Gamefaqs- Best. Game. Ever tourney

[AndrewTS 0]

I say they're good. You say they're not. Somehow your word is like god....so I lose.

 

The idea of FFVII being the best RPG ever is so blatantly, obviously incorrect that I fail to see how anyone could hold that viewpoint.

 

So?

 

Block button in 2D fighter = bad

Block button in 3D fighter = good

 

Well, at least in my opinion, and in the opinion of many a game developer, because even a great deal of the MK clones avoided a block button, despite copying most of its other elements.

 

The same goes with SF II. The game that does it the best and enough to get noticed is the game that gets credit for innovating, the way it always is.

 

...that is relevant to me talking about MK being the most popular of the games that got the senators and parent groups in an uproar how, exactly?

 

Oh, and those MK clones--a bunch of half-ass, mediocre fighters with lots of blood thrown in just scream quality, don't they?

 

EC CD I suppose was good, and...um...

 

It uses SF II's button layout and other things, but KI's presentation and retaliation heavy gameplay is pure MK. Plus KI is really good.

 

"Retaliation heavy gameplay?" What the hell does that mean?

 

You should have just said "it has juggles, too."

 

Look at gaming pre MK and post MK.

 

If you cannot see the difference in the content, popularity and amount of mature games after it's release, the congressional hearing and the ratings system then I don't know what to tell you.

 

Because without MK, it would have never have happened. Yup.

 

There were console and PC games of the sort that were raising the questinn on content ratings already. MK was just the major console game that was a part of the equation. If it hadn't been MK, there would have been another game that would have played the same role and the result was an inevitability anyway.

[Anya 0]

The idea of FFVII being the best RPG ever is so blatantly, obviously incorrect that I fail to see how anyone could hold that viewpoint.

 

 

Best GAME ever. Not just RPG!

 

 

 

Well, at least in my opinion, and in the opinion of many a game developer, because even a great deal of the MK clones avoided a block button, despite copying most of its other elements.

 

 

A lot of them did use it though.

 

 

 

 

...that is relevant to me talking about MK being the most popular of the games that got the senators and parent groups in an uproar how, exactly?

 

 

Because it's the same thing with SF II. SF II wasn't the first fighting game. It wasn't the first game to play like that. But it was the first to be really good and get noticed. Therefor it gets the credit.

 

 

 

Oh, and those MK clones--a bunch of half-ass, mediocre fighters with lots of blood thrown in just scream quality, don't they?

 

 

Many MK clones have been really good and very successful.

 

 

 

"Retaliation heavy gameplay?" What the hell does that mean?

 

 

Both MK/MK II and KI have a heavy emphasis on turtling and retaliation.

 

 

You should have just said "it has juggles, too."

 

 

I don't think it's got enough emphasis on juggles to mention it.

 

 

 

 

Because without MK, it would have never have happened. Yup.

 

 

There were console and PC games of the sort that were raising the questinn on content ratings already. MK was just the major console game that was a part of the equation. If it hadn't been MK, there would have been another game that would have played the same role and the result was an inevitability anyway.

 

 

Without any "but...."s did you not see a major change in the industry once MK came out? Yes or no? After the release of MK were there not more and more violent games released? Yes? No?

 

Obviously yes.

 

 

Other games were violent then. Maybe one of them would have caught on. Maybe something else would have been created to start the revoltion.

 

THE SAME APPLIES WITH STREET FIGHTER II.

 

Maybe one of the other crappy fighting games out then would have caught on. Maybe some other great fighting game would have come out had SF II not.

 

Who knows? The fact is MK did come out, MK did get big, MK did cause a congressional hearing, MK did cause Nintendo to change it's business practices, MK did and MK did usher more mature themed games.

 

You can play the "maybe someone else would have done it" card all day for any revolution in just about anything, even outside games.

 

MK did it. MK gets the credit.

 

 

Stop the spin and damage control and just admit it: A game you hate is an important part of video game history.

 

 

The whole point was that MK being influencial doesn't automatically make it good, so I don't know why you're desperatly trying to downplay it's importance.

[AndrewTS 0]

Best GAME ever. Not just RPG!

 

Exactly, it fails to even win that battle, so obviously THAT ^ is even more ridiculous.

 

Because it's the same thing with SF II. SF II wasn't the first fighting game. It wasn't the first game to play like that. But it was the first to be really good and get noticed. Therefor it gets the credit.

 

Popularity based on gameplay, as opposed to stirring the pot on a sensitive issue like censorship. The first MK, if it had to be judged on its own merits without the controversy or the fatalities, etc., wouldn't had the same influence, i.e. more flash than substance.

 

Who knows? The fact is MK did come out, MK did get big, MK did cause a congressional hearing, MK did cause Nintendo to change it's business practices, MK did and MK did usher more mature themed games.

 

You can play the "maybe someone else would have done it" card all day for any revolution in just about anything, even outside games.

 

Because I'd prefer to give credit and props to games that actually changed something for the positive. You said yourself there were other games behind the controversy, and if MK had just been eliminated from that lineup, it wouldn't have changed much. Hell, even Japan is getting their own ratings system now.

