Guest hunger4unger Report post Posted May 11, 2004 Firstly, this wasn't a POW it was a civilian contractor held hostage by a terrorist group with claimed ties to Al Queda. Secondly, the group have said that they killed the hostage in retaliation to the torture of Iraqi prisoners. If US and UK troops could control their ignorant and ill-educated thoughts and didn't abuse Iraqi POW's then this murder wouldn't have happened. I realize that the murder was committed by the terrorist group and that they take full responsibility for the killing BUT, it wouldn't have happened if Iraqi prisoner abuse took place and hell..wouldn't have happened if Bush stayed put of Iraq. I feel very, very sad that this has happened and I am as upset as anyone else on this board but the reasoning and circumstances behind the murder has to be looked at. That is NOT to suggest that they had the "right" to kill the guy. Peace. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted May 11, 2004 Holy fucking hell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justsoyouknow 0 Report post Posted May 11, 2004 Secondly, the group have said that they killed the hostage in retaliation to the torture of Iraqi prisoners. Did they behead Daniel Pearl because we couldn't stay out of Afghanistan? Because we abused Afghani prisoners? No, they behead people because they're pieces of trash. The fact that you have the gall to even defend them for a second makes me disgusted to even consider you a human being. I don't post all that much in the Current Events folder, but in every single thread about Iraq, I'm guaranteed to read a post where you spew your terrorist-loving garbage. That one guy was right...you need to take a long look in the mirror. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheAustralian Report post Posted May 11, 2004 People were being beheaded in Iraq before the pictures of the prisoners were released and will be for a long time, If they hadnt killed this man for this reason (treatment of prisoners), it would of been for annother reason, What happened to the Iraqi prisoners was shocking, and hopefully the people that took part in the torture will be looked at, and there is no doubt these pictures didnt help. But there is no way you can tell me that this man wouldnt be dead anyway, if the pictures werent released. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest hunger4unger Report post Posted May 11, 2004 Woah..woah..I am not DEFENDING them. It is wrong. It has made me very, very angry. I am not saying it was justified, I am not saying it was right. I am putting forward the view this killing wouldn't have happened if coalition forces didn't torture prisoners and ultimately Bush didn't decide to invade Iraq. I am NOT anti-American OR pro-terrorist by any means - I am looking at the CAUSES of this awful, awful murder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest hunger4unger Report post Posted May 11, 2004 People were being beheaded in Iraq before the pictures of the prisoners were released and will be for a long time, If they hadnt killed this man for this reason (treatment of prisoners), it would of been for annother reason, What happened to the Iraqi prisoners was shocking, and hopefully the people that took part in the torture will be looked at, and there is no doubt these pictures didnt help. But there is no way you can tell me that this man wouldnt be dead anyway, if the pictures werent released. What about the hostages that they have released? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cerebus Report post Posted May 11, 2004 I am NOT anti-American OR pro-terrorist Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest hunger4unger Report post Posted May 11, 2004 I'm not..if Bush behaved properly I wouldn't be criticizing him. I like America and many things about the place. I despise terrorism - more than you will ever understand and that's for my own personal reasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheAustralian Report post Posted May 11, 2004 Im guessing your one of these people that believe Bin Laden when he said the reason for september 11 was "the infidels on the Holy Land", come on, people like this kill for the sake of killing, because they believe they have a right too, They then put forwarded a reason knowing that the uneducated left will jump up and down thus putting pressure on the Coalition forces to withdrawal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justsoyouknow 0 Report post Posted May 11, 2004 The cause of this murder is simple: that part of the world is full of barbarians. They talked about this on CNN today, and they had a reporter actually attempt to JUSTIFY this. It sincerely pissed me off, especially considering that my Government teacher is an idiot and was telling us that we brought this upon ourselves. The funny thing is that yesterday I brought up the Daniel Pearl thing in class, as we were discussing the POW pictures, and she had never heard of him or the story of his beheading. Seriously now, when do we get to the point when we say that enough is enough and just bomb the shit out of these countries? Would the world really be that much worse off without threats to our lives? They apparently need to slap a disclaimer on good deeds