ROH 4/23 St Paul Results

[tpww7 0]

From the ROH Board:

 

Hey, I just got back from the St. Paul show. There were about 450 people there, which isn't bad considering the WWE was in town and the "big names" cancelled. The ring looked sub-par compared to normal, as they had ghetto red, white, and blue ropes, plus a ghetto mat.

 

Matt Stryker beat Nigel Mcguiness: Good back-and-forth mat wrestling. About what you would expect from both guys. One problem: Stryker was a FACE here. He slapped people's hands and people chanted for him. I guess they are behind on their tapes. Finish came with a belly to belly from the top. **3/4

 

Carnage Crew beat Dunn & Marcos: Both teams did some wrestling, and it came out well. I thought Dunn & Marcos got WAY too much offense against a team that are supposed to be monster. Finish came with the piledriver from the top. **1/4

 

John Walters beat Justin Credible: Credible got a HUGE pop, which scared me. Your basic Credible match, but Walters did his best to get something out of this guy. Credible is a fan of the rest-holds, that's for sure. Better than the MES match, though. Finish came with the double-knees to the neck. **

 

6 Way Mayhem: Awesome stuff here, but who really thought there wouldn't be. Jimmy Rave and Masada did little here. Shelley and Jacobs did some great chain wrestling. Huss was VERY over. Evans was good, and did a crazy pheonix splash from the top to the outside. Daniels was pretty good too. Finish came when Shelley made Jacobs (I think) tap to the crossface. ***1/2

 

BJ Whitmer beat Cabana: I tried to get a "teatherball" chant over to no avail. Before the match starts, Punk attacks Steamboat, and he is taken out of reffing. Steamboat got a HUGE ovation, though. Caban came out wearing a "karate kid" outfit to mock Steamboat, plus he had a cabbage patch doll. Match was okay. I'm not a huge fan of Cabana in-ring wise, as he stalls a lot in his matches. They did a lot of brwaling, which I missed. It sounded like it was mostly chairs. Finish came with a wrist-clutch exploder from the top. ***

 

 

More to come...

 

Intermission: I discover that Nick Mondo is in attendence, which I guess makes sense since he is from Minneapolis.

 

Matt Sydal beat. Delirious: Okay stuff. Crowd was really into Sydal. Delirious was also impressive. I was yelling every US mask wrestler at him ("Get him Super Dragon"). Finish came with a moonsault belly to belly from the top. **1/4

 

Briscoes beat Havana Pitbulls: Excellent stuff by both teams. The Pitbulls were stiff as hell, jelled well together, and definitely meshed with the Briscoes. Sick spot when Mark got backdropped to the outside. Finish came with the Jay-Driller. ****

 

American Dragon beat CM Punk when he made him tap out to a arm-bar variation. Steamboat came out and announced he would ref., since he was payed to do so. Very good stuff (of course), but Punk played to the crowd a little too much for my liking. Dragon was pretty over with the crowd. In fact, most ROH wrestlers got a good reaction, even though they haven't wrestled in Minnesota before. Dragon took a sick backdrop suplex to the outside. Good mat wrestling by both. ***3/4

 

Samoa Joe beat Homicide via DQ. Streamers were thrown to Joe. Props to "Bob Backlund Fan" for prividing me with one. Very good match in-ring wise. It was pretty one-sided on the part of Joe (he was as stiff as I've ever seen him), but Homicide got in some offense, including a piledriver (!). Homicide was showing frustration throughout the match, throwing chairs and stuff. After the bell accidentally rang for a two-count, Homicide got pissed and knocked the ref down. The lights then went out, and then Homi hit Joe with a fireball. The match ended then. Afterwards, the whole locker room entered out to pull apart the two. This lead to a CRAZY segment where Mark did a SSP to the outside, Cabana did an Asai Moonsault, Dunn & Marcos did their stage dives, and Evans does a 360 Pheonix splash to the outside. Just psycho. If you're going to have a no-contest in the final, it's good to finish with a segement as crazy as that one. Also, Punk and Steamboat get into it, leading to Steamboat getting some offense on Punk. ***1/2

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

A DQ Main Event Finish?