 

SFII's influence was mainly for the game itself, and MK's influence had little to do with the actual game, just its violence content. That's the point.

 

SFII brought exceptional gameplay quality in fighters to the forefront. That wasn't what the hubbub over MK was about.

 

SFII's influence was positive. MK just happened to be hanging around when angry parents needed a scapegoat for their shitty parenting, and its influence led to a bunch of game companies thinking they could half-ass it on gameplay if they had violence. That's a negative influence, one that counts against a game as far as I'm concerned. Don't try to deny that plenty of games were cashing in on a trend and using violence as a crutch to prop them up because the game quality was poor.

 

Now we have games that actually use violence other than a cheap gimmick because of the realism of the games, and to think they couldn't have done that if not for a lousy,old,clunky fighting game is what you're implying.

 

I'll plead guilty to not wanting to give "credit" to games I believe are overrated pieces of crap, however. Especially when I don't think their influence is something to be thankful for. I'll try to correct that. For exampe, thank you so much for popularizing cinematic dreck posing as video games, Square.

 

On a gameplay note, I have no idea if juggles were even in MK1. You would know...

[Renegade 0]

Both MK/MK II and KI have a heavy emphasis on turtling and retaliation.

 

The fuck? You like turtling in fighting games?

[Use Your Illusion 0]

The fuck is 'turtling'?

[Anya 0]

Popularity based on gameplay, as opposed to stirring the pot on a sensitive issue like censorship.  The first MK, if it had to be judged on its own merits without the controversy or the fatalities, etc., wouldn't had the same influence, i.e. more flash than substance.

 

 

 

MK's violence is it's merits. Flash over substance is what MK is about. Even Ed Boon says that, so obviously taking away the violence would take away it's influence. The influencial aspect of MK not being part of the gameplay doesn't really matter. There's more to games than just "gameplay". Presentation, music, story...many things come into play. Just like in movies there's more to them than just the script, or just the acting.

 

 

But none of this matters. The point was that a game being influencial doesn't automatically make it good. All of this stuff you're saying is just agreeing with me.

 

 

 

You said yourself there were other games behind the controversy, and if MK had just been eliminated from that lineup, it wouldn't have changed much.

 

 

Indeed there were other games. They should get credit too.

 

But MK was the biggest one, and so it gets the most credit.

 

 

We'll never know what would have happened had Joe Lieberman not seen MK. Like I said before, we can play the "maybe" game all day....the fact is MK is what ended up starting the revolution.

 

 

 

Don't try to deny that plenty of games were cashing in on a trend and using violence as a crutch to prop them up because the game quality was poor.

 

 

And? SF II had it's share of bad clones as well.

 

 

I'll plead guilty to not wanting to give "credit" to games I believe are overrated pieces of crap, however.

 

 

Especially when I don't think their influence is something to be thankful for.  I'll try to correct that.  For exampe, thank you so much for popularizing cinematic dreck posing as video games, Square

 

 

Meanwhile you're pissed at Gamefaqs users being biased?

 

 

 

Now we have games that actually use violence other than a cheap gimmick because of the realism of the games, and to think they couldn't have done that if not for a lousy,old,clunky fighting game is what you're implying.

 

 

Implying? I think I've made it pretty clear MK paved the way for other violent games.

 

 

 

On a gameplay note, I have no idea if juggles were even in MK1. You would know...

 

 

They're in.

 

 

 

The fuck? You like turtling in fighting games?

 

 

It was the early 90's....

 

Part of the reason I like KI2 and MK3 over KI and MK II is the faster paced, more aggressive gameplay though. So no.

[Guest Askewniverse]

What was the hockey game Brody was playing when his girlfriend left him in Mallrats?  NHL 94?

I'm not sure, but I think Brodie was playing a non-EA hockey game. I'll have to check to make sure, but Brodie might have been using a Saturn controller.

 

The idea of FFVII being the best RPG ever is so blatantly, obviously incorrect that I fail to see how anyone could hold that viewpoint.

Best GAME ever. Not just RPG!

Best game ever? In my opinion, FF VII isn't even the best PlayStation game.

 

I've had people tell me "Even if you hate RPGs, you'll like FF VII." I tried FF VII and I hated it. I hated how the battles came out of nowhere. Where the hell did those enemies come from? I've mentioned it before, but the turn-based combat system really pisses me off. Why the hell should I stand there like a moron while the enemy bitch-slaps me? There is nothing good about a turn-based combat sytem. The Final Fantasy series (as well as RPGs in general) may the most overrated games ever.

[Lightning Flik 0]

The Final Fantasy series (as well as RPGs in general) may the most overrated games ever.

Seriously, how are RPGs as a whole overrated? Don't just tag something if you aren't going to back it up. Clamping a tag on RPGs as a whole and not explaining anything and using FF as example is a poor defensive arguement.

 

And Final Fantasy is certainly not the most overrated gaming series out there.

 

There are plenty of good RPGs, and some of them aren't turn based but real-time. If you like real-time so much, why not get KotoR or the upcoming game Sudeki? Just because you don't like turn-based ones, does not mean you have to sour on the whole bunch. If you don't like the genre itself fine, I can understand that. Just don't take it into an discussion and present it in a way that it comes off as fact.

