Raw from JHawk's Beak

[JHawk 0]

Raw from JHawk's Beak (3/29/2004)

 

Once in a while, they even surprise me.

[ANKLELOCK 0]

Benjamites UNITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Whoa.

 

You gave the tag match ***1/4?

 

For what?

 

That match was horrible.

[2GOLD 0]

Screw Angle retiring, I want Flair to retire.

 

He's like a drunk uncle who still heads to the clubs and hits on the 21 year old college students.

 

He's a goof now. And his match quality is getting pathetic to watch. He literally looked confused in that match to me.

[Guest I Got Banned for Sucking]

So Shelton Benjamin is being pushed, huh?

 

I'll wait until Friday night, but I'm super-fucking happy.

 

Sincerely,

A Benjamite

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Liked the review of course, since I was tuning in and out with my ongoing hatred for HHH for shoving himself into the title match at Backlash and making Hurricane & Shelton his bitches.

 

But DAMN. Benjamin winning CLEAN (no interference and no illegal objects = clean) on HHH was the biggest mark-out moment since Wrestlemania. I did NOT expect that.

 

 

Shelton Benjamin for World Champion in 2005!

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

This notion of "clean" is ridiculous. If it was clean, then they wouldn't have had the outside players in it... period.

[Guest wildpegasus]

The finish wasn't clean.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

WWE Clean: No direct interference, false run-ins with music playing, and no weapons.

 

I rest my case. (puts case down)

 

 

Now, CLEAN CLEAN in WWE is pretty much unheard of in these situations so you gotta take what you can get.

[Kurt Angle Mark 0]

The finish wasn't clean.

Which was disappointing. I live in the west coast so I just saw the match, and since everyone said it was clean i couldn't wait to see it. But much to my surprise it wasn't clean, if a guy is distracted by someone or something else outside the ring, then the win isn't clean.

 

However i must say that I did like how Shelton dominated the match and he had a great presence about him. His cocky attitude helped Shelton look like he belonged in the same ring as HHH.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

The finish wasn't clean.

Which was disappointing. I live in the west coast so I just saw the match, and since everyone said it was clean i couldn't wait to see it. But much to my surprise it wasn't clean, if a guy is distracted by someone or something else outside the ring, then the win isn't clean.

 

However i must say that I did like how Shelton dominated the match and he had a great presence about him. His cocky attitude helped Shelton look like he belonged in the same ring as HHH.

The arrogance Benjamin was showig wasn't the heelish kind either, which keeps him over as a face. He was playing "The Game" and simply fought fire with fire.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Wow...being a Benjamite is paying off quicker than I expected.

[King Cucaracha 0]

The finish wasn't clean.

Who cares? Triple H lost to Shelton fuckin' Benjamin! If it were an established upper-mid carder or above, then the interference would have detracted from the result. But it's Shelton Benjamin, who isn't an established upper midcarder...and who, to be honest, most fans wouldn't expect to have a chance against Triple H.

 

The fact HHH lost to Benjamin relatively clean is more than enough for me.

[Scroby 0]

It was as clean as we can get with a HHH match. How does his matches normally end? Someone coming in and hitting him or someone else, or something a lot "dirty" than what happen tonight. Lets all just be happy that Benjamin got put over for the time being.

[Jack_Bauer 0]

HHH didn't put over Chris Benoit, Goldberg or Shawn Michaels here.

 

It was SHELTON BENJAMIN !

 

Is that totally lost on all of the HHHaters on here ?

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

HHH didn't put over Chris Benoit, Goldberg or Shawn Michaels here.

 

It was SHELTON BENJAMIN !

 

Is that totally lost on all of the HHHaters on here ?

Not HHHating from me. In a funny twist during the RAW thread, I did a complete 180 from bad mouthing HHH for making 2 people look like shit and getting his way into the Backlash title match to kissing his BUTT and saying he's had a nice string of very good matches lately and for putting people over.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Wow...being a Benjamite is paying off quicker than I expected.

I've been a Benjamite since his days as a Heat jobber in 2002, so this win was nice to see for once.

 

It's all downhill now unless he does 6-Man Tags with Benoit/HBK vs. Evolution

[Jack_Bauer 0]

I was more annoyed at the piss poor matches that Triple H was involved in for a while.

 

Now that his matches are getting better, then I'm happy.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

I was more annoyed at the piss poor matches that Triple H was involved in for a while.

 

Now that his matches are getting better, then I'm happy.

HHH sucks. Just cause he's putting people over now don't mean its right for him to hold down everyone for 67 years! [/ray mode]

[ChrisMWaters 0]

I will say this...

 

I am proud to have Shelton's autograph!

 

Even if it WAS from when he was still on Smackdown. ^^;

[Fökai 0]

Who's not a Shelton fan at this point?

 

I've liked him ever since his debut on HEAT (All About The Benjamins, Baby!), but that's not saying much because there was a lot of support for Shelton even back in spring of 2002.

