Guest Cerebus Report post Posted March 4, 2004 Ok, I realize the article is from Weekly Standard, which many of our liberal board members don't necessarily hold in the highest esteem, but it's a really good, almost flawless, informative article about how, ironically, this Democrat backed bill is starting to come down hard on the Democrats themselves in 2004. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted March 4, 2004 Im sure both McCain and Feingold realize that not everyone in the political sector could follow the bill...on either side. They had an ideal to clean up the sad state of American politics. They hoped for a system of men and women elected by the people and serving for the people...not serving for Bell Helicoptor, Enron, Haliburton, Walmart, and Heinz ketchup. Unfortunately, not nearly enough elected officials in this country have a fraction of the courage of John McCain or Russ Feingold. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cerebus Report post Posted March 4, 2004 Amazing way to completely avoid the actual topic. You got potential as a used-car salesman or a politician (which are essentially the same things). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted March 4, 2004 Don't worry -- Dems will find ways around this stupid law and then Kerry will say his patriotism is being questioned... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted March 4, 2004 Don't worry -- Dems will find ways around this stupid law and then Kerry will say his patriotism is being questioned... How could anyone question his patriotism!? He served in Vietnam! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted March 5, 2004 Im sure both McCain and Feingold realize that not everyone in the political sector could follow the bill...on either side. They had an ideal to clean up the sad state of American politics. They hoped for a system of men and women elected by the people and serving for the people...not serving for Bell Helicoptor, Enron, Haliburton, Walmart, and Heinz ketchup. Unfortunately, not nearly enough elected officials in this country have a fraction of the courage of John McCain or Russ Feingold. The same "courageous" McCain who was knee-deep in the Keating Five back in the '80's? THAT John McCain? People can only CLAIM Bush is corrupt. There is evidence to assume McCain is. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2004 Don't worry -- Dems will find ways around this stupid law and then Kerry will say his patriotism is being questioned... How could anyone question his patriotism!? He served in Vietnam! Duder, I dont really think it helps your parties cause to consistently mock the man's service in the Vietnam war. The Republican party itself has already tried to publicly stem the disrespect to Vietnam veterans that has begun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2004 Im sure both McCain and Feingold realize that not everyone in the political sector could follow the bill...on either side. They had an ideal to clean up the sad state of American politics. They hoped for a system of men and women elected by the people and serving for the people...not serving for Bell Helicoptor, Enron, Haliburton, Walmart, and Heinz ketchup. Unfortunately, not nearly enough elected officials in this country have a fraction of the courage of John McCain or Russ Feingold. The same "courageous" McCain who was knee-deep in the Keating Five back in the '80's? THAT John McCain? People can only CLAIM Bush is corrupt. There is evidence to assume McCain is. -=Mike Youre not seriously questioning the courage of John McCain are you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted March 5, 2004 Im sure both McCain and Feingold realize that not everyone in the political sector could follow the bill...on either side. They had an ideal to clean up the sad state of American politics. They hoped for a system of men and women elected by the people and serving for the people...not serving for Bell Helicoptor, Enron, Haliburton, Walmart, and Heinz ketchup. Unfortunately, not nearly enough elected officials in this country have a fraction of the courage of John McCain or Russ Feingold. The same "courageous" McCain who was knee-deep in the Keating Five back in the '80's? THAT John McCain? People can only CLAIM Bush is corrupt. There is evidence to assume McCain is. -=Mike Youre not seriously questioning the courage of John McCain are you? I question his character. Big-time. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2004 Im sure both McCain and Feingold realize that not everyone in the political sector could follow the bill...on either side. They had an ideal to clean up the sad state of American politics. They hoped for a system of men and women elected by the people and serving for the people...not serving for Bell Helicoptor, Enron, Haliburton, Walmart, and Heinz ketchup. Unfortunately, not nearly enough elected officials in this country have a fraction of the courage of John McCain or Russ Feingold. The same "courageous" McCain who was knee-deep in the Keating Five back in the '80's? THAT John McCain? People can only CLAIM Bush is corrupt. There is evidence to assume McCain is. -=Mike Youre not seriously questioning the courage of John McCain are you? I question his character. Big-time. -=Mike Wow Mike, I didnt know that McCain got you so down...was it the bitter battle with your boy Bush in 2000? You realize that McCain and Glenn were the two with the least involvement in the Keating scandal right? You realize those were the only two of the 5 senators involved to seek reelection and win right? You realize hes apologized and owned up to his actions right? You realize this lead to his personal crusade for campaign finance reform right? You realize that another certain family (Bush) had some rather peculiar, close ties to the Savings & Loan scandal as well right? Of course, that family has ties to the Bin Ladens but to you that is mere nonsense Im sure, because that would involve Bush not being a Christlike figure in your esteem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cerebus Report post Posted March 5, 2004 Hey guys, can we stick to topic here? Or does everyone like slinging mud that it doesn't even matter? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2004 Hey guys, can we stick to topic here? Or does everyone like slinging mud that it doesn't even matter? Go for it duder...its your topic, tell us whats on your mind...let us bask in your wisdom... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cerebus Report post Posted March 5, 2004 Hey guys, can we stick to topic here? Or does everyone like slinging mud that it doesn't even matter? Go for it duder...its your topic, tell us whats on your mind...let us bask in your wisdom... Fair enough. Let's start by me asking did anyone even attempt to read the article (which is, admittedly long and tedious)? If you did and weren't confused you're either wrote a dissertation on american elections, did a report on McCain-Feingold or are a complete liar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2004 In all honesty, I did not read the entire article. I basically just surmised that it was a slanted piece directed at Dem campaign financing wrongdoings. Correct me if I was way off. My only opinion is that I feel very strongly about this issue and have great respect for McCain/Feingold for pushing for it. Realism says that it cant be perfect thou, ever. Both sides will continue to cheat the American people out of their country, and auction it off to everything from Haliburton to Heinz to Oil to WalMart....but it gives me a little peace of mind to know that some of our polititians remain active in the battle to keep this country 'of the people, by the people, for the people'. Again, correct me if I was wrong on the articles meaning...but my feelings on the issue in general are the above. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cerebus Report post Posted March 5, 2004 In all honesty, I did not read the entire article. I basically just surmised that it was a slanted piece directed at Dem campaign financing wrongdoings. Correct me if I was way off. Off. Way off. I guess you didn't even skim the article. I'll try to explain and try to keep your attention. Note that this even though this is a fairly long summary I can only leave so much out without completely confusing everyone...campaign-finance reform is not the simplest of matters. See, if you ever actually read about McCain-Feingold instead of just praising it to the sky, you would realize that it elminated unregulated soft money donations made to political parties (obviously the DNC & the RNC). It did, however, raise the limit of individual hard-money donations (i.e. the money that people or organizations can give DIRECTLY to a canidate) from $1,000 to $2,000 and raised the total amount an individual could donate in hard money from $25,000 to $35,000 (both of these new figures are tied to inflation). However, prior to the passage of M-F Act, the amount of soft money raised by the Republicans and Democrats were essentially the same, the amount of HARD MONEY raised however was much higher among Republicans than Democrats. Despite this, the M-F Act was supported mostly by Democrats and mostly oppossed by Republicans even though it would hurt the Democrats far more than the Republicans. Now that the first election cycle in which the act kicks in has come around, it did not take effect during the 2002 elections, Democrats have been caught with their pants around their ankles and bending at the waist. Their soft money has been slashed bad (since individual donations are now limited to $1,000) and the Republicans have been able to raise even more hard money thanks to the raising of the hard-money limit all because of a bill THE DEMOCRATS supported. So, they are scrambling to find alternate avenues to obtain soft money or face a true raping by the Republicans. George Soros the billionaire, who said "defeating George Bush is the central focus of my life" in the Washington Post came up with, and pumped $10 million into, "Americans Coming Together" (ACT) a political organization devoted to taking down Bush and he's filing it under Sectioin 527 of the IRS code. What does that mean? By law, a 527 is a political organization whose primary purpose is to exercise influence over an election (be it local, state, or federal). The DNC and RNC are both 527s for example as is your state Democratic Committee and Republican Committee and your Town Democrats and Town Republicans. However, only if 527s are concerned with federal elections AND (this is key) " are unambiguously partisan organizations... whose work the law now assumes to be exclusively directed toward the support or opposition of federal candidates" are they strictly regulated and scrutinized by the Federal Election Comission (FEC) and, in that case, can't touch a dime of soft money for running ads blasting Bush. Doing so would have to require funds they use to do so have only been with hard money only. That means nobod ycan