[Guest Askewniverse]

The Final Fantasy series (as well as RPGs in general) may the most overrated games ever.

Seriously, how are RPGs as a whole overrated? Don't just tag something if you aren't going to back it up. Clamping a tag on RPGs as a whole and not explaining anything and using FF as example is a poor defensive arguement.

I was talking about how RPGs are portrayed at the GameFAQs boards. Wasn't that what this topic originally turned into? A discussion about the bias at GameFAQs? Over there, RPGs can seemingly do no wrong. From what I've read, anyone who doesn't like RPGs are either (a) called idiots or (b) accused of flaming.

 

Just because you don't like turn-based ones, does not mean you have to sour on the whole bunch. If you don't like the genre itself fine, I can understand that. Just don't take it into an discussion and present it in a way that it comes off as fact.

I wasn't trying to present it as a fact. If it came across that way, I apologize. I thought it was clear that I was stating my opinion. I thought it would be redundant to add "in my opinion" before each statement, which is why I didn't.

[Lightning Flik 0]

The Final Fantasy series (as well as RPGs in general) may the most overrated games ever.

Seriously, how are RPGs as a whole overrated? Don't just tag something if you aren't going to back it up. Clamping a tag on RPGs as a whole and not explaining anything and using FF as example is a poor defensive arguement.

I was talking about how RPGs are portrayed at the GameFAQs boards. Wasn't that what this topic originally turned into? A discussion about the bias at GameFAQs? Over there, RPGs can seemingly do no wrong. From what I've read, anyone who doesn't like RPGs are either (a) called idiots or (b) accused of flaming.

 

Just because you don't like turn-based ones, does not mean you have to sour on the whole bunch. If you don't like the genre itself fine, I can understand that. Just don't take it into an discussion and present it in a way that it comes off as fact.

I wasn't trying to present it as a fact. If it came across that way, I apologize. I thought it was clear that I was stating my opinion. I thought it would be redundant to add "in my opinion" before each statement, which is why I didn't.

Sorry about that. I thought you were meaning here. Sakura and Andrew got off on their own subject of talking about gaming stuff, so I thought we had drifted away from the subject at hand. My bad.

 

If you were meaning over at Gamefaqs, I'll agree with you. It is utterly asinine as to how they treat RPGs as best genre (although, I'd agree with that statement myself).

 

As for the comment thingy, I kinda realized it was your own opinion afterall, so sorry about that as well. I just saw that, and kinda replied and didn't really take the time to think over it hard.

[AndrewTS 0]

MK's violence is it's merits. Flash over substance is what MK is about. Even Ed Boon says that, so obviously taking away the violence would take away it's influence....

But none of this matters. The point was that a game being influencial doesn't automatically make it good. All of this stuff you're saying is just agreeing with me.

 

When you're talking about a game's quality, which is what the whole point is, no one cares about the violence, unless they're so immature that makes it a selling point. Liking games for their "mature" content is pretty damn immature, and if a game relies on its violence as it's total merit, it doesn't deserve acclaim as a good game. See: Manhunt. At least the vastly overrated GTA3 has some decent gameplay hidden amongst all the hype.

 

There's more to games than just "gameplay". Presentation, music, story...many things come into play. Just like in movies there's more to them than just the script, or just the acting.

 

In games, gameplay is THE most important thing, bar none. Without that, nothing else matters. Likening games to movies is EXACTLY why games suck so much right now, because little or no attention is focused on gameplay. Xeno games, for instance--because of the "auteurs" behind it, we have a mess of a game with some decent gameplay, but that is conpletely undermined because of the pretentious crap the developers shovel up with gusto.

 

Worst of all, is when they can't even get the thing they focused so much time and attention on correctly, i.e. those "epic" games like MGS2 and Xenosaga.

 

We'll never know what would have happened had Joe Lieberman not seen MK. Like I said before, we can play the "maybe" game all day....the fact is MK is what ended up starting the revolution.

 

...

 

Implying? I think I've made it pretty clear MK paved the way for other violent games.

 

Bull. Absolute bull. You make it sound as if MK hasn't been around, it never would have happened. Sorry, I am not buying that.

 

And? SF II had it's share of bad clones as well.

 

I'm dying to know what all of the high-quality MK knockoffs are supposed to be. You argued KI, which is influenced heavily by SFII as well, and you might even argue Eternal Champions, which is the same deal. Where are the good ones that mainly copied MK?

 

Meanwhile you're pissed at Gamefaqs users being biased?

 

No, I laugh at their stupidity and their ignorance. Big difference, there.

 

I hated VII-IX, Tactics Advance, and for good reasons. The rest of their games don't even deserve me giving them a chance, because their marketing campaigns drive me away in disgust.

 

It's funny how much they suck up to Square even when Square insults them, such as in both the Tactics Advance and FFX-2 games, as well as the advertising.

 

And Final Fantasy is certainly not the most overrated gaming series out there.