 

In Ring of Honor?

[tpww7 0]

It's about the best thing they could of done.

 

It's all gonna lead to Cide-Joe the final encounter on 5/22 in Philly.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Well...I'm one of the few people on this board that doesn't have a problem with a DQ finish.

 

I'm just surprised they did it.

[Michrome 0]

I predicted a draw, but come to think of it, neither guy could really pull off a 30 minute draw without American Dragon with them. I like the build to a huge match in Philly, and more and more, ROH is getting away from every match being completely clean. With all the losses of guys, Cide-Joe is just about the only match they had to headline Philly with.

[tpww7 0]

Match Times:

 

Stryker over Nigel at 10:13

Carnage Crew over Ring Crew Express at 8:18

Shelly wins the six man, defeating Jacobs. Awesome, awesome. Wish this would have gone longer than 11:30

Whitmer over Cabana at 13:01

Matt Sydal defeats Delirious with a one-man Spanish Fly at 6:24.

Dragon gets Punk to tap out at 26:01

Briscoes over Pitbulls 18;22

Joe retains with a DQ win at about 18:30

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I can't wait to see Dragon vs. Homicide when the tape for tomorrow is released.

[Slingshot Suplex 0]

Matt and Delirious go all the way to St Paul and get 6 1/2 minutes?

 

Bah.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Not that I follow or anything, but.....when is Samoa Joe gonna fucking lose the title?! He's had it for a year if my Pro Wrestling Illustrated results are correct.

[JustJoe2k5 0]

I think Ring of Honor learned from Xavier, and decided to give the title to someone who could work just about any style. Now that A.J. Styles and Christopher Daniels are gone, the only person I could see that could carry the Ring of Honor title would be Bryan Danielson. With the length of the title reign, they are also building up to when he loses it, so whoever is able to do it will get a huge rub and it wouldn't surprise me if Matt Stryker was that man.

[Guest NateRizzle]

I think Ring of Honor learned from Xavier, and decided to give the title to someone who could work just about any style.  Now that A.J. Styles and Christopher Daniels are gone, the only person I could see that could carry the Ring of Honor title would be Bryan Danielson.  With the length of the title reign, they are also building up to when he loses it, so whoever is able to do it will get a huge rub and it wouldn't surprise me if Matt Stryker was that man.

 

Xavier is a great worker. All four of his title defenses were great matches. There would be a riot is Matt Stryker won the ROH title. The guy has a very bland moveset and all his matches seem like a long feeling out process.

 

Anyway, sounds like a great show. The DQ finish doesn't really bother me since they're building to a big blowoff down the line. It could have pissed off the live crowd, but by the sound of the reports I'm reading, it didn't.

 

Not that I follow or anything, but.....when is Samoa Joe gonna fucking lose the title?! He's had it for a year if my Pro Wrestling Illustrated results are correct.

 

Not anytime soon, hopefully. He's been incredible since he won the title and is actually bringing some prestige to it. There's nothing wrong with a long title reign when it's for a great, charismatic worker who can have a good match with anyone.

[Nevermortal 0]

Not that I follow or anything, but.....when is Samoa Joe gonna fucking lose the title?! He's had it for a year if my Pro Wrestling Illustrated results are correct.

Samoa Joe IS the ROH title. He's had such an incredible run that I honestly can't see anyone else holding it. He's done THAT good of a job.

 

In Philly, Homicide goes down again. I can't see him being the leader of the company. That role just doesn't fit him.

[RedJed 0]

I ended up going to the show....second guessed it initally though after TNA pulled talent since there would be no Styles v. Lynn or Raven v. Credible - a match revisited from a hot Minneapolis ECW show from 2000. But then I heard of the new lineup, and while it was a little less stellar, it was still solid and there were rumblings of a bad potential turnout due to the WWE show just 4 blocks away. So with that said, I wasnt sure if ROH would end up returning and this might be the only chance I had to see it live.