nowadays: don't try to help anyone out. Don't go to Iraq in an attempt to rebuild. Don't try to start up a company there in an attempt to stimulate their economy. If you try to pull them out of their substandard living conditions, they will kidnap you and behead you, adn then the fucking assholes on the internet that have way too much time on their hands will decide that it's "justified". Fuck this "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." In our own damn prison system, rape and abuse are an every day occurence. In every prison system in the world, rape and abuse are an every day occurence, for that matter. But suddenly, when this happens to Iraqi citizens, the world jumps all over us? They're in prison. They're not even citizens, so why should they have our rights extended to them? Did Iraqi citizens have rights under their old system of government? Who gives a fuck about people that are purposely going out and trying to take another human being's life? If you want to talk about "Eye for an eye", let's take this back farther. If these POWs hadn't been out there attempting to kill American soldiers, they wouldn't have been "tortured" in the first place. If you want to justify anything, they're the ones that brought the abuse upon themselves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest hunger4unger Report post Posted May 12, 2004 Im guessing your one of these people that believe Bin Laden when he said the reason for september 11 was "the infidels on the Holy Land", come on, people like this kill for the sake of killing, because they believe they have a right too, They then put forwarded a reason knowing that the uneducated left will jump up and down thus putting pressure on the Coalition forces to withdrawal. Nooo.....Bin Laden needs to be shot on sight. I know I might come across as apologizing for the terrorists here but honestly i'm not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest hunger4unger Report post Posted May 12, 2004 The cause of this murder is simple: that part of the world is full of barbarians. They talked about this on CNN today, and they had a reporter actually attempt to JUSTIFY this. It sincerely pissed me off, especially considering that my Government teacher is an idiot and was telling us that we brought this upon ourselves. The funny thing is that yesterday I brought up the Daniel Pearl thing in class, as we were discussing the POW pictures, and she had never heard of him or the story of his beheading. Seriously now, when do we get to the point when we say that enough is enough and just bomb the shit out of these countries? Would the world really be that much worse off without threats to our lives? They apparently need to slap a disclaimer on good deeds nowadays: don't try to help anyone out. Don't go to Iraq in an attempt to rebuild. Don't try to start up a company there in an attempt to stimulate their economy. If you try to pull them out of their substandard living conditions, they will kidnap you and behead you, adn then the fucking assholes on the internet that have way too much time on their hands will decide that it's "justified". Fuck this "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." In our own damn prison system, rape and abuse are an every day occurence. In every prison system in the world, rape and abuse are an every day occurence, for that matter. But suddenly, when this happens to Iraqi citizens, the world jumps all over us? They're in prison. They're not even citizens, so why should they have our rights extended to them? Did Iraqi citizens have rights under their old system of government? Who gives a fuck about people that are purposely going out and trying to take another human being's life? If you want to talk about "Eye for an eye", let's take this back farther. If these POWs hadn't been out there attempting to kill American soldiers, they wouldn't have been "tortured" in the first place. If you want to justify anything, they're the ones that brought the abuse upon themselves. I don't see how anyone can justify this. I think it was disgusting that they killed the guy, no matter what reason they gave. I am looking at the reason why THEY felt justified in doing it and WHY they did it. And sadly, it's because of some of our troops were sick bastards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheAustralian Report post Posted May 12, 2004 They talked about this on CNN today, and they had a reporter actually attempt to JUSTIFY this. I agree there is no way someone can justify this, Government teacher is an idiot and was telling us that we brought this upon ourselves. The funny thing is that yesterday I brought up the Daniel Pearl thing in class, as we were discussing the POW pictures, and she had never heard of him or the story of his beheading. Does that really suprise you, there is a reason teachers teach, they dont have the inteligence to do anything else. Wait a second. Im a teacher But suddenly, when this happens to Iraqi citizens, the world jumps all over us? They're in prison. They're not even citizens, so why should they have our rights extended to them? Dont agree with this, to win this war we need to win over the public, these pictures set that back, I also believe everyone deserves to be treated like a Human, atleast until trial, once it has been proven beyond a shodow of a doubt that these men killed or raped (or whatever), I dont care what happens to them, But the basis of our society is the "Rule of Law" and we must uphold it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkktookmybabyaway 0 Report post Posted May 12, 2004 Holy fucking hell. I concur. This is why I try not to take this folder too seriously. If I actually tried to examine thinking like this I'd probably end up in the loony bin... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted May 12, 2004 Holy fucking hell. I concur. This is why I try not to take this folder too seriously. If I actually tried to examine thinking like this I'd probably end up in the loony bin... I agree. I knew there was a reason that I didn't ever post in the CE folder or take it seriously, and just after a few minutes of reading a few posts, I found my reason. I am NOT anti-American OR pro-terrorist I haven't busted this out in a while, and this looks like as good a time as any. *ahem* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reign 0 Report post Posted May 12, 2004 Is anyone else just sick of this whole fucking mess...I don't think this is ever going to end and I keep changing my mind on what I think is right and wrong...yesterday I was pissed that we made fools of ourselves by showing those pictures,not because I don't think that those Iraqis deserved it,they probably did, but I was mad because I didn't want any of the "good" people of the Middle East to lose what ever hope they had left in the U.S. by seeing how we can conduct ourselves...but today I want to drop bomb after fucking bomb on these people..these Iraqi "citizens" are idiots..they'll follow anybody but a civilized leader. And al-Qaida, which anyone now can claim to be, are monsters...I mean they killed this poor man WEEKS AGO...looong before they ever released the pictures..they killed this guy just to kill another American....at this point I agree with an earlier post that says basicly Fuck 'em...I don't want to wait for another attack on U.S soil, Spanish soil, Chechen soil...FUCK THEM ALL...these peeple don't want progress or civilization...they just want to hate everybody and them selves...look back through history and you'll see the same pattern...and don't give me any bullshit about U.S. history either...at least for all our faults we've made wonderful contributions to the world...it's time to drop leaflets and pound those Godless fucks into glass Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 12, 2004 THIS is why the mistreatment scandal was a bad thing. Because it threatens Americans in POW camps. Zsasz --- they did the EXACT SAME THING TO DANIEL PEARL --- LONG before there was any "mistreatment" of prisoners. This is simply trying to excuse the inexcusable. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 12, 2004 Firstly, this wasn't a POW it was a civilian contractor held hostage by a terrorist group with claimed ties to Al Queda. Then I guess it's OK. Secondly, the group have said that they killed the hostage in retaliation to the torture of Iraqi prisoners. The group, of course, is lying. If US and UK troops could control their ignorant and ill-educated thoughts and didn't abuse Iraqi POW's then this murder wouldn't have happened. How does it smell, with your head buried so deep up your ass? I realize that the murder was committed by the terrorist group and that they take full responsibility for the killing BUT, it wouldn't have happened if Iraqi prisoner abuse took place and hell..wouldn't have happened if Bush stayed put of Iraq. Because it DIDN'T happen to Daniel Pearl. About 2 years ago. By groups with Al Qaeda ties. Nope, WE drove them to this. Hmm, using YOUR logic, then isn't the media to blame --- since they broadcast the pictures that pissed off the terrorists? I feel very, very sad that this has happened and I am as upset as anyone else on this board but the reasoning and circumstances behind the murder has to be looked at. That is NOT to suggest that they had the "right" to kill the guy. Peace. OK, a beheading CAN be explained away --- but humiliating prisoners CAN'T be? Got it. I don't see how anyone can justify this. I think it was disgusting that they killed the guy, no matter what reason they gave. I am looking at the reason why THEY felt justified in doing it and WHY they did it. And sadly, it's because of some of our troops were sick bastards. Our troops are sick bastards --- but they aren't. Cute. -=Mike ...Heck, we should thank them for teaching us a lesson, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest hunger4unger Report post Posted May 12, 2004 No Mike it's not ok that it wasnt a POW and that it was a contractor. I've stated as such. Just getting things clear. How are the group "lying" that they killed him in retaliation to the US torture or Iraqi's? That's their reasoning..right or wrong. They've let other hostages go free prior to this. The media are NOT to blame...they have a duty to report. The troops carrying out the torture are to blame more than the media. Ultimately, the group that carried out the killing are to blame. Yes, they are sick bastards...I want them dead for what they have done and only a minority