 

I'm dying to know what would be then, because they're certainly the most overrated gaming series on GameFAQs. GTA kind of escapes on a technicality, since no one cared about the series until GTA3.

 

I somewhat agree on the hatred of turn-based RPGs. So many of them, despite all the graphical improvements, are still unbelievably primitive and boring gameplay-wise: select "fight" over and over, occasionally select Magic, there MIGHT be some rudimentary strategy involved in boss battles or against strong enemies, but that's usually rare.

 

The only recent Square game I don't absolutely loathe is Kingdom Hearts, because they actually tried something different and cool, instead of having the same basic gameplay I got annoyed with long ago.

[Lightning Flik 0]

And Final Fantasy is certainly not the most overrated gaming series out there.

 

I'm dying to know what would be then, because they're certainly the most overrated gaming series on GameFAQs. GTA kind of escapes on a technicality, since no one cared about the series until GTA3.

 

I somewhat agree on the hatred of turn-based RPGs. So many of them, despite all the graphical improvements, are still unbelievably primitive and boring gameplay-wise: select "fight" over and over, occasionally select Magic, there MIGHT be some rudimentary strategy involved in boss battles or against strong enemies, but that's usually rare.

 

The only recent Square game I don't absolutely loathe is Kingdom Hearts, because they actually tried something different and cool, instead of having the same basic gameplay I got annoyed with long ago.

I'm saying that the whole Final Fantasy series can not be said to be overrated. A certain selection of the series may be called that, but otherwise no.

 

Two series that are overrated:

Pokemon

Mega Man X (not game 10, the series staring Mega Man Clone, X)

 

As for turn base, I don't blame anyone for saying that it is boring gameplay wise. I actually agree that we need to get rid of the ATB (Active Time Battle) system and progress onward. Problem is, ATB has been around for so long, it will take something that isn't highly flawed or supremely flimsy to get us to ditch the ATB system.

 

I hear that Sudeki uses a system where it is still ATB, but within real-time. Hard to explain, because I suck at explanations, but it more or less might take out the old "classic" system.

 

I liked Kingdom Hearts for that too. Very nicely done game, can't wait for Kingdom Hearts 2.

[AndrewTS 0]

Two series that are overrated:

Pokemon

Mega Man X (not game 10, the series staring Mega Man Clone, X)

 

Pokeman I can't speak for, but mainly younger kids are the ones really into it. Oh, and Alex Lucard from 411mania. He has some insane fanboyism going for the games.

 

Nearly all of the X games are good games, and when they are reviewed, critics and players alike take the lesser games to task--X6 and X7 mainly. The overrated ones would have to be X3 and maybe X2, because hardly anyone played them. The first X games on SNES is probably the best game in the series as far as I'm concerned, and is a great game in its own right.

 

Final Fantasy from about 4-5 onward is tremendously overrated, though.

 

 

As for turn base, I don't blame anyone for saying that it is boring gameplay wise. I actually agree that we need to get rid of the ATB (Active Time Battle) system and progress onward. Problem is, ATB has been around for so long, it will take something that isn't highly flawed or supremely flimsy to get us to ditch the ATB system.

 

I hear that Sudeki uses a system where it is still ATB, but within real-time. Hard to explain, because I suck at explanations, but it more or less might take out the old "classic" system.

 

It's easy to ditch if you don't have to have a party that is fully controlled by a single player. Otherwise it's tricky, although if they take full advantage of all the buttons you could have other party members attack/defend while still controlling the main character. Wouldn't hurt to have "Raged" style fighters who act independently or have an attack pattern set at the start of a fight, though.

 

I liked Kingdom Hearts for that too. Very nicely done game, can't wait for Kingdom Hearts 2.

 

There's actually two new Kingdom Hearts games-- Chain of Memories for GBA (prequel) and a PS2 sequel. Sadly, they've been pushed back and it doesn't seem Square it too committed to it, which really annoys me since they're instead focusing on games I don't give a damn about. Plus, supposedly the original KH team isn't going to be doing it.

 

*sigh*

[Anya 0]

When you're talking about a game's quality, which is what the whole point is, no one cares about the violence, unless they're so immature that makes it a selling point. Liking games for their "mature" content is pretty damn immature, and if a game relies on its violence as it's total merit, it doesn't deserve acclaim as a good game. See: Manhunt. At least the vastly overrated GTA3 has some decent gameplay hidden amongst all the hype.

 

 

MK is fun to play too.

 

 

Bull. Absolute bull. You make it sound as if MK hasn't been around, it never would have happened. Sorry, I am not buying that.

 

 

But you do buy that without SF II nobody would have ever made a good fighting game?

 

 

 

In games, gameplay is THE most important thing, bar none. Without that, nothing else matters. Likening games to movies is EXACTLY why games suck so much right now, because little or no attention is focused on gameplay.

 

 

Speak for yourself. I for one find games to be much better now than they were in the olden days.

 

 

 

I'm dying to know what all of the high-quality MK knockoffs are supposed to be. You argued KI, which is influenced heavily by SFII as well, and you might even argue Eternal Champions, which is the same deal. Where are the good ones that mainly copied MK?

