Vanhalen 0 Report post Posted April 5, 2004 Although I was against the war, due to the what seems to be the exagerration of Iraqs threat, and the scary eagerness to go to war by us and america, there is nothing more I would like to see is Iraq get on its feet, and become a good solid State, but events over the last two days seems to indicate the shit has well and truely hit the fan with this Uprising and what seems to be(too early to tell yet, its still ongoing) descent into anarchy US helicopter gunships have been firing at targets in a Shia Muslim district of Baghdad on the second day of a revolt across Iraq by a religious militia. Supporters of radical cleric Moqtada Sadr have been involved in violent protests against the US-led coalition. The coalition accuses Mr Sadr of trying to usurp its power and says the revolt will not be tolerated. US troops also began an offensive in Falluja, a Sunni town where four Americans were killed and mutilated. The protests were triggered by the closure of Mr Sadr's main newspaper a week ago; they intensified after the arrest on Saturday of one of his top aides, Mustafa Yacoubi. We have a group under Moqtada al-Sadr that has basically placed itself outside the legal authorities, the coalition and Iraqi officials US administrator Paul Bremer 'There are a lot of guns around' Many of Iraq's majority Shia Muslims, repressed under Saddam Hussein, welcomed last year's US-led invasion, and attacks on coalition forces were largely confined to the minority Sunni community before Sunday's violence. However, Mr Sadr has become an increasingly outspoken opponent of the occupation. The US administrator in Iraq, Paul Bremer, said on Monday that Mr Sadr's followers had effectively placed themselves outside the law. Ambush Apache gunships targeted militiamen of Mr Sadr's Mehdi Army on the streets of the capital's mainly Shia district of al-Shuala as a battle raged on the ground, correspondents report. One US vehicle was reported to be in flames, but there were no immediate reports of casualties. At least nine coalition soldiers and 46 Iraqis have been killed in confrontations related to the protests. HAVE YOUR SAY The likely outcome will be the same as Yugoslavia after Tito went. Poisoned chalice, anyone? Simon Richardson, London, UK Local resident Abbas Amid told the AFP news agency that fighting had flared after a US troop convoy tried to enter Shuala and came under heavy fire. There was also tension in Sadr City, a district which saw eight US troops and a reported 22 Iraqis killed in Sunday's fighting. American tanks were blocking approaches to the area and soldiers were carrying out vehicle searches as angry protesters gathered again. In Basra, about 150 Mehdi Army members occupied the governor's office at dawn on Monday as part of the protests, but said they were staging a peaceful sit-in. Brief exchanges of gunfire have been reported outside the office with soldiers from the city's UK garrison, but there is no indication of casualties. Four Shia Iraqis were killed in clashes with UK forces in the south-eastern city of Amara on Sunday, while a protest which turned violent near the holy city of Najaf left a coalition soldier from El Salvador dead, along with about 20 Iraqis. Coalition forces arrested Mustafa Yacoubi in connection with the murder last year of a rival cleric, Abdel-Majid al-Khoei, and closed down the Al-Hawza newspaper on the grounds that it was inciting violence. Paul Bremer accused Mr Sadr of seeking to "establish his authority in the place of the legitimate authority". "We have a group under Moqtada al-Sadr that has basically placed itself outside the legal authorities, the coalition and Iraqi officials..." he said in Baghdad. Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, Iraq's leading Shia cleric, appealed for calm and negotiations on Sunday, as a call to "terrorise the enemy" circulated among Moqtada al-Sadr's followers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted April 5, 2004 I hate to be one that goes around screaming that the sky is falling, but I've been getting more and more concerned with the situation over there for quite some time... whatever justification some may think existed in going there and taking over... the fact of the matter is, things are worse in the middle east now than than before, and it will not be getting better any time soon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanhalen 0 Report post Posted April 5, 2004 Well Im watching Sky News right now live and it seems to be just chaos, theres Apache helicopters bombing fuck out of anything that moves, theres about 400 people who have taken over a government building and are firing from the top, there was that huge protest yesterday, where 47 Iraqis and 7 Americans were killed, and that godawful scene where those four poor guys were just mutilated, and we are supposed to hand over soverignty of this country in 2 months time? