Stephanie McMahon directly made the call...

[The Metal Maniac 0]

As you said, Bob does have a record of stiffing rookies. However, this record goes beyond rookies, because Bob Holly is a stiff worker (As I believe Foley has stated, and I'll take his word on it). Thus, it stands to reason that he'd be stiffing rookies, because, well, he's wrestling them.

 

That said: I have sincere doubts that Matt Morgan can do anything that a thousand other guys can't, and besides, if a guy his size can't take being roughed up a bit by a guy Bob Holly's size, then he NEEDS to not be in the fucking wrestling biz.

 

A little hard for that to be done if poor ol' Bob wants to take his aggression out

 

Why? He can't take a potato?

 

(I should note at this point that I don't even know how badly Morgan was injured - is this why he's not on TV?)

 

Anyway, the bottom line is that my stance on this is thus: It's wrestling. People VERY RARELY set out to cause serious injury to others, because if they do, they will probably never get work again. But, being as it is a very physical form of entertainment, people do get hurt. Whether this is due to accident, or one worker's preference to allow for very little air between his punches, it happens. If one can't deal with it, they shouldn't be in the biz.

 

Also, people shouldn't be casting blame on other people when they have little/no clue as to the circumstances - but that's more of a life in general thing, I guess.

 

And I'll post whatever I want, thank you very much.

 

No, you'll just post what the mods let you post...otherwise, you won't be doing much posting. I have no qualms with debating this subject, and you have every right to defend your viewpoint - what I was trying to get at with my "this isn't the right spot" statement was just that - this isn't the right spot, as this thread was intended for something else, but has now de-railed into essentially two seperate threads.

 

Going off-topic is nothing new for TSM, of course, but hey, I figured I'd at least mention it.

[Scroby 0]

Anyway, the bottom line is that my stance on this is thus: It's wrestling. People VERY RARELY set out to cause serious injury to others, because if they do, they will probably never get work again. But, being as it is a very physical form of entertainment, people do get hurt. Whether this is due to accident, or one worker's preference to allow for very little air between his punches, it happens. If one can't deal with it, they shouldn't be in the biz.

 

Did you see that tough enough? Holly even said he was going to beat the crap outta someone. With the concussion its hard to tell what excatly happen espically since it was at a house show and not all of us saw it. But since I heard it was from Holly's trademark move (which is a bad finisher as it is), Matt most likely took the bump wrong since Holly does the move really quick. It does happen but if Matt was unpreparied for the move and Holly went ahead and did it anyways, things are different.

[Guest Dazed]

Maybe your a sick bastard! I don't care nobody should be raped. Yes I don't agree with Jackie fighting a man (or women fighting men period), but your probably one of the sickos who enjoys watching a man beat/rape a women. Fucking dumbass!

 

Whoa whoa whoa... take any flaming to hardcore discussion. Particularly when it's so vile. You will not be warned again.

 

EDIT: bolded the part of the quote I am talking about

Edited May 7, 2004 by nikjohns

[Scroby 0]

In all seriousness, Sanyo had every right to do that, if not him, someone would have.

[Adam 0]

It figures that Steph made the call, this just gives me one more reason not to like her. They could have had anyone of the Cruisers that hadn't faced Chavo instead of Jackie. Jackie's like, the very last person that you would think of when facing Chavo for the Cruiser belt, let alone winning the damn title.

 

(Off topic: Sanyo may of had a right to do that, but still, as nik said, theres a place for that shit, and its called Hardcore Discussion.)

[nl5xsk1 0]

How come it's cool when some guys stiff other wrestlers (Vader, Steiners in their prime, the Puro wrestlers who I don't know the names of) but when Holly does, he should be fired or what have you. Not to be a Holly supporter, but pick a side of the fence and stick with it: either ALL stiff wrestlers suck and should be raked over the coals, or NONE of them should.