 

 

Good ones........or good ones Andrew likes?

 

 

 

 

No, I laugh at their stupidity and their ignorance. Big difference, there.

 

 

Voting for something because it's Square is biased. Just like not giving something credit because you don't like it is biased.

 

 

It's funny how much they suck up to Square even when Square insults them, such as in both the Tactics Advance and FFX-2 games, as well as the advertising.

 

 

 

How do they insult us in X-2 or advertising? X-2 wasn't insulting, it was cool.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I love turned based RPGs so I think you are taking things too far. There is room in the marketplace for both turned-based and real-time RPGs, just like with strategy (Warcraft vs. Civilization).

 

Most of the FFs are overrated purely because of the amount of hype they get. Probably the only ones that aren't are V (which isn't talked about much) and VI (the best RPG ever made). Overhyped is probably a better word. The only truly overrated ones in terms of people who actually played them and critiqued them are VII & X. VIII wasn't very good and most people knew it. IX is underrated, if anything. It was the most true to the original concept of the Playstation era. FFT, not FFTAdvance, is extremely underrated as evidenced by Delita Hyral getting beat by generic Chrono Trigger character Queen Zeal in our villains poll.

[AndrewTS 0]

For Xenosaga, just re-do some of the cutscenes into FMVs, give chaos a little bit more character development, don't change KOS-MOS into Deus at the end of the story, and I will happily put it on the pedestal of "Best RPG of All Time".

 

Until then, Xenogears is still the best. Graphic-wise it was pathetic compared with other, more modern RPGs. Story-wise, screw LOTR, screw even most fantasy and science fiction...

 

^ The level of unbelievable stupidity you find at GameFAQs, and that's probably one of the more intelligent posters there. The stupidest ones have compared some of these RPGs to Shakespeare. Good Lord...

 

Most of the FFs are overrated purely because of the amount of hype they get. Probably the only ones that aren't are V (which isn't talked about much) and VI (the best RPG ever made).

 

Until FFV was available in English, it was extremely overrated, with the the import snobs telling people how much it was the bestest RPG around!

 

I don't buy VI as the best RPG ever made, because I think the gameplay has gotten very archaic, the story is now cliche and out of date, and gameplay and story in FFIV has certain advantages over FFVI.

 

Overhyped is probably a better word. The only truly overrated ones in terms of people who actually played them and critiqued them are VII & X.

 

Okay, I'll buy that.

 

IX is underrated, if anything. It was the most true to the original concept of the Playstation era.

 

I liked a lot about IX, Vivi included, of course, but the gameplay was really getting boring by that time. Tetra Master was fun for a while, I'll admit, but I hate when crap like that is necessary to get really good items.

 

Plus, PlayOnline was one of the most boneheaded ideas Square ever devised.

 

FFT, not FFTAdvance, is extremely underrated as evidenced by Delita Hyral getting beat by generic Chrono Trigger character Queen Zeal in our villains poll.

 

Ironically, one of the best Square games released in a long time wasn't really a Square game.

 

Despite being a big fan of Chrono Trigger, I know its major flaw is that the characters usually are pretty unremarkable, cliched, and sketchy on backstory. It's far less story-driven than most of the RPGs out there, but that's one reason why I like it, that and the gameplay.

 

That being said, I played FFT, I enjoyed it, but got far too bored to actually get to the point where Delita did anything notable, soooo...

 

Although out of those that played FFT, I've almost never seen a bad review.

 

Sakura:

But you do buy that without SF II nobody would have ever made a good fighting game?

 

Nope--what made you come up with that conclusion? I think it would have definitely happened, although I'd imagine it would be a more realistic, Virtua-Fighter esque game than the unrealistic gameplay of SFII, filled with moves no real person could actually perform. I'm imagine without SFII the first big one-on-one fighting game would be a variation on a side-scrolling beat 'em up, with gameplay a bit more complex than your Final Fights or Double Dragons.

 

Judging by the way that arcade scene was evolving, that's a perfectly logical conclusion.

 

What you're telling me is without those visionaries Boon and Tobias, that blood and gore in console games would be a taboo that would never be broken. Nope, I simply do not buy it.

 

Voting for something because it's Square is biased. Just like not giving something credit because you don't like it is biased.

 

Thing is, I admitted it.

 

How do they insult us in X-2 or advertising? X-2 wasn't insulting, it was cool.

 

The advertising was focused on...pop music and the girls in skimpy outfits.

 

The game was to an extent as well, and of course we got--oh boy, costume changes and fanservice and yeeeeeeech.

 

It seems to be pandering to to the TRLish female crowd while simultaneously trying to lure in pathetic pimple-faced teen boys with scantily-clad CG women. Absolutely shameless.

 

It also appears to me Square flushed its last vestiges of artistic integrity when they decided to make sequels to FFX and FFVII--although one isn't in the game medium.

[Agent_Bond34 0]

^ The level of unbelievable stupidity you find at GameFAQs, and that's probably one of the more intelligent posters there. The stupidest ones have compared some of these RPGs to Shakespeare. Good Lord...

You want stupidity from GameFAQs, check this out... i have no clue if this moron is kidding or not.

