Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 7, 2004 President Bush (news - web sites) acknowledged "times are tough" for the United States and the Middle East and repeatedly apologized for U.S. soldiers' conduct in Iraq (news - web sites) in an interview published by an Egyptian newspaper Friday. Bush also backed away from the "road map" peace plan for Israel and the Palestinians, saying that keeping the promise of a Palestinian state by 2005 "may be hard." He did not give a new timetable. The editors of Egypt's Al-Ahram newspaper who conducted the interview didn't ask about the future of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld. Critics have called upon Rumsfeld to resign for his handling of the prisoner-abuse scandal. Bush mentioned Rumsfeld only once in the interview, speaking of "our Secretary of Defense, in whom I've got confidence and believe in." The interview was conducted on Thursday, the same day Bush for the first time apologized for the conduct of U.S. troops in Iraq who humiliated prisoners in their charge. The issue has created furor throughout the Middle East, leading Bush to grant interviews to Arab news media in an attempt to repair the damage. Bush didn't apologize in two television interviews Wednesday, but he made up for it in the Al-Ahram interview, saying the word "sorry" six times. "I can't tell you how sorry I am to them and their families for the humiliation," he said. "I'm also sorry because people are then able to say, `Look how terrible America is.'" Bush conceded that the issue has cost the United States standing in the Middle East. "I think that things in the Middle East for the United States are difficult right now," Bush said. "I think they're difficult because people don't really understand our intentions. ... I'd say right now times are tough for the United States and the Middle East." The interview was conducted in the Map Room of the White House. Al-Ahram spoke with Bush on Thursday afternoon, but because of the time difference was running the interview in Saturday editions, which was to hit the streets Friday evening in Cairo. The Associated Press in Cairo obtained a copy of the transcript earlier. Bush said he planned to send a letter to Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia to call for better Palestinian leadership, and for setting up institutions that can then work to set up a Palestinian state. But he indicated the letter would contain no guarantees — as Arabs had hoped — and that there would be no state by 2005, as called for in the U.S.-backed "road-map" peace plan. "Well, 2005 may be hard, since 2005 is right around the corner. I readily concede the date has slipped some, primarily because violence sprung up," Bush said. "I don't want to make any excuses, but nevertheless, I think the timetable of 2005 isn't as realistic as it was two years ago." He added: "Nevertheless, I do think we ought to push hard as fast as possible to get a state in place." Bush declined to offer any guarantees on two issues of special concern to Arabs — that an eventual Palestinian state would encompass almost all the West Bank, and that Palestinian refugees who fled in 1948 from land that now lies in Israel be allowed to return. Bush said those issues should be left for the government of the new Palestinian state to negotiate directly with Israel. The letter to Qureia, Bush said, would say that the Untied States is still committed to the "road map" and the Palestinian state, "but also reminding him it's now time to step up and show leadership, show leadership against the terrorists, and show leadership in putting the institutions in place for a state to emerge." Bush said times are difficult for the United States in the Middle East because people in the region don't understand America's intentions, which he said were to build free and peaceful societies and to protect U.S. security. He accepted some of the blame for not getting that message across, but blamed as well the prison-abuse scandal. "Obviously, our reputation has been damaged severely by the terrible and horrible acts, inhumane acts that were conducted on Iraqi prisoners," Bush said. "So I've got to do a better job of explaining to the people that we're for a lot of things that most people who live in the Middle East want," he added. Bush said his desire to push a package of reforms for the "greater Middle East" remains strong despite criticism. "I am as strong today on reforms in the greater Middle East as I have ever been. I fully understand criticism. I mean, I get criticized all the time in my job," he said. "I think the job of a leader is to have a vision, a vision that is hopeful and optimistic." He did not say whether he would impose sanctions on Syria, saying: "If I make the decision to put on sanctions, it will be because he (Syrian President Bashar Assad) hasn't been a full partner in the war against terror." Bush said he understands the frustration of a recent poll in Iraq showing that most people consider the United States an occupying power. "I mean, if I were an Iraqi and I ... was asked, am I happy that somebody is running my government for me — which basically is what the question implies — the answer would be, no, we want to run our government ourselves," he said. Bush said that makes it even more critical to hand over sovereignty to Iraq on June 30, as agreed. He appealed for help in the transition from the United Nations (news - web sites), and also said a "good role" for the United Nations would be to help set up elections for January. "I'll tell you, however, the Iraqi people understand that America needs to be around for a while to help make sure that the killers — the foreign fighters who are there, disgruntled former Saddamists — don't wreak havoc," he said. http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=...iew_4&printer=1 So, he apologized. More than once. Do they love us now? NO? I'm shocked. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted May 7, 2004 I'm sorry everyone hates us... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 7, 2004 I'm sorry everyone hates us... I'm sorry we didn't release the VIDEOS of the abuse we apparently have. I'm also sorry that the soldiers who did this were so damned idiotic to document it so thoroughly. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted May 7, 2004 I'm sorry that I read this thread (figured I'd beat someone to this one...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 7, 2004 I'm sorry that I read this thread (figured I'd beat someone to this one...) I'm sorry I couldn't toss in a Moore is fat joke in right about now. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted May 7, 2004 Of course you couldn't toss in a Moore-is-fat joke. They're hard enough to pick up, let alone throw without the aid of heavy machinery. Sorry about that... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zorin Industries 0 Report post Posted May 7, 2004 Look at it this way, if this had been another country whose soldiers had done this, the U.S. would be the first to condemn it. People are going to jump on this because America has always set itself up on a pedastal for other countries to follow its moral example, but know that example has taken a sever knock. The U.S. went into Iraq to stop this kind of thing, not see it continue. I do think Bush has done the right thing here, so the heat should come off him somewhat, though some important heads may have to roll. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 7, 2004 Look at it this way, if this had been another country whose soldiers had done this, the U.S. would be the first to condemn it. People are going to jump on this because America has always set itself up on a pedastal for other countries to follow its moral example, but know that example has taken a sever knock. The U.S. went into Iraq to stop this kind of thing, not see it continue. I do think Bush has done the right thing here, so the heat should come off him somewhat, though some important heads may have to roll. #1 --- Apologies NEVER fix the problem. They simply pour fuel on the fire. Shockingly enough, our European "friends" wants MORE apologies (Le Monde is QUITE forgiving, only implying that torturing criminals is part of the American culture anyway). German papers assume that we had to spend A LOT of time planning up these photos because it takes Islamic experts to figure out the most humiliating things to do to prisoners. Yes, keep the irony in mind --- GERMANY is CRITICIZING people over treatment of criminals. A quote from the Daily Telegraph: "How would we feel if Britain had been overwhelmed by a vastly superior army, and we then saw pictures of our relatives stripped naked and tortured by smirking jezebels from the Appalachians?" #2 --- We never ask for apologies. Are we demanding ANYBODY apologize for the US hostage taken yesterday? Did we demand Vietnam apologize for their brutality towards OUR POW's? I say we embarrass the living crap out of all of them. Show them what happens if they fight. You might have a woman point and laugh at you. Oooh --- SUCH BARBARISM! -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vyce 0 Report post Posted May 7, 2004 I'm sorry everyone hates us... I'm not. I regret nothing. I lay down my sins before God and man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripper 0 Report post Posted May 7, 2004 Look at it this way, if this had been another country whose soldiers had done this, the U.S. would be the first to condemn it. People are going to jump on this because America has always set itself up on a pedastal for other countries to follow its moral example, but know that example has taken a sever knock. The U.S. went into Iraq to stop this kind of thing, not see it continue. I do think Bush has done the right thing here, so the heat should come off him somewhat, though some important heads may have to roll. #1 --- Apologies NEVER fix the problem. They simply pour fuel on the fire. Shockingly enough, our European "friends" wants MORE apologies (Le Monde is QUITE forgiving, only implying that torturing criminals is part of the American culture anyway). German papers assume that we had to spend A LOT of time planning up these photos because it takes Islamic experts to figure out the most humiliating things to do to prisoners. Yes, keep the irony in mind --- GERMANY is CRITICIZING people over treatment of criminals. A quote from the