 

With that said, I'm glad I went as it was a pretty damn good show. Never been to any indy show like this before with the crowd being so into it and generally I thought this was a very well booked show and yearns for a return. I had issues with the finish of the main event (as I felt it was more a fodder for a rematch somewhere in a different part of the country) but I was glad to see them realize that they needed a big finish at the end and then they did what they did. The best thing of the show to me was the stuff with Steamboat.

 

Sat in the same section as a really loud group of people, I think they were a core group of ROH fans who maybe travel wherever they have shows at. Meaning they likely came here from the east coast. I didnt ask them but just assumed as the wrestlers knew who they were, etc. If anything is to be said about ROH it's the loyal fanbase of people like this, who are ultimate fans to do such a thing. They did kind of get annoying though, as they distracted at times from the action.

 

Opener was alright, I dont really care for Stryker though. Seems overrated by what I've seen. Definately not world title material. McGuiness has unlimited potential though. ** 1/4

 

Tag match was pretty good, everyone worked hard. **

 

Credible and John Walters (I think thats who it was) was just kind of "eh." They did the barracade slams into the signs though that the fans f'n loved to see all night. I hadnt seen any ROH in about 6 months so this was all new to me in seeing. I like the concept, brings in fan interaction more to an effect. * 1/2

 

By this point, I certainly wasnt impressed with the show, seemed typical indy stuff.

 

Certainly picked up with the 6 man 4 corners match. Everyone worked hard and I think Evans should be full time here (or is he?) as he really stole the show to me. Either TNA or ROH needs to push the hell out of this guy. Everyone in this match are guys that ROH needs in full time, as they all impressed me, with maybe Shelley as the exception. Ironically I think thats the guy who ROH is most all about out of the 6. Finish kind of came out of nowhere though. *** 3/4

 

This was the first I also have seen of Cabana and BJ Whitmer. Very good match I wasnt expecting it to be. Lots of brawling including in the crowd (they tore up a bunch of chairs in my section). *** 1/4

 

Non-title tag match was tremendous. This is the kind of match that just works to me, as both teams worked really stiff and the intensity just got better and better by each minute. Havana Pitbulls are going to go somewhere in this company. **** with alot of stiff and sick bumps/moves.

 

Am Dragon and CM Punk, thought it went too long without some really consistent action. Lots of promise spots though. ***

 

Main event was very good and probably about *** 3/4. They did a false finish with the ref looking to count 3 and the bell even rang, but then it got clarified it wasnt 3. From that, there was stalling that seemed to be waiting for the lights going out, and then the fireball spot. One thing I didnt get.....why did the lights go out in the first place? That finish irked me for the reasons already stated, but they made up for it in the aftermath with the roster clearing brawl. Alot was served to lead into Chicago with the Briscos and SCS brawling, etc. The ending with Steamboat running out and cleaning house on the SCS was great stuff. The storyline played out with Steamboat all night from being posted by Punk during the Cabana-Whitmer match to being the ref later to then being beat down again by Cabana and Punk after that match to then running out to end the show.......just fun stuff, especially for Steamboat marks like me.

 

"Please come back" chant started after the show, everyone pretty much gave the show a standing ovation. I know that they have another date in Chicago for July and then instead of coming back here the day before they are going somewhere in Wisconsin. Maybe they will change their mind about that one and just come back here instead.

[Guest BobBacklundRules]

I was at the show too, right behined the loud drunks and between mondo and arik cannon, in front of the hard cam.

 

Devito took a rat backstage after his match, and mondo apparently knows the briscoes well.

[RedJed 0]

Cool.......you must have been close to where I was sitting then too, although I dont think I was by either Mondo or Cannon. I was closer by the entrance way but in section C (where the loud drunks were) unfortunately a few seats by the two loudest ones of the crowd! Their act was funny at times but got old after awhile. These were the guys I was referring to in that I think the are almost ultimate ROH "fanboys," traveling all over the place. I heard them say that they always get free tickets and such if they go around here and there with them, etc.