 

If you don't own Final Fantasy III (VI in Japan), then your collection gets a 0 out of 10, no matter what. Even if you hate RPGs and would rather die than every own one. You still get a 0 out of 10.

[AndrewTS 0]

^ The level of unbelievable stupidity you find at GameFAQs, and that's probably one of the more intelligent posters there.  The stupidest ones have compared some of these RPGs to Shakespeare.  Good Lord...

You want stupidity from GameFAQs, check this out... i have no clue if this moron is kidding or not.

 

If you don't own Final Fantasy III (VI in Japan), then your collection gets a 0 out of 10, no matter what. Even if you hate RPGs and would rather die than every own one. You still get a 0 out of 10.

Doesn't sound like he's kidding.

 

Naturally, he feels the need to put both names there.

 

Although I'm reminded of a female poster that thought that MK was going up against two different Final Fantasy games (PinkJenny or something). Either she was a complete dolt or absolutely brilliant, because watching the posts of Square fanboys freak out was hilarious.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

^ The level of unbelievable stupidity you find at GameFAQs, and that's probably one of the more intelligent posters there. The stupidest ones have compared some of these RPGs to Shakespeare. Good Lord...

 

FFT is a tragedy that is based somewhat from Shakespearean plays like Macbeth. To compare them in terms of content is one thing. To compare them in terms of quality is idiotic.

 

Until FFV was available in English, it was extremely overrated, with the the import snobs telling people how much it was the bestest RPG around!

 

Yeah, but now that it was made available in the US long after it it was made, the new brand of cinematic RPG fans don't care for it. It used to be overrated, but now it is underrated.

 

I don't buy VI as the best RPG ever made, because I think the gameplay has gotten very archaic, the story is now cliche and out of date, and gameplay and story in FFIV has certain advantages over FFVI.

 

I'm curious to why you think the gameplay in FFIV is better when it is basically the same thing as in every other FF game, and FFVI is less linear. Storywise I completely disagree. The whole idea with all the villains being really good guys under control of this guy you don't see til the end always annoys me. It is as true here as it is in VIII, only it isn't as boring. I will just assume it is personal opinion, but I would like an explanation to the gameplay question.

 

I liked a lot about IX, Vivi included, of course, but the gameplay was really getting boring by that time. Tetra Master was fun for a while, I'll admit, but I hate when crap like that is necessary to get really good items.

 

Plus, PlayOnline was one of the most boneheaded ideas Square ever devised.

 

Yep. I won't hold the PlayOnline thing against the game itself though, only the company.

 

The gameplay is nothing really new, so if you're tired of it, there isn't much I can say. I still happen to enjoy it. The game is still better than VII or VIII, with a much better job/magic system than either of those and better characters (which you seem to agree with).

 

Nothing much to say about your FFT or Chrono Trigger comments. I do like the Magus character from CT, but he's really the only standout. Maybe Frog.

 

GameFAQs is terrible. You should check out the MVP 2004 boards. Most of the posts are either complaining about Bonds not being in the game or how they can't hit HRs every at bat.

[AndrewTS 0]

FFT is a tragedy that is based somewhat from Shakespearean plays like Macbeth. To compare them in terms of content is one thing. To compare them in terms of quality is idiotic.

 

That game isn't usually the one referred to when talking about RPGs, usually it's one of the Final Fantasy games and the Xenos. Ugh.

 

I'm curious to why you think the gameplay in FFIV is better when it is basically the same thing as in every other FF game, and FFVI is less linear. Storywise I completely disagree. The whole idea with all the villains being really good guys under control of this guy you don't see til the end always annoys me. It is as true here as it is in VIII, only it isn't as boring. I will just assume it is personal opinion, but I would like an explanation to the gameplay question.

 

I said there were some advantages over it that FFVI is lacking. So it isn't clearly and definitively better--but FFIV is more challenging and less "dumbed down."

 

Because, aside from the FFIV games being more challenging (even the U.S. version, which is NOT Easy Type by the way, but it's very similar) than FFVI, there's a larger party and the unique skill sets are maintained without letting nearly every character in the game learn every spell. You can basically make nearly every character (except for Umaro/Gogo) godly by jacking their stats up and teaching them every spell. The individuality of the characters was kind of lost.

 

FFVI is also only non-linear in the World of Ruin, and there's only a few events left there to complete. I was mainly referring to the battle system when I was talking about gameplay, anyway.

 

As for the story/characters, FFIV seemed to have a more serious tone and when you had characters get iced, it was played off as far more meaningful. The character that got knocked off in FFIV were a lot more useful and they were likeable without being shoved down your throat as sweet and innocent and wonderful and as your love interest. Plus, their deaths caused you to constantly have to rotate your fighting strategies. The major death in FFVI is a character that you barely knew anything about, and in FFVII--weak character + lame-looking death sequence = me laughing at a moment I'm supposed to be feeling for the characters. FFIV managed to keep the right amount of story without getting overbearing about it, and managed to be old school without being far too primitive. I'll agree with Sakura that the Cecil/Kain stuff is a bit overrated, but it still is pretty cool. I do dislike the "okay, this is the REAL bad guy" stuff, though.