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanhalen 0 Report post Posted April 5, 2004 Some more info from Sky News US HELICOPTERS MOVE IN US Apache helicopters have sprayed fire on the private army of radical Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al Sadr during fierce battles in a Baghdad district. The fighting erupted when five vehicles carrying US soldiers and the Iraqi Civil Defence Corps tried to enter the district. It is claimed that members of the ICDC, a paramilitary force trained by the Americans, turned on the US soldiers and started to shoot at them. The soldiers fled their vehicles and headed for cover and then began to battle both the Mehdi Army and the ICDC members. Earlier in Baghdad, militia men loyal to al Sadr were involved in clashes in Baghdad in which seven American soldiers died and more than two dozen of their comrades were wounded. Elsewhere, US Marines were reported to have launched an offensive in Fallujah where four US contractors were brutally killed last week. In British-controlled Basra, the governor's office was stormed by hundreds of al Sadr followers demanding the release of an aide. The series of protests by Shia militants is being seen as an alarming development by the US. "We have a group under Moqtada al Sadr that has basically placed itself outside the legal authorities, the coalition and Iraqi officials," said Mr Bremer, head of the Coalition Provisional Authority. Spanish-led troops also fought Sadr supporters in the holy city of Najaf, where at least 20 people were killed, along with one soldier from El Salvador. Four people died in fighting between Sadr militiamen and British soldiers in the southern city of Amara. Two American soldiers and a marine have been killed in three other, separate, attacks. Last Updated: 12:37 UK, Monday April 05, 2004 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted April 5, 2004 It wont happen... and it cant happen. ALOT of people are predicting anarchy and civil war... I even heard an interesting theory the other day that even in 10 years, if we stabilize the region, the risk of civil war is extremely high because of loyal Saddam "pockets" that may continue to wreak havoc for years and years to come Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanhalen 0 Report post Posted April 5, 2004 One last update for the time being, and I wonder how Bush wil speak about this? Coming hot on the heels that Colin Powell admitted that the evidence he gave to the UN was "flawed Hundreds of US and Iraqi troops have surrounded the city US troops have launched a big offensive against Iraqi insurgents in the Sunni flashpoint town of Falluja. They have sealed off the town where four Americans were killed and their bodies mutilated by a mob last week. Unconfirmed reports say several people were killed when a US warplane dropped bombs on a residential area of the town after a mortar attack on troops. The US command has vowed to "pacify" Falluja, where four civilian contractors were killed on Wednesday. Falluja lies in the heartland of resistance to the US-led occupation. Extended operation US troops closed off entrances to Falluja with earth barricades ahead of the planned operation, code named "Vigilant Resolve". About 1,200 marines and two battalions of Iraqi security forces were poised to enter the city to arrest suspected insurgents, Associated Press news agency quoted Lt James Vanzant of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force as saying. "The city is surrounded," Mr Vanzant said. "It's an extended operation. We want to make a very precise approach to this. ... We are looking for the bad guys in town." US aircraft were reported to have struck a residential area in the city, killing many people according to witnesses. There has been no confirmation by the US-led coalition. The operation was to last several days, the US military said. Horrific images The four US contractors - working for Blackwater Security Consulting - were ambushed and killed as they drove through Falluja last Wednesday. An angry crowd surrounded the cars, throwing stones and setting the vehicles ablaze. The corpses were dragged from the wreckage and television pictures showed one burnt body being kicked and stamped on, while at least two were tied to cars and driven through the streets, witnesses said. Adults and children hacked the bodies to pieces, before lynching two of the charred remains from a bridge spanning the Euphrates River. Two of them were hanged from a bridge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanhalen 0 Report post Posted April 5, 2004 LOL, like this is going to diffuse the tension The US-led coalition in Iraq says an arrest warrant has been issued for radical cleric Moqtada Sadr. A coalition spokesman told a news conference in Baghdad that the warrant had been issued in connection with the murder of a rival cleric last year. The statement came on the second day of violent anti-coalition protests across Iraq by Mr Sadr's supporters. US helicopter gunships targeted militia members loyal to Mr Sadr in the mainly Shia district of