[Ripper 0]

If you read the Smackdown spoilers, you know that Jackie beat Chavo Guerrero to win the Cruiserweight title. As Mike Johnson reported yesterday, WWE had planned to bring up Tough Enough 3 winner Matt Cappotelli to take on Chavo for the title, but he suffered a concussion on a house show on 4/24 and could not work last night. So, Stephanie McMahon made the decision, from what I heard, to put Jackie in the bout instead. Jackie has been lobbying to wrestle against a man for a while now. I have talked to a number of people on the Smackdown roster who think this was a horrible move. I agree with them.

"from what I heard".

 

You know if that isn't enough to make me say "Dammit, this MUST be true" then I don't know what is.

 

Internet Journalism - we don't have to back up our claims.

[Guest nikowwf]

What i don't get is what do they think is the draw on Smackdown now. They killed the credibility of the cruiserweight division. Their top heel is JBL. and their second to be top heel Booker T is stuck in a Russo inspired dumbass angle.

 

Jackie, if she were to get over more than any other woman on the roster by this (which she will not) would not be worth sacrifcing the one part of the show that could fill out a PPV for them and make it decent.

 

its just inane...and if steph didnt authorize it, she should have stopped it. You dont let one of your drawing cards be killed for no reason.

 

stupid stupid stupid.

 

(BTW, whoever made that initial rape comment should cool it. Rape's not a topic to use like that.)

 

niko

[Guest Dids]

Maybe your a sick bastard! I don't care nobody should be raped. Yes I don't agree with Jackie fighting a man (or women fighting men period), but your probably one of the sickos who enjoys watching a man beat/rape a women. Fucking dumbass!

 

Whoa whoa whoa... take any flaming to hardcore discussion. Particularly when it's so vile. You will not be warned again.

 

EDIT: bolded the part of the quote I am talking about

Nik,

 

If you're going to give him shit publically for what he said- then you might want to look at the post he's responding to- that's the far more offensive of the two.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Are people getting mixed up here between Matt Morgan and Matt Cappotelli? Morgan's the big guy who unlesss he lost the belt is still OVW champ. He's certainly not anywhere close to a cruiserweight. I'm not familiar with Cappotelli but he's the cruiser. Right?

[EdwardKnoxII 0]

As for Matt Morgan, who gives a fuck? One, it's Matt Morgan, so if Holly had broken his neck, I probably would've wanted to shake his hand. But seriously, it just looks dickish to be all like "Oooh, but he hurt this other loser too...so it MUST have been on purpose this time!"

 

Because Bob has a rep for stiffing rookies which happened to backfire on him and unfortunately didn't end his career.

 

And for one, I give a fuck because its people like Matt Morgan that can built up to tomorrow's top stars if done correctly. A little hard for that to be done if poor ol' Bob wants to take his aggression out on somebody that doesn't know anybody yet.

 

And I'll post whatever I want, thank you very much.

Like it has been said Bob Holly has a rep for stiffing rookies and TE guys. And everytime he steps in the ring with one of them something happens. He beat the shit out of Matt C. on TE to teach him a lesson. What that lesson was who the hell knows with someone like Holly. Then he was in a match with Matt Morgan and stiffed his ass. And it seems that Holly has fucked up Matt C. AGAIN to the point were he can't wrestle for the CW title. See the pattern?

[Youth N Asia 0]

Cause I just didn't have enough reasons to hate this bitch. I guess if she can't screw up the shows by appearing on camera she has to do it with shit booking.

[Guest Dids]

ALL YOU KNOW IS THAT HE HAS A CONCUSION. YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW HE GOT IT. FOR YOU ALL YOU HOLLY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

 

Jesus.

[Vyce 0]

Honestly, I didn't even know that Jackie was still employed.

 

You know what's pretty fucked up? Spanky never even got CLOSE to winning the Cruiser strap. Not even CLOSE.