or our troops are sick bastards...not all of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted May 12, 2004 These people are fucked up, revenge or not, this is the kinds of dumb shits that we're dealing with. These people are dogs, and I'm starting to not give a damn if we treat them as such or not. The type of people who have done this, they aren't human. I think Bin Laden should resign over this scandal. Forget bin Laden, this scandle goes all the way to the top. Down with Allah, he must resign now! yeah because that bastard's always telling them to kill people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 12, 2004 No Mike it's not ok that it wasnt a POW and that it was a contractor. I've stated as such. Just getting things clear. How are the group "lying" that they killed him in retaliation to the US torture or Iraqi's? That's their reasoning..right or wrong. They've let other hostages go free prior to this. Because al Qaeda has a track record of beheading prisoners and they're saying this to get the bed-wetting left to blame the troops, rather than focus any fury upon them. And, with you, it has worked marvelously. The media are NOT to blame...they have a duty to report. The troops carrying out the torture are to blame more than the media. Ultimately, the group that carried out the killing are to blame. This all happened six months ago. The press was aware of this in January. Why wait until now to make a stink? Yes, they are sick bastards...I want them dead for what they have done and only a minority or our troops are sick bastards...not all of them. Well, isn't that noble of you to say? -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest hunger4unger Report post Posted May 12, 2004 There's not a lot more I can add to this thread, i've made my points. We're just going to go back and forth and i'm tired and pretty drunk. Don't be so naive that it only happened six months ago - it has been happenning since we went in to Iraq and is no doubt still happenning today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 12, 2004 There's not a lot more I can add to this thread, i've made my points. We're just going to go back and forth and i'm tired and pretty drunk. Don't be so naive that it only happened six months ago - it has been happenning since we went in to Iraq and is no doubt still happenning today. Can you PROVE your claim that torture continues? CAN YOU? NO? Then shut the hell up about things you know nothing about. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted May 12, 2004 "For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage for some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib, and they refused," a hooded man standing behind the American says in Arabic. "Sorry, Mr. and Mrs. Berg, even though 9 out of 10 of our prisoners are innocent, our boys and gals at war need them to blow off some steam, if you know what I mean. Please accept this folded Amercian flag as a token of our support." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 12, 2004 "For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage for some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib, and they refused," a hooded man standing behind the American says in Arabic. "Sorry, Mr. and Mrs. Berg, even though 9 out of 10 of our prisoners are innocent, our boys and gals at war need them to blow off some steam, if you know what I mean. Please accept this folded Amercian flag as a token of our support." Oh give me a break. I'd expect this bilge out of hunger. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted May 12, 2004 "For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage for some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib, and they refused," a hooded man standing behind the American says in Arabic. "Sorry, Mr. and Mrs. Berg, even though 9 out of 10 of our prisoners are innocent, our boys and gals at war need them to blow off some steam, if you know what I mean. Please accept this folded Amercian flag as a token of our support." Oh give me a break. I'd expect this bilge out of hunger. -=Mike I'm a little upset that the actions of a group of American soldiers, whom we expect to be disciplined, led to a civilian's death. AND that the death could have been prevented. I guess that makes me "Anti-American" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Firestarter 0 Report post Posted May 12, 2004 the death could have been prevented Bloody hysterical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted May 12, 2004 After work, on the drive to class about an hour ago, I turned on M. Savage, who was yelling and screaming that this was all Hillary Clinton's and Ted Kennedy's fault. I didn't understand his logic, unless he was still on about how "liberals are aiding the terrorists." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Downhome 0 Report post Posted May 12, 2004 MrZsasz, I don't expect this out of you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted May 12, 2004 the death could have been prevented Bloody hysterical. Keep tellin' yourself that. Would he have died if we had gone into Iraq in the first place? A move, that I might add looks more and more inane on a daily basis? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