 

Plus, Kefka is kind of forced comic relief. It's very bizaare to have your head villian be comic relief (yes, he's nuts, but his character design is that of a clown, for crying out loud), but it comes across as so forced in the game it seems a bit annoying.

 

So yeah, I still think FFVI is a pretty good game, and has a lot of good ideas, but the way they were implemented had quite a few downsides as well.

 

However, to me FFVII is a pale carbon-copy of FFVI, with new weaknesses all its own.

 

Nothing much to say about your FFT or Chrono Trigger comments. I do like the Magus character from CT, but he's really the only standout. Maybe Frog.

 

Oh, acknowledged. Crono isn't exactly a compelling character, and most of the others are just rehashes of other Toriyama character designs. Still, I consider the Crono thing as less of a matter of "you're controlling this character" than "you are this character." So just imagine what YOU would say in a given situation, and there ya go. It's a far cry from ANGST!~ ahoy.

 

The Magus/Frog stuff is pretty good for a 16-bit RPG, though, especially with the multiple endings.

 

Incidentally, let's sum up some of the stuff Sakura has said recently:

 

FFVII is worthy of being named the best video game ever.

"Pit Fighter rocks."

Killer Instinct is a really good game.

War Gods and The Bouncer are good games.

If not for MK, we may never have had blood and gore in console games.

 

...yow.

[Anya 0]

What you're telling me is without those visionaries Boon and Tobias, that blood and gore in console games would be a taboo that would never be broken. Nope, I simply do not buy it.

 

 

Doubt it'd still be taboo, but history could be quite different. If a huge bomb like BMX XXX had been in MK's place would we have seen so many mature games? If another company had made MK and backed down under pressure would we see as many mature games? What would have happened with the ratings system? Would we still have it or would we have the government forcing censorship? Who knows? There's so many possible scenarios.

 

 

 

Judging by the way that arcade scene was evolving, that's a perfectly logical conclusion.

 

 

Based on games like Yi Aire Kung Fu and SF 1 already being out and games like Fatal Fury being on the way I'd say things may have not been much different at all, if one of them caught on like SF II.

 

But it's just like MK....you can't say what would have happened.

 

 

 

Thing is, I admitted it.

 

 

True, that makes obnoxious behavior ok then.

 

 

 

And I don't really care who Square panders to, especially since I like it too. Why would I be insulted by Square doing "fan service" or whatever when I think it's cool?

 

 

 

 

Incidentally, let's sum up some of the stuff Sakura has said recently:

 

 

Yes lets!

 

 

FFVII is worthy of being named the best video game ever.

 

 

TRUE!

 

 

"Pit Fighter rocks."

 

 

Sarcasm.

 

 

Killer Instinct is a really good game.

 

 

Yes. So is KI2!

 

 

War Gods and The Bouncer are good games.

 

 

When did I mention War Gods and say The Bouncer is good?

 

 

 

If not for MK, we may never have had blood and gore in console games.

 

 

I mentioned other violent games along with MK BEFORE you, so obviously I'm aware there would be SOME violent games if MK had never come out.

 

 

 

...yow.

 

 

I know. A lot of people are speechless after my breathtaking commentary.

 

"To call me awesome is an understatement."

[MrRant 0]

You know.... they are just videogames.

 

 

Christ.

[El Psycho Diablo 0]

This thread bothers me. Seriously.

 

Some of the stuff in here is just way out there. (Final Fantasy 7 was allright for it's time, but best game ever? No chance!)

 

That, and the entire idea of this contest just dosen't work. Why? Everybody has their own opinions, and two, GameFAQs is the largest Nintendo/Squaresoft fanboy haven on the internet. There are also a lot of good games that will be left out because they aren't known enough, or because they aren't hyped enough. (Which seems to be in today's market, the more hype something gets, the better it has to be despite it's flaws. Like MGS2.)

[Anya 0]

Yeah, except FF VII. It's a life altering event.

[AndrewTS 0]

Doubt it'd still be taboo, but history could be quite different. If a huge bomb like BMX XXX had been in MK's place would we have seen so many mature games? If another company had made MK and backed down under pressure would we see as many mature games? What would have happened with the ratings system? Would we still have it or would we have the government forcing censorship? Who knows? There's so many possible scenarios.

 

So, since BMX XXX bombed, you don't think other companies will try to use sex to sell their games? Sex and violence are easy things to fall back on when a company lacks creativity.

 

Based on games like Yi Aire Kung Fu and SF 1 already being out and games like Fatal Fury being on the way I'd say things may have not been much different at all, if one of them caught on like SF II.

 

But it's just like MK....you can't say what would have happened.

 

I believe in fate, you apparently don't. That's a separate issue.

 

However, yeah, I don't think things would have been much different except for which gameplay mechanics would have become the standard, but I don't know how much of Fatal Fury was an original project and how much was "influenced."

 

No one really cared about SF, because it was very little like its follow up, wasn't a hit, and had lousy control.

 

True, that makes obnoxious behavior ok then.