[Guest Museite]

This seems to be part of this 'slowly add women to male sports' trend that's been going on lately. E.g. the 2-3 females who compete on the PGA men's golf tour, that college girl in NCAA Football (who claimed rape, i don't know the exact story), couple of women in lower division rugby and other women. I don't have a problem with women in certain sports or entertainment, but did ANYONE find Chavo wrestling Jackie ENTERTAINING at all?

[Guest Y2G]

but did ANYONE find Chavo wrestling Jackie ENTERTAINING at all?

The fisrt segment when Chavo was playing the Macho man :-) after that it was soooo unnecessary.

[Enigma 0]

How come it's cool when some guys stiff other wrestlers (Vader, Steiners in their prime, the Puro wrestlers who I don't know the names of) but when Holly does, he should be fired or what have you. Not to be a Holly supporter, but pick a side of the fence and stick with it: either ALL stiff wrestlers suck and should be raked over the coals, or NONE of them should.

There's a big difference between working stiff and going into a ring intentionally trying to hurt someone, which is what Bob Holly admitted he did during Tough Enough, so I wouldn't put it past him to do it in a real match.

[Mearl267 0]

"but it's still annoying as hell to see people make such generalizations based on the fact that they don't like [insert name here]"

 

"As for Matt Morgan, who gives a fuck? One, it's Matt Morgan, so if Holly had broken his neck, I probably would've wanted to shake his hand."

 

^Posted by the genius that is The Metal Maniac. Love them double standards.

[Guest Trivia247]

Thats it.....

 

Its all a Conspiracy. Matt was gonna get his shot at the CW title, but one night Jackie did a three some with Steph and HHH and Steph decided its in her...best interests that Jackie go win it instead, so she sends out Bob Holly to OVW on a Hitman job to knock Matt out of contention.

 

And there you have it.

 

Oliver Stone couldn't have directed it better....

 

Steph:Back and to the left, Back and to the left, Back and to the left, Back and to the left

 

Jackie: Damn Steph would you cool it on the instructions I know what im doing..... (she goes back and to the left)

 

HHH: UHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Guest nikowwf]

I think its perfectly reasonable for people to blame the main booker of smackdown, who is Stephanie, for this mess. She could have called it off - any booker with half a sense would have realized how asinine this would come off.

 

And please, jackie/steph/hhh threesome is not a thought i want to have!

 

niiko

[Guest Trivia247]

And please, jackie/steph/hhh threesome is not a thought i want to have!

 

niiko

I Hope so the image should be Jarring!

ewwwwwwwwwwwww

 

I already sent in my feedback on Smackdown, so my peace is pretty much been said, but lets not go into dramatics on side crap on Holly or the tale of the two Matts or what Jackie had to do to get the CW title. Lets just pine away the days until someone beats Jackie for the belt.

[notJames 0]

When I saw the match last night, I kinda thought this was sort of punishment by proxy for Chavo Sr's drunken escapade at the Cauliflower Alley Club. You know, "the sins of the father being visited upon the son" and whatnot. What other possible explanation for the abomination could there have been?

 

And then I saw this thread. And it all made sense. When in doubt, blame Stuffy McHam.

[Guest duck420]

i hope holly gave that punk a concussion. only good thing about any of hte tough enoughs was holly whooping his ass. as far as jackie and chavo. im gonna be positive and say that they are going to push chavo against eddie for the WORLD TITLE not the cruiser.

[Guest Trivia247]

When I saw the match last night, I kinda thought this was sort of punishment by proxy for Chavo Sr's drunken escapade at the Cauliflower Alley Club. You know, "the sins of the father being visited upon the son" and whatnot. What other possible explanation for the abomination could there have been?

 

And then I saw this thread. And it all made sense. When in doubt, blame Stuffy McHam.

Yea why be logical when you can pick up a torch and a pitch fork and gather the mob together to go hunt for Frakenboobie

[buffybeast 0]

I didn't read the spoilers this week so I was so surprised when Jackie won the belt. I actually laughed. It's so ridiculous.