al-Shuala in Baghdad. Coalition officials told a news conference in Baghdad that the arrest warrant had been drawn up by an Iraqi judge and would be executed "without advance warning". Mr Sadr has denied any involvement in the killing of Abdel-Majid al-Khoei in Najaf in April last year. The coalition accuses Mr Sadr of trying to usurp its power and says the revolt will not be tolerated. US troops also began an offensive in Falluja, a Sunni town where four Americans were killed and mutilated. The protests were triggered by the closure of Mr Sadr's main newspaper a week ago; they intensified after the arrest on Saturday of one of his top aides, Mustafa Yacoubi. We have a group under Moqtada al-Sadr that has basically placed itself outside the legal authorities, the coalition and Iraqi officials US administrator Paul Bremer In pictures: Shia revolt 'There are a lot of guns around' Many of Iraq's majority Shia Muslims, repressed under Saddam Hussein, welcomed last year's US-led invasion, and attacks on coalition forces were largely confined to the minority Sunni community before Sunday's violence. However, Mr Sadr has become an increasingly outspoken opponent of the occupation. The US administrator in Iraq, Paul Bremer, said on Monday that Mr Sadr's followers had effectively placed themselves outside the law. Ambush Apache gunships targeted militiamen of Mr Sadr's Mehdi Army on the streets of the capital's mainly Shia district of al-Shuala as a battle raged on the ground, correspondents report. One US vehicle was reported to be in flames, but there were no immediate reports of casualties. At least nine coalition soldiers and 46 Iraqis have been killed in confrontations related to the protests. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted April 5, 2004 LOL, like this is going to diffuse the tension What should they be doing in a situation like this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michrome 0 Report post Posted April 5, 2004 Raze the city. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted April 5, 2004 LOL, like this is going to diffuse the tension What should they be doing in a situation like this? Well, Im glad they ordered the assassination, but its NOT going to help things either way... it's sort of a catch 22 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Baron 0 Report post Posted April 5, 2004 and a tree falls in the forest. so what? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OctoberBlood Report post Posted April 5, 2004 Are you fucking kidding me Baron? Get rid of that sig. PLEASE. That's like wallpaper size. Ok, back to the discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest hunger4unger Report post Posted April 5, 2004 What a mess. It's difficult to offer an opinion on this - we are killing civilians accidently by bombing and attacking sites whilst attempting to secure the areas which in turn will only fuel more hatred. Looking at the bigger picture, I admit, it's great that Saddam is gone. At the moment i'm not sure that the Iraqi people would whole heartedly agree. It's def a catch 22 situation. Handing over control to an Iraqi government at this stage is impossible. I know i'm usually full of anti-Bush and anti-war rhetoric but with this i'm just in a daze. Perhaps it should have been predicted that there would be an uprising on this scale. I don't know. My thoughts are with our troops and their families. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted April 6, 2004 Raze the city. God I hope that's a (bad) joke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanhalen 0 Report post Posted April 6, 2004 Are you fucking kidding me Baron? Get rid of that sig. PLEASE. That's like wallpaper size. Ok, back to the discussion. I dont have a sig mate, or an avatar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted April 6, 2004 LOL, like this is going to diffuse the tension What should they be doing in a situation like this? Put the whole city in a time-out until they say they're sorry... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted April 6, 2004 I think they need and entire nation wide spanking... is there a rule against that outlined in the geneva convention?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted April 6, 2004 speaking of whats going on at this moment in time.... could there be a more ridiculously stupid name, than "operation: vigilant resolve" ? It's like the pulled it out of a grab bag of operational terms... you know, pull two pieces of paper out of a hat, and match them up... of course, the possibilities are endless operation: vigilant freedom operation: eduring vigilant freedom operation: vigilant enduring freedom operation: sustaining liberty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SideFXs Report post Posted April 6, 2004 1998, Operation: Desert Fox. Ironically, not one tank was used in that one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted April 6, 2004 Desert Fox doesnt sound so bad when compared to recent operations... its like whoever comes up with the names, listens very very closely to the typical Dubyah speech... keywords: liberty... freedom... jesus... hey! Operation: Eduring Jesus? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Agent of Oblivion Report post Posted April 6, 2004 How about Operation: Blow them the fuck up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest OctoberBlood Report post Posted April 6, 2004 Are you fucking kidding me Baron? Get rid of that sig. PLEASE. That's like wallpaper size. Ok, back to the discussion. I dont have a sig mate, or an avatar And therefore I wasn't speaking to you. "RedBaron". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted April 6, 2004 Didn't the shit hit the fan back in March of `03? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Astro Report post Posted April 7, 2004 A classmate and friend of mine was killed over the weekend in Iraq. Fuck this, Vietnam V. 2.0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Astro Report post Posted April 7, 2004 As for the war in Iraq, Kennedy called it Bush's Vietnam. He said Bush lied about nuclear weapons in Iraq and the country's link to al-Qaida. The war has alienated allies and made the fight against terrorism harder, Kennedy said. With Bush, he said, "truth is the first casualty of policy." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob E Dangerously 0 Report post Posted April 7, 2004 and the US shot a rocket at a mosque, killing 40. Ooh, i'm sure that will go over well with the Iraqis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stephen Joseph 0 Report post Posted April 7, 2004 (edited) I'd hardly call this Vietnam. Vietnam was every local newspaper reporting local dead every day, not all newspapers reporting the same 5 dead. Vietnam, in my mind, refers to when politicians tell the generals how to wage war, where to strike, and how to do it. I don't see that kind of micromanagement here Edited April 7, 2004 by Stephen Joseph Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vern Gagne 0 Report post Posted April 7, 2004 As for the war in Iraq, Kennedy called it Bush's Vietnam. He said Bush lied about nuclear weapons in Iraq and the country's link to al-Qaida. The war has alienated allies and made the fight against terrorism harder, Kennedy said. With Bush, he said, "truth is the first casualty of policy." Sorry about your friend. But I truely believe he was killed for a worthy cause. Not only for the people of Iraq, but the entire free word. Those are stupid and unsafe comments. A man with Kennedy's stature, needs to know calling this Bush's Vietnam can hurt morale with the troops, and give the enemy an idea we're weak and what they are doing is working. Many Vietnam Vets say the lack of support at home plaeyd a great role in losing the war. Also, a majority of troops believe in the cause they are fighting for, and many in Iraq, and those who have returned have talked about the progress that's been made in Iraq. He can hold these positions, but his words go beyond unseating the President. Which IMO..is the only reason he's making these comments. To help his friend John Kerry win the election. Our so called Allies, refused to participate Oh, and let's not forget how well Spain's promise to remove troops worked. Know the same group says Spain must leave Afghanistan has well. Nothing but killing or capturing these people will work. As for hurting the fight with Al Qaeda and capturing OBL or any other high ranking official. I don't see it. Large traditional military operations aren't needed in the hunt for Bin Laden, and Al Qaeda. A swift and efficient elite commando force and predatory unmanned drones are needed, not tanks and cruise missiles. As for making the War on Terror more difficult. That's not the case at all. We're at War, against these people and by having the War on Terror being fought in Iraq, it greatly reduces the possibility of attacks on U.S. soil. It's horrible when a soldier is killed, but we're at War, and leaving Iraq only will help the terrorists and hurt the people of Iraq. Which by the way an overwhelming majority were supportive the removal of Hussein, and want to be a free country. Sadly, the minority in the Sunni Triangle and radical elements backed by the Shiites in Iran are being more vocal and more deadly. I do think we need to go out full force when dealing with these terrorists. It was also a mistake to let these Iranain backed Jr. Ayatollah's militia to remain armed, and the city of Fallujah should of been dealt with a year ago. Not everything is perfect, and work needs to be done, but if you don't deal with these people know you may have to deal with them later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jobber of the Week 0 Report post Posted April 7, 2004 Well, can we now say that they did, indeed, bring it on? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vyce 0 Report post Posted April 7, 2004 Don't be a fucking prick, Jobber. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