 

There was some guy a few rows in front of me (I was in third) who I thought looked like a wrestler too, but I couldnt grasp who it was. He ended up almost getting in a fight with a guy early in the show over a misnumbered ticket he had or something. He had a girl with him too and she had a kid (and boy, this chick was smokin hot). Alot of these people looked familiar though from probably seeing them at other wrestling shows around town.

 

Anyway I read they probably wont be back for at least 6 months. Bah, wish they would just cancel the Wisconsin date and come back here.

[Paul Stanley 0]

I went to the WWE show cause i was comped, wish i could of gone to ROH though.

 

[tpww7 0]

Shelley may still not be 100 % Jed, he's just coming back from injury.

 

But trust me, Shelley = god.

[Tawren 0]

I like the build to a huge match in Philly, and more and more, ROH is getting away from every match being completely clean.

How is getting away from clean endings a good thing?

[Michrome 0]

Because when you lose all your stars to a promotion, you don't give away the only blowoff you have left in a small market that wasn't a financial success. You save that for the bigger market.

 

The product has become more storyline oriented. They don't just do 10 matches with clean finishes and no stories anymore. As it becomes more storyline-oriented, there will be less clean finishes. The purpose of the pure title was to offset that.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

A DQ ending can be good when it makes sense. This one makes sense.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

As an example...one of my all time favorite matches ended in a DQ (Mankind vs. HBK).

 

Hell, London vs. Styles ended in a double pin...and it's my favorite RoH match.

[Tawren 0]

Because when you lose all your stars to a promotion, you don't give away the only blowoff you have left in a small market that wasn't a financial success. You save that for the bigger market.

They dug their own hole, there. Even if AJ/Lynn was still on the card, I wouldn't call a fireball DQ finish a good idea. Don't book the match if you don't want to go all the way.

 

The product has become more storyline oriented.  They don't just do 10 matches with clean finishes and no stories anymore.  As it becomes more storyline-oriented, there will be less clean finishes.  The purpose of the pure title was to offset that.

 

Is that a good thing? In the ROH code of honor, they state they want to be sports and not sports entertainment. As you stated, they have become more storyline oriented. But is shitting in bags and fireballs really a turn for the better?

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

I think the difference is that their storytelling is still taking place in the ring...not in 20 minute self serving promos followed by ambulances being hit with trucks and such.

 

So something happened to Lucy and Punk finds out what. Do they run an angle where he chases the prophecy around with a flaming 2X4? No. He Pepsi Plunges his ass through a table. That's the kind of storytelling I like. They're still keeping it based on what's in the ring and grounded in reality.

[Michrome 0]

The stories, for the most part, are told in the ring. Seeing as the new shows are roughly 10 zillion times better in every way than they were when they did no stories, I'd say it's a turn for the better. The wrestling is much better, there are reasons to care about the matches, and the tapes are a more complete package.

 

You act as if there were no storylines before sports entertainment.

[Guest NateRizzle]

As an example...one of my all time favorite matches ended in a DQ (Mankind vs. HBK).

 

Hell, London vs. Styles ended in a double pin...and it's my favorite RoH match.

I agree with you. Just wanted to point out that the only reason London didn't win clean because TNA wouldn't let Styles lose while he was NWA Champion.

[franchise632 0]

Whats up all, just wanted to throw my two cents in here. I was at the show and really enjoyed it. Never been to anything other then and WWE or WCW show so this was something new for me. I wont really rehash anything that has been talked about already. Other then in my opinion I thought the finish for the Punk/Dragon match was flat. I thought the tap came out of no where, about 2 mins before the finish the crowd was really into the match, and it settled back down, i was waiting for the build for the finish and i look and punk taps. Just my thought. Lights On/Lights off I thought for sure as the tip off of a run in of some kind and then i see a fireball. Holy shit. Just didnt expect it. The insane last 10 minutes of this show is a must see. The building was hot. I was begging for Punk to get back in the ring with Steamboat.

 

Some post show notes:

 

~ I also saw DeVito with the "rat" Anyone who was at the show probably saw this girl, she had a "What about Punk" sign and was wearing a cropped ECW shirt and really short plad skirt. I happend to be standing outside in front of the building talking to Homicide when i look over and see her flashing the group of guys. The girl had a great rack. We got her to do it again cause Homicide didnt see the first time. Somebody < i think stryker> got out his camera phone and got a couple pics. Vito took the girl in the building for bout 10 mins then came back out and Loc, Vito and the chick all left together.