Daily Telegraph: "How would we feel if Britain had been overwhelmed by a vastly superior army, and we then saw pictures of our relatives stripped naked and tortured by smirking jezebels from the Appalachians?" #2 --- We never ask for apologies. Are we demanding ANYBODY apologize for the US hostage taken yesterday? Did we demand Vietnam apologize for their brutality towards OUR POW's? I say we embarrass the living crap out of all of them. Show them what happens if they fight. You might have a woman point and laugh at you. Oooh --- SUCH BARBARISM! -=Mike are you suggesting that the best course of action was to say "Yeah, they were torutured, fuck it." and thats it? What exactly are you saying was supposed to be done here. Nothing just because that doesn't stop people from disliking you? I'm not following you here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zorin Industries 0 Report post Posted May 7, 2004 A quote from the Daily Telegraph: "How would we feel if Britain had been overwhelmed by a vastly superior army, and we then saw pictures of our relatives stripped naked and tortured by smirking jezebels from the Appalachians?" Funny quote that, seeing how the Telegraph is quite right wing, pro-USA and pro-Israel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 7, 2004 A quote from the Daily Telegraph: "How would we feel if Britain had been overwhelmed by a vastly superior army, and we then saw pictures of our relatives stripped naked and tortured by smirking jezebels from the Appalachians?" Funny quote that, seeing how the Telegraph is quite right wing, pro-USA and pro-Israel Doesn't make them less of a jackass here. are you suggesting that the best course of action was to say "Yeah, they were torutured, fuck it." and thats it? What exactly are you saying was supposed to be done here. Nothing just because that doesn't stop people from disliking you? I'm not following you here. This isn't TORTURE. This is humiliation --- this is not torture. Let's stop mis-using terms here. Torture is what they do to women who get raped. Torture is what they do to people who don't agree with their particular views of Islam. And we will punish them. But screw apologies. It only makes the problems worse. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thebigjig Report post Posted May 7, 2004 Ah yes... lets embarrass them, THATs the answer to our problems! Because if KILLING them doesn't convince the insurgents we mean business... pictures of their soldiers in dog collars being sodomized by broom sticks will make them think twice! Jesus F'ing Christ... the crazy insurgents over there are driven by religion... they blow themselves up with a smile... trying to "embarrass" them isnt going to help matters Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted May 7, 2004 Yes, keep the irony in mind --- GERMANY is CRITICIZING people over treatment of criminals. OMGLOL That's so funny because The current German government is totally responsible for something that happened 50 years ago and obviously have no right to complain! BRILLIANT! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 7, 2004 Ah yes... lets embarrass them, THATs the answer to our problems! Because if KILLING them doesn't convince the insurgents we mean business... pictures of their soldiers in dog collars being sodomized by broom sticks will make them think twice! Better that than torturing them. I don't spend any time mourning the loss of the dignity of a bunch of thugs who we can't bomb back to the Stone Age --- BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL IN THE FRIGGIN' STONE AGE. Jesus F'ing Christ... the crazy insurgents over there are driven by religion... they blow themselves up with a smile... trying to "embarrass" them isnt going to help matters Then let's kill them all. Give them what they want. -=Mike ...BTW, there was that kid in Israel who wasn't smiling much when he was made to wear a bomb... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 7, 2004 Yes, keep the irony in mind --- GERMANY is CRITICIZING people over treatment of criminals. OMGLOL That's so funny because The current German government is totally responsible for something that happened 50 years ago and obviously have no right to complain! BRILLIANT! Hearing a German bemoan cruelty to prisoners is laughable. I'd love to see how they treat criminals in THEIR prisons. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted May 7, 2004 Yeah and I don't trust those Americans. They massacred the natives so they must be hankering to kill everyone else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 7, 2004 Yeah and I don't trust those Americans. They massacred the natives so they must be hankering to kill everyone else. Feel free to think that. We only kept W. Europe free, fed Afganistan, tried to prevent atrocities in SE Asia, liberated Kuwait, ended Khadaffy's support of terrorism, do more for AIDS in Africa than anybody... I'm sure others have a MUCH better track record. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted May 7, 2004 Yes and Germany has never done anything remotely good in it's history. We have to forever base our opinion on Germany on something that has no bearing on anything any more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 7, 2004 Yes and Germany has never done anything remotely good in it's history. We have to forever base our opinion on Germany on something that has no bearing on anything any more. Care to list their great accomplishments? -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted May 7, 2004 The point is not wether or not they've done anything amazingly heroic it's that it's stupid to judge them for something that most of them weren't even alive for and they don't even support. Should all Americans be judged for what they did to the natives? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 7, 2004 The point is not wether or not they've done anything amazingly heroic it's that it's stupid to judge them for something that most of them weren't even alive for and they don't even support. Should all Americans be judged for what they did to the natives? If you wish to, feel free. Just remember what's been done since. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted May 7, 2004 The point is not wether or not they've done anything amazingly heroic it's that it's stupid to judge them for something that most of them weren't even alive for and they don't even support. Should all Americans be judged for what they did to the natives? And Africans, and Philipinos, and Japanese,.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted May 7, 2004 Yes and Germany has never done anything remotely good in it's history. We have to forever base our opinion on Germany on something that has no bearing on anything any more. Care to list their great accomplishments? -=Mike The writings of Hermann Hesse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 7, 2004 The point is not wether or not they've done anything amazingly heroic it's that it's stupid to judge them for something that most of them weren't even alive for and they don't even support. Should all Americans be judged for what they did to the natives? And Africans, and Philipinos, and Japanese,.... Care to list what Americans have done to Africans --- save feed them and help them deal with AIDS? And the Japanese? Only gave them a stable democracy and helped them become economic superpowers. The Filipinos? Only helped them get a rather stable democracy. Yup, we're quite the bastards. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted May 7, 2004 The point is not wether or not they've done anything amazingly heroic it's that it's stupid to judge them for something that most of them weren't even alive for and they don't even support. Should all Americans be judged for what they did to the natives? And Africans, and Philipinos, and Japanese,.... Care to list what Americans have done to Africans --- um...the slave trade? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ripper 0 Report post Posted May 7, 2004 The point is not wether or not they've done anything amazingly heroic it's that it's stupid to judge them for something that most of them weren't even alive for and they don't even support. Should all Americans be judged for what they did to the natives? And Africans, and Philipinos, and Japanese,.... Care to list what Americans have done to Africans --- save feed them and help them deal with AIDS? And the Japanese? Only gave them a stable democracy and helped them become economic superpowers. The Filipinos? Only helped them get a rather stable democracy. Yup, we're quite the bastards. -=Mike You have got to be fucking kidding me. Okay, its one thing to try and support your point, but come on, even you can't believe that bullshit you just typed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted May 7, 2004 I bet he does. I love it. It's disgustingly funny. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted May 7, 2004 The point is not wether or not they've done anything amazingly heroic it's that it's stupid to judge them for something that most of them weren't even alive for and they don't even support. Should all Americans be judged for what they did to the natives? And Africans, and Philipinos, and Japanese,.... Care to list what Americans have done to Africans --- save feed them and help them deal with AIDS? And the Japanese? Only gave them a stable democracy and helped them become economic superpowers. The Filipinos? Only helped them get a rather stable democracy. Yup, we're quite the bastards. -=Mike Wow. Africans - Slavery. Japanese - Atomic bombs and internment camps Read up on you American-Philipenes history Mike. Alot more happened there than just the Thrilla in Manilla.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 7, 2004 The point is not wether or not they've done anything amazingly heroic it's that it's stupid to judge them for something that most of them weren't even alive for and they don't even support. Should all Americans be judged for what they did to the natives? And Africans, and Philipinos, and Japanese,.... Care to list what Americans have done to Africans --- um...the slave trade? Funny, we stopped that --- but Africans CONTINUE it. Isn't that bizarre? -=Mike ...Remember, the Baltimore Sun bought a few slaves back in the 1990's to give them their freedom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