 

And I don't really care who Square panders to, especially since I like it too. Why would I be insulted by Square doing "fan service" or whatever when I think it's cool?

 

It's okay, I'll forgive you for your obnoxious behavior too.

 

Considering your screen name and original avatar, I'm not surprised you wouldn't be insulted, but myself and many women would be.

 

When did I mention War Gods and say The Bouncer is good?

 

You said something about War Gods being good in the Midway Arcade Treasures 2 thread, and in this thread you took offense to me saying The Bouncer was mediocre.

[Anya 0]

So, since BMX XXX bombed, you don't think other companies will try to use sex to sell their games? Sex and violence are easy things to fall back on when a company lacks creativity.

 

 

Well, obviously developers were more interested in doing violent games once one was a huge success.

 

 

 

 

I believe in fate, you apparently don't. That's a separate issue.

 

 

Whoa, so like...Mortal Kombat was part of DESTINY!? Ed and John are like prophets or something!

 

 

 

 

No one really cared about SF, because it was very little like its follow up, wasn't a hit, and had lousy control.

 

 

Very little like SF II? It's just like SF II...except it sucks. SF II is SF 1 with a few new things done well. Someone else could have done that.

 

 

 

 

Considering your screen name and original avatar, I'm not surprised you wouldn't be insulted, but myself and many women would be.

 

 

My original avatar? I don't even remember what my original was. I've had so many. Or do you mean Paine?

 

 

I don't see why I should be insulted at X-2. Because the girls have revealing clothes? That is pretty weak, but Yuna is one of the best female leads ever in games. She is so strong and positive. She is someone you can look up to. The girls in X-2 are awesome. They're strong willed(and really funny) without being "xtreme femme fatales with attitude" like Bloodryane or Lara Croft or whatever. They actually seem real, with real personalities.

 

I don't like the shorts look in X-2, and some other outfits, but the positives far outweigh that negative.

 

 

 

You said something about War Gods being good in the Midway Arcade Treasures 2 thread, and in this thread you took offense to me saying The Bouncer was mediocre.

 

 

War Gods is funny and cool, but not "good".

 

I took offense to you suggesting I bought The Bouncer because it was made by Square.

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

FF7 is the most overrated video game every made. In addition, it spawned a whole new, horrible breed of video game fans who think that cinematics and polygons are more important than actual gameplay.

[MrRant 0]

I don't think you should look up to a video game character.

[Jer 0]

FF7 gets more backlash than it deserves. The fact that it inspired a bunch of cinematic crap with no substance and introduced a bunch of stupid fanboys to RPGs doesn't make it a bad game. It's still a good RPG with good gameplay, fairly compelling characters and a good, if somewhat flawed story. The graphics are dated, but there's not much else wrong with it.

 

It doesn't deserve to win best game ever in my opinion, but I don't see anything wrong with loving it. It's still one of my favorite games, even if I'm not quite as high on it as I once was.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I don't blame FF VII for starting the cinematic phase of videogaming. There are several like that that I absolutely love (most notably Xenogears, or at least the first disk before budget cuts began having an effect). That would be like blaming Star Wars for all the crud that came after it.

 

My problem is that there are many flaws in FF VII. The characters are mostly vacuums personality-wise, especially the leads (Cloud, Tifa & Aeris). Red XIII & Vincent are as well, but in their case it is a part of their characters. Yuffie is just plain annoying, and Barrett borders on that too at times. Cid is the only member of your party that I actually liked, and even he doesn't have that much depth. Compare them to the characters of IV, VI, IX or X and they don't hold up. Villain-wise, it is actually pretty good. Sephiroth is good, although he doesn't get enough to do, and most of the Shinra characters are so over-the-top they end up being more entertaining than the good guys.

 

In terms of story and gameplay, they seem to stick all of the character development stuff in the middle section of the game (between the escape from Midgar to Aeris's death) and it really slows down the plot. That could have easily been more spread out. The first and third acts are pretty good. The second is boring as hell.

 

The graphics are okay, I don't know why you brought that up. Considering some of the games we mentioned were better include IV, V & VI, games with even worse graphics, this isn't an issue. VIII with much better graphics than this title, is the worst of the series aside from the first one, which is more of a test run.

 

Gameplay-wise this one isn't really exciting either. The mini-games are okay, but the materia system is not something I am fond of at all. Aside from Limit Breaks it makes all characters the same, and all you need to do is move the materia around. Sure you can turn your characters into gods in some of the other games, but they still learn the spells themselves. In FFV, you can't make Galuf a White Mage and then give all his magic to Faris. You would have to work Faris up as a White Mage too. It is too customizable to the point where it hurts character individuality. The later parts of the game also suffer from the same problem that plagues FFVIII, in that you just cast long summon spells the entire time. It gets boring to watch the same five minute animation over and over again. The drop to only 3 members in your party at a time (something that began with Chrono Trigger, and I complain about in that game too) also hurt it.

 

FFVII isn't the worst in the series, but it is far from the best too. Let alone the best RPG ever. I don't think it is even the best of the Playstation era. FFIX is much more fun to play and its characters are more interesting.