 

~Got to BS with Homicide for a few minutes, nothing really note worthy, he was a very cool guy. Very friendly. We joked about Vito being on rat patrol, his comment was "Vito's just crazy"

 

~Talked to Doug Gentry for a couple minutes, for anyone who was at the show and doesnt know Doug's face, he is the camera guy that was wearing the backwards blue cap. We just talked about the show, talked about the Dragon/Punk finish. He said he would have to see the tape as he was so tired he didnt really remember it. He was nice enough not to shake my hand because he had PinkEye, thanks Doug!!!

 

~ Just got a chance to shake Gabe's hand and thanked him for the great show, he thanked me for coming. Called me sir, cmon man Im 23. lol

 

~ Spoke to Justin Credible for a minute, he looked like he really enjoyed being there. Im sure the big pop that he got when he came out made him feel that much better. When you consider he has by far the most TV exposure in this area of anyone on the show the superstar pop isnt much of a shock.

 

~ Finally, I had a chance meeting with someone who has been in the new alot lately. That man was........no not Rob, it was Cary Silken. This is the first time I was ever glad that a cab I had called didnt show up. I was sitting on the front steps and and guy stepped out to have cigar, and I just started talking to him. About the show and blah blah blah. Then I asked if he was a producer or something. He said yea sort of. So i asked his name, he said Cary, I was like Cary Silken. He reacted like he was suprised I knew who he was. We talked a little about the Rob thing and more about the TNA thing. He said not to believe alot of what was being said. It was a very interesting conversation. Im glad i got the chance to have it.

 

Mr Silken also confirmed that they wont be back to St Paul in the near future. His words were that there just were not enough people in the building. That they gave them a helluva show but from a buisness perspective it wasnt enough to warrant a return show at this time. They have moved the date they had set aside for St Paul to Wauwatasa Wisconsin, with a shot the next night in Chicago Ridge. I believe it is set for July 23 and 24.

 

BTW I was in Sec D Row 2, across form the druken idiots in section C, there shit got old real quick. "Wrestling, YEA" The chick in the front row with the kid was definatly hot, we got a great view of her when we couldnt see the Cabana/Whitmer match.

[RedJed 0]

I had a feeling that was why that July date was in Wisconsin, figured that was originally supposed to be for St. Paul. GRRRRR

 

Chances are that most of the people from MN will go to the WI show anyway, but I still think its an unfair move to completely say they wont give it another chance in St. Paul. With the WWE thing and also the TNA/ROH thing happening.....it's hard to say how many potential fans they lost with that. Now that they have proved themselves though and word of mouth of such would occur, I can almost guarantee that at least 200 more people would show up next time. I know that when/if they come back, 3 of my friends who didnt go to this one will be going to the next.

 

Was Silken kind of old, balding, etc? I think I saw him roaming around ringside occasionally, etc.

 

Thats funny that the chick who went back with DeVito was her.....everyone near me was commenting how she held up her CM Punk sign THE ENTIRE MATCH without putting it down at all. Was she the same chick who flashed even during the show? Wow, what a hooch.

 

"Wrestling....yaaaay" Yes, got old very quick indeed!

[franchise632 0]

i thought they would have givin it one more chance to get over big here in the Twin Cities but they have to do what they think is best. Yea Silken was a balding, shorter, kinda scrawny guy. I dont recall seeing him around ringside but i could be wrong. I wish i would have been able to continue our conversation, but we were interupted by a kid and his dad that were also waiting for a cab that were cold and asked back into the building.

 

Yea it was the same girl who flashed during the show as well. She wasnt the ugliest girl in the world, not bad for a ring rat. She had some great cans which i got a good view of outside. Funny thing is she was supposed to be waiting for a ride from her sister outside the building. After she left her sister showed up and was not to pleased when she was informed by me of where her sister had gone, lol.