[Open the Muggy Gate 0]

*is a Benjamite*

 

I became a Benjamite the first time I saw him hit that Dragon Whip to Shawn Stasiak on an episode of Heat... and now he finally gets a chance to truly shine. BENJAMITES UNITE BABY~!

[Guest Jack Potts]

Personally, I'm elated that they let Shelton Benjamin go over HHH in the Raw main event. The guy is the total package, being a naturally charismatic sports entertainer and a skilled WRESTLER with a deep moveset. I can also see his potential mainstream appeal.

 

However, I can't help but think that the best finish for that match would have been a time limit draw. Benjamin dominated HHH through most of the match. He seemed at ease and confident in the ring with The Game. HHH was rattled. He had been expecting an easy victory and found himself face to face with a formidable opponent. If the match had gone to a time limit draw with both men in mid-grapple, it could have done just as much to get Benjamin over; it would have left a lingering fear and doubt in HHH's mind; and set the stage for a huge PPV match between the two. With the ending as it was, it leaves you to wonder where Benjamin can go from here; and creates a sense of dread about Benjamin's payback/burial.

 

For the record, I'm a tremendous Shelton Benjamin fan. I'm glad they gave him the win and I think it was essential to make him look strong in his Raw debut, but I do wonder if it is too much too soon.

[Guest Choken One]

wwe hasn't had a time limit draw in forever. I'd be all for it.

[Guest Goodear]

Please a time limit draw in this day and age would be crapped on from the highest heavens. It would either lead to one of two horrible options...

 

1) The match just ends at some point and mass confusion reigns. Chants of 'Bullshit' would fill the arena from stem to stern as no one watches wrestling for ties. Much less one that simply pokes its head into the middle of a contest.

 

2) There is a count down to the time limit ending, which would broadcast the ending to the enitre world since WWE never announces time limits anymore. As soon as anyone heard 'Ten minutes' remaining... they would be out the damn door.

 

Draws SUCK.

[nl5xsk1 0]

How about if the match goes to the time limit draw and the show then ends? The fans in the arena chant bullshit so are rewarded with the match restarting with the show off the air. Benjamin then gets the win, but it's not announced on Raw next week because it's not 'official'. Shelton gets the win, but to 95% of the audience it's still undecided.

[Guest Jack Potts]

I think the key to making the time-limit draw scenario work, would be either:

 

A. The two men are standing in mid-grapple when the draw is announced. Both register shock, then Shelton grins and does the "this close" thing. HHH is incensed, knowing he has met his match in the young rookie.

 

B. HHH actually has Benjamin in the Pedigree position when the time limit is called. Benjamin pushes Hunter off and gets in his face, forcefully repeating, "You still couldn't beat me!" with a huge, cocky grin. HHH starts shouting at the ref, turns around and walks into a superkick, or submission, or some nifty looking new finisher Benjamin unveils for the occasion. He taps or Shelton goes for the pin and motions for the crowd to give the three count.

 

Either way, Benjamin comes out looking stronger since the young upstart proved to be the equal of the dangerous, wily veteran.

 

Don't get me wrong, I REALLY liked the way the match ended, but I think the draw option would give them more to work with. It could have put HHH in the unusual position of chasing after Benjamin, not for the title, but out of pride. Benjamin and Hunter could even work other feuds before they finally met again, with JR and Lawler constantly mentioning that dramatic, but unresolved contest the two men had whenever either of them had a match. They could tease us with near confrontations backstage; have HHH force some poor jobber to put on a Benjamin singlet before he beats the crap out of him; show Benjamin with Benoit backstage studying a stack of HHH matches, etc. Finally, after a suspenseful, simmering feud, you could pay it off with a monster blow-off PPV match.

 

Again, this is just fantasy booking. Bottom line: they did the right thing by putting Shelton Benjamin over, regardless of how they did it.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think people are confusing HHHate with clearification. HHH did good last night in his match with Benjamin. He didn't put him over clean. He didn't have to put him over clean because the match and the win were enough to be "put over" (rather than the "job"), but he still didn't put him over clean. "As clean as it could be" is still not clean. Whether or not Benjamin was truly "put over", however, will be seen in the next few weeks. If HHH comes out next week and says "if it wasn't for that cursed Benoit at ringside..." and Benjamin falls down the card fast and hard, then the match meant nothing.

[justsoyouknow 0]

Jhawk, you said something about them building up Shelton's finisher...but there's no way that they'll let him keep the Superkick as a finisher. With HBK as the "#1 face", there's no way that they'll have another face have the same move, otherwise it could make HBK's version look weaker. Personally, I wish there would be more submission finishers...haven't seen any of those in awhile. Back in the day, submissions were put over HUGE, now they're nothing more than transition moves. Benjamin should have some insane submission move (maybe the Dragon Sleeper/Camel Clutch?)

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I was thinkin about a flying armbar

 

The problem with the dragon whip is that it is too contrived. It's a good finisher in that the crowd popped hard for it, but unless it is worked really well into the match, it's going to make the opponent look really, really stupid.