write 5 million dollar checks to the parties anymore, the maximum they can give to the above groups is $5,000 and, you guessed it, the M-F places the RNC & DNC squarely in this definition. Back to Soros & the Dems. Soros's pet ACT has basically split itself in two. One account, hard-money-only and federally registered, is devoted to overtly toppling Bush with media ads. As we've seen above, Soros & Friends are limited to a $5,000 gift only to this part. However, ACT has another non-federally registered account that can take as much soft money as it wants. This part can take out ads saying Bush is Hitler Incarnate and rapes small children when he isn't planning to set the world on fire if it wants to...as long as it doesn't say the magic words of express advocacy "Vote Kerry" for instance (it also would encourage "Get Out the Vote" or voting registration in demographically targeted areas). Since this part of ACT isn't federally regulated, Soros could put the rest of his $9,995,000 into it and anyone else could spend as much as they wanted into it as well. In essence, with Soros's help, the Democrats set up a soft-money "shadow DNC" in the form of this ACT. So to make a long story short, here's what happened next. The Republicans set up a doppleganger of the ACT, the Americans for a Better Country (ABC) which was essentially the same thing. Tell, the author, makes the suggestion that the Republicans created the ABC for no other purpose but to give it an excuse to ask the FEC if it, and by extention the ACT, were kosher according to McCain-Feingold. The FEC said nay and told the ABC that "All public communications that "promote," "support," "attack," or "oppose" any clearly identified candidate for federal office--say, for example, George W. Bush--whether or not the damn things "expressly advocate" his defeat, and no matter when they're made during the political calendar, must be paid for with hard dollars only." There is more to the restrictions than that (the end of the article goes into more detail) but that's the general idea. Thus, all those fun anti-Bush ads will have to be paid with federally restricted, $5,000 maximum hard-money donations and NOT unlimited soft donations. So now the Democrats have to shut down their new soft-money raising machine or risk the ire of the FEC and, probably, a congressional investigation. All because they sponsored a bill that cut of their soft-money life line...a bill the Republicans tried like hell to defeat. Now, any questions from the class? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2004 Don't worry -- Dems will find ways around this stupid law and then Kerry will say his patriotism is being questioned... How could anyone question his patriotism!? He served in Vietnam! Duder, I dont really think it helps your parties cause to consistently mock the man's service in the Vietnam war. The Republican party itself has already tried to publicly stem the disrespect to Vietnam veterans that has begun. Duder, the Republican Party isn't mocking Kerry's service in the Vietnam conflict (and I think Slapnuts is a Dem -- correct me if I'm wrong). As for me, I doubt my "Did you know that..." is going to change the opinion of any non-Bush voters at TSM. And if Bush should lose the election because a Moleslayer or MarvinisaLunatic voted for Kerry because of my constant Vietnam jokes then I'll gladly take 4 years of Kerry just so I can appear on TV and make a bunch of money on the interview/talk show circuit saying that I cost someone a Presidential election. Of course, Kerry will take all my money away, but at least I'll get chicks... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted March 5, 2004 Im sure both McCain and Feingold realize that not everyone in the political sector could follow the bill...on either side. They had an ideal to clean up the sad state of American politics. They hoped for a system of men and women elected by the people and serving for the people...not serving for Bell Helicoptor, Enron, Haliburton, Walmart, and Heinz ketchup. Unfortunately, not nearly enough elected officials in this country have a fraction of the courage of John McCain or Russ Feingold. The same "courageous" McCain who was knee-deep in the Keating Five back in the '80's? THAT John McCain? People can only CLAIM Bush is corrupt. There is evidence to assume McCain is. -=Mike Two words Harken... Energy that is all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted March 5, 2004 Im sure both McCain and Feingold realize that not everyone in the political sector could follow the bill...on either side. They had an ideal to clean up the sad state of American politics. They hoped for a system of men and women elected by the people and serving for the people...not serving for Bell Helicoptor, Enron, Haliburton, Walmart, and Heinz ketchup. Unfortunately, not nearly enough elected officials in this country have a fraction of the courage of John McCain or Russ Feingold. The same "courageous" McCain who was knee-deep in the Keating Five back in the '80's? THAT John McCain? People can only CLAIM Bush is corrupt. There is evidence to assume McCain is. -=Mike Youre not seriously questioning the courage of John McCain are you? I question his character. Big-time. -=Mike I get the sneaking suspicion that the only reason you question his character is because he is a critic of the Bush administration... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Styles 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2004 Don't worry -- Dems will find ways around this stupid law and then Kerry will say his patriotism is being questioned... How could anyone question his patriotism!? He served in Vietnam! Duder, I dont really think it helps your parties cause to consistently mock the man's service in the Vietnam war. The Republican party itself has already tried to publicly stem the disrespect to Vietnam veterans that has begun. Um, "duder" it's not "my party", as pointed out I'm registered as a Dem with moderate/conservative views, so STFU with your assumptions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2004 Don't worry -- Dems will find ways around this stupid law and then Kerry will say his patriotism is being questioned... How could anyone question his patriotism!? He served in Vietnam! Duder, I dont really think it helps your parties cause to consistently mock the man's service in the Vietnam war. The Republican party itself has already tried to publicly stem the disrespect to Vietnam veterans that has begun. Duder, the Republican Party isn't mocking Kerry's service in the Vietnam conflict (and I think Slapnuts is a Dem -- correct me if I'm wrong). As for me, I doubt my "Did you know that..." is going to change the opinion of any non-Bush voters at TSM. And if Bush should lose the election because a Moleslayer or MarvinisaLunatic voted for Kerry because of my constant Vietnam jokes then I'll gladly take 4 years of Kerry just so I can appear on TV and make a bunch of money on the interview/talk show circuit saying that I cost someone a Presidential election. Of course, Kerry will take all my money away, but at least I'll get chicks... the fuck? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cerebus Report post Posted March 6, 2004 Why the fuck do I even try. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2004 Why the fuck do I even try. No idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cerebus Report post Posted March 6, 2004 Why the fuck do I even try. No idea. Yeah so I take it you read what I posted above? I didn't think so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2004 Why the fuck do I even try. No idea. Yeah so I take it you read what I posted above? I didn't think so. I did. Is it basically saying that the Democrat's anti-Bush ads are illegal with soft money? Obviously they should be... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cerebus Report post Posted March 6, 2004 Why the fuck do I even try. No idea. Yeah so I take it you read what I posted above? I didn't think so. I did. Is it basically saying that the Democrat's anti-Bush ads are illegal with soft money? Obviously they should be... Uh...no not really but I'm sick of this. If you want to REALLY learn about what McCain-Feingold is feel free to PM me, email me, or IM me (it's all down below). If not, just go on the way you're going with your worthless rhetoric. I'm beyond caring at this point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vyce 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2004 Why the fuck do I even try. No idea. Yeah so I take it you read what I posted above? I didn't think so. I did. Is it basically saying that the Democrat's anti-Bush ads are illegal with soft money? Obviously they should be... Uh...no not really but I'm sick of this. If you want to REALLY learn about what McCain-Feingold is feel free to PM me, email me, or IM me (it's all down below). If not, just go on the way you're going with your worthless rhetoric. I'm beyond caring at this point. Duder, do you happen to know where Tyler went? At least his rhetoric seemed a little more....thought out. It seems the intellectual quota of the liberal posters in this folder has dropped significantly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2004 Why the fuck do I even try. No idea. Yeah so I take it you read what I posted above? I didn't think so. I did. Is it basically saying that the Democrat's anti-Bush ads are illegal with soft money? Obviously they should be... Uh...no not really but I'm sick of this. If you want to REALLY learn about what McCain-Feingold is feel free to PM me, email me, or IM me (it's all down below). If not, just go on the way you're going with your worthless rhetoric. I'm beyond caring at this point. Duder, do you happen to know where Tyler went? At least his rhetoric seemed a little more....thought out. It seems the intellectual quota of the liberal posters in this folder has dropped significantly. Im not a liberal...thats time #50 million for the special education class. Its good so see youve chosen to steal ann coulter's philosophy of 'everyone not republican is a liberal', it makes your arguement all the better when you dont even understand the basic concepts and names of the polical parties. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2004 I just wanted to interrupt to ask you guys if I should change the channel to the NRA News Network or Moveon.Org World News. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2004 Duder, do you happen to know where Tyler went? At least his rhetoric seemed a little more....thought out. It seems the intellectual quota of the liberal posters in this folder has dropped significantly. I think Tyler exploded and from him came several other posters. I miss Tyler... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cerebus Report post Posted March 6, 2004 I talked to Tyler a little while ago on AIM and he has a ton of work the poor guy. He hasn't exploded or anything, hopefully he'll be back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
