, it certainly equates into hate.

[razazteca 0]

So why are we so petrified to wear a swastika on our t-shirts?

RACISM! Don't worry you may not be able to wear the swastika in the general public with pride but pop culture has decided that the Iron Cross is acceptable, so no worries.

[MrRant 0]

The Iron Cross has always been acceptable as it was the symbol for Germany before WWII.

[razazteca 0]

The swastika is an old icon itself but is guilty by association for being the symbol of Nazism.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

The Iron Cross has always been acceptable as it was the symbol for Germany before WWII.

I think the Iron Cross is related to combat in battle for many countries - not only Nazi Germany.

[Nighthawk 0]

That's a shame about the swastika. Like all those rednecks ruined the confederate flag.

[razazteca 0]

Whitey can and will screw up anything and everything.

[Guest HungryJack]

hmm. i'll have more to say about this stuff when i get home frmo work. Banky knows i'm a student of soviet and european history as well.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

I have both a guy I know who wheres CCCP t-shirts (with a hammer and sickle) and a girl who is from Russia. Nothing like joking around by asking her if she sold him the t-shirt.

 

When it comes to Stalin..

 

he didn't exactly commit widespread genocide, he killed alot of people, but killing doesn't equal genocide. As well, Stalin was not forced from power while his regime lay in tatters. Hitler was.

 

Part of it involves hype. More people know about Hitler gassing people than know about Stalin and the gulag.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Would you say denying international aid for the starving Ukrainians is genocide? I'm not necessarily saying it is, but an argument can be made for Stalin forcing the Ukrainians to die when many wanted to help them.