 

Jackie has wrestled men before in Memphis and WCW. I didn't have a problem with it then but I do have an issue with it now. Now is not the time to do the inter-gender thing and especially not with Jackie. I love her and always will. But she needs to realize her time has passed and she should just be happy to have a job.

[Guest Dids]

i hope holly gave that punk a concussion. only good thing about any of hte tough enoughs was holly whooping his ass. as far as jackie and chavo. im gonna be positive and say that they are going to push chavo against eddie for the WORLD TITLE not the cruiser.

Boy, this whole open registration thing is working great, huh?

[David Blazenwing 0]

You know what? I loved SmackDown! last night. I loved it when Jackie pinned Chavo for the belt; I marked out like all fuck! I never saw it coming. As for the rest of the card... UT destroying two heels really helped get his gimmick of an upstppable monster over. All hail the immortal Dead-Biker-Taker! He kicks ass! Also, having Eddie come out at the end of the show and kill everyone was cool, and a possible way to start a feud between himself and RVD for the WWE strap at GAB or Summerslam.

 

Now, see... I like to refer to myself as a "smarky mark". Wow. That's lame, but hear me out anyhow. I know all the backstage stuff that goes on, etc. I frequent this board, even if I don't always post here, lol. Anyhow... I'm a smark as far as backstage info goes, but other than that, I'm a total mark for anything WWE. I buy the merchandise (I'm wearing my Goldberg "Believe The Hype" T-Shirt as I type this), I watch all the shows, I order the PPVs when I can, go to all the shows in Milwaukee when WWE is here, etc. So yeah, I'm a mark.

 

BTW, I'm interested in starting a weekly article here, if the Gods of TSM would allow me to do so. It's entitled "A Mark's Perspective", a weekly article that accentuates WWE's programs from the views of a total mark, rather than the cynical "WWE sucks and can't do anything right except video packages" typical smark. Whoever sets that up, drop me a line. Or a PM. Or whatever. Just gte back to me.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I'm interested in starting a weekly article here, if the Gods of TSM would allow me to do so. It's entitled "A Mark's Perspective", a weekly article that accentuates WWE's programs from the views of a total mark, rather than the cynical "WWE sucks and can't do anything right except video packages" typical smark.

Gee, because that's NEVER been done before.

 

Every third guest columnist at 411mania does that act. It's just basically a soapbox to brag about how much you marked out over certain things, and most of the time to yell or complain about 'smarks'. Not exactly trailblazing stuff here.

[Guest Quik]

Actually, I was joking, as she was not actually raped in Memphis. As for being in hell, its better to have a condemned soul then no soul at all. Of course now I will get all of the posts about how one should never joke about rape. After all, its not a funny issue, it hurts many people. I would hate to see half of this board at a comic club, you guys would stomp your feet and walk out in disgust. Lighten up, its a fuckin internet message board, if you cannot be evil here where can you be evil. Do not take away my evil sanctuary with your bleeding heart bullshit.

Testify my brother. It's cringe humour, and there ain't nothing wrong with it. People need to realize that their is no need for strict professionalism on an intenret message board.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Wait....who is trying to compare HARDCORE SPARKY PLUGG HOLLY to VADER?! First, although Vader was "Stiff", he didn't set out to deliberately injure people for being rookies. Plus outside the ring he was a very nice guy, and was even shook up when he botched a powerbomb on a jobber and nearly killed him.

 

Hardcore Holly is a bitter old piece of shit who will never mean jack shit in wrestling, and even said he was looking to hurt Matt C. (which he did. If anyone recalls he beat the shit out of him and chipped a few of his teeth in a span of 20 seconds)

 

Holly also stiffed the shit out of Morgan to the point he couldn't even wrestle in the Smackdown Rumble Match.

 

Hollys track record of being a jackass and a stiff prick are against him. I also heard he had a few matches in OVW vs. Matt, and the outcomes aren't gonna surprise (stiff stiff stiff).